Match Ups | 3.5 Samus General MU Discussion

[pooch182]

I figure, since we don't already seem to have a dedicated thread to discussing every match up that Samus has, it'd be a good idea to make one. It would be nice to have a centralized thread that a player can go to find general summations of how the match up with (insert character name here) should look.

Of course, there will be some disagreements, and our consensus for each match up might not be totally defined, but a little ambiguity is fine when we consider the 'youth' of the meta-game. Spirited debate is encouraged, but I'd also like to keep the general atmosphere of this thread positive and full of open-mindedness and optimism.

I'd like to do a weekly, or possibly bi-weekly focus on one character at a time. In these discussions, I'd like to steal the format that Bryonato has suggested for the Ness thread. Basically, this listed format is written in his words (with some replacements) because I feel like it's a very solid format that will allow for easy and effective communication.

1. Neutral game - How we fair vs. the opposing character in the neutral state of the game. What are our best options during this state? What should we watch out for?
2. Combo Game - What are some of our best combo paths/options vs. the opposing character? What works? What doesn't?
   
3. Edge guarding - What are our best tools for edge guarding the opposing character? Does it work better for us to go offstage or try to cover their options onstage?
   
4. Recovering - What is the best and safest way to get back to the ledge vs. the opposing character? Do we do better recovering high or low? Are there any specific strategies that work well when recovering vs. the opposing character?
5. Stage Choice - What stages do you like vs. the opposing character? Where should we go, and what should we avoid?
6. Match Up Spread - In your opinion, how good is this match up for Samus based on a 20 point scale? For example, is it 35:65 in favor of the opposing character, 60:40 in favor of Samus, etc.
7. Extra stuff - Of course, I encourage you to post about anything else you think about the MU that you don't think the above sections cover. Feel free to talk about any specific scenarios you may have encountered in your own experience vs. the character, character specific tricks and nuances, video footage of you playing the match up with specific examples, etc. Basically anything that will contribute to the discussion in a positive manner, and doesn't tangent and detract from the focus of our discussions.

All general consensuses will be edited into this initial post, with a quick summary of the match up, and then either coupled with a score based on a 20 point scale, or, should we fail to be able to categorize a match up with such metrics, a simple "good" "bad" "free-win" "impossible" sort of score will be offered.

For Week One, I'd like to discuss how well Samus does against Fox. It seems like a solid starting point, because most players have a decent amount of exposure to, and experience against, Fox.

 

[pooch182]

Reserving for whatever.

 

[pooch182]

The neutral game against Fox is a silly one, in my opinion. Obviously, Fox has us beat when it comes to speed, so camping him out isn't the easiest thing to do, especially since he can advance through missile walls with nair and proceed to pressure us. I'm a fan of playing a harassing style against Fox. I space for a mid-range game, far enough where I can feel comfortable using a missile as a means of approach, yet close enough where Fox won't just try to camp SHDL. You need to be very careful with your spacing, because Fox can still waveshine Samus into up-smash, and it really sucks when that happens. Samus obviously has a far reaching, fast f-tilt, and a great jab to annoy Fox while staying safe from anything that the Fox doesn't have to over commit to. At this mid-range, if I can throw a missile that forces Fox into shield, I'll usually go for a grab. From my experience, down throw is the choice at high percents, but up-throw is the optimal throw for low and mid-percents. An up-throw leads into a relatively free sweet-spot back air, or even a falling dair into fair for good percent. Should I find myself to be pressured in shield, I usually will throw out a Screw Attack OoS, because I'm super familiar with it, and it's a relatively safe option when I'm underneath platforms. I also recognize how amazing fire up-smash OoS is, especially considering Fox's fall speed.

Speaking of Fox's fall speed, fire up-smash is a huge tool in this MU. You can chain multiple up-smashes into each other, especially if the Fox doesn't DI well. Should the Fox DI to a platform, it's not difficult to cover that platform with a fair, which puts on heavy damage as well. If they have no platform to escape to, and you can react to their DI well, you can end the string with a sweet spot back air, which can kill, or at the very least make Fox sad with his current situation.

As far as edge-guarding goes, it's rather dependent on where the Fox is, and which stage we're playing on. If the Fox is recovering high, I'll usually throw out a homing-missile, followed with a power missile. Inexperienced Fox players will usually go for an immediate Firefox after getting hit by the homing missile, which almost always lines them up for a free line-drive hit from the power missile. Should Fox be recovering low, I tend to just grab the ledge, sniping a sweet spot. If he's recovering low, but close enough to reach the stage, I'll just drop ledge into a nair. Covering a platform isn't the most difficult option for Samus. Not only do you have missiles to force a platform recovery, but you can also just space well. Space yourself for an up-tilt that will cover a sweet-spot to ledge. At this point, all you need to do is react by up-tilting the ledge recovery, or jumping and nairing the attempted platform recovery. Simple.

When recovering, I find that it's much safer to opt for as high of a recovery as possible (within reason). Fox obviously has shine cheese that a fast enough player can get should you need to tether from far away. Rising grapple is a great option, as it goes higher than Screw Attack, and also has less landing lag (correct me if that isn't right). Invisible rising grapple is nice on some stages, mainly because it provides a solid counter-edge guard, and we can feel safer going to the ledge. Tether canceling into Screw Attack still feels relatively foreign to me, but I acknowledge its versatility, and when timed properly, it can turn an edge-guarding situation around completely. From the ledge, you've got plenty of options. Be wary of CCing, because fairing a Fox from ledge at low percents can lead to a bad time. Low-riders are a great option to occupy your opponent for long enough to safely reset to neutral. Aerial interrupt or no-impact landings into f-tilt are a great way of knocking Fox away from you so you can make up some ground on the stage. The only issue here is your lack of invincibility (especially in the case of no impact landing). If you want to look like a God, and the ignorant Fox is spacing properly for you to do so, you can ledge dash into a pivot up-tilt. Doing this not only makes all the girls wet, but also pops Fox into the air for a nair, or if you catch him in a SH, leads to him being pushed off stage.

Stage choice is definitely dependent upon both players' styles. I don't mind bringing Fox to Melee Yoshi's, because I love the platform movement, and I can do missile things. Also, Samus can cover the bottom two platforms with up-tilt or up-smash. In all honesty, I feel like the best stage choice in this MU is FoD. Fountain gives us plenty of ceiling space to take a lot of percents, the platforms are awesome, and there's a decent amount of stage to move around and maintain the mid-range spacing that I mentioned previously. Generally, anywhere that gives us a high ceiling with a large stage will work well. Personally, I'm not the biggest fan of Dreamland in this MU, because Fox can camp lasers, and he can actually get a lot of mileage out of the top platform. Will I go there? Sure. But it won't be my first choice. If you're looking for stages to avoid, I'd suggest staying away from any place without platforms, because Fox will be able to put on a lot of laser percents, and he can freely move around and keep you in the air when he hits you.

Overall, I like this match up, and I would consider it to be in Samus' favor. I'd wager to say it's 60/40, which might be a generous rating, but from my experiences, that's what I've seen. It's difficult for Fox to juggle Samus, and with her upgraded arsenal, she can put on a lot of percent and punish sloppy shield-pressure even harder than she did in Melee.

In case it wasn't evident in my writing, I heavily prefer plasma beam for this match up. It just does a better job of doing big damage, and I feel as though the kill moves that ice mode offers isn't really necessary for Samus to use against Fox.

 

[Chevy]

Wavedash out of shield is super important in this, jab placement, tilts, etc. I personally don't believe that Samus can possibly have a good matchup against Fox in Melee, just because Fox has a perfect neutral game, and can kill you with his frame 1 move at 70%, negating our supposed survivability. A lot of this carries over, so it's still really difficult if the Fox is smart. Maybe I'm just biased because the only Fox I ever play is Silent Wolf. You can punish pretty hard, and edge-guarding is very effective, but it's difficult to ever land a hit. Tricking Fox into reflector is really good in neutral, until they catch on and just start using better options. Missile->zair to knock out of shine, or missile->d-air to punish shine is good.

 

[Litt]

Wavedash out of shield is super important in this, jab placement, tilts, etc. I personally don't believe that Samus can possibly have a good matchup against Fox in Melee, just because Fox has a perfect neutral game, and can kill you with his frame 1 move at 70%, negating our supposed survivability. A lot of this carries over, so it's still really difficult if the Fox is smart. Maybe I'm just biased because the only Fox I ever play is Silent Wolf. You can punish pretty hard, and edge-guarding is very effective, but it's difficult to ever land a hit. Tricking Fox into reflector is really good in neutral, until they catch on and just start using better options. Missile->zair to knock out of shine, or missile->d-air to punish shine is good.

Sir please don't speak for melee samuses anywhere ;p, samus punshes fox so hard and has a response in very aspect of the neutral game, that match up is 50-50. As for this entire guide, its a nice idea in theory but was made because someone likes to talk and needs some help in the fox match up, may I refer you to... http://smashboards.com/forums/samus.72/ .... if you want to find info about how the basics are performed in this MU, what you should look out for and EVERYTHING you can punish. Defensively samus has improved (offensively not so much in the neutral game) so you have even more options now to add onto the ones proven to work in the past, use your brain and add the new ones in for your own style and dont start from skratch trying to make a guide for a character that has already been downloaded to the melee meta.

 

[Chevy]

PM Samus is not Melee Samus. A new matchup guide is entirely appropriate, new tools changes optimum plays quite a bit. And not every PM player plays Melee, so they shouldn't have to wander into a board for a different game to find out-dated matchup advice.

 

[pooch182]

Barbie, I can see where you're coming from, but I just can't agree with your idea here. To actively try and stifle conversation and debate does nothing but hinder our meta from growing. Primarily, I play Melee, and I slay Fox players that are at and slightly above my skill level. I know how the MU works, and there are obviously old applications from Melee that translate very well to PM. At the same time, Melee and PM Samus are very different, and not all players who come to this guide are familiar with, nor do they want to be overly familiar with, a Melee-centric style of Samus play.

I appreciate the link to the Melee threads, I've spent months lurking those boards. They've been a huge help, but I've also had to figure stuff out on my own for PM. That's the point of this guide.

If you don't feel like generating any decent conversation that can spawn new thoughts and ideas, then it's perfectly fine for you to read through this thread and have your opinions. What I would ask of you, though, is to keep said opinions to yourself if they aren't going to help us develop new ideas.

 

[Litt]

PM Samus is not Melee Samus. A new matchup guide is entirely appropriate, new tools changes optimum plays quite a bit. And not every PM player plays Melee, so they shouldn't have to wander into a board for a different game to find out-dated matchup advice.

Chevy I would honestly love to play you sometime, you have netplay?

Barbie, I can see where you're coming from, but I just can't agree with your idea here. To actively try and stifle conversation and debate does nothing but hinder our meta from growing. Primarily, I play Melee, and I slay Fox players that are at and slightly above my skill level. I know how the MU works, and there are obviously old applications from Melee that translate very well to PM. At the same time, Melee and PM Samus are very different, and not all players who come to this guide are familiar with, nor do they want to be overly familiar with, a Melee-centric style of Samus play.

I appreciate the link to the Melee threads, I've spent months lurking those boards. They've been a huge help, but I've also had to figure stuff out on my own for PM. That's the point of this guide.

If you don't feel like generating any decent conversation that can spawn new thoughts and ideas, then it's perfectly fine for you to read through this thread and have your opinions. What I would ask of you, though, is to keep said opinions to yourself if they aren't going to help us develop new ideas.

And I can ask you to keep all opinions to yourself period.... but just because I do so, doesnt mean you will listen, we both know that I am going to respond to the crap you spewed out. I am simply stating that samus as a character has not changed that drastically in an offensive means in any way, the way samus has changed can only change the already established neutral game by 2 means, in morph ball, and spacing with zairs, ledgeguarding fox has not changed, fire based combos have not changed, out of shield options have not changed, missiles have not changes with regard to how fox deals with. The only two changes in meta can then be applied as you see fit in neutral, samus being a rolling crouch cancel macheine, or keeping fox at a distance and warding off laser camping with zair.... everything else is the same in this match up, fox hasnt changed at all, and its not that im squelching change in meta because the only things that have changed are the previously mentioned tools, which in accordance with the rest of samus's established metagame makes this match up pretty much set in stoned already, give or take a few minor things. So no a whole new match up thread is not necessary for a this character by any means, if anything just add to the guide the brawl character MUs that don't have a melee counter part strategy yet.

 

[Chevy]

Fire based combos have changed, fire f-air links more reliably, fire up-smash is usable and is brutal on fast-fallers. Grab is much more reliable too. Out of shield options have changed now that we have a decent up-smash. Missile follow-ups are different with the addition of zair to beat out reflector. This, plus crawl and zair and having information in a spot where it's available to those that seek it is well worth the forum space.

Yes I have netplay, if you want to play.

 

[pooch182]

We can cover a Brawl character next discussion, but I'd still like to start with Fox. The idea here is to get participation from Samus players. Reading and responding in this thread can only help players grow and learn, regardless of there being similar information in the Melee boards.

Also, notice that you have already offered new things to the Fox MU that aren't in Melee. You're adding to this discussion in a very argumentative manner, but at least you're still adding something.

 

[Litt]

Fire based combos have changed, fire f-air links more reliably, fire up-smash is usable and is brutal on fast-fallers. Grab is much more reliable too. Out of shield options have changed now that we have a decent up-smash. Missile follow-ups are different with the addition of zair to beat out reflector. This, plus crawl and zair and having information in a spot where it's available to those that seek it is well worth the forum space.

Yes I have netplay, if you want to play.

Right there, links more reliably... in melee you can get consistent at linking it... it just took practice and actual competence as a player. Fire up smash is useable in melee, just in very specific instances, and it is also burtal on fast fallers like falcon and ganon (yes I know ganon technically isnt a fast faller). Grab is much less reliable now due to its lacking range, in melee you could jump cancel it and it would be plenty long for anything you needed, and there was a grab hitbox on her canon so the dash grabs are just as reliable as any other grab in the game if catching an opponent in shield, with it also covering the side dodge option. Umm not really, the missile follow up with reflector would bair out the reflector and catch them stuck in it... same thing but you are doing it preemptively with the only of the 2 changes to the MU i mentioned.........I just listed the two spaces where to use both... anywhere else is pretty much going to in effective for a rare mixup... which should be in a random post someone because it... is spec knowledge. Im not saying no don't do this, go ahead put in the work for something that is already out there and organize, im just saying your efforts are fruitless and better spent elsewhere exploring match ups that need delving into.

 

[Chevy]

You can also get consistent at SDI out of f-air, same for up-smash. Grab is faster, and that's what matters, it's reactably slow in Melee, not that it doesn't have it's uses, but overall it's much better in PM. Missile->zair guarantees a zair and a missile hit if they stay in reflector, it's good when you can't necessarily reach him for a d-air or b-air punish.

 

[pooch182]

Seeing that there's a bit of stagnation going on in this thread (and the boards in general), maybe we should discuss a different character. Does anybody have any suggestions/requests for who we should talk about next?

 

[Chevy]

Pick a current "broken" character maybe?

 

[Naggy]

Can we discuss sonic? I have a lot of trouble with that mu

 

[Narpas_sword]

press down.
then press B.

do that every time sonic spins.

when he hits a bomb, ftilt him, or fsmash/dsmash

Fire missiles once hes off stage.

That is all

 

[Chevy]

That's good, but realistically, it's not a catch-all. Even random Sonics will luck out and fly under a bomb sometimes, and he has decent aerials to jump out of spin and hit with.

 

[pooch182]

I've only had consistent practice against one Sonic, so I don't have much to say about the match up. I have, however, found that whenever he approached me with homing attack or just sloppy aerial approaches in general, I could beat him out with up-tilt. When I played against Aion at LTC2, he would constantly go for spring into dair, and he was telegraphing it pretty hard. It took about 3 minutes to figure out his movement patterning for that approach, and then it was a simple matter of WD back d-tilt or d-smash to punish.

Bombs are a great way to interrupt any sort of high-speed grounded character (my practice partner is an Ike main). I've also found that using homing missiles to interrupt Sonic's recovery is the easiest way to clean up a stock. A few homing missiles, grab ledge, and if he can still reach stage, just ledge drop nair.

Sonic doesn't seem to have much priority on his attacks, so I feel like it wouldn't be a bad idea to just throw out DAFTs or even just boost ball around to clank with and then punish him. I've got no idea what combos or grabs happen with this character, I need more experience with playing him first.

 

[Naggy]

The sonic i play regularly against gets an absurd amount of kills off the top. He has so many hit confirms that lead into upair chains and can even follow you to the top with his spring into a finisher. High pressure sonic players are just really hard to deal with in my experience because you can't cover all of his options at once. From what I can tell it's really important to stay on the ground, but that's just general samus 101 isn't it?

 

[pooch182]

As far as stages go, I really like going to Fountain against Sonic. It's not the biggest place in the world, so Sonic isn't totally free to run train on us, and the ceiling is nice and high to prevent early kills off the top.

Also, just as a common fact regardless of who you're playing as: stay in the middle of the stage if Sonic gets stuck under smashville or other similar stages. Everybody knows about it, not nearly enough people actually do it.

 

[Litt]

http://smashboards.com/threads/samus-vs-sonic.352309/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e-LwzWwGiU

And really... this MU is broken for sonic if you dont just spam bombs and retreat... if you do, its prob 65-35 for samus, if not, its 70-30 for sonic

 

[Litt]

just make sure to get the hell away from the UP throws and if you know one is going to hit... sdi like crazy (how i accidently pressed the start button in my match against wizzy :/) lol, and when coming down, fade away fast fall up air, nothing sonic can really do to get to you in time.

 

[Chevy]

If you think he's gonna approach in the air, nair is fairly safe. If he's on the groundIf you ever get out of hitstun during up-air juggles, do not try to hit him out. His up-air is ridiculously disjointed. I prefer air-dodge->zair->fast fall to escape juggles.

Additionally, I don't know how many Sonics know about/use this, but he can footstool out of his up-B. This means that you need to roll a little bit earlier if he's aiming for a sweetspot because he can footstool off your head even if you're invincible. You will be fine, but he'll make it back. Sonic can also air-dodge out of up-B if he cancels it with a b-air at the beginning, so watch out for that.

 

[Naggy]

@ Litt i remember watching your match against wizzy awhile back, but looking back at it again that edge guard on warioware at 4:25 was beautiful. I definitely need to be thinking about bomb applications in this MU i think. additionally, i didn't know about falling upair. Gonna have to use that as well

@ Chevy fast fall zair is really smart although you do have to commit to it. Do you have any advice for working on the mental aspect of samus play in terms of getting reads and mix ups?

 

[Chevy]

My mental game is pretty lacking to be honest. I usually get reads off of pattern recognition(or just whiff).Mix-ups are an extension of that, condition your opponent to respond one way, and counter to beat it. The easiest illustrations for Samus are bomb on shield and missile approach mix-ups. I urge you to try waveland bomb as a platform mix-up. You can usually get a grab if they don't expect it, and if they react to the grab you can opt not to waveland and instead d-air to punish, or bomb again.
Point being, just do different things sometimes.

 

[Litt]

@ Litt i remember watching your match against wizzy awhile back, but looking back at it again that edge guard on warioware at 4:25 was beautiful. I definitely need to be thinking about bomb applications in this MU i think. additionally, i didn't know about falling upair. Gonna have to use that as well

@ Chevy fast fall zair is really smart although you do have to commit to it. Do you have any advice for working on the mental aspect of samus play in terms of getting reads and mix ups?

hahah thanks bud, first time i think my play has been called beautiful before xDD, but really the bombs samus has in this game are her most useful tool, because they ignore shields, which is unheard of for an attack in any smash bros game that isnt a grab

 

[Avro-Arrow]

As others have said, his priority sucks, plus the knockback on his spin dash his really low, so crouch-cancelled dsmashes are nice. The edgeguards are easy too. I find they normally try for a ledge sweetspot with the spring, so you can cover that easily.

In fact, I play as Sonic. One of his best options to get back on stage after grabbing edge is a ledge-hopped fair, or other aerial attack so you'd be pretty safe to expect and intercept it.

 

[Narpas_sword]

Not to shy away from the sonic discussion too much.... but i want to talk quickly about peach.
*shudder*

Now, i hate this matchup in Melee, mainly because i have terrible DI and CC habits (any tips to help train DI would be appreciated, but that's another story, maybe PM them to me)

Anyway, got a 'grudge match' with an old melee rival coming up (peach player), and its a PM match.
So, i was wondering what your guys opinions are on using ice in this matchup?

Other than normal melee stuff, I plan to try and snuff his turnip pulls / throws with Zair, which should be immensely helpful.
He plays a pretty defensive Peach, my main downfall is that i get annoyed and go too offensive, but I've worked on that a lot with other players.

But yea, im pretty comfortable using ice in other matchups (i use it vs zelda/sheik a lot), just haven't had any xp with it vs peach, and not sure if i should just go in ice clubbing or test the fire waters first =p

Advantage would be that he doesnt play PM much and the ice would be unfamiliar.

Thoughts?

 

[Chevy]

Ice is great! Fair->fair->fair can work on Peach, she's the perfect weight to just get destroyed by it. It also out-ranges her aerials and stops float-shenanigans. Also air-dodge->catch turnip->zair is a thing. Learn to aerial glide toss her turnips if she's chucking them off stage at you and you're feeling like a bad-ass. If he's playing defensively, remember who you're playing as; charge shot, shoot many missiles. I think the Peach matchup is solidly in Samus' favor in PM.

 

[Narpas_sword]

Cheers guys (got info via PM too)

think ill probably stick with ice, it's sounding good.

Lol, like the AGT (i secondary Toon link), Samus gets a huge boost from it. i caught a Rob-Top once offstage and used it to get back, was epic.

 

[ph00tbag]

I've always felt more Sami need to use more missiles against Peach. In both games. She's slow both in the air and on the ground, so you can force a lot of specific responses out of her, and just react.

Don't think you can bombjump off of turnips anymore in PM, though.

 

[Litt]

Not to shy away from the sonic discussion too much.... but i want to talk quickly about peach.
*shudder*

Now, i hate this matchup in Melee, mainly because i have terrible DI and CC habits (any tips to help train DI would be appreciated, but that's another story, maybe PM them to me)

Anyway, got a 'grudge match' with an old melee rival coming up (peach player), and its a PM match.
So, i was wondering what your guys opinions are on using ice in this matchup?

Other than normal melee stuff, I plan to try and snuff his turnip pulls / throws with Zair, which should be immensely helpful.
He plays a pretty defensive Peach, my main downfall is that i get annoyed and go too offensive, but I've worked on that a lot with other players.

But yea, im pretty comfortable using ice in other matchups (i use it vs zelda/sheik a lot), just haven't had any xp with it vs peach, and not sure if i should just go in ice clubbing or test the fire waters first =p

Advantage would be that he doesnt play PM much and the ice would be unfamiliar.

Thoughts?

This match up becomes one move for samus... running jump cancel upsmash... wait for peach to go in the air... repeat... if peach doesnt approach... zair or homing missiles, if you are feeling confident jab pressure her shield to get a read on her patterns OoS for a punish... thats it MU is boring and broken now, just dont CC or go in morph ball, gl

 

[Narpas_sword]

yea, i think the thing ill have the most problem with is the 'don't CC' lol

god damn habits =(

you meaning plasma or ice upsmash?

 

[Litt]

yea, i think the thing ill have the most problem with is the 'don't CC' lol

god damn habits =(

you meaning plasma or ice upsmash?

ice up smash... if peach is just floating in neutral, just run up and do it... it will force her to stay grounded or go even higher... if she goes higher... she is a sitting duck for ice fair, and if she goes lower than you just need to beat her in neutral on the ground and not CC

 

[Narpas_sword]

think im gonna tape a toothpick over my control stick so i can't CC =p

 

[pooch182]

Let's try to keep our discussions organized each week, so this isn't a confusing resource in the future. Speaking of the future, I'm debating whether or not we should continue to discuss MUs, or wait until 3.5/4.0 to discuss.

If anybody is looking to discuss a character, I feel like Link is a good topic for discussion. He's a pretty difficult MU because of his passive shield, disjoints, zair, and of course, output of projectiles.

 

[YourOpinionIs]

Anyone have advice for Mario and Mewtwo?

 

[ph00tbag]

Mario - Learn to powershield. Also you can literally just walk forward and ftilt his fireballs. If he has two, you can probably utilt them. Outside of fireballs you outrange exactly all of his stuff.

Mewtwo - Email your local PMBR member to ask about nerfing Mewtwo.

 

[pooch182]

As an attempt to stay on topic for a specific character each week (which was literally ignored the first post after requesting it), I'm going to go ahead and talk about as much of this MU as I know about.

1) First and foremost, Link has a mean projectile game. The ability to have a steady output of coverage allows for the Link to stay still and react to any poor options we may choose. This is evidenced by play from Lazarond and Aerolink. A patient, campy Link will win, and he'll win hard. From what I've gathered, the objective of this MU is to close the gap on Link and force him into shield. He's got a slow jump squat, a tether, and his UpB is a fluid hitbox, meaning that if it's shielded, you can just go in and punish while he's still in the animation. His out of shield options are far from stellar, but so is Samus' ability to pressure shield well.

Once the gap is closed, all I can think to do is to jab pressure and WD behind Link to mix him up and bait something. Taking him to smaller stages gives sort of an advantage as it forces us to play up close. Missiles lose to all of his projectiles, as well as his nair. Not to mention, a bomb will beat full charge shot, due to bombs having a hurt box (I believe this is why Sheik's needles did the same in Melee). Any projectiles that manage to get past a Link's defenses can still be negated by his passive shield.

2) As far as combo games go, I've found that landing an d-tilt can lead to huge percents. For example, if I'm pressuring Link in shield and poke him with d-tilt on a stage with platforms, I can up-air him to push him onto a platform, which can lead for a free fair. Overall that's like 30+ percent with one combo in fire. Ice beam also works exceptionally well in this MU, because fair is nice to throw out while dropping through platforms, and up smash can beat out a sloppy dair approach if timed well. Also, Link falls into the category of easy follow ups out of d-throw. You can d-throw up smash or SH fair to put on damage and get free positional advantage. Missile pressuring should be used sparingly. Most Link mains that I've had experience with are completely aware of how ineffective the constant missile game is against them, but having a few barrages can catch them off guard and lead to big damage, especially if Link has his back facing you.

3) When it comes to edge-guarding, Link is a dumb character. Until they hopefully put some sort of decay on AGT, your best bet is to throw homing missiles down range and then threaten ledge with your back facing it, depending on where Link is. If you know that he has to tether, and he's recovering relatively low, you can opt to either hold ledge and try to convert off of it, or be fast and drop zone nair to take the stock. If he needs to UpB, just hold ledge and wait for him to touch stage. It's relatively similar to edge-guarding Sheik in Melee, in a lot of ways. Hold ledge, get up and down smash, and repeat edge guarding.

4) For recovering against Link, the higher you can recover, the better. The lower, the better. Basically, never recover close to even with the ledge. Link has a lot of projectiles, and he's more than content with launching arrows toward you if you're horizontally even with the stage. Boomerang also covers slight angles both upwards and downwards, and can lead to a fair which can kill. Bombs have their uses, but they aren't as devastating as the other two projectiles, so choosing options where that's Link's best choice is optimal, in my experience.

5) As previously mentioned, I really feel like smaller stages are beneficial in this match up. Both characters are relatively heavy, and so big stages benefit both equally in that sense, but Link's dominant projectile game in terms of both offense and defense are too great to deal with. Personally, I like to take Link to places like FoD, because a higher ceiling benefits me more than it does him, and the blast zones aren't the widest. Yoshi's is also doable, especially against a projectile heavy Link player, where Fly Guys will interrupt his projectile game heavily. The trade off is a low ceiling, where Samus will die to dair and up-air relatively early. I definitely don't like going to Smashville or FD, because Link seems to just dominate Samus on flat stages. Any advice on stage choice would be appreciated, as I'm still relatively foggy on which stage is the optimal choice in this MU.

6) This match up, in my eyes, is very favorable for Link. I'd wager to say it's at least 65/35, if not better. Link just wins with his projectile game, and it's difficult to deal with his disjoints. Once the gap is closed, it's easier, but closing the gap is not an easy feat.

7) Use your PM cheese in this MU. Crawling makes us small and hard to hit with projectiles, and boost ball is a great way to cross up Link safely. Zair also beats out his projectiles (bomb is weird), and has a longer range than Link's zair. Be careful of Link's zair, though, because it can draw you in, and it can lead to jab up-tilt, and then Link can do dumb Link things to us.

That's all I've got for this one. I'm not the most well versed in this MU, and would love to hear how you guys see the MU.

 

[Chevy]

I've only played a few Links, but 65:35 seems way skewed. I feel that after you land the first z-air you just control neutral, just have to make sure not to get trapped in a boomerang/arrow barrage. I've never seen Gimpyfish really practice Link, but here's a match I guess: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzmDXApj5tc. He plays Link game 2.