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Melee Version Differences Master Compilation

Discussion in 'Melee Discussion' started by Varist, Apr 17, 2012.

  1. Varist

    Varist
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    Smash Lord

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    How to find out what copy of Melee you have: Look at the back of your game disk. Near the inner ring, there should be really small text. If it says

    DOL-GALE 0-00, you have NTSC 1.0.
    DOL-GALE 0-01,
    you have NTSC 1.1.
    DOL-GALE 0-02,
    you have NTSC 1.2.
    If your air doesn't taste like sweet freedom, you probably have PAL.

    [collapse="Bowser"]
    Properties:
    Weighs 117 (All NTSC)
    Weighs 118 (PAL)
    Abilities:
    Can use Flame Cancel (1.0, 1.1 NTSC)
    Moveset:
    Down Throw is dependent on enemy weight, and does not hit Jigglypuff or Game & Watch (All NTSC)
    Down Throw is independent of enemy weight, so it WILL hit Jigglypuff and Game & Watch (PAL)
    [/collapse]
    [collapse="Captain Falcon"]
    Properties:
    Weighs 104 (All NTSC & PAL)
    Abilities:
    Rapid Jab starts automatically after 3 A-button taps, unless canceled (All NTSC)
    Rapid Jab will only start after 4 A-button taps (PAL)
    Moveset:
    Weak Knee (the latter 2/3 of the animation) does 6% damage and has 35 base knockback (All NTSC)
    Weak Knee (the latter 2/3 of the animation) does 3% damage and has 30 base knockback (PAL)
    [/collapse]
    [collapse="Donkey Kong"]
    Properties:
    Weighs 114 (All NTSC & PAL)
    Abilities:
    Being hit during Up B causes DK to lose his Giant Punch charge (?All? NTSC)
    Being hit during Up B does not affect DK's Giant Punch charge (PAL)
    Moveset:
    [/collapse]
    [collapse="Dr. Mario"]
    Properties:
    Weighs 100 (All NTSC & PAL)
    Abilities:
    Moveset:
    [/collapse]
    [collapse="Falco"]
    Properties:
    Weighs 80 (All NTSC & PAL)
    Abilities:
    Moveset:
    Down Aerial spikes during all frames (All NTSC)
    Down Aerial weakly sends opponent up and away for the second half of the animation (PAL)
    Down Throw allows Fox to tech out (PAL)
    [/collapse]
    [collapse="Fox"]
    Properties:
    Weighs 75 (All NTSC)
    Weighs 73 (PAL)
    Abilities:
    Can tech out of Falco's Down Throw (PAL)
    Moveset:
    Down Smash does 15% damage (All NTSC)
    Down Smash does 13% damage (PAL)
    Up Smash does 18% damage (All NTSC)
    Up Smash does 17% damage (PAL)
    Up B does 14% damage (All NTSC)
    Up B does 12% damage, and travels a distance halfway between Falco's Up B and Fox's NTSC Up B (PAL)
    [/collapse]
    [collapse="Ganondorf"]
    Properties:
    Weighs 109 (All NTSC & PAL)
    Abilities:
    Moveset:
    Down Aerial does 22% (All NTSC)
    Down Aerial does 21% (PAL)
    Forward Aerial's Base Knockback is 60 (All NTSC)
    Forward Aerial's Base Knockback is 40 (PAL)
    Neutral Aerial hits frames 7-8, then 16-17 (1.0 NTSC)
    Neutral Aerial hits frames 7-8, then 20-21 (1.1, 1.2 NTSC & PAL)
    Up B has a throw speed dependent on the opponent's weight
    [/collapse]
    [collapse="Ice Climbers"]
    Properties:
    Weighs 88 (All NTSC & PAL)
    Abilities:
    Can use Freeze Glitch (1.0, 1.1 NTSC)
    Moveset:
    [/collapse]
    [collapse="Jigglypuff"]
    Properties:
    Weighs 60 (All NTSC & PAL)
    Abilities:
    Undamaged by Bowser's Down Throw (All NTSC)
    Moveset:
    [/collapse]
    [collapse="Kirby"]
    Properties:
    Weighs 70 (All NTSC)
    Weighs 74 (PAL)
    Run Speed is 1.4 (All NTSC)
    Run Speed is 1.5 (PAL)
    Abilities:
    Moveset:
    Dash attack does 8%, and has 66 Knockback Growth (All NTSC)
    Dash attack does 9%, and has 50 Knockback Growth (PAL)
    Forward Aerial's landing lag is 20 (10) frames (All NTSC)
    Forward Aerial's landing lag is 18 (9) frames (PAL)
    [/collapse]
    [collapse="Link"]
    Properties:
    Weighs 104 (All NTSC & PAL)
    Abilities:
    Can use Super Jump (1.0, 1.1 NTSC)
    ?Catching a boomerang cancels the grapple animation allowing an Up B (1.0, 1.1 NTSC)?
    Moveset:
    Up B has a lingering semi-spike (Trajectory: 0 degrees) (All NTSC)
    Up B sends at the same angle as a strong hit (Trajectory: scales up to 45 dependent on enemy %) (PAL)
    [/collapse]
    [collapse="Luigi"]
    Properties:
    Weighs 100 (All NTSC & PAL)
    Abilities:
    Moveset:
    [/collapse]
    [collapse="Mario"]
    Properties:
    Weighs 100 (All NTSC)
    Weighs 98 (PAL)
    Abilities:
    Moveset:
    [/collapse]
    [collapse="Marth"]
    Properties:
    Weighs 87 (All NTSC)
    Weighs 85 (PAL)
    Maximum Aerial Velocity 0.90 (All NTSC)
    Maximum Aerial Velocity 0.85 (PAL)
    Abilities:
    Moveset:
    Down Aerial functions as a spike (All NTSC)
    Down Aerial functions as a Meteor Smash (PAL)
    [/collapse]
    [collapse="Mewtwo"]
    Properties:
    Weighs 85 (All NTSC & PAL)
    Abilities:
    Can use Soul Breaker/Stunner (All NTSC & PAL)
    Can perform the Shadow Ball Glitch (1.0 NTSC)
    Moveset:
    [/collapse]
    [collapse="Mr. Game & Watch"]
    Properties:
    Weighs 60 (All NTSC & PAL)
    Abilities:
    Undamaged by Bowser's Down Throw (All NTSC)
    Moveset:
    [/collapse]
    [collapse="Ness"]
    Properties:
    Weighs 94 (All NTSC & PAL)
    Abilities:
    Down Smash can be charged while standing over a ledge (1.0 NTSC)
    Up Smash can be charged while standing over a ledge (1.0 NTSC)
    Moveset:
    [/collapse]
    [collapse="Peach"]
    Properties:
    Weighs 90 (All NTSC & PAL)
    Abilities:
    Can use Turnip Freeze (1.0, 1.1 NTSC)
    Moveset:
    [/collapse]
    [collapse="Pichu"]
    Properties:
    Weighs 55 (All NTSC & PAL)
    Abilities:
    Moveset:
    [/collapse]
    [collapse="Pikachu"]
    Properties:
    Weighs 80 (All NTSC & PAL)
    Abilities:
    Moveset:
    [/collapse]
    [collapse="Roy"]
    Properties:
    Weighs 85 (All NTSC & PAL)
    Abilities:
    Moveset:
    [/collapse]
    [collapse="Samus"]
    Properties:
    Weighs 110 (All NTSC & PAL)
    Abilities:
    Can use Extended Grapple Beam (All NTSC)
    Can bomb jump out of grapple beam (All NTSC)
    Moveset:
    [/collapse]
    [collapse="Sheik"]
    Properties:
    Weighs 90 (All NTSC & PAL)
    Abilities:
    Moveset:
    Up Smash tipper does 17% (All NTSC)
    Up Smash tipper does 16% (PAL)
    Up Aerial does 12%, and has 120 Knockback Growth (All NTSC)
    Up Aerial does 10%, and has 110 Knockback Growth (PAL)
    Down Throw allows immediate follow-up into most other moves (Trajectory: 80) (All NTSC)
    Down Throw only allows immediate follow-up into dash attack (Trajectory: 60) (PAL)
    [/collapse]
    [collapse="Yoshi"]
    Properties:
    Weighs 108 (All NTSC)
    Weighs 111 (PAL)
    Abilities:
    Moveset:
    Forward Smash does 16% (All NTSC)
    Forward Smash does 17% (PAL)
    Up Smash does 14% (All NTSC)
    Up Smash does 15% (PAL)
    Down Aerial (all hits) does 51% (All NTSC)
    Down Aerial (all hits) does 38% (PAL)
    [/collapse]
    [collapse="Young Link"]
    Properties:
    Weighs 85 (All NTSC & PAL)
    Abilities:
    Can use Super Jump (1.0, 1.1 NTSC)
    Moveset:[/collapse]
    [collapse="Zelda"]
    Properties:
    Weighs 90 (All NTSC & PAL)
    Abilities:
    Moveset:
    [/collapse]
    [collapse="Miscellaneous Changes"]
    Mechanics
    When holding B while the game starts, the player is asked for progressive scan (All NTSC)
    When holding B while the game starts, the player is asked for 60hz or 50hz (PAL)
    Special Videos are removed (PAL)
    Distances are measured in meters (PAL)
    Distances are converted to feet in English mode (All NTSC) However, the game still processes distances in meters, meaning the accuracy of the distance is only precise to the nearest .1 meter. Therefore, .1, .2 etc. feet is not recognized.
    If a hitbox stales below 1% damage (e.g. Samus Up B, Peach Up B, Zelda Forward Smash initial hits) hitlag is 0 frames, making SDI & Trajectory DI impossible (1.0, 1.1 NTSC)
    The name tag's on-screen position lags by one frame (All NTSC)
    The name tag temporarily disappears after death (PAL)
    The name tag input allows upper-case English, Japanese characters (Hiragana and Katakana), and some symbols (All NTSC)
    The name tag input allows some non-English letters, lower-case letters, and some symbols (PAL)
    The watermark behind character percent is more transparent in (PAL) than in (All NTSC)
    The stock icons above character percent are smaller and positioned slightly lower in (PAL) compared to (All NTSC)
    If time runs out during a Versus match, and each player has the same number of stocks, the game will be decided by a Sudden Death match with each player possessing the same number of stocks they had before the time ran out (1.0 NTSC)
    If time runs out during a Versus match, and each player has the same number of stocks, the game will be decided by a Sudden Death match with each player possessing 1 stock (1.1, 1.2 NTSC)
    Stages
    Rainbow Cruise (All NTSC) was renamed Rainbow Ride (PAL)
    The three Past Stages don't have "64" in their names in the stage select menu (All NTSC)
    The three Past Stages have "64" in their names in the stage select menu (PAL)
    Target Test
    The target icons in Target Test are smaller and positioned slightly lower in (PAL) compared to (All NTSC)
    Home-Run Contest
    The Home-Run Contest stage ends at 4556.6ft (1388.8m) in Feet Mode, and 1518.8m (4983.1ft) in Meters Mode (1.0 NTSC)
    The Home-Run Contest stage ends at 11347.2ft (3458.5m) in Feet Mode (1.1, 1.2 NTSC), and 3457.9m (11345.2ft) in Meters Mode (1.1, 1.2 NTSC & PAL)
    The Home-Run Contest stage lacks a Feet Mode (PAL)
    The Sandbag cannot be hit after landing on the Home-Run field (PAL)
    Multi-Man Melee
    Training
    The pause text's font is different between (PAL) and (All NTSC)
    The menu's "Total damage" display is on two separate lines (PAL)
    The menu has adaptive width (All NTSC)
    The menu is fixed (PAL)
    Event Matches
    Classic
    Adventure
    All-Star
    Trophies
    Daisy's trophy has a third eye in the back of its head (1.0 NTSC)
    Tamagon trophy is only available in Japan & hackable in All NTSC
    Items
    [/collapse]
     
    #1 Varist, Apr 17, 2012
    Last edited: May 24, 2015
    Yashichi likes this.
  2. ajp_anton

    ajp_anton
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    Smash Lord

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    I think it's better to have a list of features and which versions they apply to, instead of having to mention the same thing in 3 versions just because one is different.
     
  3. Wizzrobe

    Wizzrobe
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    Smash Champion

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    I just so happened to be wondering about the version differences today. So, good job with this.
     
    ikrager likes this.
  4. Dan Salvato

    Dan Salvato
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    IE

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    I agree with anton.

    Also, Link can not only superjump but cancel his zair with the boomerang catch, negating the special fall landing lag. Another difference to note is that 1.0 has much less hitlag, making Young Link's grounded upB difficult/impossible to escape at ANY percent.
     
    B.W. likes this.
  5. Varist

    Varist
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    Smash Lord

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    That would make the list shorter, but what I pictured was someone scrolling or Ctrl-F'ing to their character under a certain version, and being able to see what their character character was capable and incapable of doing.

    For the misc changes, I thought it would be nicer to be able to do the same thing. See what your version has, and what it doesn't have anymore/wasn't put in yet.

    also, can someone teach me how to spoiler collapse or whatever the Characters and Misc sections?

    definitely going to add this if we can quantify how much less hitlag there is

    To finish up the glitch section, anyone know if soul stunner works across all versions?
     
  6. ajp_anton

    ajp_anton
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    Smash Lord

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    They can still ctrl+F their character under each feature that mentions that character.

    That spoiler thing makes if even harder, because you don't want to know what your character does in the version you know, you want to know the difference between to the other versions, so you now need to expand all spoilers anyway.


    I know TONS of big and small differences, I might make a list as soon as you finish "Editing it as you're reading it". And maybe make the whole thing a little more readable, as it's quite horrible ATM IMO.
     
  7. Varist

    Varist
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    Smash Lord

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    i see what you mean now that I started doing the percent changes. i have to show pal's change right there anyway. Should it be done by character instead of version? With misc at the bottom? that seems even better right now actually.
     
  8. Strong Bad

    Strong Bad
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    Look! The East is Burning Red!

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    More specifically, if a move stales to have less than 1% damage (requires a 1% damage hitbox in the first place), it has either 0 or 1 frame of hitlag (I forget). Affects Peach Up-B, Samus Up-B, Zelda F-smash, etc. Also a feature in 1.01
     
  9. Varist

    Varist
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    Smash Lord

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    all right, i have the old format saved. i'm going to rebuild this from the ground up as, for example

    FOX
    [collapse]Up Smash does 69% (All NTSC)
    Up Smash does 42% (PAL)

    Down Smash does 20% (1.0 NTSC)
    Down Smash does 1000% (1.1, 1.2 NTSC)
    Down Smash does 15% (PAL)

    Firefox goes a million DK units of measurement (All NTSC)
    Firefox goes not far enough (PAL)
    [/collapse]

    how does that look?

    With a misc section at the bottom of all the characters listing general properties of the game in some order I haven't figured out yet



     
  10. Bones0

    Bones0
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    Original format is literally making me lol. You should leave it how it is, and AJP should make his own thread.
     
  11. ajp_anton

    ajp_anton
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    Smash Lord

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    Making a new thread would feel a little too disrespectful...
    But the layout definitely needs some work. A ton of hidden clickable boxes isn't a good idea. If you want them, you should have only a few of them containing more than just one line of data. Especially since each box, even when hidden, takes up so much space.
    All information should be easily accessible, not needing 10 seconds of scrolling, and if possible no clicking either.
     
  12. Varist

    Varist
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    Smash Lord

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    Given ajp's suggestion, does anyone know if there's a way to get the character titles on the same line as the collapse boxes?

    I feel like even though the bulky *** collapse boxes look bad, they keep the page from blowing up. we're dealing with 25 characters here. it's gonna be a long page.
     
  13. Strong Bad

    Strong Bad
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    26 characters, bro
     
  14. Varist

    Varist
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    Smash Lord

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    LOL OOPS TWENTY SIX SORRY SHEIK

    i hope the centered format doesn't look nasty.

    EVEN BETTER:

    what if you could make the actual names of the characters clickable, and they would reveal a box which up until that click had been completely invisible?

    then it could just be a short list of names aw yeah

    but that's too hard.

    ):
     
  15. standardtoaster

    standardtoaster
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    Tubacabra

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    Varist, you do [collapse="name"] to have a name on the collapse.
     
  16. Varist

    Varist
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    Smash Lord

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    thank you for saving my life standardtoaster

    now if only those black boxes could go away
     
  17. ajp_anton

    ajp_anton
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    Smash Lord

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    My suggestion would be to group them into Techniques, Glitches, Weight (or mass), Attack strength, Hitboxes, and maybe something else. This list of categories is much shorter than the 26 you have now for each character, and you'll instead have more information within each box.

    But I don't know how to make that perfect either. I tried it a little and it still felt weird somehow. Maybe I'll come up with something else later...
     
  18. Varist

    Varist
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    Smash Lord

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    I wanted to avoid doing that because that's how Mic's 2008 one looked and it's kinda nasty

    I want to keep it down to Characters and Misc, but figure out how to make those damn boxes go away with the collapse tag or get 2 boxes on one line. So it takes up half the space. I just don't like the post being so long even in a collapsed form
     
  19. ajp_anton

    ajp_anton
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    Smash Lord

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    That list looks horrible yes, but it's not because of the categories. It's written in a way that maximizes the difficulty of finding and reading the information.

    However I'm starting to like the character-based list more and more. Give me some time to decide which I actually like more and then I'll try to make a good design for it =).
     
  20. Varist

    Varist
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    Smash Lord

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    <3
    gotta spend tomorrow digging through that actual posts in that old thread looking for misc changes LOL

    stuff like "1.0's HRC limit was 45xx.x, 1.1+'s HRC limit was 11xxx.x"
    oh god.

    to everyone: if you happen to know some posts with chunks of pal changes and version changes already just link them and i'll peruse them
     
  21. ajp_anton

    ajp_anton
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    Smash Lord

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    As an old HRC player, that increase in distance in v1.1 is just the tip of the iceberg... =).

    I'll try to make a new list tomorrow night and include everything I know that you haven't already added.
     
  22. lordvaati

    lordvaati
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  23. Varist

    Varist
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    Smash Lord

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    you a beautiful man ajp

    I'll add that lord vaati.

    speaking of trophies, does anyone know if there are certain trophies you can only obtain in PAL or NTSC? Or actually, because Japan WOULD do this kind of thing, include some sort of bonus thing in the original Japanese copies of the game that english NTSC copies couldn't get?
     
  24. 100 proof%

    100 proof%
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    So they fixed the d-throw as bowser vs watch but not jigglypuff? Also like what are Your sources for this info? Just what people noticed or like something like the masterhand program?

    :phone:
     
  25. lordvaati

    lordvaati
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    I dunno about Pal, but yeah,Japan had at least 3 trophies that never came to the US: Mario on Yoshi, helmetless Samus, and this little dragon guy I forgot the name of.
     
  26. Varist

    Varist
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    Smash Lord

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    Everything up there now is stuff Mic confirmed in the past or stuff with videos explaining it. This list is in its infancy, there hasn't been any unconfirmed information put in yet, and when there's something I can't test / no one else in the thread has tested / doesn't have a video / whatever, just going to put it on the list with red text.

    Also, Smashboards should be ASHAMED of not having the damn SSB logo under its smileys. And no items either. And no HRC level! jeezus.

    you're mad sharp vaati, gonna go look those up and add them :D

    edit: just tested Bowser v puff and it isn't fixed in 1.2 (the version I have). That means it's still there for all of the NTSC versions. Anyone with PAL want to just pick Bowser and put in a CPU puff and try to dthrow it? Or is this common knowledge?
     
  27. 100 proof%

    100 proof%
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    Really if You want some more messed up watch stuff there's something with which ports do what when doc d-throws him(can be DIed so you don't go into tech chase like how fox can di falco's d-throw to tech)

    Could test the following throws. Samus's d-throw, marios d-throw, falco's(like fox), And yoshi's d-throw.

    Also if roy(based on knockback that hits like a falco shine) up-throws watch below a platform like PS You can tech or di off and live its really wierd.

    :phone:
     
  28. Varist

    Varist
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    Smash Lord

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    Ports don't really have anything to do with version differences though.

    I'm going to continue work on this tomorrow afternoon
     
  29. 100 proof%

    100 proof%
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    Just saying if there was change in bowser's throw on watch in pal, likly there are changes for others too. like if doc has a higher port watch is thrown normally.

    Sorry if I was confusing i'm like FM(radio) when everyone is trying to listen to AM

    :phone:
     
  30. stelzig

    stelzig
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    Man, you forgot one of the most well known differences. Ganon's fair!
     
  31. Varist

    Varist
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    Smash Lord

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    **** i skipped that whole section of mic's thing because i saw ganon and i went into my "i could not give less of a ****" mode

    adding it, gracias
     
  32. MikeHaggarTHAKJB

    MikeHaggarTHAKJB
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    This is fantastic. Great work!
    About the bowser downthrow: In NTSC, the length of the animation is based on the weight of the character he's throwing, like fox's uthrow. In PAL, it's set regardless of the weight off the character he's throwing, like falcon's uthrow. This is why the throw does not damage G&W, the hitbox won't come out in time.
    But you should still make that clear, since it changes other things aswell, such as time you have to tech chase etc.
     
  33. Strong Bad

    Strong Bad
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    Look! The East is Burning Red!

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    It doesn't damage Jigglypuff either, as she and G&W share the same weight (60) so the frame of Bowser's D-Throw that deals damage is skipped. If you wanted to include this, you'd also put on Bowser's spot "PAL: Down-throw animation length independent of enemy weight. NTSC: Down-Throw animation length dependent on enemy weight." or something to that effect, as well as the Jigglypuff/G&W not taking damage glitch in NTSC.

    I was actually expecting something like "This list is stupid, silly flopmericans are the only ones that use NTSC versions, PAL version is superior!"

    I'll list what I know that I didn't see in the OP.

    Captain Falcon: Weak knee does 3% damage (PAL) from 6% damage (NTSC), has 30 Base Knockback (PAL) from 35 (NTSC).

    Donkey Kong: Being hit during Up-B does not cause DK to lose his charge on Giant Punch, while it does in NTSC.

    Kirby: Running speed is 1.5 (PAL) from 1.4 (NTSC). Forward Aerial landing lag 18 frames from 20 (9 vs. 10 L-Canceled). As far as the dash attack goes, does 8 damage in NTSC, has 66 Knockback Growth, while has 9 damage/50 KBG in PAL. Damage factors into knockback calculation as well... they likely have similar knockback really although it'll be stronger at later %'s in NTSC.

    Ganondorf: In NTSC 1.00, Neutral Aerial hits frames 7-8 then 16-17, while in all later versions the second hit hits frames 20-21. Forward Aerial Base Knockback 40 (PAL) from 60 (NTSC)

    Link: Up-B lingering semi-spike (Trajectory: 0 degrees) edited to be the same angle as strong hit (Scales up to 45 depending on enemy %). Not 100% sure on this one, but I think catching a boomerang cancels your Grapple animation allowing you to Up-B in NTSC 1.00 and 1.01, or it might just be 1.00. Someone would have to check that one.

    Marth: Maximum Aerial Horizontal Velocity 0.85 (PAL) from 0.90 (NTSC).

    Peach: I think Up-B has slightly different controlability in aiming between NTSC and PAL. AJP can you confirm? I remember BTT being a bit different, or Armada stating that it feels different between versions.

    Sheik: Up-Aerial damage 10 (PAL) from 12 in NTSC, Knockback Growth 110 (PAL) from 120 (NTSC). For Down-Throw, the trajectory is 80 in NTSC and 60 in PAL.

    Global mechanic: In NTSC 1.00 and 1.01, if a hitbox stales below 1% damage (e.g. Samus Up-B, Peach Up-B, Zelda F-Smash initial hits), hitlag will be 0 frames, making SDI & Trajectory DI impossible.

    You might mention that whenever damage is increased, knockback is also increased (e.g. yoshi's smashes, fox's upsmash) and similarly for a decrease, as both KB values and the hitboxes damage value are used in the knockback calculation. Unless I've stated here, I don't think any actual KB values were changed, and any difference in knockback is due to the change in damage.
     
  34. Varist

    Varist
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    I'll try to get all that info in around 1:00 when I can access the computers at my high school, thanks mighty mike and strong bad
     
  35. VA

    VA
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    Isn't there a version difference concerning the abilitiy to DI moves that do 1 or >1%?

    I'm not sure whether this is why but Falcon's weak knee hitbox is quite noticably different between the versions. NTSC pops you up, PAL hits you them more out in front.
     
  36. Strong Bad

    Strong Bad
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    Look! The East is Burning Red!

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    On the DI thing: How I wrote it is correct.

    On knee: the trajectory of the hitbox is the same in all versions. any difference in behavior is due to the change in KB & Damage.
     
  37. VA

    VA
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    Ah yeah I didn't see you had, just checked OP durrr.

    Also about the knee thing, I would have said they were same if I hadn't have played both versions extensively and witnessed the difference. Are you sure the weak hit is exactly the same in both?

    (P.S. I'm getting this from Fuzzyness, should know better tbh... :p)
     
  38. Mahie

    Mahie
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    I thought weak knee to knee in PAL was almost impossible due to the change in the move. Could be incorrect.
     
  39. ajp_anton

    ajp_anton
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    VA: he already said they do different damage and knockback.

    About trophies: I think the only differences are:
    - Tamagon was removed in all non-japanese versions
    - Daisy has a 3rd eye in NTSC
     
  40. Strong Bad

    Strong Bad
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    That's likely dependent on DI and opponent and %; the lack of hitstun due to the KB change could make it impossible at times where it is in NTSC.
     

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