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Matchup Discussion!

MrFrigid

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 23, 2014
Messages
101
Location
SoVa
Switch FC
3259-2884-2790
Hey fellow Link mains!

I main Link, or at least WILL main Link (currently I'm best with the big **** croc).
Can you tell me about who your troubled matchups are (and why?), and which matchups you seem to plow through with ease (and why)?

Tear Through Me:
Samus's: faster moves, disjointed hitboxes, projectiles that have more priority/are faster/spammier.
Sonic:too fast, combos too hard, has too many options.
Chrom: Super fast moves, longer sword, hits really hard. has sick combo game

50/50
Captain Falcon
Mario

Tear through: Shulk, Dr. Mario, Kirby, Gannondorf, Bowser, Yink, TLink, the Belmonts.
 
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Azuraith

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 9, 2009
Messages
100
Location
Chatham, Ontario, Canada
What do you think of Link vs Krool? My friend mains Krool and i play link. I feel like if i make even a few mistakes he can get such early kills on me. But keeping him out with bomb tricks and boomerang helps. I don't struggle that much seeing as he almost never beats me. But thats because overall i am just a better player. Maybe if i was playing against a really skilled krool it would be much harder.
 

MrFrigid

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 23, 2014
Messages
101
Location
SoVa
Switch FC
3259-2884-2790
What do you think of Link vs Krool? My friend mains Krool and i play link. I feel like if i make even a few mistakes he can get such early kills on me. But keeping him out with bomb tricks and boomerang helps. I don't struggle that much seeing as he almost never beats me. But thats because overall i am just a better player. Maybe if i was playing against a really skilled krool it would be much harder.
I think K Rool is easy, but that's my best character.
K Rool has all the drawbacks of an overly heavy character. just stay behind him and you're okay for the most part. also stay out of grab range.
 

Sanjuro

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 30, 2015
Messages
19
I can’t stand Belmont players. Always get stuck on battlefield with them and all they do is spam all their projectiles and tilts. Oh and Incineroar can eat a bag of old man wieners
 

Vidiot825

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 23, 2014
Messages
62
3DS FC
0275-8558-7913
Can't figure out the megaman mu
Without his bombs from s4 that absorbed hits I don't see a viable way to go through the pellet wall considering how slow the rest of his attacks are
 

MrFrigid

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 23, 2014
Messages
101
Location
SoVa
Switch FC
3259-2884-2790
I can’t stand Belmont players. Always get stuck on battlefield with them and all they do is spam all their projectiles and tilts. Oh and Incineroar can eat a bag of old man wieners
I have virtually zero trouble with belmont players, boomerang+bomb combos and they eat ****, one off stage bomb and they're dead.

Can't figure out the megaman mu
Without his bombs from s4 that absorbed hits I don't see a viable way to go through the pellet wall considering how slow the rest of his attacks are
I agree, Link's entire game is basically jabs, bombs, boomerangs, nairs, and bairs against characters who aren't slow as ****.
 

monkeyx4

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 9, 2008
Messages
726
Location
Ga
Switch FC
3936 9382 6790
I Was at a tournament and record a lot, I just need a capture card or I can send replays to anyone, b
(I came in 7th out of 30 in in Ga btw), but j can tell you villager is a huge problem for link, once he takes your bomb he holds on to it forever(till he dies of course) even if you die he still keeps it. But for some reason if he takes your boomerang you can still throw another one same with arrows.

I think that match is a solid 40-60 or 45-55 mu you really have to bait him into thinking your going to use your bomb an punish him. He's annoying as heck, him an his echo char.

All fire emblem chars are dancing spamming blade scrubs, with crazy knockback especially Roy an chrom,with there fairs chaining everytime, because of link being heavy classed. I'll let y'all know how tomorrows tournament go.

Ps. Mr. Gw might be a problem I fought one yesterday on elite smash an he was eating my bombs an boomerang with his down-b just a heads up.
 
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Rocketjay8

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 14, 2018
Messages
370
I Was at a tournament and record a lot, I just need a capture card or I can send replays to anyone, b
(I came in 7th out of 30 in in Ga btw), but j can tell you villager is a huge problem for link, once he takes your bomb he holds on to it forever(till he dies of course) even if you die he still keeps it. But for some reason if he takes your boomerang you can still throw another one same with arrows.

I think that match is a solid 40-60 or 45-55 mu you really have to bait him into thinking your going to use your bomb an punish him. He's annoying as heck, him an his echo char.

All fire emblem chars are dancing spamming blade scrubs, with crazy knockback especially Roy an chrom,with there fairs chaining everytime, because of link being heavy classed. I'll let y'all know how tomorrows tournament go.

Ps. Mr. Gw might be a problem I fought one yesterday on elite smash an he was eating my bombs an boomerang with his down-b just a heads up.
I heard on the Link discord that Villager gets bodied by Link's Nair. When Villager recovers, you can pogo off both of his balloons.
 

monkeyx4

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 9, 2008
Messages
726
Location
Ga
Switch FC
3936 9382 6790
I heard on the Link discord that Villager gets bodied by Link's Nair. When Villager recovers, you can pogo off both of his balloons.
Ok thanks I'll do that next time, that match up was annoying. I wad trying to figure out the on stage mu, i always had him off stage but nair him, but not his balloons an he always came back. I'll aim for only his balloon next time
 

Rocketjay8

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 14, 2018
Messages
370
Ok thanks I'll do that next time, that match up was annoying. I wad trying to figure out the on stage mu, i always had him off stage but nair him, but not his balloons an he always came back. I'll aim for only his balloon next time
Remember that you have disjointed hitboxes, a single jab destroys his Lloyd missles. Bow and Boomerang also get rid of the Lloyd. You may want to test this out, but I think that the reason why Nair bodies him is because of the lingering hitbox, comes out really fast, and beats slingshot. If he does have your bomb, he can also pocket your arrows and boomerang with his net, however, he loses the bomb when he does this. While pocketing your bomb may be an advantage for him, he can't pocket your arrows and boomerang in the air while he has it. Pogo off his balloons with Dair when he recovers with balloon trip. His recovery may seem overpowered because it goes so far, but he can't attack out of it so he's super vulnerable. It has a lot of end-lag when he lands with it.
 
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MrFrigid

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 23, 2014
Messages
101
Location
SoVa
Switch FC
3259-2884-2790
After playing a bunch of Elite Smash today, I wanna rescind virtually all of my other comments, because I am absolute ****ing garbage.
Literally could not beat one single person in elite smash. Lucario, Palutena, Bowser Jr, Swordsmen, anyone.

Couldn't win a match with Falco, K Rool, Yink, or any other character I thought I was good with. Trying to master movement with SHFFs, but it's so ****ing difficult to shorthop in this game.
 

monkeyx4

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 9, 2008
Messages
726
Location
Ga
Switch FC
3936 9382 6790
Went to a tournament yesterday an got beat by sonic which sent me to losers( he was number 2 in my state on smash4 but I didn't play smash 4 so I didn't know how to beat him R.i.p) then i lost to Luciana later in bracket, side b spamming ftw......

I got 13th out 60 at the bi weekly which sucks. How in the world do you beat sonic, he's annoying as heck. I don't want a second main, but If i need one I will. I'm trying to be top player in this game, also i got another tournament today, so any tips is appreciated.
 
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Sanjuro

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 30, 2015
Messages
19
After playing a bunch of Elite Smash today, I wanna rescind virtually all of my other comments, because I am absolute ****ing garbage.
Literally could not beat one single person in elite smash. Lucario, Palutena, Bowser Jr, Swordsmen, anyone.

Couldn't win a match with Falco, K Rool, Yink, or any other character I thought I was good with. Trying to master movement with SHFFs, but it's so ****ing difficult to shorthop in this game.
I had a pretty bad loing streak about a night ago, so I feel your pain. Elites like a mixed bag. Sometimes I’ll body a few people. Sometimes I get wrecked so bad it’s like I don’t know how to play the game.



In other news, Yoshi is a major pain. He still has his jab release combo on us and his speed is a little overwhelming. Anyone got any tips about this MU?
 

monkeyx4

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 9, 2008
Messages
726
Location
Ga
Switch FC
3936 9382 6790
Went to a tournament yesterday an 9th out 57 entrees(pissed I didn't make top 8 but whatever) faced soinc again lost 0-2 but was able to recored the match an get some data.(was able to get him to last stock on game 2 but got 2 stocked high percent first game so I'm getting slightly better)

Ended up losing to b owser out all people an didn't know that he was that good, an lost 1-2.(I choked game 2 an could have won, but then made the mistake into going to YI 3 match lost)

I was able to get a set in on stream, so any tips is helpful. I didn't know how to face shulk ,but kind figured him out mid set. Got another tournament on tomorrow an it's a monthly sop a lot of people are going to be there. I'm studying tonight an training to do good.

Here's link it starts at 2:38:00

https://m.twitch.tv/recursiongg?desktop-redirect=true
 

Tri Knight

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 10, 2015
Messages
783
Haven't fought Toon Link enough to see what he can actually do, but I use both Link and Young Link so here's my input:

Young Link definitely has the upper hand here imo. Faster everything overall is the most obvious issue with Young Link. But the biggest thing is he throws out way more hitboxes than Link can, which will really hurt Link in the MU.

The thing Link has over him is raw killing power, reach, and weight to an extent. He can potentially kill Young Link long before Young Link can kill him. But Young Link will more than likely rack up much more damage in shorter amounts of time than Link will. Nonetheless, Link can force a stock very early with the right commitment and immediately turn the tide, using Young Link's biggest disadvantages: his kill power.

In short, I see the MU going as such: Young Link's ability to be aggressive at all ranges on the fly will likely be key to overwhelm Link, which in turn will make it hard to set up. Link will have a tough time getting in and a tough time keeping out, especially on smaller stages, because he gets outspammed. Link may have to commit a lot here but getting a few of the right hits at the right times will net him some very early stocks. His edgeguarding is superior and using his reach, he can gimp Young Link easily. Really, it's a similar situation to Toon Link vs Link in Smash4 except Link moves a bit faster and lost a spammable special.

45/55 Young Link for now
 
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ScuffedSuzuki

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 24, 2018
Messages
4
What do you think of Link vs Krool? My friend mains Krool and i play link. I feel like if i make even a few mistakes he can get such early kills on me. But keeping him out with bomb tricks and boomerang helps. I don't struggle that much seeing as he almost never beats me. But thats because overall i am just a better player. Maybe if i was playing against a really skilled krool it would be much harder.
In general I find that link can take superheavyweights like krool on very easily, their slow speed and large hitboxes make controlling the stage very easy. On the otherhand i find anyone who's fast to be a big problem, especially the chus due to their small size.
 

EnigmaticNerd

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 12, 2018
Messages
19
something I realized that I don't know if has been brought up anywhere, is that against peach she can treat your bombs like her turnips. meaning good peach players can already be used to grabbing them and mixing them into their combos like they would a turnip. and it can sometimes be tough to detonate them between her regrabs.

but the main thing to note about facing peach, is that just like with her turnips. As long as she is floating, she can use all of her aerial attacks while holding your bomb without having to throw or drop it. preventing you from detonating it.
 
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Tri Knight

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 10, 2015
Messages
783
something I realized that I don't know if has been brought up anywhere, is that against peach she can treat your bombs like her turnips. meaning good peach players can already be used to grabbing them and mixing them into their combos like they would a turnip. and it can sometimes be tough to detonate them between her regrabs.

but the main thing to note about facing peach, is that just like with her turnips. As long as she is floating, she can use all of her aerial attacks while holding your bomb without having to throw or drop it. preventing you from detonating it.
Eh, most of the time I'm sure the Peach would rather use their turnips though, since the bombs only do 1% on hit. Turnips are capable of much more than that.

Sucks for us that those bomb throws are so weak but at least nobody can really make a difference if they hold onto it. Most of the time they're only hurting themselves. Please, hit me with my own bomb for 1% damage.
 

EnigmaticNerd

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 12, 2018
Messages
19
yeah I know, but to me it can really throw you off sometimes though. if someone can lock away your bombs without harming their own options much, it really sucks. I have played a few peach players online who were really good at doing that already...not that im all that good though, just throwing it out there

thats why I mention peaches float. holding onto your bomb, and being able to float off the stage to edgeguard you using all her aerials, severely limits your recovery. or she can prevent you from edgeguarding her, since bombs are great edgeguarding tools, and her aerials are so powerful.
 
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Siledh

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 26, 2015
Messages
203
NNID
Siledhrel
3DS FC
3969-5560-9348
Got bodied by a brilliant Falco the other night. Any tips?
 

Siledh

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 26, 2015
Messages
203
NNID
Siledhrel
3DS FC
3969-5560-9348
Anyone? I find Falco harder than Fox.
 

masterluigi1

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 15, 2007
Messages
219
Location
in your mind
3DS FC
2621-2623-2545
In general I find that link can take superheavyweights like krool on very easily, their slow speed and large hitboxes make controlling the stage very easy. On the otherhand i find anyone who's fast to be a big problem, especially the chus due to their small size.
the thing is that unlike other heavies, krools crown beats out pretty much all of links projectiles rendering them useless. it also has super armor so if you jump in u can potentially get punished. out of all heavies id say link has the most trouble with krool.

i also think fox is a bad matchup for link
 

Mischiiii

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 2, 2019
Messages
117
Location
Germany (Hessen)
I think the Palutena matchup is hard. I tried to close the gap since explosive flame and neutral B gave me a hard time. But i feel like she is better at close combat.

I’m curious what you guys think about thia matchup and how you handle it.
 
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purpleParadox

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 6, 2019
Messages
4
I've had a huge problem fighting my friend who mains Shulk, I can get some damage off on him but he seems to outrange me with everything, and even my arrows and boomerangs arent able to zone him out (but I might just be a bad link)
 

BuddyBaker52

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Messages
24
Im wondering if anyone has any advice on the Ike match up. On a flat stage I don't have much trouble keeping him out and spacing moves. I even figured out a semi reliable 0 to death (b.air to d.throw to f.tilt off stage and spike with d.air or just bomb... Or pretty much anything can gimp Ike if timed right I feel). But platforms are a different story. He feels oppressive and maybe I need to just grind it out but I'm wondering what my strongest tools might be. Still fresh to the game and hope I don't come off like a complete scrub but I have been improving a lot. My friend is just better than me ATM and need some bragging rights lol
 

ScuffedSuzuki

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 24, 2018
Messages
4
I think the Palutena matchup is hard. I tried to close the gap since explosive flame and neutral B gave me a hard time. But i feel like she is better at close combat.

I’m curious what you guys think about thia matchup and how you handle it.
I think its best to play the projectile game at that point, if she won't let you get close than you have to do the same thing and try and capitalize on a misplaced fireball since she can't move during that time.
 

Swordplay

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Messages
1,716
Location
Chicago
I Finding dual maining to be important here. Who in the roster could cover some of these matchups?

Rushdown characters especially with reflectors seem to be a weakness and I'm wondering what can go toe to toe to cover those matchups
 

~?~

The Strangest Link Main
Joined
Feb 24, 2019
Messages
266
Location
Baltimore
As a savage Link main, there are only a small few matchups that are "bad" for Link. Literally just a few. Chrom isn't a "bad" matchup to be honest. I just think you need to get used to spacing and using angled boomerangs on him. The following Characters are the actual notable bad matchups for Link.

Megaman 80/20 = Just using his lemons is enough to turn off half of links tools.
Zelda 60/40 = Neutral Special and Phantom. Many links need to lab out how to get around that fact that Phantom is a lasting body that block projectiles, even after launching its hitbox.
Olimar 70/30 = It's obvious why.

Other than these matchups, there are no troubles if you aren't a spammer with projectiles. It's the spam style links that have trouble with people like Chrom or Lucina, or Sonic for example. I actually believe Sonics speed is a very big weakness in the Link matchup because it's harder for them to stop. Captain Falcon actually seems to be better in the Link matchup than Sonic does. Falcon has actual good kill options against him.

To be honest tho, the only matchup you should be concerned about is a GOOD Megaman player because all they have to do is A button to cancel your midrange game and then get you offstage for an almost free fist edgeguard. It's literally one of the worst matchups in the game.

Samus again, like it is the case for Chrom and other faster characters, is only good against bad online habits like mindlessly spamming projectiles. If you pull your bomb in the air while moving left in right instead of while standing still, and throw the boomerang while moving instead of while standing in place, Samus has little to no "get in" options. Yeah she has charge shot, but you have a shield that is so good that you can just stand there and that charge shot will do nothing. Her missiles are easy to avoid because they are slower than Link is and you can shoot it with the tap of the B button (arrow) or do a fade back bomb drop.

As I said tho, after putting almost a thousand hours into Link, this is my knowledge of what is and what isn't good against link.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that Wolf is also a bad matchup, but that's true for most the cast because Wolf is literally one of the more unbalanced characters in the game and to be honest, 95 out of 100 Wolf mains are carried by the Character. To beat this matchup, it's easier said than done against a REAL Wolf main. But against one of those 95 carried Wolf mains, just bait out reflector. Super EZ.
 
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~?~

The Strangest Link Main
Joined
Feb 24, 2019
Messages
266
Location
Baltimore
Im wondering if anyone has any advice on the Ike match up. On a flat stage I don't have much trouble keeping him out and spacing moves. I even figured out a semi reliable 0 to death (b.air to d.throw to f.tilt off stage and spike with d.air or just bomb... Or pretty much anything can gimp Ike if timed right I feel). But platforms are a different story. He feels oppressive and maybe I need to just grind it out but I'm wondering what my strongest tools might be. Still fresh to the game and hope I don't come off like a complete scrub but I have been improving a lot. My friend is just better than me ATM and need some bragging rights lol
I don't know a single Ike main that doesn't shorthop Nair on your shield and then instantly jump to do another. When they do that second Nair, parry and punish. It's free.
 

BuddyBaker52

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Messages
24
As a savage Link main, there are only a small few matchups that are "bad" for Link. Literally just a few. Chrom isn't a "bad" matchup to be honest. I just think you need to get used to spacing and using angled boomerangs on him. The following Characters are the actual notable bad matchups for Link.

Megaman 80/20 = Just using his lemons is enough to turn off half of links tools.
Zelda 60/40 = Neutral Special and Phantom. Many links need to lab out how to get around that fact that Phantom is a lasting body that block projectiles, even after launching its hitbox.
Olimar 70/30 = It's obvious why.

Other than these matchups, there are no troubles if you aren't a spammer with projectiles. It's the spam style links that have trouble with people like Chrom or Lucina, or Sonic for example. I actually believe Sonics speed is a very big weakness in the Link matchup because it's harder for them to stop. Captain Falcon actually seems to be better in the Link matchup than Sonic does. Falcon has actual good kill options against him.

To be honest tho, the only matchup you should be concerned about is a GOOD Megaman player because all they have to do is A button to cancel your midrange game and then get you offstage for an almost free fist edgeguard. It's literally one of the worst matchups in the game.

Samus again, like it is the case for Chrom and other faster characters, is only good against bad online habits like mindlessly spamming projectiles. If you pull your bomb in the air while moving left in right instead of while standing still, and throw the boomerang while moving instead of while standing in place, Samus has little to no "get in" options. Yeah she has charge shot, but you have a shield that is so good that you can just stand there and that charge shot will do nothing. Her missiles are easy to avoid because they are slower than Link is and you can shoot it with the tap of the B button (arrow) or do a fade back bomb drop.

As I said tho, after putting almost a thousand hours into Link, this is my knowledge of what is and what isn't good against link.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that Wolf is also a bad matchup, but that's true for most the cast because Wolf is literally one of the more unbalanced characters in the game and to be honest, 95 out of 100 Wolf mains are carried by the Character. To beat this matchup, it's easier said than done against a REAL Wolf main. But against one of those 95 carried Wolf mains, just bait out reflector. Super EZ.
Thanks. I do everything you said in both replies and appreciate the response. I've actually improved a lot since posting that.
My friend is just really good. He's in the high 3 mil gsp with like 4 characters. His Ike is hella good. He does a really good job of spacing his Nair's so they are hard to punish. But my bomb set ups have improved a lot and I think that is really helping. That and letting him come to me and not going into auto pilot with Nair's of my own lol. A 100% with what you said about sonic, chrom and Samus. The only acception with fast characters (for me at least) is Pichu. I hate playing against them.
 

ILOVESMASH

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 12, 2014
Messages
590
NNID
Marioman123450
3DS FC
3368-1022-7382
As a savage Link main, there are only a small few matchups that are "bad" for Link. Literally just a few. Chrom isn't a "bad" matchup to be honest. I just think you need to get used to spacing and using angled boomerangs on him. The following Characters are the actual notable bad matchups for Link.

Megaman 80/20 = Just using his lemons is enough to turn off half of links tools.
Zelda 60/40 = Neutral Special and Phantom. Many links need to lab out how to get around that fact that Phantom is a lasting body that block projectiles, even after launching its hitbox.
Olimar 70/30 = It's obvious why.

Other than these matchups, there are no troubles if you aren't a spammer with projectiles. It's the spam style links that have trouble with people like Chrom or Lucina, or Sonic for example. I actually believe Sonics speed is a very big weakness in the Link matchup because it's harder for them to stop. Captain Falcon actually seems to be better in the Link matchup than Sonic does. Falcon has actual good kill options against him.

To be honest tho, the only matchup you should be concerned about is a GOOD Megaman player because all they have to do is A button to cancel your midrange game and then get you offstage for an almost free fist edgeguard. It's literally one of the worst matchups in the game.

Samus again, like it is the case for Chrom and other faster characters, is only good against bad online habits like mindlessly spamming projectiles. If you pull your bomb in the air while moving left in right instead of while standing still, and throw the boomerang while moving instead of while standing in place, Samus has little to no "get in" options. Yeah she has charge shot, but you have a shield that is so good that you can just stand there and that charge shot will do nothing. Her missiles are easy to avoid because they are slower than Link is and you can shoot it with the tap of the B button (arrow) or do a fade back bomb drop.

As I said tho, after putting almost a thousand hours into Link, this is my knowledge of what is and what isn't good against link.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that Wolf is also a bad matchup, but that's true for most the cast because Wolf is literally one of the more unbalanced characters in the game and to be honest, 95 out of 100 Wolf mains are carried by the Character. To beat this matchup, it's easier said than done against a REAL Wolf main. But against one of those 95 carried Wolf mains, just bait out reflector. Super EZ.
Interesting matchup opinions. Are there any characters you'd recommend to handle Olimar and Megaman?
 

~?~

The Strangest Link Main
Joined
Feb 24, 2019
Messages
266
Location
Baltimore
Interesting matchup opinions. Are there any characters you'd recommend to handle Olimar and Megaman?
Olimar is all around good to be honest. Arguably a top tier, so it's hard to say really who you want to use, but I see some advantages to playing Fox and Lucina in the Olimar matchup. As far as Megaman goes, anyone but a character who has a toolkit made up of sour hitbox projectiles. The Megaman matchup goes from 9/1 to 7/3 if you're on a tri-platform stage, so it becomes "doable", just avoid PS2 and FD as stages because they pretty much get a free win.
 
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