DKwill
Smash Lord
- Joined
- May 23, 2008
- Messages
- 1,232
- Location
- Planking the ledge 185 times over.
- 3DS FC
- 3497-1934-6087
DK vs. G&W matchup Q/A with Will and Attila:
A: So Firefly is asking for DK vs. G&W tips, any brief ones?
W: He's asking you? Or on the boards?
A: Asking me, since I played a bunch. My tips came down to b-air a ton, watch out for key, and don't challenge offstage.
W: Yeah, G&W is actually super scary on the edge.
2nd best character in that situation next to MK, actually.
Yet you should always go for that free damage when you notice they are committing to
the edge.
A: You mean with spaced up-B?
W: It's very similar to the Marth matchup in that sense.
Nope.
A: Then what do you mean by free damage?
W: I mean when they are going straight for the edge when they have no double jump left, and it’s obvious they will go for
the edge snap. You should run off, quarter circle edge snap to the edge, and force them above you = free ledge drop DJ
up air. Every time. You could probably n-air too if you want to mix it up or keep up air fresh.
I actually do challenge G&W offstage, because DK's b-air is still scary, you just have to wait out his f-air, or bait it first.
But NEVER put yourself in a position where he is directly above you offstage, or below you.
You can only really stay safe at a horizontal spacing next to him.
A: If he's low I really don't bother. I don't trust my techs from getting banged off the stage by up B.
W: Never challenge that lol.
I meant off stage.
Like near the blast zone type off stage
A: So challenge only horizontally.
W: Mhm. D-air will never work.
Funny enough, when G&W uses JC up-b out of shield when you are trying to bait a shield grab
and head butt him for it. His parachute sends both of you up, and DK's side b still connects xD
A: I assumed that much, haha. Also, he's asking if u-air is a good move to have fresh against him.
W: For the most part, it's going to be realllly tough to connect an up-air.
A: Because of key.
W: But using that edge guard method... it could guarantee you the kill.
Yeah, key is too good.
For the most part, up air will be close to killing at that point anyway, when you get that edge guard up air.
You can actually bait the key by empty short hopping, and then fast falling away from it.
The best way to beat key is to bait it with said empty short hop, into land and pivot grab.
Works pretty well.
A: Can't it hit on the sides though?
W: Up smash also beats it when timed properly, but LOL at that.
Yes, but when baited properly, you will be running away from it
and pivot grabbing his landing.
A: Yeah, I guess.
W: Key is not usually safe on shield either.
If you wait for both hits, the aerial and grounded hits-
You can shield grab it.
DK's shield sucks though lol.
A: Yeah, I hate n-air vs. DK.
W: Also, always keep a fully charged punch vs. G&W.
It out spaces everything he has, and super armors anything he can throw at you in terms of an aerial approach
Walking is the most important spacing tool in the matchup.
Walking away, most notably.
Walk away d-tilt, and f-tilts wall him.
Also, there might be a better way to punish it, but when G&W’s b-air is hitting my shield with every hit, I usually shield
the whole thing, then spot dodge that last pesky hit.
Then while G&W is on the retreat out of his b-air, it’s easy to catch him with a d-tilt.
You can prob just grab him before the last hit too lol.
Or right after if you wait for it.
JC up-b out of shield might be an option after the first 4-5 hits.
Before that last hit comes out, perhaps DK can super armor it? Hmm...
A: Landing is another of his concerns.
W: Jab to d-tilt is reallly good. And tipper jab -> grab -> back throw is where I generate the most percent.
Also, always pummel once before throwing unless they are super good at mashing. (When you mash DK’s pummels as
opposed to timing them, they do not stale, and do approximately 3% each = broken).
Hmm, yeah landing is tough.
Pretend it’s MK, and go to the edge.
Platforms are a BIG no no bc you will get n-aired 100% of the time.
Don't try to land on one ever lol.
If they are keeping you in the air with up-air wind hitboxes, don't air dodge, that’s a bait.
Use the increased aerial time to charge your punch.
Or you can mix it up- I believe you can aerial head butt, and since it’s a special it will send you up further.
A: Never woulda thought of that in my two matches against GnW. XD
W: Oh, needless to say, watch the hell out for up smash.
Early kill for days.
As in, don't ever land with air dodge next to G&W charging up smash.
Not worth it lol.
A: Nair?
W: It’s good to land behind him (facing forward) with an air dodge if he is shielding though...
Yes, n-air as well, but only if you are landing behind him (and hitting with the front of n-air).
N-air is not so safe when landing in front of G&W.
I would stick to reverse charge cancel b-air in that situation.
If you ever catch a G&W trying to shield grab you though, aerial head butt while falling is a godsend lol.
G&W dies sooo early off the top.
So d-smash will probably kill.
A: Oh! Getting back on stage, especially after 100%.
W: Hmm…
That’s pretty tough, you have to really mix it up, and can't be too obvious by going straight to the edge.
It may actually benefit you to recover high more often than not.
Bc G&W players like to drop zone f-air to beat our up-b. Or hit on top of it with d-air.
Again, I would reverse charge cancel, wait to see if he f-airs early, then b-air your way to safety.
Also- if he f-airs, since it’s slow as hell, you can just jump over him lol.
A: I guess hopefully they don't read the high recovery and **** your face with up smash.
W: Yeah in terms of high recovery, look for platforms.
And try to lagless land with up-b.
A: Nair is better than up smash, too, even if you can't lagless.
W: That way the worst you'll be hit by is a n-air.
A: Oh ummm…
What if you're already on the ledge?
W: If G&W is blatantly charging an up smash, looking for an air dodge read
you can d-air him.
It beats it.
Bc it will hit him before he actually lets go of the up smash lol.
If you are already on the ledge, ledge stall with up-b.
But be sure to drift back a bit, kinda like that spacing I told you about vs MK
BUT the optimal thing to do is to up-b ledge snap a few times as fast as possible, and bait G&W to try a dash attack
stage spike.
Anticipating this, your next up-b should drift slightly away from the edge, so this time when you regrab the edge, you
can get on stage safely.
Bc G&W's dash attack is pretty slow.
I have actually punished his dash attack stage spike attempts with DK up air.
You just have to make sure you wait for all of its lingering hitboxes first.
Also, if for any reason G&W commits to running at the ledge, you should be able to roll on stage from the edge lol
But use that sparingly, obviously.
If the G&W is smart and knows the matchup, he will spam d-tilt when you are at the edge.
That **** is annoying @_@
Especially on Yoshi's Island, since the edge is slanted downward.
But they'll never let us fight there ^_-
A: You should seriously just write barebones guides on each character on swf. You don't see half of this stuff there.
Lmao.
W: I would, but I feel like nobody would read it or care
That’s why in the few times I do post
I write essays bc I am super inspired about something lol.
A: I can't believe you think that. XD
Hopefully I'll have more of these that I find randomly via my Facebook PM's in the near future. The other matchup I have a lot of experience in is DK vs Olimar... but I've since switched to using Marth in that matchup due to sheer frustration =P
A: So Firefly is asking for DK vs. G&W tips, any brief ones?
W: He's asking you? Or on the boards?
A: Asking me, since I played a bunch. My tips came down to b-air a ton, watch out for key, and don't challenge offstage.
W: Yeah, G&W is actually super scary on the edge.
2nd best character in that situation next to MK, actually.
Yet you should always go for that free damage when you notice they are committing to
the edge.
A: You mean with spaced up-B?
W: It's very similar to the Marth matchup in that sense.
Nope.
A: Then what do you mean by free damage?
W: I mean when they are going straight for the edge when they have no double jump left, and it’s obvious they will go for
the edge snap. You should run off, quarter circle edge snap to the edge, and force them above you = free ledge drop DJ
up air. Every time. You could probably n-air too if you want to mix it up or keep up air fresh.
I actually do challenge G&W offstage, because DK's b-air is still scary, you just have to wait out his f-air, or bait it first.
But NEVER put yourself in a position where he is directly above you offstage, or below you.
You can only really stay safe at a horizontal spacing next to him.
A: If he's low I really don't bother. I don't trust my techs from getting banged off the stage by up B.
W: Never challenge that lol.
I meant off stage.
Like near the blast zone type off stage
A: So challenge only horizontally.
W: Mhm. D-air will never work.
Funny enough, when G&W uses JC up-b out of shield when you are trying to bait a shield grab
and head butt him for it. His parachute sends both of you up, and DK's side b still connects xD
A: I assumed that much, haha. Also, he's asking if u-air is a good move to have fresh against him.
W: For the most part, it's going to be realllly tough to connect an up-air.
A: Because of key.
W: But using that edge guard method... it could guarantee you the kill.
Yeah, key is too good.
For the most part, up air will be close to killing at that point anyway, when you get that edge guard up air.
You can actually bait the key by empty short hopping, and then fast falling away from it.
The best way to beat key is to bait it with said empty short hop, into land and pivot grab.
Works pretty well.
A: Can't it hit on the sides though?
W: Up smash also beats it when timed properly, but LOL at that.
Yes, but when baited properly, you will be running away from it
and pivot grabbing his landing.
A: Yeah, I guess.
W: Key is not usually safe on shield either.
If you wait for both hits, the aerial and grounded hits-
You can shield grab it.
DK's shield sucks though lol.
A: Yeah, I hate n-air vs. DK.
W: Also, always keep a fully charged punch vs. G&W.
It out spaces everything he has, and super armors anything he can throw at you in terms of an aerial approach
Walking is the most important spacing tool in the matchup.
Walking away, most notably.
Walk away d-tilt, and f-tilts wall him.
Also, there might be a better way to punish it, but when G&W’s b-air is hitting my shield with every hit, I usually shield
the whole thing, then spot dodge that last pesky hit.
Then while G&W is on the retreat out of his b-air, it’s easy to catch him with a d-tilt.
You can prob just grab him before the last hit too lol.
Or right after if you wait for it.
JC up-b out of shield might be an option after the first 4-5 hits.
Before that last hit comes out, perhaps DK can super armor it? Hmm...
A: Landing is another of his concerns.
W: Jab to d-tilt is reallly good. And tipper jab -> grab -> back throw is where I generate the most percent.
Also, always pummel once before throwing unless they are super good at mashing. (When you mash DK’s pummels as
opposed to timing them, they do not stale, and do approximately 3% each = broken).
Hmm, yeah landing is tough.
Pretend it’s MK, and go to the edge.
Platforms are a BIG no no bc you will get n-aired 100% of the time.
Don't try to land on one ever lol.
If they are keeping you in the air with up-air wind hitboxes, don't air dodge, that’s a bait.
Use the increased aerial time to charge your punch.
Or you can mix it up- I believe you can aerial head butt, and since it’s a special it will send you up further.
A: Never woulda thought of that in my two matches against GnW. XD
W: Oh, needless to say, watch the hell out for up smash.
Early kill for days.
As in, don't ever land with air dodge next to G&W charging up smash.
Not worth it lol.
A: Nair?
W: It’s good to land behind him (facing forward) with an air dodge if he is shielding though...
Yes, n-air as well, but only if you are landing behind him (and hitting with the front of n-air).
N-air is not so safe when landing in front of G&W.
I would stick to reverse charge cancel b-air in that situation.
If you ever catch a G&W trying to shield grab you though, aerial head butt while falling is a godsend lol.
G&W dies sooo early off the top.
So d-smash will probably kill.
A: Oh! Getting back on stage, especially after 100%.
W: Hmm…
That’s pretty tough, you have to really mix it up, and can't be too obvious by going straight to the edge.
It may actually benefit you to recover high more often than not.
Bc G&W players like to drop zone f-air to beat our up-b. Or hit on top of it with d-air.
Again, I would reverse charge cancel, wait to see if he f-airs early, then b-air your way to safety.
Also- if he f-airs, since it’s slow as hell, you can just jump over him lol.
A: I guess hopefully they don't read the high recovery and **** your face with up smash.
W: Yeah in terms of high recovery, look for platforms.
And try to lagless land with up-b.
A: Nair is better than up smash, too, even if you can't lagless.
W: That way the worst you'll be hit by is a n-air.
A: Oh ummm…
What if you're already on the ledge?
W: If G&W is blatantly charging an up smash, looking for an air dodge read
you can d-air him.
It beats it.
Bc it will hit him before he actually lets go of the up smash lol.
If you are already on the ledge, ledge stall with up-b.
But be sure to drift back a bit, kinda like that spacing I told you about vs MK
BUT the optimal thing to do is to up-b ledge snap a few times as fast as possible, and bait G&W to try a dash attack
stage spike.
Anticipating this, your next up-b should drift slightly away from the edge, so this time when you regrab the edge, you
can get on stage safely.
Bc G&W's dash attack is pretty slow.
I have actually punished his dash attack stage spike attempts with DK up air.
You just have to make sure you wait for all of its lingering hitboxes first.
Also, if for any reason G&W commits to running at the ledge, you should be able to roll on stage from the edge lol
But use that sparingly, obviously.
If the G&W is smart and knows the matchup, he will spam d-tilt when you are at the edge.
That **** is annoying @_@
Especially on Yoshi's Island, since the edge is slanted downward.
But they'll never let us fight there ^_-
A: You should seriously just write barebones guides on each character on swf. You don't see half of this stuff there.
Lmao.
W: I would, but I feel like nobody would read it or care
That’s why in the few times I do post
I write essays bc I am super inspired about something lol.
A: I can't believe you think that. XD
Hopefully I'll have more of these that I find randomly via my Facebook PM's in the near future. The other matchup I have a lot of experience in is DK vs Olimar... but I've since switched to using Marth in that matchup due to sheer frustration =P
