AthleticNerd93
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2013
- Messages
- 67
What is a list of links good and bad matchups
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Matchups
- Thread starter AthleticNerd93
- Start date
JesteRace
Smash Journeyman
His best matchups imo are DK and Peach.
His good matchups are Bowser, Zard, Ganon, Squirtle, G&W, Mewtwo, etc.
His bad matchups are Mario, Wario, Wolf, Fox, Falcon, etc.
His worst matchups imo are Falco and Sheik.
The rest for the most part feel pretty even to me.
His good matchups are Bowser, Zard, Ganon, Squirtle, G&W, Mewtwo, etc.
His bad matchups are Mario, Wario, Wolf, Fox, Falcon, etc.
His worst matchups imo are Falco and Sheik.
The rest for the most part feel pretty even to me.
frankxthexbunny
Smash Apprentice
I'd argue his ganon matchup is not so great. What do you think about link v luigi, and more importantly link v tlink
JesteRace
Smash Journeyman
Unless you let Ganon take you to a small stage, he's gonna have a hard time getting in. We combo him just as hard as he combos us, and oh yeah, we have a chaingrab on him from like 70% til death. Link vs Luigi is tricky. I think it's either even or slightly in Luigi's favor. Luigi's biggest weaknesses are projectiles and disjoints. Link is Projectiles and Disjoints: The Character. However, Luigi also has burst movement and combos the frick out of Link. Now, Link obviously can't combo Luigi nearly as hard, but he can juggle him cause Luigi can't beat uair. So, it's a constant battle of spacing out sword attacks and keeping projectiles out to stuff his approach. I don't think Toon Link is as good as everyone says, but he probably has a slight edge on Link just because of his speed. But Link also outranges Toon Link so it's really not bad at all.
frankxthexbunny
Smash Apprentice
Ganon has a chain grab on us from 0 to 70, which is honestly near kill percent. Between the cape, a Wizard Foot going through boomerang (and subsequently smacking you in the face with through your long-ass animation), and really easy edgeguards on him, I'd say it's at the very minimum even. His approach option's are way better on Link than they had ever been before, and once he gets in the neutral can be pretty leaned to ganon's favor. I don't have loads to say about link v luigi except the fact that as long as link consistently wins neutral he'll be fine, but if luigi gets in once (and due to his really gnarly wavedash he will) he can wreck havoc in ways very difficult to deal with.
Finally Link Tlink is a matchup I don't know at all, I just get the feeling like link's projectile game is a bit better than Toon link's, but Tlink's ability to deal with projectiles is really strong so it comes down to sword play where Link overall loses assuming the tlink knows how to bait properly. Also, once again: the combos.
Finally Link Tlink is a matchup I don't know at all, I just get the feeling like link's projectile game is a bit better than Toon link's, but Tlink's ability to deal with projectiles is really strong so it comes down to sword play where Link overall loses assuming the tlink knows how to bait properly. Also, once again: the combos.
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JesteRace
Smash Journeyman
I have never seen a Ganondorf actually chaingrab from 0-70%. I mean, I know it's possible, but it's no more reliable than our chaingrab on him that again, goes to kill percent. Wizard's Foot isn't super scary because Ganondorf mains know it's pretty telegraphed and unsafe if it doesn't hit, so they don't use it often. And on a non-small stage, the entirety of our projectile game and our zair makes it very hard for him to get in. And we have combos and edgeguards on him too, so that's kinda moot. And yeah, that sums up Luigi. Win neutral or get f***ed. Oh, and we can chaingrab Tink too.
Beorn
Smash Journeyman
On the subject of toonlink. They both do some really gross stuff to each other. Toonlink on the other hand has a much better neutral than Link does, mostly due to his speed and much better projectiles. I don't know how you could think that Link wins the projectile game... His boomerang is larger, has double the angles that it can be thrown, does more damage, better shield stun, comes out on the same frame, and goes much further. Link has a hand hitbubble after the range is already out, shorter range (which is a + and -) and a slightly longer sweetspot. His bombs are better in nearly every way, while also having more mobility. Arrows have actual uses besides edge guarding. There really is no contest.
In this matchup, it mostly all comes down to range and defense.
frankxthexbunny
Smash Apprentice
why does everyone consider link's bow so trivial? I find it really useful. And I like his boomerang better because it's faster and returns faster, therefore giving you more uses per capita and more pressure.
JesteRace
Smash Journeyman
I think Tink's bombs are better for sure. Both bows and rangs have advantages and disadvantages over the other. I also prefer Link's, but that should be obvious since we're not in the Tink forums lol
And Link's zair is definitely way better than Tink's, so neither really "wins" neutral. IMO, it simply comes down to Link's range versus Tink's speed.
And Link's zair is definitely way better than Tink's, so neither really "wins" neutral. IMO, it simply comes down to Link's range versus Tink's speed.
frankxthexbunny
Smash Apprentice
Yeah Link's bomb's aren't as good as tlinks at all, but they do their job.
frankxthexbunny
Smash Apprentice
Going to double post because I'm not sure if notifications would occur if I just edited my previous post. What are your thoughts about swordsman vs link? I actually think that theyre in link's favor. Projectiles really influence marth's spacing, and I find them particularly easy to kill/edgeguard. With that said the way he (marth mostly but this applies to roy as well) combos link can sometimes be really frustrating. Overall though most marths even ones who do super well against my alternates tend to get really frustrated with any sort of zoning and are incapable of playing the patient game that they want to. Same thing with roy, but the reverse, they want to pressure really hard but have a difficult time approaching properly due to their inflexible (though not slow) movement options. Both of them have their pace moved to link's in general, which gives him a natural advantage. I have no clue about Ike however whenever I fight him the same problem occurs, his QD gets interrupted by rang and bow (and if you're feeling dangerous a clutch zair) and he gets juggled without having a lot of ways to get to the ground properly after he gets grabbed. God I wish link's upsmash wasn't so destroyed.
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JesteRace
Smash Journeyman
Yeah, Link beats FE characters. Not super hard, but the neutral favors Link. None of them have particularly great shield pressure, so Link actually has OOS options. Getting in isn't easy for them because lolthrowstuff and at mid-range, I'm pretty sure zair outranges anything they can do.
frankxthexbunny
Smash Apprentice
I'd call myself a link sonic dual main, i think it's a good combination because sonic doesn't like swords too much and link doesn't like spacies too much, it's a good synergy
JesteRace
Smash Journeyman
I dual main Luigi for the same reason. I bust him out for Falco, Sheik, Wario, and to avoid the Link ditto. Falcon is still rough though.
frankxthexbunny
Smash Apprentice
I think I hate the link ditto as much as you do, but to be honest I think sonic is awful against link. I have a mario that i use exclusively for link mains and nothing else.
JesteRace
Smash Journeyman
Yeah, Sonic really can't do much against disjoints. Mario is a good CP. That's another matchup I might just go Luigi against. I don't get it. He doesn't seem that fast. His fireball doesn't seem that great. His recovery is okay. But he just seems to get in so easy and his combos and edgeguards on Link are FREE.
frankxthexbunny
Smash Apprentice
I've been practicing hard, and my sonic when played in the bait/punish style can sort of fight marth the way falcon fights marth, but overall my matches are all relying on the marth not knowing my character too well.
but this is a link thread so I'll stop talking about that. Maybe I should start a thread about who link mains alt and why
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Thor
Smash Champion
I think Link loses slightly to Marth [especially with grab changes actually mattering], but only if Marth is willing to just tech chase you forever... Link's options for escaping a tech chase are pretty bad [jab is frame 6 on body, frame 7 in front, and spotdodge is highly baitable], and Marth can edgeguard Link rather well. I may also be biased, since I've played quite good Marths.
Ganon is possibly a bad MU on small stages, but we win on large stages for sure, and I think it's evenish or slightly Link favored on medium stages.
Falco is easier than Fox at a top level hands-down, because Fox's waveshine is dumber than anything Falco has [also powershielding]. Sheik is kinda bad but I don't know how bad really [we don't have any Links who can punish a Sheik like SAUS does in Melee, and I think upping the punish game on Sheik is a key to moving that MU closer to even]. Falco is a hard MU regardless.
Unless you are spamming zair, vs a good DK is very hard because his combo game is stupid [and if he has a giant punch, we die at 60 from a grab regardless of DI as far as I have figured out... I know it true combos and I think he can always sweetspot it]. MU is probably Link favor because of zair being so hard for DK to deal with, but this MU is NOT free vs a good DK.
Ganon is possibly a bad MU on small stages, but we win on large stages for sure, and I think it's evenish or slightly Link favored on medium stages.
Falco is easier than Fox at a top level hands-down, because Fox's waveshine is dumber than anything Falco has [also powershielding]. Sheik is kinda bad but I don't know how bad really [we don't have any Links who can punish a Sheik like SAUS does in Melee, and I think upping the punish game on Sheik is a key to moving that MU closer to even]. Falco is a hard MU regardless.
Zair and nair go through fireballs... somewhat important part of the MU. Also he can CG Link.
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JesteRace
Smash Journeyman
Best matchups don't mean free matchups. Link doesn't have any free matchups (although the more I see it, G&W could be). Yes DK can mess us up if he gets in, but on even a medium stage, getting in is no easy task. And on all the small stages besides GHZ (which you should ban), there are multiple platforms that can break up his combos. Good DK's know all this and their options around it, but that doesn't change the fact that Link wins neutral very solidly. You may be right about Falco/Fox, but I just don't get it, personally. In my scene, I can handle Fox just fine, but if they go Falco, I have to go Weegee to take the set. Sheik I need to play more with 3.6 slightly nerfing Sheik's throws and Link being able to chaingrab her a bit. Right now, I still hate it, but it could be doable.
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AthleticNerd93
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2013
- Messages
- 67
AthleticNerd93
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2013
- Messages
- 67
Whats the chaingrab?
Capt. NeckBeard
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2015
- Messages
- 17
How does one deal with DK, he seems to absolutely destroy Link once he gets a grab, how do we counter him?
JesteRace
Smash Journeyman
Don't get grabbed, mate. That's really it. DK does indeed combo us hard off of grabs, but he struggles to get in and get that grab. Ban GHZ and SV. Take him to large stages with high platforms like DS/DL/BC. Battlefield is good too if those aren't available. Someone else might have more nuanced advice for you, but in my experience, I just throw stuff and rain bombs and the DK can't do much about it.
's Perspective (+3 has Link winning)
JesteRace
Smash Journeyman
Pit is pretty bad, and Link probably wins, but +3 seems excessive. I haven't played a Pit since early 3.5 though, so I can't say for sure.
Ripple has put Dedede as going even with Link, and I'm inclined to take that opinion over the community MU chart, although again, I have no substantial recent experience with the character to say for myself.
Other than those, the only really strong disagreements I have are with Diddy and Lucario being -3. The majority of Link mains are in agreement with both of those characters being no worse than -1, some even saying he goes even with Diddy and is +1 against Lucario(I, personally, would say -1 Diddy and even for Lucario).
As for Squirtle and Wolf, those are two of my most played matchups(both being top players in my state, Camtwo and Plasmius, respectively). I put Link at +1 against Squirtle (good punishes on his combo weight, bombs/disjoints/upb oos all make Squirtle's usual neutral harder, the chaingrab is brutal, but Squirtle can put on some crazy pressure that's hard to break if he gets in, which keeps it from being -2 or worse) and I'd say -2 against Wolf (lasers, pressure, edgeguards, all the spacie BS we know and... love?)
My minor disagreements that I'm confident in are that Bowser should be +2, Luigi should be +1-2, Ice Climbers and Ike should be +1, and Ivysaur should be even,
Ripple has put Dedede as going even with Link, and I'm inclined to take that opinion over the community MU chart, although again, I have no substantial recent experience with the character to say for myself.
Other than those, the only really strong disagreements I have are with Diddy and Lucario being -3. The majority of Link mains are in agreement with both of those characters being no worse than -1, some even saying he goes even with Diddy and is +1 against Lucario(I, personally, would say -1 Diddy and even for Lucario).
As for Squirtle and Wolf, those are two of my most played matchups(both being top players in my state, Camtwo and Plasmius, respectively). I put Link at +1 against Squirtle (good punishes on his combo weight, bombs/disjoints/upb oos all make Squirtle's usual neutral harder, the chaingrab is brutal, but Squirtle can put on some crazy pressure that's hard to break if he gets in, which keeps it from being -2 or worse) and I'd say -2 against Wolf (lasers, pressure, edgeguards, all the spacie BS we know and... love?)
My minor disagreements that I'm confident in are that Bowser should be +2, Luigi should be +1-2, Ice Climbers and Ike should be +1, and Ivysaur should be even,
Capt. NeckBeard
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2015
- Messages
- 17
How does the Link/Snake matchup go, and how does Link edge gaurd snake? Can our zair reach him if he tries to up-b to ledge?
Thor
Smash Champion
Dthrow CG from 0 to 66 (goes to 67 if you can pivot grab), dthrow dair being guaranteed and KOing around 70 (pre-dair, need the 22% hitbox), having tools to zone a kind of slow character. His stuff on shield is really annoying and ASDI down doesn't work well vs GnW, but if you true CC his fair you can usually get a grab, up+b, or dsmash. We can also edge guard him with z-drop bombs pretty well (you can also go for the crazy dair or ftilt, but I think he can sweet spot around ftilt and the dair is risky and sometimes techable). When he is offstage, pull a bomb, z-drop just offstage when he has to up+b, and double jump back and pull another bomb. If he misses the tech then zdrop the new bomb and fair or dair him if he gets hit by the bomb. If he techs, z drop another bomb. IDK if we can actually keep resetting the zdrop bombs, and how he techs matters, but this situation is still favorable and can often lead to a stock, while others have less good tools to edge guard him.
Mechaglacier
Smash Apprentice
Is anyone willing to teach me the link-mew2 MU