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Match ups: Fox, Falco, Marth, and Captain Falcon.Fox update 11-26 /newer falco vids

brickman

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 11, 2006
Messages
1,282
Location
Kansas City, MO
My style and take on these match ups are presented below. This is just one way to play sheik.

Fox- Fox match updated version
The advantages
Your biggest advantage in this match up is your edge guarding. The ability for you win this match is based off your individual skill at getting fox off, and keeping him off.
Needles are an extremely important asset in achieving your advantage. Using them to set up the correct angle of approach of fox and limiting his return to the edge options, you will learn to place them and use them more effectively.

Down smash. Drephen recommended, proven by every Sheik player in the world. It works, it hits hard, and it does a good deal of damage. It can be used whenever you feel like it, but as you will learn some situations are better than others.

Grabbing. Again another Drephen favorite. Sheik's grab against Fox is important for getting him off the stage, combos and for generally racking up some damage.

Tilits. Up and forward tilt can be used to combo a Fox at mid range percentages and are extremely useful in combos.

DI'ing. Learn to do it well. Smash DI's and ASDI's are essential if you are going to survive a up throw to up air. Eventually (hopefully) you will master this technique.

The disadvantages
Fox is faster than you, that means you can not really run from him, so don't. Be defensive but don't retreat. Keep up the pressure.

Shine to upsmash/(grab -> up air). You know it is going to happen in the match, but don't fall victim too often. Learn the spacing, and if worst comes to worst DI correctly to make sure that it doesn't lead into a 40+ percent combo.

Shine in general. It is vicious and quick. Although most Sheik players have a “feeling” for how they should come back against a Fox who is shine happy, or just smart with shine, it is indeed something to be weary of. Shine can be used for linking combos, quick kills, or set ups into countless other things.

Lasers are a quick way for fox to rack up damage if you are sitting back waiting for him to come to you. They can be used to rack up damage as you come back to the stage or as he makes his approach.

While the list of disadvantages is shorter than the advantages, the general belief is that Fox has the upper hand in this match up. This is most likely the case for Sheik's who don't quite have an idea how to handle the situation yet (I'm still frustratingly learning as well). Yet I think there are a couple of important things to do in this match up. While my previous explanations of this match up were over detailed and perhaps, and most likely, dated and miss informed, I am attempting to provide a more informed and experienced point of view. The following is a summary of the general form of a match, or ideas that I approach the match with.

The Beginning of the Match
The first 30-40% of the match can vary greatly by both parties. While Fox is in possession of moves that can rack up damage insanely quickly, as Sheik you have to make sure to limit these by use of your maneuvering and own moves. The first thing I like to start a match out with is trying to find a spot in where I can grab. Learn their tech patterns early as they will reward you down the road. If you are luck enough to read their tech (or lack their of) you can do a number of things. The charged up or down smash is always up to be used, or you can re-grab, jab, etc.

Once you have racked up some initial damage and maybe read a tech or two, it is important to keep moving and keep the pressure up. Down smashes, grabs, neutral airs, and forward airs are some of the moves that I use quite frequently trying to keep the fox in check and as humble as possible, but there are a great number of choices, depending on your individual style. Now it is time to chance getting the fox off the edge. This can be a number of ways, including a tilt/ running attack to forward air, down smash or grab. The following is essential for making the most of this situation.

The edge guard
The most important thing to do when a fox is off the stage is to make sure that they stay off. While different players approach this situation with different styles, I think it is important to provide you with not only their styles and approaches, as well as my own based off of observations and personal experience.

The use of needles and the frequency of which they are used to stop the return of Fox to the stage is always up for dispute. It is important to use them as situation requires. Since the way a Fox can get back onto the stage is so varied, the ways you stop him from doing so will have to be equally creative. Provided, not every situation will call for needles. In fact, in some situations they would be completely counterproductive.

When Fox is above the stage the use of needles is obviously a case in which I personally find the use of needles counterproductive (unless stage permits its, discussed later). Yet in the case of neutral stages (YS, FoD,PS,BF,FD,DL) I think use of a neutral air in most cases is effective to bring them down. The neutral air is effective because it stays out so long and can be used if the fox is stalling and can interrupt his over b, if he should attempt to use it.

From there it is important to address your stage, if you find yourself on a small stage say YS, then you may wish to just land on the platform, assess the location of Fox then and get on the edge and use a back air, or perhaps use angled needles to knock the Fox further down and then get on the edge. From the edge your choices are a little less varied than when you were on the stage. The approach of the fox is critical for determining what move you are going to use. No need to be flashy, only efficient. If an edge hog is all that is needed, than stick with it. If you can tell the fox is going to make it back, figure out his angle and back air his face in. Or don't give him a chance and meet him down there and neutral air him and get back on the edge.

Figuring out how best to keep a fox off of the stage is probably the most important offensive thing for a sheik player to learn. I write this guide on the assumption that most of the people reading this have an understanding of how Sheik's moves work, and how you can make basic combos. What I don't assume the reader knows is the means and the situations in which those moves can be best used to take advantages of the disadvantages of the opposing characters.

Finishing the Match
This match should be a quick match either way. If the sheik wins, it is due to the fact that he got the Fox off of the stage at a relatively low percentage (40-70) and kept him off. It is going to be a quick match if the fox won because that means Sheik got combo ed to death and or shine spiked.

This match should be challenging for you, but it should also be a good learning experience during the match and over the course of your experience in playing in general. From this match you are going to learn a lot, mostly how fast and vicious a competent fox player can be. But you will also realize that you can take advantage of fox through means of Sheik's own abilities. This all starts with learning how your specific fox moves, and how they approach you. Learn their patterns, as with all characters, and most importantly learn how they approach the stage when getting back. This match depends on it.

While Sheik can go toe to toe with most characters in building up percent, fox is not a character you want to be stuck with on a huge stage. Get them off the stage, and keep them there.

Stage Selection Do's and Do not's
Most Sheik's often will ban FD, and sometimes I can agree with them depending on the style of the fox they are fighting. If they are fighting against a Fox that does combos that seem to require large amounts of horizontal space (combo's involving large amounts of tilts, jabs, shines, re-grabs) than it is important to stay away from this stage. Not to mention the absolute dearth of platforms which seem to have become ever so important to Sheik players. Yet this stage is pretty good in some respects, if you can manage to keep enough pressure on the fox, the abilities of Sheik to guard these edges are great. I don't even have to mention the numerous videos of (KDJ, Plank, Drephen, Azen, and Tope) but I will, and their ability to guard the edge on this stage.

As for the other neutral stages, it really does depend on your personal preference and level of comfort. My favorite stage to play against Fox is YS. This may seem disadvantageous as Sheik's get back is some what limited, but I like the closeness of the stage. The walls of the stage are small so quick deaths will be the result for either party. The platforms are nice for quick aerials, and on a fun note, I love using wall jumps in get backs.

For counter pick stages, be creative use your personal sense on the match up. Look for what you are best at whether it be following techs, aerials tilts, or you just like to go tech crazy on Princess Peaches Castle. This match up is up to you to think and think you must. This is the most thinking intensive match up I can think of that requires you to be constantly predicting and guessing.

Good Luck, hope this was of some help.

Falco- This is by far my favorite match up. It is also one of the most difficult match ups that Sheik can deal with. With Falco's ability to pillar shine Sheik up to mid sixty percent (given that you do not fully di the attacks, even still) it can be a painful match up. Nonetheless, it is a very doable match up. Your main focus is going to be very similar to the Fox match up, with a few variations. A strong focus should be placed on getting Falco off the edge and keeping him there. How to accomplish these ends will now be explained.

Lasers, Falco's lasers can make Sheik's approach a bit difficult. The only thing you can do about this is learn the timing of it and consistently power shield it. This will take time and practice but will be worth it for interrupting Falco's advances and shifting your advance in favor. After stunning Falco with his own laser, he is now open and ready for a quick attack. I prefer a quick crouch canceled down smash into tech punishing, but other avenues are more than open.

Jump canceled grabs, f-airs, n-airs and, yes even a running attack could suffice in approaches to Falco. Yet it is important not to over use any of these for sake of stylistic variation. So it becomes important to focus on a quick, pressured game against Falco, not allowing him to get in his devastating combos. Grab, down smash, f-air, down throw, needle, edge guard. These should be your main points of focus while playing Falco. Your needles become much more devastating against Falco as opposed to Fox due to his decreased get backs.

Most important in this match up is constant pressure. With the insane combo capabilities of Falco you do not want him to get one hit on you. Grab him, keep him close, don't give him room to laser, and if he does reflect them back at him and close that gap, PRESSURE him. If he shooting you and advancing, get out of the way, because here comes a n-air or worse yet, a pillar shine. This is to be avoided with vigor. Don't give him an opportunity to attack. This match up requires a very aggressive Sheik. Needles will be important in this match but more for sake of keeping him off the stage. Sure, charge your needles and get that quick 17% also when you can but you want to always be close to Falco.

The main focus, if I haven't stressed it enough is Pressure. Pressure Falco with your aresenal of quick, high priority moves. A down throw into a tech chase down smash at low percentages is very effective. Mid percent tilt juggling into grabs are a must. Set up your f-airs accordingly and keep them varied with approach styles and jumping movements. The worse thing that can happen often does happen when playing against Falco, so don't give them the opportunity.

If you play against Falco correctly, it should be a tight competitive match with a great amount of intensity. Combos will not be lacking in this match up, neither will there be a shortage of lasers, grabs, and down smashes. While perhaps not the most entertaining match to watch, it is a testament to ingenuity of Sheik's play style and her ability to play competitively with nearly all characters in the game.

As far as preferred stage selection I like a stage that is not large enough to allow Falco to fully utilize his lazers and is short enough to shorten the distance between each other. My favorite stages against Falco are Yoshi's Story and Battlefield. Yoshi's Story is perfect for quick kills with good needle edge guarding and a very high floor(for quicker deaths). Battlefield has different edges than most stages and makes Falco's over b comeback even more difficult to land.

Obviously Falco is going to have advantage on some of these platforms because of his outrageous combo ability with pillar shines, but you should be able to fully DI out of them at a fairly early percentage (given that you are in a combo from 0%, you should be out of it by no more than 30%). Once you are out of his combos, needle down smash and edge guard. Don't let him back on. You are going to want a level with a great horizontal walls. Falco's over smash is outrageous, and if not properly double stick teched, it is extremely detrimental at a relatively low percentage. Just find a big stage, or a really small stage. The in between stages are what really kill Sheik. For this match, never stop moving, ever.

Videos 10/22

http://youtube.com/watch?v=6EsdDzD0eIg
Match 1

http://youtube.com/watch?v=t5TWQ-DdhO8
Match 2

http://youtube.com/watch?v=iY7t7RHK3Ro
Match 3

http://youtube.com/watch?v=upVBBFIvDPA
Match 4

http://youtube.com/watch?v=WAuqBesDsqU
Match 5

http://youtube.com/watch?v=edco3L0Ef44
Match 6

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Fc478bbTgxs
Match 7

Marth- A very interesting match up for both characters. While it is considered to be in favor of Sheik, an equally skilled Marth can quite easily gain the upper hand. This match requires constant pressure on your part and the necessity to play a tight, fast game. Needles are important in this match, but not as much as against space animals. Needles mainly are used to stop f-air approaches in this instance.

Tilts: This match at low percentages is Sheiks. A quick grab into a down throw followed by up tilt or forward tilt (depending on their DI) can quickly lead into another quick jump canceled grab. Repeat as needed. This is a very efficient way to build up some percent with relatively low risk. Once you get to about 40% Marth will start to DI out of the range of your tilts. Now it is time to begin the next step of your attacks.

The U-air against Marth is phenomenal. Due to the speed of which it can be preformed and repeated in the air, then fast falled l canceled and repeated is amazing. Juggling Marth becomes a simple task of following their DI and landing a U-air. This will usually bring them to somewhere in the range of 60-80%. Then they will get in a f-air or two, or maybe even a d-air. This is nothing to worry about, DI away from his attacks and get to the ground quickly. The remainder of this stock should be played much closer to the ground.

Now you may ask, well what about Marth's f-smash. Well it is time to discuss it. Due to its ungodly reach and strength of a "tipper" it is truly a killer. At low percentages, Sheik can be sent hurtling threw the air and then effectively edge guarded. What do you do, Avoid the f-smash. This is not easy, but attainable. Learn the distance, timing and situations in which the f-smash would appear to be applicable. Chances are that if you are playing a fairly competent Marth they won't be just throwing them out there (well most competent players anyways).

So how do you accomplish this? Stay Close. Pressure on Marth ensures the following: decreased knock back from the f-smash if he does hit you due to the proximity of the hilt in relation to you. Allows you to get jump canceled grabs in to effectively start combos that should lead into a f-air off the edge and edge guarding of your choice. Depending on their angle of which they are hit off at numerous edge guarding tactics may be applied. Sheiks speed of moves will for the most part beat out Marths, so long as you stay close and don't let Marth take control of the Match.

Once you have control of Marth off of the stage, their are several options. Some very applicable ones are as follows. If they are approaching at about a 45 degree angle or there abouts, a drop down back air is always effective (assuming that they have used their jump or you are quick enough to pull it off). Another very efficient edge guard is using the n-air to stop approaches from directly below you. It usually knocks them back pretty sufficiently and is one of the better edge guards against Marth.

Stage selection is always an issue in most matches, but I like a stage where minor mistakes are not punishable to their fullest extent. With that in mind Yoshi's Story is not one of my favorites against marth, nor is Battlefield. Fountain of Dreams is more or less beneficial to both parties. Of the neutral stages, I like Final Destination and Dream Land the most due to their large stages, and forgiving edges. Also they are very easy to edge tech on against the f-smash.

In summation, Allowing Marth to take control of the match will result in the following: Spacing by Marth which leads to f-smashes shffl'd f-airs and more f-smashes. In summary don't let them control the pace.

Captain Falcon- For a long time I hated this match up entirely. As sheik I could not figure out a way to out play my opposing Falcon, usually no matter how poor their play was. There were just some basic elements of Captain Falcon that I did not understand. Recently, after some practice and play against very good Falcons, I have come up with a general strategy against them. This includes most basic elements against most characters, but with a little more frequency of some specific moves.

The N-air. This is one of the most effective moves against Captain Falcons shffl'd everything. It out priortizes on almost all occasions. Don't get anxious and try and run in on these dash dancing falcons, you will get yourself combo'd to death. Instead through some needles at them to break up their flow, and most likely send them into an attack on you. This will most likely be a shffl'd nair, u-air, or if he is feeling lucky he might just through out a d-air or f-air. So expect everything. Even grabs are extremely possible in this situation as they lead into great Falcon combos at mid to high percentages. This wont be a problem as you quickly wip out a short hop fast falled l canceled nair into a quick grab. Once you have the Falcon in a grab, the following situations should be explored.

The tech chase/ tech punish. Tech chasing Falcon is extremely easy even if you are new to it. This is on account of Falcon's extremely slow tech. As a result you will be able to see where he is going and get a jump canceled grab off, get some quick punches in and repeat. As far as tech punishing, the obvious are still very applicable. Down smash, and up smash are still very effective. Down smash can lead into further tech chasing/ tech punishing, which up smashing can lead into up tilt and forward tilt juggling ending in a hefty f-air.

The basic edge guarding and hogging techniques that are applied to most characters can be applied to Falcon. The only difference is that Falcon has a lot of mobility in the air after his up b. This isn't a problem and is pretty predictable, and has an even simpler solution...down smash.

As far as stage selection against Falcons, STAY AWAY FROM FINAL DESTINATION. Final destination is the playground of captain falcon. Here he is free to full hop if he chooses, and he is just going to destroy you in most cases. Other stages where the match up can be iffy is Yoshi Story, this is because the knee also destroys sheik here at unnaturally low percentages. Good stages as far as neutral ones are pretty standard. Play Battlefield, Fountain of Dreams, and Dream Land. They are pretty neutral if not in favor of Sheik.

Overall this match up for me and probably most of you is an extremely mental one. You get yourself into the mindset that one mistake means your death. It very well could be, but there is no reason you can not come back. Sheik is fast, sheik has great priority, and of course, has needles. Do not worry, this match up is more even than you think.

Videos 9/30
Match 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsqY_7rtz2w
Match 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnnLHb9Enlc
 

Shmooguy

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 20, 2002
Messages
2,011
Location
Irvine, CA (SoCal)
What do you think of DK64 against space animals?

I find that yoshi's story isn't such a great stage against fox, he kills you quick enough already. falco is better, but he can also kill you much quicker on that stage. Granted, you can kill them quicker too, but when your main weapon is edgeguarding, wouldn't you rather live longer since you can gimp them at any percentage on any sized stage?

also, while battlefield edges are good for edgeguarding, it's otherwise not such a bad stage for fox and falco. The basic design makes it easy to maneuver and falco in particular can pull off combos with the platforms.

edit: this is cool, btw.
 

brickman

Smash Lord
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Messages
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Answered your question in the main part Shmooguy. I'm not going to say one way or another for yoshi's story for fox. I feel like it is an extremely even stage. Although I will agree with you that Battlefield, edges aside is a good stage for Falco, but there are means to get out of pillar shine combos before 70%.
 

Sinjihn

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 23, 2007
Messages
27
The only problem I feel sheik has against Fox is the blaster, I mean you can avoid it, but if the player is smart enough, he will fire 2 shots and then rush in EXPECTING you to try to sheild or dodge, so will probably dash in for a jc grab, or a wd grab, maybe even a dair shffl or nairshffl. I guess you could just Usmash out of the sheild, or grab yourself at that, but IMO, Falco is a MUCH bigger problem than Fox, because the spike-shine(if the player is good enough at it) will DE-Stroy.
 

brickman

Smash Lord
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Drephen, I'm not going to entirely disagree with you on the point of grab and down smash, but it becomes a bit stale, and somewhat avoidable, to a degree. The lag on a missed, or a single hit of the down smash still has a good amount of lag, and against fast falling characters at a low percent, it is easily punishable.
 

SuperRad

Smash Master
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San Francisco, CA [Sometimes Santa Cruz]
just wondering, what stage do you usually ban against a fox? i usually do Pokemon Stadium because of the low ceiling, but a lot of the times the fox doesn't get a chance to counterpick anyways if you know what i mean <_<
 

Miztik

Smash Master
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Austin, Tx
thanks this is some helpful info now i know what not to do against shiek with marth

YAYUHZZZZZZZZ
 

Aesis

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 16, 2006
Messages
583
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Los Angeles, CA
They're really long, paragraph format is really tedious for people looking for pointers. Then again, I guess the purpose of these write-ups are for inexperienced Sheiks looking for in-depth information. Regardless, I think bullets and short, direct and concise sentence structure would be better.

Just some things that come to mind, I didn't read it but you might want to put these in:

Spaceys:
  • Low percentages, may be better to Dthrow instead of go for the gimp Bthrow off the ledge. Rack up more damage.
  • Tech chasing is essential. Practice this and edgeguarding more than anything. Seriously.
  • Uthrow, Fox DI's forward, JAB, regrab. Look out for the sidedodge against experienced Foxes. Might want to wait and do nothing and see what he does.
  • Running off the stage, throwing out a bair and hitting with your body while a Fox is UpBing usually kills them at +50%
  • Bthrow, shorthop and throw out a Bair if Fox likes to jump back onto the stage at low percentages
  • Dash cancel grabs when tech chasing usually wins
  • Dash attack to USmash kills early
  • Ftilt the recovery and follow with a fair
  • Chain works best at +30%
  • Don't Dsmash too much unless you're Drephen
  • Charge your needles whenever you can and set the pace unless you're Drephen
  • Get on his a$$ and keep pressure up, keep moving, never stop moving
  • Play amazing

    Take my advice I ****

 

brickman

Smash Lord
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Kansas City, MO
I agree. That is a much simpler format for the information. Unfortunately I don't have the time quite yet to go through and making all of my points bullet. But your advice is well received, well at least from me. I have watched some videos of your sheik, and even the older ones are really good. Hopefully I will be able to put up some videos of myself in the coming months and link them to this thread to further display some of my points.
 

brickman

Smash Lord
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The down throw into the down, assuming your friend plays either fox or falco usually only works at higher percents. I think they cant tech the ground due to high damage at around 90% or so. Nonetheless, you should be learning his tech patterns and punishing him with a re-grab to build up some damage, or a down smash if the situation requires it. Up-smash is also an alternative, but that leads into many different situations.
 

onii-chan

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in the most infamous city ever*HOUSTON*
The down throw into the down, assuming your friend plays either fox or falco usually only works at higher percents. I think they cant tech the ground due to high damage at around 90% or so. Nonetheless, you should be learning his tech patterns and punishing him with a re-grab to build up some damage, or a down smash if the situation requires it. Up-smash is also an alternative, but that leads into many different situations.
dude he uses iceclimbers and its immpossible for me sumtimes
 

brickman

Smash Lord
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Aug 11, 2006
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Ice climbers are a very different match up for Sheik, unfortunately I do not have much experience against, them nor do I feel like I could be able to make an informed suggestion to you about this.

What I can do is reference you to a great guide, with the most recent update of course, Ice Climbers.

here is a video by Plairnkk and a link to his guide

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l14EsrF-Gl0

Guide: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=91503

Hope that helps.
 

HAT

Smash Ace
Joined
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Catonsville, MD
Once you have about 70% damage on Fox, your main goal should be to get fox of the edge and keeping him there.
lol. you're silly. bthrow>edgeguard works at any percent. you can wavedash onto the edge to force him to try to use his jump to get on the stage. from there you can punish relentlessly.

my advice for the matchup- don't get hit.. a good fox will combo you for at least 50% damage from a good dair. and learn to smash DI the upairs. .. oh, and avoid shine spikes?

other than that, camp the edge and wait for an opening to throw him the hell off.
 

brickman

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I suppose I agree with parts of your argument, although some areas are easier said then done. Trying to get a fox near the edge without forcing him to do so by simple virtue of knock back on f-air or down smash can be a trying task. I'm just trying to be realistic, although I do often try overly aggressive strategies every once in a while to throw off the fox, this is not without its negative consequences.

"Don't get hit", this is not really advice, haha. Anyway, this match requires such a level of precision, in my opinion, that it is almost frustrating. Yet if you are able to maintain your cool and you space your attacks well, not antagonized by the lazer camping, not falling into the pillar shine u-air combos, you should be alright. Still haven't quite figured out the DI for u-air yet, but I am working on it.

I don't really get shine spiked by fox's and can't really think of the last time I was. Eventually you just get a general feeling about the different approaches and meta approaches and you learn how to anticipate, avoid, and punish.

These are just my feelings on the topic, I am still working hard to better understand and approach the Fox match up myself. It's just a work in progress for me.
 

onii-chan

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in the most infamous city ever*HOUSTON*
Ice climbers are a very different match up for Sheik, unfortunately I do not have much experience against, them nor do I feel like I could be able to make an informed suggestion to you about this.

What I can do is reference you to a great guide, with the most recent update of course, Ice Climbers.

here is a video by Plairnkk and a link to his guide

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l14EsrF-Gl0

Guide: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=91503

Hope that helps.
i checked them out but it sumwut works i got sum kind of upper hand on them
 

BigRick

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Montreal, Canada AKA Real City brrrrrrrrapp!
Drephen, I'm not going to entirely disagree with you on the point of grab and down smash, but it becomes a bit stale, and somewhat avoidable, to a degree. The lag on a missed, or a single hit of the down smash still has a good amount of lag, and against fast falling characters at a low percent, it is easily punishable.
dsmash beats spotdodge
grab beats shield

Seriously, how is this avoidable?

Sheik is too broken **** **** god****it ***** *****

EDIT: oh and X times dash atk combo just *****
 

brickman

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Depending on the length of the dodge of the character you are playing against and what side of sheik they are on are large factors. If they are behind you when you use it it only hits once (correct me if I am wrong here), as opposed to two in the front.

Grab does beat shield, yea I agree with this, I dunno what you want me to do with it, lol.

Dash attack works for some percentage ranges on some characters, but it only works a couple of time depending on their DI (obviously) and tech abilities. I can get 2 dash attacks off at most in a combo, so it isn't that good.

I wont even dignify "Sheik is broken" with a response. :)
 

BigRick

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Yeah dsmash ftw!

Also Sheik's grab beats alot of Falcon's stuff... It's because most of his moves have a slow startup.

That's basically why you noticed that Nair beats his aerials. It's not a true priority thing, what Nair actually does is hit Falcon before the hitbox of his own aerial comes out.

Falcon's aerials, when properly timed/spaced, can trade with or beat almost everything in the game.
 

S0FT

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May 7, 2007
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Why would you need to wave dash into a jump canceled grab? The only reason I could think to do that would be if you dashed after the wave dash but I didnt see that posted.....
 
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