Matchup Chart Project 2015 - Calling Donkey Kong Mains!

[Zareidriel]

Hello Donkey Kong boards,

I'm Zareidriel. Over in this thread a guy called Assassannerr made a matchup chart, and asked people to help fill it out. It seems like it would be a cool thing to have. With once glance you could have a rough idea of a matchup. It won't be perfect, but for our first go at it in 2015 we're aiming for "somewhat functional."

So here's what I'm going to do. Go to every Character Discussion board, and ask the folks there if they wouldn't mind contributing. To submit one vote, you'll have to fill out one of these:

////////////******
Bowser
Bowser Jr
Captain Falcon
Charizard
Diddy Kong
Donkey Kong
Duck Hunt
Falco
Fox
Mr. Game & Watch
Ganondorf
Greninja
Ike
Jigglypuff
King Dedede
Kirby
Link
Little Mac
Lucario
Luigi
Mario
Dr. Mario
Marth
Lucina
Metaknight
Ness
Olimar
Palutena
Pikachu
Pit & Dark Pit
Peach
Zelda
R.O.B.
Robin
Rosalina
Samus
Sheik
Shulk
Toon Link
Villager
Wario
Wii Fit Trainer
Yoshi
Zero Suit Samus
Megaman
Pacman
Sonic
Ryu
Roy
Mewtwo
Lucas
Brawler
Swordfighter
Gunner
******//////////


Mark each character with a + for a match where Donkey Kong HAS THE ADVANTAGE
Mark each character with a - for a match where Donkey Kong HAS THE DISADVANTAGE
Mark each character with a number 0 for a match you feel is very even.

NOTE THAT I AM ONLY TAKING VOTES FROM MEMBERS WITH Donkey Kong IN THEIR PROFILE BAR. It can be as either "Wii U Main" or "3DS Main". But if Donkey Kong is in neither one of those slots when I count the votes on Friday, Nov 13, it won't be counted.

(Yes, for the avid democrats out there, that means you can vote for one other character as well.)

Like I said, they won't be perfect, and each board will probably be a little biased toward their own respective character. But the results should be interesting regardless.

If this thing is successful maybe we'll do a revised version in 2016.

Thanks very much for participating! We need as many votes as possible for each character so please submit a ballot!

 

[Dre89]

Hello Donkey Kong boards,

I'm Zareidriel. Over in this thread a guy called Assassannerr made a matchup chart, and asked people to help fill it out. It seems like it would be a cool thing to have. With once glance you could have a rough idea of a matchup. It won't be perfect, but for our first go at it in 2015 we're aiming for "somewhat functional."

So here's what I'm going to do. Go to every Character Discussion board, and ask the folks there if they wouldn't mind contributing. To submit one vote, you'll have to fill out one of these:

////////////******
Bowser
Bowser Jr
Captain Falcon
Charizard
Diddy Kong
Donkey Kong
Duck Hunt
Falco
Fox
Mr. Game & Watch
Ganondorf
Greninja
Ike
Jigglypuff
King Dedede
Kirby
Link
Little Mac
Lucario
Luigi
Mario
Dr. Mario
Marth
Lucina
Metaknight
Ness
Olimar
Palutena
Pikachu
Pit & Dark Pit
Peach
Zelda
R.O.B.
Robin
Rosalina
Samus
Sheik
Shulk
Toon Link
Villager
Wario
Wii Fit Trainer
Yoshi
Zero Suit Samus
Megaman
Pacman
Sonic
Ryu
Roy
Mewtwo
Lucas
Brawler
Swordfighter
Gunner
******//////////


Mark each character with a + for a match where Donkey Kong HAS THE ADVANTAGE
Mark each character with a - for a match where Donkey Kong HAS THE DISADVANTAGE
Mark each character with a number 0 for a match you feel is very even.

NOTE THAT I AM ONLY TAKING VOTES FROM MEMBERS WITH Donkey Kong IN THEIR PROFILE BAR. It can be as either "Wii U Main" or "3DS Main". But if Donkey Kong is in neither one of those slots when I count the votes on Friday, Nov 13, it won't be counted.

(Yes, for the avid democrats out there, that means you can vote for one other character as well.)

Like I said, they won't be perfect, and each board will probably be a little biased toward their own respective character. But the results should be interesting regardless.

If this thing is successful maybe we'll do a revised version in 2016.

Thanks very much for participating! We need as many votes as possible for each character so please submit a ballot!

I'm a bit confused on what we're supposed to do.

If I want to say that the Captain Falcon MU is slightly in our favour, do I just post here saying it's +1?

Also how do we convey how skewed the MU is? CF is only slightly favourable for us IMO, but ZSS is like 80 20 her way. +1 and -1 doesn't really convey the difference in the advantages for the respective characters.

 

[Zareidriel]

For this version of the graph, we will not be doing weighted advantage/disadvantage (+4 vs +1) because with the first Matchup Chart we're trying to start out small. Trying to aggregate everyone's advantage/disadvantage votes would be even more difficult than it will be to manage just 3-way votes for the ~50ish characters.

Here's an example:

Bowser +
Bowser Jr -
Captain Falcon 0
Charizard +
Diddy Kong -
Donkey Kong +

When Donkey Kong has an advantage vs Bowser, disadvantage vs Bowser Jr, and and even matchup with Captain Falcon, etc.

 

[Dre89]

Ok thanks. I'll post some I know

CF +1
Bowser +1
Charizard +1
Ganondorf +1
Little Mac +1
D3 +1
DHD +1

Sheik -1
ZSS -1
Diddy -1
Sonic -1
Villager


Rosa 0
Megaman 0

These are just the match ups I'm pretty confident on. Felt like other MUs would be too speculative on my part.

 

[Big O]

I'll take a shot at this, but for me 0 would also include slight advantage/disadvantage (45-55 to 55-45 range). I feel +/- would be too vague and inaccurate if it included such small advantages/disadvantages. This way the + and - parts are more clearly agreeable. If 0 is going to be reserved for 100% even, I feel like we'd be splitting too many hairs at that point.

Bowser 0
Bowser Jr -
Captain Falcon 0
Charizard 0
Diddy Kong -
Donkey Kong 0
Duck Hunt 0
Falco 0
Fox -
Mr. Game & Watch 0
Ganondorf 0
Greninja 0
Ike 0
Jigglypuff +
King Dedede 0
Kirby 0
Link 0
Little Mac +
Lucario 0
Luigi 0
Mario 0
Dr. Mario 0
Marth 0
Lucina +
Metaknight -
Ness 0
Olimar -
Palutena 0
Pikachu -
Pit & Dark Pit 0
Peach 0
Zelda 0
R.O.B. 0
Robin 0
Rosalina -
Samus 0
Sheik -
Shulk 0
Toon Link 0
Villager 0
Wario 0
Wii Fit Trainer -
Yoshi -
Zero Suit Samus -
Megaman 0
Pacman 0
Sonic -
Ryu 0
Roy 0
Mewtwo 0
Lucas 0
Brawler -
Swordfighter 0
Gunner 0

I felt Marth is on the cusp of being +, but Lucina's lack of aerial KO power and early tipper KO's makes her worse enough against DK to warrant a +.

 

[Zareidriel]

Voting closes tomorrow at midnight. Get those ballots in!

Only one full vote, Donkeys? I would appreciate a couple more if possible.

 

[Chrome Kingfisher]

Bowser 0
Bowser Jr -
Captain Falcon -
Charizard 0
Diddy Kong -
Donkey Kong 0
Duck Hunt -
Falco 0
Fox -
Mr. Game & Watch 0
Ganondorf 0
Greninja -
Ike 0
Jigglypuff +
King Dedede 0
Kirby +
Link -
Little Mac +
Lucario -
Luigi -
Mario -
Dr. Mario -
Marth 0
Lucina 0
Metaknight -
Ness -
Olimar -
Palutena 0
Pikachu -
Pit & Dark Pit -
Peach 0
Zelda 0
R.O.B. -
Robin -
Rosalina -
Samus 0
Sheik -
Shulk 0
Toon Link -
Villager -
Wario 0
Wii Fit Trainer -
Yoshi -
Zero Suit Samus -
Megaman -
Pacman -
Sonic -
Ryu -
Roy -
Mewtwo 0
Lucas 0
Brawler -
Swordfighter 0
Gunner -

 

[Dre89]

Bowser 0
Bowser Jr -
Captain Falcon -
Charizard 0
Diddy Kong -
Donkey Kong 0
Duck Hunt -
Falco 0
Fox -
Mr. Game & Watch 0
Ganondorf 0
Greninja -
Ike 0
Jigglypuff +
King Dedede 0
Kirby +
Link -
Little Mac +
Lucario -
Luigi -
Mario -
Dr. Mario -
Marth 0
Lucina 0
Metaknight -
Ness -
Olimar -
Palutena 0
Pikachu -
Pit & Dark Pit -
Peach 0
Zelda 0
R.O.B. -
Robin -
Rosalina -
Samus 0
Sheik -
Shulk 0
Toon Link -
Villager -
Wario 0
Wii Fit Trainer -
Yoshi -
Zero Suit Samus -
Megaman -
Pacman -
Sonic -
Ryu -
Roy -
Mewtwo 0
Lucas 0
Brawler -
Swordfighter 0
Gunner -

Sorry but why are you listing all the heavies as even? DK is basically like them but more mobile and gets way more reward for getting in. He has the best advantaged state of all the heavies and the best off-stage game, both offensively and defensively.

Also DK beats Falcon, but I can see why people would think he loses if they don't have a ton of experience in the MU.

 

[Chrome Kingfisher]

Sorry but why are you listing all the heavies as even? DK is basically like them but more mobile and gets way more reward for getting in. He has the best advantaged state of all the heavies and the best off-stage game, both offensively and defensively.

Also DK beats Falcon, but I can see why people would think he loses if they don't have a ton of experience in the MU.

Yeah, I think I would change the falcon match-up to 0 after labbing it for quite some time this week with my friends. As for the heavies, they're so strong that I feel like it comes down to the better player and whoever has more experience with the match-up. I would give DK a slight advantage for being the highest tier heavy, but not enough advantage to merit a +.

 

[Dre89]

Yeah, I think I would change the falcon match-up to 0 after labbing it for quite some time this week with my friends. As for the heavies, they're so strong that I feel like it comes down to the better player and whoever has more experience with the match-up. I would give DK a slight advantage for being the highest tier heavy, but not enough advantage to merit a +.

I have over 1000 games experience in the Falcon MU, most of which I've lost due to the Falcon being way better than me, and we both think DK wins.

DK is just better at everything except for bait and punish in neutral. But even then, we out range and out prioritise him. He gets destroyed by grabs, and his playstyle makes him vulnerable to pivot grabs. He's one of the easiest to ding dong too. Upb also wrecks him on the ground, and he can't contest bair with anything.

We have much better advantaged states than he does. He actually struggles to kill if he doesn't gimp you at low percents. At higher percents if he knocks you off-stage you can DI away from the stage and he'll have to return to the stage before you because you have better horizontal recovery. DK on the other hand can gimp him at most percents.

It's not a hard counter or anything, but there is a noticeable advantage.

 

[a dog]

Why is that people think that DK wins the Little Mac matchup? Just curious.

I'm currently on the fence, myself. Mac has insane frame data on his moves and he can interrupt most anything DK tries to do, plus he has great combos (bad news for a big target like DK), and lots of setups for his KO punch which totally negates DK's status as a heavyweight.

I'm not sure what DK is even supposed to do in this matchup except hope to get Mac offstage and go for a gimp, but if the Mac is playing on point then that may never happen. It's especially hard now that the shield stun game has changed making his tilts and attacks even safer than they were before if they're shielded.

Everyone can beat a bad FG Mac, but when I play a good Mac I kinda feel helpless and unsure as to how to approach the match-up. Mac is fast, tiny, safe, and has tons of armor, making DK's play so much harder.

 

[Chrome Kingfisher]

You're definitely right about advantaged state, dre. Captain's recovery is very predictable and easy to gimp/punish.

a dog: Unless the Little Mac player plays perfectly (which is very unrealistic), then he will be grabbed and placed off stage or he will be baired off stage. As long as DK bans FD, then Little Mac can't play the game he wants to and is forced to play DK's game. I actually faced a Little Mac in WQF at a local tournament and JV3'd him in the first game, he then decided it was best to switch characters for the 2nd game. DK also has super armor to contest LM's super armor (something else he LM isn't used to encountering). Dtilt also trips 40% of the time -read most of the time- which true combos into grab and DK's edge guarding is on par with sheik's.

 

[Dre89]

Why is that people think that DK wins the Little Mac matchup? Just curious.

I'm currently on the fence, myself. Mac has insane frame data on his moves and he can interrupt most anything DK tries to do, plus he has great combos (bad news for a big target like DK), and lots of setups for his KO punch which totally negates DK's status as a heavyweight.

I'm not sure what DK is even supposed to do in this matchup except hope to get Mac offstage and go for a gimp, but if the Mac is playing on point then that may never happen. It's especially hard now that the shield stun game has changed making his tilts and attacks even safer than they were before if they're shielded.

Everyone can beat a bad FG Mac, but when I play a good Mac I kinda feel helpless and unsure as to how to approach the match-up. Mac is fast, tiny, safe, and has tons of armor, making DK's play so much harder.

DK wins because his neutral is only slightly worse but his margin for error is much larger. You just have to play differently than normal. Play more grounded and try space with dtilts and jabs. DK is the best in the game at getting him off-stage with a grab thanks to bthrow and cargo, and pivot grab is very good against him. You also have dash attack for mix ups. Upb can be good in circumstances, heck even downb could work as a mixup seeing as Mac is always grounded.

DK loses neutral, but he had good enough tools that Mac's advantage there doesn't make up for how low his margin for error is.

 

[a dog]

Thank you for the tips, guys. I do know his up b has super armor, but utilizing the armor on his punch feels like it requires a correct guess at my skill level since the window of armored frames is smaller in this game. If it's thrown too late, the punch will be stopped before it comes out. Too soon, and Mac's armor will beat out yours.

Anyway I'll keep these tips in mind next time a good Mac comes along. Thanks again!

 

[Incoleo]

Hey DK board!! I'm working on tallying up everyone's votes for this project, and even though the deadline's passed, we're in overtime.

Zareidriel has said that you can still vote on any character's matchups if they have less than five votes, and guess what: yours only has three.

So, any DK mains that haven't yet, go ahead and vote on matchups for the first member of the DK crew!! EXPAND THIS THREAD(ONG)

 

[DkDaggers]

Bowser 0
Bowser Jr -
Captain Falcon 0
Charizard +
Diddy Kong -
Donkey Kong 0
Duck Hunt 0
Falco +
Fox -
Mr. Game & Watch 0
Ganondorf +
Greninja 0
Ike 0
Jigglypuff +
King Dedede 0
Kirby 0
Link 0
Little Mac +
Lucario 0
Luigi -
Mario +
Dr. Mario +
Marth +
Lucina +
Metaknight -
Ness -
Olimar -
Palutena +
Pikachu -
Pit & Dark Pit 0
Peach 0
Zelda +
R.O.B. -
Robin -
Rosalina -
Samus 0
Sheik -
Shulk +
Toon Link -
Villager -
Wario 0
Wii Fit Trainer -
Yoshi -
Zero Suit Samus -
Megaman -
Pacman 0
Sonic -
Ryu 0
Roy +
Mewtwo +
Lucas -

 

[RiotLettuce]

I know it's super late and all, and the voting closed at like November 14th, but this is some good DK discussion here, so i'll input my opinion, feel free to ask me on why i think certain things

Bowser 0
Bowser Jr -
Captain Falcon 0
Charizard +
Diddy Kong +
Donkey Kong 0
Duck Hunt +
Falco +
Fox -
Mr. Game & Watch +
Ganondorf +
Greninja +
Ike 0
Jigglypuff +
King Dedede -
Kirby +
Link +
Little Mac +
Lucario +
Luigi 0
Mario +
Dr. Mario +
Marth 0
Lucina +
Metaknight 0
Ness +
Olimar 0
Palutena 0
Pikachu -
Pit & Dark Pit -
Peach -
Zelda +
R.O.B. -
Robin -
Rosalina -
Samus 0
Sheik -
Shulk +
Toon Link -
Villager 0
Wario 0
Wii Fit Trainer +
Yoshi -
Zero Suit Samus -
Megaman +
Pacman -
Sonic -
Ryu +
Roy +
Mewtwo +
Lucas +

 

[Incoleo]

That makes five!! (even though like NOBODY voted on the miis :u )
Zareidriel


////////////******

Bowser +====

Bowser Jr ----

Captain Falcon +=-==

Charizard +==++

Diddy Kong ----+

Donkey Kong =====

Duck Hunt +=-=+

Falco ==++

Fox ----

Mr. Game & Watch ===+

Ganondorf +=0++

Greninja =-=+

Ike ====

Jigglypuff ++++

King Dedede +===-

Kirby =+=+

Link =-=+

Little Mac +++++

Lucario =-=+

Luigi =--=

Mario =-++

Dr. Mario =-++

Marth ==+=

Lucina +=++

Metaknight ---=

Ness =--+

Olimar ---=

Palutena ==+=

Pikachu ----

Pit & Dark Pit =-=-

Peach ===-

Zelda ==++

R.O.B. =---

Robin =---

Rosalina =----

Samus ====

Sheik -----

Shulk =-++

Toon Link =---

Villager -==-=

Wario ====

Wii Fit Trainer ---+

Yoshi ----

Zero Suit Samus -----

Megaman ==--+

Pacman =-=-

Sonic -----

Ryu =-=+

Roy =-++

Mewtwo ==++

Lucas ==-+

Brawler --

Swordfighter ==

Gunner =-

******//////////

 

[RiotLettuce]

I couldn't understand this comment above me if i tried

 

[Big O]

I couldn't understand this comment above me if i tried

He tallied all the votes each character got with +, =, - representing good MU, even MU, and bad MU respectively. Everyone agreed Fox is a bad MU and one person thought Rosa is even for example.