Red.Tide
Smash Cadet
I was curious about how long each character could stay in the air without landing.
This can be tracked by the "air time" metric on the victory screen. I tested with the following metrics:
General techniques:
I went through each character (except Miis, for now) trying different techniques, trying to take into account all recovery/stalling B moves (and the occasional arial move). Here are the results:
Infinite
Wario (with grounded bike)
Method: side-B back and forth
Notes: the game counts Wario as being in the air whenever he's on his bike. I added a second entry for him if you don't think that should count.
Samus
Method: Jump, double jump, down-B (forever)
Notes: check out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbkeNmKjnKo
Mega Man
Method: up-B, bounce, up-B, bounce, ...
Notes: When Mega Man bounces off Rush, he gets all his jumps (including up-B) back.
20s
Jigglypuff
Method: Jump, side-B, (double jump, side-B)*5, side-B until land
Notes: don't forget to angle all your side-Bs upwards
Pac-Man
Method: Down-B, jump, B (charge), (water hits), B (throw), double jump, side-B, up-B
Notes: one of the most interesting ones. I allowed the use of down-B on the ground in order to be standing on the hydrant, although technically he's in the air for a very brief amount of time. You time the initial jump so the water pushes you upwards. Charging B makes him float, and throwing B I think stalls him. After that, you do the up-angled side-B, and all three bounces on the up-B (plus the final stall) put him in the Jigglypuff tier.
18s
Peach
Method: Jump, float, double jump, up-B
Notes: I'm actually surprised that Jigglypuff is higher. She floats forever...
17s
Sonic
Method: Up-B, bounce, bounce, side-B, double jump, up-B, down-A
Notes: the only one on the list that doesn't use the initial jump. The reason this isn't infinite (like Mega Man) is that the spring can only be bounced off again if it's used when grounded. Sonic also can't use B moves after using his aerial spring; otherwise, down-B would replace down-A (either would be done just above the ground for the initial stall).
16s
R.O.B.
Method: Jump, double jump, up-B, down-A until land
Notes: This might be able to be improved. My impression of his up-B is that it provides thrust rather than making him jump, and thus there would be no reason not to use it all in one thrust.
Villager
Method: Jump, double jump, side-B, up-B
Notes: Dat up-B
15s
Duck Hunt
Method: B (hit 7 additional times), jump, double jump, up-B, B (can explodes), up-B
Notes: before jumping, you set up the can so one additional shot will make it explode. After the first up-B, you fall towards the can and hit it the final time (hard to time) so that it explodes on the duo just before they land.
14s
Wario (without grounded bike)
Method: Wait until Waft is charged, jump, double jump, down-B, side-B (jump), up-B
Notes: Even without counting grounded bike, Wario can still stay in the air an impressive amount of time. Surprisingly, Wario can only use his bike once until he lands/is hit, even if it has had plenty of time to fall off the stage and disappear.
13s
Luigi
Method: Jump, side-B, double jump, side-B, down-B, up-B
Notes: using down-B with the jump doesn't seem to make any difference. I didn't test whether misfires improve this time, because that's annoying.
Toon Link
Method: Down-B, jump, double jump, up-B, (bomb explodes), down-B, throw bomb down, (bomb explodes), up-B
Notes: another interesting one. The second bomb is just used to stall a tiny bit by exploding on the ground when TL is close enough to be hit by it. At sufficiently high percents, the grounded bomb explosion could hit TL far enough for him to pull out another and throw it down, allowing him to stay in the air for a very long time (ending when the explosion would kill him); however, I force everyone to start at 0%.
Corrin (with pin)
Method: Jump, double jump, down-B, side-B (wait, jump), up-B
Notes: The game counts Corrin as being in the air while she is using side-B to stay pinned in the ground. I added a second entry for her if you don't think that should count. The actual value may be slightly higher; it's hard to time how long Corrin can stay in the pinned position.
12s
Pikachu
Method: Jump, down-B, double jump, down-B, down-B, up-B
Notes: the final down-B seemed more useful than side-B, both of which have a lot of end lag. The up-B I used was NNW - NNE; I think this is better than N - NE or N - NW but I didn't test it.
Lucas
Method: Jump, double jump, down-B, up-B
Notes: the reason I didn't add more down-B stalling is so I could be as high as possible when starting the up-B, since Lucas stalls for a while after using PK thunder 1. I wasn't able to hit him directly up, so the actual value might be slightly higher.
11s
Link
Method: Down-B, jump, double jump, up-B, (bomb explodes), down-B, throw bomb down, (bomb explodes), up-B
Notes: same technique as Toon Link, but Link falls faster.
Pit
Method: Jump, double jumps, up-B
Notes: Pit can't get high enough to use his side-B and have the move end with him in the air.
King Dedede
Method: Jump, double jumps, up-B
Notes: the up-B should be canceled after he's done stalling at the peak of the leap.
Meta Knight
Method: Jump, double jumps, side-B
Notes: tested every B move; upward-angled side-B keeps him in the air the longest.
Dark Pit
Didn't bother testing; should be same as Pit
10s
Rosalina & Luma
Method: Jump, double jump, up-B
Notes: real floaty. Down-b doesn't help.
Kirby
Method: Jump, double jumps, down-B, up-B
Notes: yes, down-B actually helps, because of the stalling both when you start and end it. Obviously, cancel it as soon as possible. Surprised he's not higher; although it makes sense, as his up-B doesn't help him much. If I were to allow copy abilities, the most helpful would almost certainly be Shulk's; I got 19 seconds with Jump Monado Kirby.
Lucario
Method: Jump, double jump, down-B, up-B
Notes: obviously, he would go further if I allowed him to have aura. Down-B was more helpful than down-A.
Ness
Method: Jump, double jump, down-B, up-B
Notes: everything I said about Lucas applies to Ness.
Wii Fit Trainer
Method: Jump, double jump, side-B, up-B
Bayonetta
Method: Jump, side-B, up-B, double jump/up-B, double jump, down-B, B
Notes: surprisingly low for all of her options; she's a fast faller. Takes advantage of the fact that using double jump and then Witch Twist on the next frame gives her her double jump back. Down-B only stalls her in the air once, so I use neutral B after that.
9s
Yoshi
Method: Jump, double jump, up-B, up-B, up-B, side-B
Notes: I think side-B is more effective after the third egg toss.
Bowser Jr.
Method: Jump, double jump, side-B (jump), up-B
Notes: Mecha koopas have weak enough knockback at 0% that they don't give Jr. his up-B back, so I didn't bother with them.
Diddy Kong
Method: Jump, double jump, side-B, up-B
Notes: took maximum advantage of the stalling that up-B gives while it's charging.
Mr. Game & Watch
Method: Jump, double jump, up-B
Fox
Method: Jump, double jump, down-B, down-B, down-B, up-B
Notes: triple shine stall is more effective than using side-B.
Falco
Method: Jump, double jump, side-B, up-B
Notes: pretty poor showing for a bird who prefers the air. Not even top half.
Greninja
Method: Side-B (hold), jump, double jump, (side-B release), down-B, up-B
Notes: I think that charging the side-B before jumping is the best way to do this; I'm not sure, though.
Olimar
Method: (Throw Pikmin away), jump, double jump, up-B
Notes: seems mean to pluck Pikmin from the ground as the game starts, only to instantly throw them to their deaths.
Mewtwo
Method: Jump, double jump, side-B, up-B
Notes: would have expected Mewtwo to be higher than this, actually.
8s
Zelda
Method: Jump, double jump, B, up-B
Cloud
Method: Down-B (charge limit), jump, side-B (limit), double jump, up-B
Notes: I tried an alternate version where I charge limit almost all the way, jump, stall with side-B/neutral B, finish charging limit, and end with limit up-B, but limit side-B is actually more helpful. Additional stalling with side-B or B didn't make a difference to the 8s time.
7s
Mario
Method: Jump, side-B, double jump, side-B, side-B, up-B
Notes: the famous plumber can jump, but he sure can't stay in the air.
Bowser
Method: Jump, double jump, up-B
Notes: I believe that to acheive the optimal up-B height is to press it and wait a bit before mashing.
Donkey Kong
Method: Jump, double jump, side-B, up-B
Sheik
Method: Jump, double jump, side-B, up-B
Zero Suit Samus
Method: Jump, double jump, down-B, up-B
Notes: I think it's better to not activate the kick of down-B
Palutena
Method: Jump, double jump, up-B
Robin
Method: Jump, double jump, up-B
Charizard
Method: Jump, double jumps, up-B
Notes: Like Pit, Charizard can't get high enough to use side-B and then up-B before touching the ground. Down-B didn't make a difference to his time.
Shulk
Method: B (jump), jump, double jump, down-B, up-B (jump ends)
Notes: Jump Monado makes Shulk jump much higher, but also fall a bit faster. I timed it so the monado ends right after the up-B; I'm not sure that it makes a difference.
Dr. Mario
Method: Jump, double jump, down-B, up-B
Notes: doesn't matter if the down-B is used with the double jump or after.
6s
Marth
Method: Jump, double jump, down-B, up-B
Ike
Method: Jump, double jump, down-B, up-B
Lucina
Didn't bother testing; should be same as Marth
Ryu
Method: Jump, double jump, side-B, up-B
Corrin (no grounded pin)
Method: Jump, double jump, down-B, up-B
Notes: I probably wouldn't count Wario's grounded bike, but I would count Corrin's grounded pin.
5s
Little Mac
Method: Jump, double jump, up-B
Notes: I thought Little Mac would be flat-out worst; tied with three others for bottom is actually better than I expected. He would possibly be better with KO punch? You can't get that at 0%, though.
Ganondorf
Method: Jump, double jump, up-B
Captain Falcon
Method: Jump, double jump, up-B
Roy
Method: Jump, side-B, double jump, up-B
Notes: unlike Marth, Ike, Lucina, and Corrin, Roy falls too fast to use down-B after his double jump, so he has to resort to the inferior side-B for stalling instead.
-----
That's it! I'd be interested to hear if anyone thinks they could do better with any of the characters.
This can be tracked by the "air time" metric on the victory screen. I tested with the following metrics:
- Special smash (slow motion). This gives greater granularity to the air time numbers (which are reported to the nearest second). It also makes everything easier to do (particularly mashing).
- One-stock match on FD
- The character in question (P1) starts at 0%
- The character in question (P1) would leave the ground and try to stay in the air as long as possible before landing back on the ground.
- No taking advantage of walls/other platforms/ledges (characters like Ganon could probably stay in the air longer if they jumped from the edge, but I require everyone to start on the ground)
- No dipping below the stage at any time
- No using the opposing character in any way
- The character MAY damage themselves once they've left the ground
- After they land, P2 SDs.
- Now, "air time" for P1 is how long they were in the air for during that single attempt. The number is inflated since it's a slow motion smash.
General techniques:
- Since characters take time to reach their max falling speed, I found it was generally more helpful to wait until the character is falling before using the next recovery option (i.e. jump, wait, double jump is better than jump, no wait, double jump)
- An exception to the above is if a character needs to get sufficiently high in the air (i.e. Ike needs to get to his max jump + double jump height in order to use down-B and have time to use up-B before he lands)
- Another exception is if a character falls more slowly after their up-B, like Peach. In that case, you reach the max height possible.
- Some moves stall the character but then make them fall fast (Sonic's down-A, Ike and Kirby's up-B). They're still helpful, but should be used only immediately before landing.
I went through each character (except Miis, for now) trying different techniques, trying to take into account all recovery/stalling B moves (and the occasional arial move). Here are the results:
Infinite
Wario (with grounded bike)
Method: side-B back and forth
Notes: the game counts Wario as being in the air whenever he's on his bike. I added a second entry for him if you don't think that should count.
Samus
Method: Jump, double jump, down-B (forever)
Notes: check out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbkeNmKjnKo
Mega Man
Method: up-B, bounce, up-B, bounce, ...
Notes: When Mega Man bounces off Rush, he gets all his jumps (including up-B) back.
20s
Jigglypuff
Method: Jump, side-B, (double jump, side-B)*5, side-B until land
Notes: don't forget to angle all your side-Bs upwards
Pac-Man
Method: Down-B, jump, B (charge), (water hits), B (throw), double jump, side-B, up-B
Notes: one of the most interesting ones. I allowed the use of down-B on the ground in order to be standing on the hydrant, although technically he's in the air for a very brief amount of time. You time the initial jump so the water pushes you upwards. Charging B makes him float, and throwing B I think stalls him. After that, you do the up-angled side-B, and all three bounces on the up-B (plus the final stall) put him in the Jigglypuff tier.
18s
Peach
Method: Jump, float, double jump, up-B
Notes: I'm actually surprised that Jigglypuff is higher. She floats forever...
17s
Sonic
Method: Up-B, bounce, bounce, side-B, double jump, up-B, down-A
Notes: the only one on the list that doesn't use the initial jump. The reason this isn't infinite (like Mega Man) is that the spring can only be bounced off again if it's used when grounded. Sonic also can't use B moves after using his aerial spring; otherwise, down-B would replace down-A (either would be done just above the ground for the initial stall).
16s
R.O.B.
Method: Jump, double jump, up-B, down-A until land
Notes: This might be able to be improved. My impression of his up-B is that it provides thrust rather than making him jump, and thus there would be no reason not to use it all in one thrust.
Villager
Method: Jump, double jump, side-B, up-B
Notes: Dat up-B
15s
Duck Hunt
Method: B (hit 7 additional times), jump, double jump, up-B, B (can explodes), up-B
Notes: before jumping, you set up the can so one additional shot will make it explode. After the first up-B, you fall towards the can and hit it the final time (hard to time) so that it explodes on the duo just before they land.
14s
Wario (without grounded bike)
Method: Wait until Waft is charged, jump, double jump, down-B, side-B (jump), up-B
Notes: Even without counting grounded bike, Wario can still stay in the air an impressive amount of time. Surprisingly, Wario can only use his bike once until he lands/is hit, even if it has had plenty of time to fall off the stage and disappear.
13s
Luigi
Method: Jump, side-B, double jump, side-B, down-B, up-B
Notes: using down-B with the jump doesn't seem to make any difference. I didn't test whether misfires improve this time, because that's annoying.
Toon Link
Method: Down-B, jump, double jump, up-B, (bomb explodes), down-B, throw bomb down, (bomb explodes), up-B
Notes: another interesting one. The second bomb is just used to stall a tiny bit by exploding on the ground when TL is close enough to be hit by it. At sufficiently high percents, the grounded bomb explosion could hit TL far enough for him to pull out another and throw it down, allowing him to stay in the air for a very long time (ending when the explosion would kill him); however, I force everyone to start at 0%.
Corrin (with pin)
Method: Jump, double jump, down-B, side-B (wait, jump), up-B
Notes: The game counts Corrin as being in the air while she is using side-B to stay pinned in the ground. I added a second entry for her if you don't think that should count. The actual value may be slightly higher; it's hard to time how long Corrin can stay in the pinned position.
12s
Pikachu
Method: Jump, down-B, double jump, down-B, down-B, up-B
Notes: the final down-B seemed more useful than side-B, both of which have a lot of end lag. The up-B I used was NNW - NNE; I think this is better than N - NE or N - NW but I didn't test it.
Lucas
Method: Jump, double jump, down-B, up-B
Notes: the reason I didn't add more down-B stalling is so I could be as high as possible when starting the up-B, since Lucas stalls for a while after using PK thunder 1. I wasn't able to hit him directly up, so the actual value might be slightly higher.
11s
Link
Method: Down-B, jump, double jump, up-B, (bomb explodes), down-B, throw bomb down, (bomb explodes), up-B
Notes: same technique as Toon Link, but Link falls faster.
Pit
Method: Jump, double jumps, up-B
Notes: Pit can't get high enough to use his side-B and have the move end with him in the air.
King Dedede
Method: Jump, double jumps, up-B
Notes: the up-B should be canceled after he's done stalling at the peak of the leap.
Meta Knight
Method: Jump, double jumps, side-B
Notes: tested every B move; upward-angled side-B keeps him in the air the longest.
Dark Pit
Didn't bother testing; should be same as Pit
10s
Rosalina & Luma
Method: Jump, double jump, up-B
Notes: real floaty. Down-b doesn't help.
Kirby
Method: Jump, double jumps, down-B, up-B
Notes: yes, down-B actually helps, because of the stalling both when you start and end it. Obviously, cancel it as soon as possible. Surprised he's not higher; although it makes sense, as his up-B doesn't help him much. If I were to allow copy abilities, the most helpful would almost certainly be Shulk's; I got 19 seconds with Jump Monado Kirby.
Lucario
Method: Jump, double jump, down-B, up-B
Notes: obviously, he would go further if I allowed him to have aura. Down-B was more helpful than down-A.
Ness
Method: Jump, double jump, down-B, up-B
Notes: everything I said about Lucas applies to Ness.
Wii Fit Trainer
Method: Jump, double jump, side-B, up-B
Bayonetta
Method: Jump, side-B, up-B, double jump/up-B, double jump, down-B, B
Notes: surprisingly low for all of her options; she's a fast faller. Takes advantage of the fact that using double jump and then Witch Twist on the next frame gives her her double jump back. Down-B only stalls her in the air once, so I use neutral B after that.
9s
Yoshi
Method: Jump, double jump, up-B, up-B, up-B, side-B
Notes: I think side-B is more effective after the third egg toss.
Bowser Jr.
Method: Jump, double jump, side-B (jump), up-B
Notes: Mecha koopas have weak enough knockback at 0% that they don't give Jr. his up-B back, so I didn't bother with them.
Diddy Kong
Method: Jump, double jump, side-B, up-B
Notes: took maximum advantage of the stalling that up-B gives while it's charging.
Mr. Game & Watch
Method: Jump, double jump, up-B
Fox
Method: Jump, double jump, down-B, down-B, down-B, up-B
Notes: triple shine stall is more effective than using side-B.
Falco
Method: Jump, double jump, side-B, up-B
Notes: pretty poor showing for a bird who prefers the air. Not even top half.
Greninja
Method: Side-B (hold), jump, double jump, (side-B release), down-B, up-B
Notes: I think that charging the side-B before jumping is the best way to do this; I'm not sure, though.
Olimar
Method: (Throw Pikmin away), jump, double jump, up-B
Notes: seems mean to pluck Pikmin from the ground as the game starts, only to instantly throw them to their deaths.
Mewtwo
Method: Jump, double jump, side-B, up-B
Notes: would have expected Mewtwo to be higher than this, actually.
8s
Zelda
Method: Jump, double jump, B, up-B
Cloud
Method: Down-B (charge limit), jump, side-B (limit), double jump, up-B
Notes: I tried an alternate version where I charge limit almost all the way, jump, stall with side-B/neutral B, finish charging limit, and end with limit up-B, but limit side-B is actually more helpful. Additional stalling with side-B or B didn't make a difference to the 8s time.
7s
Mario
Method: Jump, side-B, double jump, side-B, side-B, up-B
Notes: the famous plumber can jump, but he sure can't stay in the air.
Bowser
Method: Jump, double jump, up-B
Notes: I believe that to acheive the optimal up-B height is to press it and wait a bit before mashing.
Donkey Kong
Method: Jump, double jump, side-B, up-B
Sheik
Method: Jump, double jump, side-B, up-B
Zero Suit Samus
Method: Jump, double jump, down-B, up-B
Notes: I think it's better to not activate the kick of down-B
Palutena
Method: Jump, double jump, up-B
Robin
Method: Jump, double jump, up-B
Charizard
Method: Jump, double jumps, up-B
Notes: Like Pit, Charizard can't get high enough to use side-B and then up-B before touching the ground. Down-B didn't make a difference to his time.
Shulk
Method: B (jump), jump, double jump, down-B, up-B (jump ends)
Notes: Jump Monado makes Shulk jump much higher, but also fall a bit faster. I timed it so the monado ends right after the up-B; I'm not sure that it makes a difference.
Dr. Mario
Method: Jump, double jump, down-B, up-B
Notes: doesn't matter if the down-B is used with the double jump or after.
6s
Marth
Method: Jump, double jump, down-B, up-B
Ike
Method: Jump, double jump, down-B, up-B
Lucina
Didn't bother testing; should be same as Marth
Ryu
Method: Jump, double jump, side-B, up-B
Corrin (no grounded pin)
Method: Jump, double jump, down-B, up-B
Notes: I probably wouldn't count Wario's grounded bike, but I would count Corrin's grounded pin.
5s
Little Mac
Method: Jump, double jump, up-B
Notes: I thought Little Mac would be flat-out worst; tied with three others for bottom is actually better than I expected. He would possibly be better with KO punch? You can't get that at 0%, though.
Ganondorf
Method: Jump, double jump, up-B
Captain Falcon
Method: Jump, double jump, up-B
Roy
Method: Jump, side-B, double jump, up-B
Notes: unlike Marth, Ike, Lucina, and Corrin, Roy falls too fast to use down-B after his double jump, so he has to resort to the inferior side-B for stalling instead.
-----
That's it! I'd be interested to hear if anyone thinks they could do better with any of the characters.
Last edited:
