Coolwhip
Smash Champion
What's up mario boards!
Back again with a new matchup thread. So, let's start talking about that diddy.
Back again with a new matchup thread. So, let's start talking about that diddy.
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Matchup disscussion: Diddy Kong
- Thread starter Coolwhip
- Start date
Good match-up to discuss imo because it's Mario's best match-up against a top tier character. I play against the best Diddy in Europe on a consistent basis and although I don't use Mario a lot against him I have a pretty good grasp on this match-up.
- Don't throw out cape and fireball blindly! If you use both with a clear purpose it's better - remember that if you cape a long-range banana Diddy will just pick it up with Dash Attack while punishing the lag of the cape. If he throws it from long range Z-Catch it and either dodge his following attack or throw a fireball into its path [main purpose of the fireball in this MU other than catching his landings].
- Bananas should be used for close-quarter combat! Can't stress this enough because a lot of people think it gives Mario the edge in mid-range battle - no, it doesn't! Mid range bananas aren't hard to deal with for *any* characters but they are devastating close up because they're WAY too fast to catch and a trip right in front of the opponent gets punished a LOT harder than a trip from further away.
- Avoid close range combat if he has a banana in his hands! Try to make it a battle between fireballs and bananas from mid-range or further away and camp him until you can get a banana. That's when you can go for close-quarter combat and use the bananas against him. If he gets close to you try to get him off - jumping away quickly can work but if you can't shake him off try to go for a jab combo or a ftilt ... everything else is too punishable via a banana.
- Never dash towards him in a neutral position. Dash is too unsafe against his side-B and banana toss and both are set-ups for each other and are painful. Walking is good because it makes his side-B easily punishable and you will get more opportunities to catch bananas as well.
- Don't try to force the kill. While Diddy doesn't have strong KO power his bananas are such reliable set-ups for easy kills Mario doesn't have the dash speed and frame data to abuse it to the same extent. Usmash OoS after a powershielded side-B is safe and works, at higher % spotdodge-> dsmash can work or utilt through platform [you don't need it as anti-aerial vs Diddy so it'll likely be unstale].
- Don't throw out cape and fireball blindly! If you use both with a clear purpose it's better - remember that if you cape a long-range banana Diddy will just pick it up with Dash Attack while punishing the lag of the cape. If he throws it from long range Z-Catch it and either dodge his following attack or throw a fireball into its path [main purpose of the fireball in this MU other than catching his landings].
- Bananas should be used for close-quarter combat! Can't stress this enough because a lot of people think it gives Mario the edge in mid-range battle - no, it doesn't! Mid range bananas aren't hard to deal with for *any* characters but they are devastating close up because they're WAY too fast to catch and a trip right in front of the opponent gets punished a LOT harder than a trip from further away.
- Avoid close range combat if he has a banana in his hands! Try to make it a battle between fireballs and bananas from mid-range or further away and camp him until you can get a banana. That's when you can go for close-quarter combat and use the bananas against him. If he gets close to you try to get him off - jumping away quickly can work but if you can't shake him off try to go for a jab combo or a ftilt ... everything else is too punishable via a banana.
- Never dash towards him in a neutral position. Dash is too unsafe against his side-B and banana toss and both are set-ups for each other and are painful. Walking is good because it makes his side-B easily punishable and you will get more opportunities to catch bananas as well.
- Don't try to force the kill. While Diddy doesn't have strong KO power his bananas are such reliable set-ups for easy kills Mario doesn't have the dash speed and frame data to abuse it to the same extent. Usmash OoS after a powershielded side-B is safe and works, at higher % spotdodge-> dsmash can work or utilt through platform [you don't need it as anti-aerial vs Diddy so it'll likely be unstale].
JuxtaposeX
Smash Lord
One of my worst matchups.
How do you instant-throw?
How do you instant-throw?
Omari
Smash Journeyman
Mad respect Gheb. You explained yourself quite well & a good portion of what you said proves to better generally (walking4example). What are your feelings about f-tilt down since it does +5 base knock-back? Safe on hit/block?/shield poke?/knock-back?/followup?/etc..Gheb
I don't use ftilt enough in general to make an accurate judgment here. Perhaps I should try to implement that move a lot more and see how it works. If Diddy can't punish it with a banana toss OoS or shieldgrab then I'd say it's a pretty good move in the match-up.
Dekar173
Justice Man
@JuxtaposeX- instant throwing is essnetially the analogue to glidetossing while you're airborne. It's an "airdodge canceled item throw" meaning you are canceling the airdodge in its earliest frames with an item throw.
So to practice this, go on to Battlefield with bananas set to high, put a banana on one of the side platforms, and then input this-
Airdodge > C-stick (any direction)
Do the c-stick part fast enough and instead of airdodging, you'll throw the banana.
@match-up:
You should always be in the air against Diddy, Mario's trip is too punishable. If you get caught in a double naner lock, you are going to eat ~40% and a slightly charged dsmash, which kills Mario around 130 on most stages.
Edgeguarding Diddy is not as difficult as many people make it seem. If he's playing banana games trying to get back on stage, throw them off, or straight up. It's not difficult.
If you duck, Diddy's sideB needs to be spaced perfectly in order to grab you (it can still kick you).
Mario can dribble backwards, meaning- glidetoss backwards and throw the banana down. You're spaced to where you can pick up the banana again. Repeat, profit! Good mix-up for waiting games/changing spacing, and great for punishing dash attack heavy Diddys.
Cape is only good for messing with our recovery, not onstage when instant throwing is significantly better (it's faster and less punishable, and you can combo out of it).
So to practice this, go on to Battlefield with bananas set to high, put a banana on one of the side platforms, and then input this-
Airdodge > C-stick (any direction)
Do the c-stick part fast enough and instead of airdodging, you'll throw the banana.
@match-up:
You should always be in the air against Diddy, Mario's trip is too punishable. If you get caught in a double naner lock, you are going to eat ~40% and a slightly charged dsmash, which kills Mario around 130 on most stages.
Edgeguarding Diddy is not as difficult as many people make it seem. If he's playing banana games trying to get back on stage, throw them off, or straight up. It's not difficult.
If you duck, Diddy's sideB needs to be spaced perfectly in order to grab you (it can still kick you).
Mario can dribble backwards, meaning- glidetoss backwards and throw the banana down. You're spaced to where you can pick up the banana again. Repeat, profit! Good mix-up for waiting games/changing spacing, and great for punishing dash attack heavy Diddys.
Cape is only good for messing with our recovery, not onstage when instant throwing is significantly better (it's faster and less punishable, and you can combo out of it).
Coolwhip
Smash Champion
Thanks for the info, Dekar.
SaveMeJebus
Smash Master
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2010
- Messages
- 4,371
Even MU. Mario can camp and very few things we have can beat it (flip kick, f-air). It also forces us to approach. Mario's cape is really good in this MU but it has to be used in the air. It is really hard for both of these characters to get the kill but it is a little easier for Diddy because of Mario's landing penalty. Just wait for the kill and don't force it. Go for the gimps with your n-air if Diddy is off-stage and recovering with his barrels. Do this and you shouldn't have much trouble
A2ZOMG
Smash Legend
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I find this matchup really hard but then again you know it way better than I do Jebus.
If the Diddy doesn't just hand his Bananas to Mario and spaces well, it's a pretty tedious matchup in my experience. His F-air and SideB are both hard to punish and his DA used wisely breaks zoning like nobody's business.
If the Diddy doesn't just hand his Bananas to Mario and spaces well, it's a pretty tedious matchup in my experience. His F-air and SideB are both hard to punish and his DA used wisely breaks zoning like nobody's business.
JuxtaposeX
Smash Lord
oh ****
wb A2 :D
wb A2 :D
A2ZOMG
Smash Legend
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2007
- Messages
- 12,542
- Location
- RPV, California
- NNID
- A2ZOMG
- Switch FC
- SW 8400 1713 9427
I never really left, I just got stuck without internet for a long time for your information. Also there's half a million things to do and only so much time.
DtJ XeroXen
The biggest fraud
You forgot about Ice Climbers, and Falco.
JuxtaposeX
Smash Lord
Feel bad for him, that Fox guy came in here and took him down with no lube.
vato_break
Smash Master
Diddy beats Mario 60:40. Mario can't kill diddy reliably at all unless diddy wiffs a side B at kill % and mario punishes. All mario can really do in this matchup is Fireball Spam, it's the only thing that mario kinda has going for him but, you can't approach with fireballs unless fh'd because PS>punish and Fair/SideB kick will beat fireballs. The thing about fireballs are they put you in lag, especially if you SH where you can't do anything until you land again. When mario is on the ledge, diddy is a character who can limit marios options very well, so mario only has maybe 2 good options but, will get beat a lot. Also, i wouldn't use bananas if your not good at using them, maybe use them as a bait but, if you don't know how to use them throw them away, diddy will try to take out new ones, don't let this happen punish him in his lag or stay on him. Try to see how he recovers and gimp him, if you can gimp him you can win other wise its tough, mario cant really land any kills moves on diddy. Remember on the ground you can use jab to grab bananas so thats much better than using a grounded cape since grounded cape is laggy. try to land with cape before you hit the ground, there's less of a window open for him to punish you with banananas.
Keep in mind Fireball camping only works if diddy is below you. Diddy can play a time out game, Mario is TOO slow to catch diddy. Diddy jumps really high and sideB puts great distance between him self and mario and can use B reversals to mix up where he lands, in combinations with good disjointed air moves. Its very hard to hit him and in your attempts to hit him he can very easily side B kick for 15% on you or back air or whatever.
most up to date vs i have vs. diddy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4IeSIfdsjk
been playing this matchup forever, and i play MU both ways so i think i know it well.
Keep in mind Fireball camping only works if diddy is below you. Diddy can play a time out game, Mario is TOO slow to catch diddy. Diddy jumps really high and sideB puts great distance between him self and mario and can use B reversals to mix up where he lands, in combinations with good disjointed air moves. Its very hard to hit him and in your attempts to hit him he can very easily side B kick for 15% on you or back air or whatever.
most up to date vs i have vs. diddy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4IeSIfdsjk
been playing this matchup forever, and i play MU both ways so i think i know it well.
Coolwhip
Smash Champion
Thanks for the info, vato.
Would like to see more diddys like adhd & Gnes in here to discuss this mu.
Would like to see more diddys like adhd & Gnes in here to discuss this mu.
ThatGuy
Smash Master
Sorry vato, but I can't take your information seriously until I see who wins a best of 5 between your Diddy against your Mario.
JuxtaposeX
Smash Lord
And it has to be a 50 million dollar money match, to ensure you're not sandbagging.
JuxtaposeX
Smash Lord
If Mario had banana setups it would be 50/50, or if diddy just didn't use naners (lol) it would be 50/50.
DtJ XeroXen
The biggest fraud
It's cool, the next matchup list will be better.I feel the same way about this match-up for the most part. Do-able, but an uphill battle.
Can't believe BBR thinks we're even with the second best character in the game.
