Melee retirement age & How long will Melee be thriving competitively?

[kingPiano]

Was curious of others' opinions:


Question 1 (2 top responses) is about the scientific age limit on reaction based games. Many studies show that after the age of 25 your reaction time becomes compromised and slowly begins declining, so do other motor based functions as well as memory (this stuff starts from an earlier age but 25 seems to the eSports tipping point). These small losses I would imagine become multiplied at a high competitive level, but I do wonder if IQ, experience, and wisdom can make up for mental/physical deficits (and to what extreme). The question is mainly about if person of age could win a Melee national. Assume that no age limit means up to 40 or so as an extreme.

Would be cool to hear some of the veterans opinions and hear if they actually have noticed a difference. I'm just over 25 so the studies and numbers are a bit disparaging, the good thing is that I've always had a pretty fast base reaction time. So I think even in my mid thirties I will be faster than most younger kids. I do realize that so many years of playing Melee at a high level can take a toll on your hands as well.

Question 2 (4 bottom responses) is straightforward: How long will Melee be so dominant or do you think it will peak?
Of course I hope the answer is forever; the graphics are pretty timeless and have aged well, and the gameplay is so solid. I would only be satisfied if Nintendo in the future finally realize how awesome Melee was and develops a remake of it or an actual spiritual successor with more characters, better balance but the same competitive core.



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[Squire]

I don't think you can be too old, to a reasonable age. I'm not expecting senior citizens to do well. Reaction time may slow, but I have friends a few years older than I am (I'm 24) who can trash me. I think a reasonable amount of experience, creativity, and muscle memory makes up for a declining reaction time for the mostpart. It's not like at 26 your hands break off and you're useless. I know that isn't the point you were making, and I'm not trying to insult your intelligence, I'm just speaking in hyperbole to emphasize a point.

As for the game's survival? I'll be playing it for the foreseeable future, barring some melee-oriented traumatic accident, whatever that might be. But I think the game's time is limited. I'd give it 5-10. It's a great game, and the documentary brought in a lot of new blood, but I think it's a temporary galvanization. I think in five years, maybe less, the majority of new players will begin to move on and the game will spiral down from there. That's not to say new players are less interested than older players, they just don't have the history and therefore have less reason to stick around. I'm sure a few will, but mostly it'll go back to how it was in the late 00s and early 2010s where tournaments were very underground and had a much smaller turnout.

 

[Spak]

Was curious of others' opinions:


Question 1 (2 top responses) is about the scientific age limit on reaction based games. Many studies show that after the age of 25 your reaction time becomes compromised and slowly begins declining, so do other motor based functions as well as memory (this stuff starts from an earlier age but 25 seems to the eSports tipping point). These small losses I would imagine become multiplied at a high competitive level. The question is mainly about if person of age could win a Melee national.

M2K is 26 and just won Shots Fired, but I agree that there is a certain age that a person is beyond the point of being physically capable to play Melee. I also think that a majority of people will start having hand problems before their reaction time goes downhill because M2K has hand problems because of Melee and Hax's hand injury just got worse after he injured it.

Question 2 (4 bottom responses) is straightforward: How long will Melee be so dominant or do you think it will peak?
Of course I hope the answer is forever; the graphics are pretty timeless and have aged well, and the gameplay is so solid. I would only be satisfied if Nintendo in the future finally realize how awesome Melee was and develops a remake of it or an actual spiritual successor with more characters, better balance but the same competitive core.

I suspect that Melee will live on until 20XX is upon us, we figure everything out and the game ceases to be fun, or Smash Bros stops being made (as a series) and about 10 years pass. The first two are self-explanatory, but the third requires a bit more elaboration.

Every single new title to the Smash Bros series brings in new people to the scene. This is exemplified by the influx of Sm4sh players learning about Melee through joint streams (just look at the join dates of the users; lots of them are between late 2014-early 2015). There are always going to be players retiring (since people are always aging out or just getting bored and quitting), so if Nintendo stops making new Smash titles, we have a huge drop in players with interest in the game. Then, when we lose a good flow people with an interest in the game, we'll have more retiring smashers than joining ones and the community starts to die.

 

[Squire]

That's fair, but there's no guarantee new players will be drawn to Melee. A lot might think it's too old and that they're starting at a disadvantage to other players who may have been playing since release. It's a very hard game to learn and takes a while to pick up at a competitive level, so I wouldn't be surprised if a few years down the line new players look at it and say "That's cool but I'm not really into that. I'd rather play Sm4sh (or Smash 5, in the future), where we're all starting on the same foot."

This is speaking from experience because I was late to the Melee game. I first noticed it from a competitive standpoint when Brawl came out. A few friends wanted me to learn, but even then, in 2008, I felt I was too far behind. It wasn't until years later, when watching some youtube highlights my friends sent me, that I decided to pick it up. So I can understand the reservations on getting into the game.

Furthermore, I'd really like to believe there's no age limit for Melee. I didn't get into it until my early 20s and I'd like to think I'm in my prime and not my decline.

 

[steakhouse]

I don't think you can be too old for a game, but your age can definitely reduce your performance.

Melee will probably thrive (read : grow) for at least 10 years (League is still growing every day and came out in 2007 as a bellow-average free2play). Dunno what the future will bring though. What if Smash 5 is made by a nintendo-hired PMDT ? What if Melee 2 comes out on the Wii U ? What if the tournament norm becomes SD Remix (wishful thinking) ? Or will the floaty Smashes (Brawl, 4) become the norm and eventually take over, likely due to Nintendo's aggressive marketting that shoves my favoite game under the rug ? Too many factors are to be included to come to a complete conclusion.

 

[Spak]

What if Smash 5 is made by a nintendo-hired PMDT ?

Not going to happen as long as Sakurai is in charge (since he is against competitive play) and Nintendo is a company, so why would they model their game's mechanics after Melee if Sm4sh sold better?

What if Melee 2 comes out on the Wii U ?

Then there would be a split in the community and there would be two separate communities. The GC's Melee would probably have a scene that would die sooner unless the Wii U version is super unbalanced, but what I said about the previous scenario is still true.

What if the tournament norm becomes SD Remix (wishful thinking) ?

If SDR became tournament standard, I would be extremely disappointed in the community...

Or will the floaty Smashes (Brawl, 4) become the norm and eventually take over, likely due to Nintendo's aggressive marketting that shoves my favoite game under the rug ? Too many factors are to be included to come to a complete conclusion.

No because the Melee community has been existing with absolutely no support from Nintendo for the past 14 years and I don't see it stopping anytime soon unless scenarios 1 or 2 happen.

Still, none of these have the slightest likeliness of happening. Melee HD is the most I could hope for from Nintendo at this point and even then, GCs and mini-CRTs are the easiest setup to transport so I don't see what benefit that would give to the competitive community other than possibly online and a larger pool of player interest.

 

[steakhouse]

Not going to happen as long as Sakurai is in charge (since he is against competitive play) and Nintendo is a company, so why would they model their game's mechanics after Melee if Sm4sh sold better?

Then there would be a split in the community and there would be two separate communities. The GC's Melee would probably have a scene that would die sooner unless the Wii U version is super unbalanced, but what I said about the previous scenario is still true.

If SDR became tournament standard, I would be extremely disappointed in the community...

No because the Melee community has been existing with absolutely no support from Nintendo for the past 14 years and I don't see it stopping anytime soon unless scenarios 1 or 2 happen.

Still, none of these have the slightest likeliness of happening. Melee HD is the most I could hope for from Nintendo at this point and even then, GCs and mini-CRTs are the easiest setup to transport so I don't see what benefit that would give to the competitive community other than possibly online and a larger pool of player interest.

None of this is factual and you've got another thing coming if you think you know exactly what's gonna happen to the smash community 10 years from now.

That'd be like you guessing about the Nintendo smash invitational in 2004, the same year Game Over was held. And that's just one thing about 2014.

 

[Max?]

If the Melee Games succeeds and turns into a national circuit, Melee has the potential to live forever. Especially if it gets established as a legitimate club in certain schools. Huge potential, very exciting.

 

[Spak]

None of this is factual

A bit of it is, but a lot of it is speculation and none of the scenarios you gave are likely, anyways. There is always a chance of something happening, even if it's extremely unlikely. I would suspect that the PMDT wouldn't be recruited for 5mash because wherever there is a Nintendo sponsorship, PM is banned from the tournament. Nintendo hasn't actually acknowledged it as a part of the Smash series and like I said, why would Nintendo change their business practices for the Smash Bros series if they are working better than they did in Melee? Nintendo is above all else a company looking for a profit.

you've got another thing coming if you think you know exactly what's gonna happen to the smash community 10 years from now.

That'd be like you guessing about the Nintendo smash invitational in 2004, the same year Game Over was held. And that's just one thing about 2014.

This thread is all theoretical because the questions given have no real answers (any responses are meant to be speculation) and might not have a answers for a few decades (if we're lucky). Debating other people's points is fine as long as I have something valid to base my assumption off of and can use simple logic. I was making a response to your response because I thought your points were contradictory to Nintendo's past interests and business practices. Nothing is set in stone, so no need to get so huffy. If you have any counter-information as to why Nintendo would employ the PMDT for 5mash, I would be interested in hearing it.

 

[m0ll0y]

Most of us playing melee were able to start because we had the game disk and a gamecubes from when we were kids , so after regaining interest in the game , we could plug in our cubes that haven't been touched for years , and still know the basics of the game . Now i feel like were up to the last generations of kids that were born when melee came out , so i see about 7-8 more years left for melee .

I could be 100 percent wrong and see the game get another explosion of growth in 5 years(i hope) , but realistically speaking this what i feel is most probable case .

 

[Spak]

Most of us playing melee were able to start because we had the game disk and a gamecubes from when we were kids , so after regaining interest in the game , we could plug in our cubes that haven't been touched for years , and still know the basics of the game . Now i feel like were up to the last generations of kids that were born when melee came out , so i see about 7-8 more years left for melee .

I could be 100 percent wrong and see the game get another explosion of growth in 5 years(i hope) , but realistically speaking this what i feel is most probable case .

Valid point. I know plenty of people who just got Melee from online when they decided they wanted to get into the competitive scene, but looking at how much the price has skyrocketed in the past few years, I likely wouldn't pay more than $50 for a game that's 14 years old.

 

[Squire]

Now i feel like were up to the last generations of kids that were born when melee came out , so i see about 7-8 more years left for melee .

Agreed. It's the sad truth of the matter. The world moves on and the game has enjoyed surprising competitive success for the last 14 years. I'll keep playing it and looking for tournaments and fests for as long as they're held, and I'm sure others are of the same mind. If we're being realistic though, competitive games have an expiration date. I'd like to think the game will live on forever, but it's just not going to happen. I'd give it another decade, speaking optimistically. But what a glorious decade it will be.

 

[fatman667]

Every game eventually dies unfortunately, no matter how strong the community is or was at one point. If you don't believe that, then you're pretty arrogant tbh. *Here comes hate comments*

 

[Squire]

*Here comes hate comments*

Can't see why anyone would hate on this. You're just telling the truth. It's not something most die hard fans want to hear, but we all know it's true. Sucks though. We'd all like to be playing this game in a large competitive community forever.

 

[MCDMars]

Most of us playing melee were able to start because we had the game disk and a gamecubes from when we were kids , so after regaining interest in the game , we could plug in our cubes that haven't been touched for years , and still know the basics of the game . Now i feel like were up to the last generations of kids that were born when melee came out , so i see about 7-8 more years left for melee .

I could be 100 percent wrong and see the game get another explosion of growth in 5 years(i hope) , but realistically speaking this what i feel is most probable case .

I wouldn't put it past kids born after melee. I got beat by a kid younger than melee last tourney I was at, and while his friends weren't near as good as him I could see there was genuine passion for the game in them. I've got hope for the next generation of melee-heads

 

[Squire]

Doesn't change the fact that there are less of them and the game is becoming harder to find. If there was an HD remake, I'd say you're right.

 

[Massive]

Assuming they kept playing, the best players have only gotten better as they've gotten older. Based on that evidence there really isn't a "too old" for smash that we know of, especially if someone has put in the practice time.

Keep in mind that while teenager reflexes are nice to have, they are almost always bundled with inexperience and impatience, and frequently with low emotional stability.

 

[MCDMars]

On the topic of age

Other FGs have people older than our top smashers at top. Look at Justin Wong. He has no sign of slowing down and the dudes hitting 30 this year.

We also have Ken who's in the same age bracket kinda peeking into the scene again

 

[Kadano]

Every game eventually dies unfortunately, no matter how strong the community is or was at one point. If you don't believe that, then you're pretty arrogant tbh. *Here comes hate comments*

Oh, I see. How many years would you say has chess got before it dies? It’s at >500 right now.

 

[Squire]

How many years would you say has chess got before it dies?

You don't need a working copy of Chess on a disc, or a GameCube to play it.

Melee is no longer in production, and neither are GameCubes. Chess boards and pieces can be made out of paper if you're bored enough.

This is a bad comparison.

This is like saying Melee will thrive in a competitive community for as long as kids are playing tag.

 

[Doctor Pink]

Even if Melee dies, it'll rise from the dead. Noone who has ever witnessed a Multishine can go more than a few years without wanting to play Melee again.

 

[EddyBearr]

This niche market (platform fighters, even technical melee-inspired platform fighters) is currently being worked on by multiple small-scale game developers, with games such as Brawlhalla, Air Dash Online (RIP), and Rivals of Aether. Eventually, this niche consumer base will be appeased with something which will likely be expanded upon and advertised for recency, and all the people like myself (played mostly Melee when I was younger and utilized competitive tech skill, but didn't actually join the community until the last few years) will stop existing -- I think Melee is nearing a point where there won't be many new players who will choose Melee over whichever smash game they played more as a kid. CRTs are also a huge hassle.

More importantly, if a new developer of the smash series happens (so not Sakurai) and makes a game that is as fulfilling as Melee was, Melee will just move over to become more like 64 is today after some years.

I think Melee will no longer thrive in about a decade, and will be replaced by a new Platform Fighter.

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Reaction time and dexterity matter in Smash. 40 year olds will always be at a disadvantage, and they've got real lives to focus on with less incentive to play a game littered with people 17-25 years of age. Anyone can smash of course, but once you start getting old.. it starts not working as well. Maybe there'll be that one old guy who wobbles, but he's a rare exception to a would-be rule of being "too old" for Smash.

 

[Danny of AD 1]

my hand dexterity is so low even for an 18 year old that i would never be able to be decent at competitive melee i guess part of the problem stems from infancy and toddlerhood maybe that's why i can't use some of the top 13 effectively as for hand dexterity my hands were corrected when i was 3 to regain some thumb dexterity so yeah i would say with melee being as fast paced as it is the ability on my part to be decent at the game was hindered from an early age i would say i am not very good at melee despite being a veteran of the series and a no life gamer

 

[m0ll0y]

I wouldn't put it past kids born after melee. I got beat by a kid younger than melee last tourney I was at, and while his friends weren't near as good as him I could see there was genuine passion for the game in them. I've got hope for the next generation of melee-heads

I wouldn't put it past kids born after melee. I got beat by a kid younger than melee last tourney I was at, and while his friends weren't near as good as him I could see there was genuine passion for the game in them. I've got hope for the next generation of melee-heads

it's not only because people won't want to play it , but I can't imagine how hard it will be to find a melee copy , memory card, GameCube and CRT TV in 10 years from now

 

[Danny of AD 1]

also i turned 5 on october 6th, 2001 and did not get good at smash until i was 13

 

[Mr.C]

Question 1:

I'm nearly 30. I played in the golden age, was top in my respective state, and invented techniques that are widely used. My skill level today? I could pick up the game and compete at the highest level and do well in tournaments if I actually dedicated myself towards doing so. It was no different back then. If I practiced daily I did well, if I didn't practice my skill waned.

I do not believe people aging simply stall out or become worse at gaming. I think as people age the passion for being at a certain play level diminishes, so in return practice and dedication dwindle. Back in the day I wanted to be competitively top tier, now I simply do not care. That sentiments holds true for every game I play these days.

Question 2:

Melee will be played until Nintendo decides to finally quit releasing trash successors.

 

[Deleted member]

Question 1:

I would probably say 40 is the latest you should drop out because I doubt playing Melee competitively for that long can be very good on your fingers. I'm not saying that you should just drop the game completely but not play it as aggressively as the younger population.

Question 2:

There really is no telling, I doubt it will last forever but I don't think that it will die soon. I think it will die when Nintendo releases a Smash Bros game that can be easily picked up by Melee players and also played by casuals. So (hopefully) in the next 20 years or so.

P.S. I say hopefully not because I want Melee to die but I want another Smash Bros game to be as awesome as Melee was and isn't rejected by the Melee community.

 

[dreamhouse]

Question 1:

Daigo is pretty much the most dominant fighting game player ever, and he's 33 and still places first more than almost anyone else. He just got first at NCR like two weeks ago. And I honestly doubt he's going to slow down anytime soon when he's been this dominant for over a decade.

Secondly, as far as I know there have never been any studies that compared the reaction times of young people and old people who are competitive in reaction based hobbies. The difference in shape between young and old casual people is pretty drastic. The difference in shape between young and old athletes in sports that have some sort of strategic elements outside of purely track and field type stuff is pretty negligible. Young people might have ever so slightly faster reactions, but old people have more experience.

Look at boxing. Mayweather vs Pacquaio. 38 and 36 respectively. Not only is boxing a sport where reaction times are HUGELY important, they also have their aging bodies with muscles that don't heal as fast working against them, and yet the sport is STILL dominated by older fighters and always has been.

The real reason esports players retire so early is all social. Esports games just don't pay enough for most people to lead an adult life. It's very difficult to support a spouse and kids on esports money. Players retire when they're 25 because that's when their parents, and society, expect them to get a real job. That crap about reaction times is just an apocryphal story that got passed around because it sounds plausible.

Question 2:

I think melee could last practically indefinitely if we play our cards right. We're basically guaranteed another five years even if people start quitting in droves right now. Melee has something no other game has, we're decentralized.

What if we run out of CRTs, GameCubes, Controllers and Discs?

Ultimately, I think we're going to switch over to Dolphin and low lag gaming displays. It just makes more sense in the long run. Maybe not for tournaments, but at least for players. The lag from a good LCD is actually slightly better than the lag from bad CRTs, many of which are used at tournaments.

Ultimately I think controllers will be the one limiting factor, that's why if you see anybody breaking one you should beat their ass.

 

[YorKeY]

..............................

 

[GoodMorningWood]

i think its the question of whether or not people still want to play a competitive smash game. Melee is the go to, unless theres a future smash game that is somewhat like melee. Melee will totally out live smash 4 in my opinion

 

[Rayvalk]

1. If you keep healthy habits, have a Healthy diet, exercise regularly and play daily 30min of Melee everyday, you can still hold your top level skills until your 40, in my opinion. But then it comes how you want to live your life. You want to focus on your wife? On your family? You want to focus on your hobbies? Are there more important hobbies for you? I guess if you're really passionate about, you'll find a partner in your life who will gladly play by your side with whichever hobbie you have, as you would do for her/him. Because it doesn't matter if you must "grow up" and get serious on your job. We all have been on High School, College or on our full-time job and still have been playing Melee for a lot of years. So this is up to you.

2. I believe in a community that has survived for it's own for 14 years. Even now is bigger than ever. The TO around USA and Europe are working harder than they ever did. As long as they continue this way, there will be Melee for 10 years more for sure. Also, since ever, most of the players of the tournament (or atleast those who goes top64/top128 (depending on the size of the tournament), 80% of these players have been here for many years and I think and hope they are here to stay longer.

 

[Bones0]

You don't need a working copy of Chess on a disc, or a GameCube to play it.

Melee is no longer in production, and neither are GameCubes. Chess boards and pieces can be made out of paper if you're bored enough.

This is a bad comparison.

This is like saying Melee will thrive in a competitive community for as long as kids are playing tag.

You don't even need discs anymore with a modded Wii, and worst case scenario, it can be played on computers (which is only going to become easier with better technology). New tech is also likely to bring forth monitors that can play Melee laglessly (OLED). The biggest threat to the death of Melee has always been controllers. There was a scare back when they announced a stop in production, but then they started remaking them for the Wii U so there won't be a shortage of controllers for a VERY long time.

 

[GioGio]

I don't see competitive melee going anywhere anytime soon. I feel like new players are getting into the scene more and more as the competitive scene grows mainstream.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Considering competitive Zelda (the original one for NES) is still a thing..... yeah Melee isn't going anywhere.

 

[kingPiano]

Considering competitive Zelda (the original one for NES) is still a thing..... yeah Melee isn't going anywhere.

Yes it's obvious it won't go anywhere, but I was asking how long will it be thriving (as you know that is a big difference). SSB64 is still around as well as is Brawl but they are not thriving or extremely relevant.

I am curious to see how long Melee stays above each of the new iterations of Smash, and if Nintendo in the future gives us what we want.

 

[Squire]

You don't even need discs anymore with a modded Wii, and worst case scenario, it can be played on computers (which is only going to become easier with better technology). New tech is also likely to bring forth monitors that can play Melee laglessly (OLED). The biggest threat to the death of Melee has always been controllers. There was a scare back when they announced a stop in production, but then they started remaking them for the Wii U so there won't be a shortage of controllers for a VERY long time.

All fair points. A lot of it I didn't even consider when writing the post you quoted. Still though, my point was that comparing Melee to Chess in terms of survivability is a little silly. But yeah, you're right. I suppose it will very likely live a lot longer than my initial estimate with mods and advancements in technology.

 

[Bones0]

All fair points. A lot of it I didn't even consider when writing the post you quoted. Still though, my point was that comparing Melee to Chess in terms of survivability is a little silly. But yeah, you're right. I suppose it will very likely live a lot longer than my initial estimate with mods and advancements in technology.

Kadano compared it to chess because a lot of people seem to have this idea that no game can hold the general population's interest for more than a decade or two. While it's clear most people move on to newer games, Melee is obviously in a unique position as it is one of the few competitive games to survive a sequel release and maintain a LARGER population (Counter Strike is the only other I know of). It is definitely the only game to survive TWO sequels over the course of 13 years and still be more popular than BOTH of them.

 

[kingPiano]

Kadano compared it to chess because a lot of people seem to have this idea that no game can hold the general population's interest for more than a decade or two. While it's clear most people move on to newer games, Melee is obviously in a unique position as it is one of the few competitive games to survive a sequel release and maintain a LARGER population (Counter Strike is the only other I know of). It is definitely the only game to survive TWO sequels over the course of 13 years and still be more popular than BOTH of them.

Yes, however it's a direct result of Smash sequels intentionally being made less competitive and more casual. If Brawl or Sm4sh had the same core as Melee but just more characters without a doubt Melee would be on it's last breath right now. Something better could have been made and still can, but Nintendo wants to go in the shallow Mario Party direction with Smash.

I get the analogy and realize it's not to be taken tit for tat. I do think video games and board games exist in two radically different atmospheres, especially Chess a much more slow and cerebral (near ancient) game which has no sequels. Honestly the analogy or any justification shouldn't even be necessary. The same people that might seriously doubt Melee's current staying power are the same short-sighted types that actually thought Brawl would trounce Melee back when it emerged from the hellish depths of casual-land.

 

[Bones0]

Yes, however it's a direct result of Smash sequels intentionally being made less competitive and more casual. If Brawl or Sm4sh had the same core as Melee but just more characters without a doubt Melee would be on it's last breath right now. Something better could have been made and still can, but Nintendo wants to go in the shallow Mario Party direction with Smash.

I get the analogy and realize it's not to be taken tit for tat. I do think video games and board games exist in two radically different atmospheres, especially Chess a much more slow and cerebral (near ancient) game which has no sequels. Honestly the analogy or any justification shouldn't even be necessary. The same people that might seriously doubt Melee's current staying power are the same short-sighted types that actually thought Brawl would trounce Melee back when it emerged from the hellish depths of casual-land.

I mean, I agree that Nintendo's resistance to a proper Melee successor contributed to its lifespan. Their continuation of this trend with Smash 4 only encourages the point that Melee will be around forever because Nintendo won't (and probably couldn't if they tried) create a game of comparable caliber. Also, Brawl almost DID trounce Melee when it first came out, so I'm not sure how being surprised by Melee's growth makes someone short-sighted. If you went to the once-a-month, 15-man locals back in '08/'09, then you would know full well how close it came.

 

[kingPiano]

I mean, I agree that Nintendo's resistance to a proper Melee successor contributed to its lifespan. Their continuation of this trend with Smash 4 only encourages the point that Melee will be around forever because Nintendo won't (and probably couldn't if they tried) create a game of comparable caliber. Also, Brawl almost DID trounce Melee when it first came out, so I'm not sure how being surprised by Melee's growth makes someone short-sighted. If you went to the once-a-month, 15-man locals back in '08/'09, then you would know full well how close it came.

C'mon Bones.

When Brawl came out it was beating Melee only cause it was new but it didn't offer what Melee could. The people that thought that would continue/last and Melee would fade away were short-sighted, they were wrong. That's about as simple and straightforward as it gets, can't explain it in any simpler terms.