Melee to project M

[Monib]

Hey guys, I think I'm going to start going to more project m events and the likes, and I was wondering what the key differences are between luigi in melee and his project m counterpart.
Thank you in advance!

 

[Mario49]

In general I guess it's easier to wavedash and recover with PM Luigi. His misfire storage mechanic allow you to control when exactly you want to misfire. His fireballs are also really good so I suggest using those for stage control if you're not doing that already in melee.

 

[Monib]

In general I guess it's easier to wavedash and recover with PM Luigi. His misfire storage mechanic allow you to control when exactly you want to misfire. His fireballs are also really good so I suggest using those for stage control if you're not doing that already in melee.

Thanks! Are there any specific number tweaks / knockback tweaks that I should know about (i.e. to adjust combo-game) or is it more-or-less the same?

 

[Mario49]

Thanks! Are there any specific number tweaks / knockback tweaks that I should know about (i.e. to adjust combo-game) or is it more-or-less the same?

It's more or less the same I think, except Luigi's up smash covers a lot more so you can down throw into up smash at low percents. His up smash also covers his back so if your opponent is behind you while you're shielding, just up smash OOS

 

[Monib]

It's more or less the same I think, except Luigi's up smash covers a lot more so you can down throw into up smash at low percents. His up smash also covers his back so if your opponent is behind you while you're shielding, just up smash OOS

Holy **** that's legit. Alrightey thanks a bunch!

 

[MURP]

I'm just going to list all of the changes I know about.

• Down angled forward tilt now deals the same knockback as the other angles. The Melee coding error that caused it to deal no knockback was fixed. It also does a lot of shield damage for some reason.
• During the first frame of all three angles of forward tilt (frame 4), Luigi's hitbox sticks out significantly further than his hurtbox. Basically, his hitbox comes out before his leg, giving him great disjoint for the first frame.
• Down tilt is now a very strong (15 damage) jab reset with very little knockback. I don't think it has any real uses beyond being a jab reset. I believe it used to do 9 damage, have 10 base knockback and 80 knockback growth, and send at an 80 degree angle.
• Dash attack is now a slightly more usable move. It now has a hitbox on the seventh punch, each punch does 3 damage (if you somehow manage to connect all hits, it will actually do 21 damage, as silly as that sounds) instead of 2, the punches now link better, and the move has SDI and hitlag multipliers so that it's harder to SDI out of it.
• Up smash now has a body hitbox and better range on both sides (I think it uses the Brawl animation). It lasts 5 frames instead of the 3 it did in Melee.
• The IASA of forward air is frame 31, from 33 in Melee.
• Up air is now active for 5 frames (2 more at the end so it has better range behind him). It also hits at a 70 degree angle (from 55 in Melee).
• Back air is active for one more frame at the end of the move (frame 18). It also has IASA on frame 28, from 29 in Melee.
• Fireball now has 25 base knockback, from 5 in Melee. The IASA is 41, from 47(?) in Melee. Since Luigi is airborne for 44(?) frames during his short hop, he is able to short hop fireball waveland with a decent bit of leniency. I think it travels further and faster. It does 7 damage instead of 6.
• Down special in the air is the same as grounded down special. It doesn't have the foot hitbox and the first hit only does 8 damage instead of the 9 damage that aerial down special did in Melee. It no longer needs to be charged in order to use it to recover. Mashing is now easier. The ability to assign multiple buttons to special also makes good mashing more feasible. The first hit of the move also doesn't stale the second hit, so the damage output from the move is a bit higher than it was in Melee. The final hit of cyclone also lasts for 4 frames instead of 1.
• Luigi can move horizontally out of his up special much earlier. He also has much better air speed during this special fall than he did in Melee. I think he might also be the only character with two distinct special fall animations (one for his up special, the other for his air dodge).
• Misfire now functions like a Russian roulette. The probability that the next attempt will be a misfire increases as you get more non-misfires and then resets to 1/6 after you use one. If you don't get it after 5 attempts, it's guaranteed that the next one will be a misfire. When charging a missile, if it's going to misfire, Luigi flashes green. The misfire can be stored by pressing shield while Luigi is flashing green. When a misfire is stored, the next missile will be a misfire. You never have to misfire, as it can be stored repeatedly.
• Luigi's missile can sweetspot the ledge at the end of the move. This is the location of the ledge grab box relative to Luigi near the end of the move.
• Obviously Luigi has two more taunts. His side taunt can be held. Down taunt hits at a 281 degree angle (so it's a spike). It's hitbox is also bigger (and maybe lower?) so that it's better on the ledge.
• When grabbing an opponent during a wavedash, Luigi continues to slide while holding the opponent.
• Back throw now does 12 damage instead of 10.
• Luigi's shield is bigger, probably to compensate for the lack of light shielding.

There may also be some miscellaneous range buffs (for example, the website says his forward air and up air have range buffs) that I don't know about or other small changes (especially to things like hitlag, SDI multipliers, and hitbox positions).

Thanks! Are there any specific number tweaks / knockback tweaks that I should know about (i.e. to adjust combo-game) or is it more-or-less the same?

Luigi's up air is now an improved combo tool (especially good if your opponent misses the DI). It can lead into up special, misfire, or more up airs. Short hop fireball waveland gives Luigi a new tool in neutral against tall characters and characters that have a float/hover/whatever. The higher knockback on them also gives them higher hitstun, making them a decent approach tool if the fireball connects (fireball into grab is also quite good if the opponent is staying in shield). Down special is a much better combo tool now, and a great tool for tech chasing, though it's still not really safe. Overall, Luigi is very similar to his Melee incarnation with slightly better recovery, a more reliable misfire (for use in punishes and recovery), better fireballs for zoning, no more borderline useless moves, and very slightly better range, damage output, and frame data. You can play him almost exactly like you do in Melee without any real issues or you can take advantage of his new tools if you want.

 

[Monib]

Thanks a lot dude! Really appreciate the post!
Just a few questions if you don't mind.

The ability to assign multiple buttons to special also makes good mashing more feasible

Could you elaborate on this? I'm not sure I follow.

Down taunt hits at a 281 degree angle (so it's a spike).

So it can't be meteor cancelled?

Up air is now active for 5 frames (2 more at the end so it has better range behind him). It also hits at a 70 degree angle (from 55 in Melee).

So it can be used semi-like the captain falcon uair?

Misfire now functions like a Russian roulette. The probability that the next attempt will be a misfire increases as you get more non-misfires and then resets to 1/6 after you use one. If you don't get it after 5 attempts, it's guaranteed that the next one will be a misfire. When charging a missile, if it's going to misfire, Luigi flashes green. The misfire can be stored by pressing shield while Luigi is flashing green. When a misfire is stored, the next missile will be a misfire. You never have to misfire, as it can be stored repeatedly.

Will it do a regular missle if i store it (i.e. at the time i charged it) or will i start floating and be forced to downb or missle again?

Dash attack is now a slightly more usable move. It now has a hitbox on the seventh punch, each punch does 3 damage (if you somehow manage to connect all hits, it will actually do 21 damage, as silly as that sounds) instead of 2, the punches now link properly, and each punch has a hitbox on his hips.

Not really a question just more confused on wording. You say "somehow" but at the same time you say that they link properly (i.e. if the first/n-1th hit connects, it will continue to the nth hit with no ability to get out of it). So I guess my question is what do you mean by "if you somehow manage to connect all hits", it sort of contradicts with "links properly".

Thanks again though, this is a big help

 

[MURP]

Could you elaborate on this? I'm not sure I follow.

In Melee, you can't change your controls. The ability to do so was added in Brawl (and therefore in Project M). By changing other buttons to use your specials (e.g. many people change all of their dpad buttons to special instead of taunt), you can press multiple buttons on your controller, even using both of your hands to mash, therefore registering more inputs with less effort.

So it can't be meteor cancelled?

Correct.

So it can be used semi-like the captain falcon uair?

Semi-like that, I suppose. Though only to a very small extent, due to Luigi's much lower range, poor air speed, and slow fall speed. Luigi just can't move through the air fast enough to carry opponents across the stage like Captain Falcon can. I guess it's more of a vertical combo move while Falcon's is more horizontal.

Will it do a regular missle if i store it (i.e. at the time i charged it) or will i start floating and be forced to downb or missle again?

It will do a regular missile.

Not really a question just more confused on wording. You say "somehow" but at the same time you say that they link properly (i.e. if the first/n-1th hit connects, it will continue to the nth hit with no ability to get out of it). So I guess my question is what do you mean by "if you somehow manage to connect all hits", it sort of contradicts with "links properly".

That's fair. I suppose I exaggerated and should have said "links better". It generally links properly at lower percents, but it has some knockback scaling so it stops connecting at a certain point. It's also very punishable if it doesn't connect, so it generally goes unused, even if it is heavily improved from Melee. There are also more frames between each punch as the move goes on, so the first few connecting doesn't mean they all will. Fortunately the move is more difficult to SDI out of due to SDI and hitlag multipliers.

Minor correction: The hip hitbox was actually in Melee. I'll change my original list of changes to reflect that. I also forgot to mention that Luigi's missile can sweetspot the ledge. Mastery of that skill definitely helps his recovery.

 

[Monib]

Thanks again man, appreciate it!