Match Up Thread Export - Lucas

[Noobicidal]

Also, the only recovery moves I know of that lucas has are his PK thunder recovery and that zappy super high jumping PK fire (Which I'm pretty sure requires a jump to use). Knowing the names and the functionality could help.

Tether, PKT2, wave-bounce PK Fire, and Magnet Pulls.

 

[Maniclysane]

Tether, PKT2, wave-bounce PK Fire, and Magnet Pulls.

Eh. I don't really know what to say to those. Tether + Magnet pulls sound like they would be really good for horizontal recovery.

I don't think Lucas's tether acts like a zair, right? Edgehogging would be a pretty good option against horizontal recovery, and if he recovers vertically we can hop off the ledge and just hit him away.

 

[T-block]

PK Fire isn't the problem when we're trying to approach though, and it isn't the reason we have to approach either. I know what you're saying, but I don't see why we should base our stage choices around PK Fire, when there are better things to CP for. I was actually thinking RC might be a good choice - thoughts on that?

Maniclysane, d-air can lead to d-tilt, and if you miss the tech, the d-tilt can lead to a u-smash/f-smash. Grabs are fairly rare from Lucas, true, but if we're approaching, his pivot grab is a viable and dangerous option to watch out for.

EDIT: No, his z-air doesn't have a hitbox if that's what you mean. Zap Jump + Magnet Pull gives him a trajectory that's basically impossible to punish unless you predict it. The horizontal boost from Magnet Pull is definitely significant, as is the vertical boost from Zap Jump - have you even seen them done? =\

 

[Maniclysane]

Maniclysane, d-air can lead to d-tilt, and if you miss the tech, the d-tilt can lead to a u-smash/f-smash. Grabs are fairly rare from Lucas, true, but if we're approaching, his pivot grab is a viable and dangerous option to watch out for.

EDIT: No, his z-air doesn't have a hitbox if that's what you mean. Zap Jump + Magnet Pull gives him a trajectory that's basically impossible to punish unless you predict it. The horizontal boost from Magnet Pull is definitely significant, as is the vertical boost from Zap Jump - have you even seen them done? =\

It's not impossible to punish. You can't even do that unless you haven't used your second jump. All it takes is an fair or two, or a foot stool and all the sudden Lucas loses his "Safe" recovery.

And of course I have. My mind ran a blank and I simply asked what the other two were.

 

[Noobicidal]

I know what you're saying, but I don't see why we should base our stage choices around PK Fire, when there are better things to CP for. I was actually thinking RC might be a good choice - thoughts on that?

I'm not basing the CP on PK Fire alone. The fact that the stage hinders it just seemed like a nice incentive for going there, along with the stage's natural characteristics.

As for RC, I referenced it in the OP, albeit without an actual write up for it. It's pretty much assumed that for almost every match up, RC is one of our best counter pick stages.

 

[~Nasty~]

No Jigglypuff player, will EVER get hit by the tiny and low hitbox dtilt has. Even if we did, the hitstun is so low I'm sure even an average Jigglypuff could rest through it.

We have Dair to Dtilt lock if you miss the tech. If it's not enough to lock you we can always Dair to Dtilt once and then Grab or Jab. If we are standing next to you we can Jab 2x and then dtilt once and Jab again. We have what, a frame 2 jab? You'd get hit by it but it's not that threatening.. just does a little damage that's all.


I would say the cooldown on Lucas grabs make dthrow less than reliable, I doubt ftilt really has the knockback to kill Jigglypuff btw, I think ftilt would be better used as a spacer than a killer.

This statement i lol'd at, except for the very last part. Our dthrow kills jiggs at around 140% w/ good DI iirc. And to get that grab all we have to do is pivot grab. If we whiff a pivot grab i am sure we have enough time to buffer a sheild.

Ftilt is used for spacing which a lot of Lucas mains will use it for. However if we don't use it for spacing or it's fresh it has crazy knockback that will kill jiggs at surprisingly lower percents, especially with poor DI.

Also, the only recovery moves I know of that lucas has are his PK thunder recovery and that zappy super high jumping PK fire (Which I'm pretty sure requires a jump to use). Knowing the names and the functionality could help.

Oh and if you footstool Lucas he can still zap jump as long as he didn't use his double jump before hand. I really doubt you played any lucas that is of somewhat notability based off your analysis of the MU.

 

[Maniclysane]

Please learn to multiquote. It's difficult enough to read the context of your post, let alone the mess you've left it in.

We have Dair to Dtilt lock if you miss the tech. If it's not enough to lock you we can always Dair to Dtilt once and then Grab or Jab. If we are standing next to you we can Jab 2x and then dtilt once and Jab again. We have what, a frame 2 jab? You'd get hit by it but it's not that threatening.. just does a little damage that's all.

We won't miss the tech. Your Dair is a multihit move, meaning we have plenty of time to DI up (And out of the spiking hitbox), or prepare to tech. I wouldn't be surprised if we could rest you out of Dair too.

This statement i lol'd at, except for the very last part. Our dthrow kills jiggs at around 140% w/ good DI iirc. And to get that grab all we have to do is pivot grab. If we whiff a pivot grab i am sure we have enough time to buffer a sheild.

It's a less than reliable killing move. Don't act like at 140 we recklessly get into grabbing range. Whether or not the grab is a pivot grab or not. Buffering a shield won't save you from a grab either.

Ftilt is used for spacing which a lot of Lucas mains will use it for. However if we don't use it for spacing or it's fresh it has crazy knockback that will kill jiggs at surprisingly lower percents, especially with poor DI.

No ftilt will kill Jigglypuff player at low percents. Any main of a character as light as Jigglypuff will be good at DI. Otherwise they shouldn't be playing the character.

Please, calm down before you point fingers on who, and who doesn't have experience.

 

[~Nasty~]

First of all you can't say you guys won't miss the tech. I'm sure you'd get hit by it at least once. And yes you can DI up and away that's fine. We wouldn't be able to punish you directly afterwards. And do u mean rest us out of your Dair? The only way you can rest us out of your Dair is if it trips.

Secondly, i understand no one will start playing recklessly at killing percents. I was just stating that if we did get that grab, you would lose a stock. Also if we did buffer the shield and you grabbed us none of your throws kill us till high percents.

Lastly, i agree that no one should be dieing at a low percent from Ftilt, i was just stating that it can kill and that it does have some surprising knockback.

I wasn't angry w/ my post i was just simply pointing out things that i disagreed with and told you what the options were that lucas has.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Hai guys. GR>Rest 100-0 Jigglypuff. Next MU. Done trolling.

Basically what Nasty is saying about F-tilt is that it's one of our back-up kill moves. What we really use the kill you around 70-80ish is primarily F-smash or D-smash. But we'll also use D-air>D-tilt lock (although, as you should really try DI'ing out, but you still take 20 damage from it). After that, if you live longer, we'll be trying to hit you with F-tilt, F-air, U-air and Pivot Grabs (for the D-throw).

 

[T-block]

I just played this matchup. F-tilt raaaapes. What is it, like... frame 4?

@Manic: If Jiggs is forced to approach, pivot grab is a very real danger. If you wanna jump around at 140% and not approach then sure, you can say you'll never get grabbed by Lucas; but you'll never get close enough to do anything

@Nasty: Our throws don't kill at all lol

 

[Noobicidal]

I just played this matchup. F-tilt raaaapes. What is it, like... frame 4?

It's frame 6. Lucas' frame data is linked in the OP.

 

[T-block]

That would be me being lazy. Thanks.

Anyways, yeah... fresh f-tilt will kill Jiggs at surprisingly low percents, especially if used towards the edge of the stage. It's stronger than I remember it being.

 

[~Nasty~]

Hai guys. GR>Rest 100-0 Jigglypuff. Next MU. Done trolling.

Basically what Nasty is saying about F-tilt is that it's one of our back-up kill moves. What we really use the kill you around 70-80ish is primarily F-smash or D-smash. But we'll also use D-air>D-tilt lock (although, as you should really try DI'ing out, but you still take 20 damage from it). After that, if you live longer, we'll be trying to hit you with F-tilt, F-air, U-air and Pivot Grabs (for the D-throw).

Thanks rPSI for backing me up and clarifying what i was trying to say.

I just played this matchup. F-tilt raaaapes. What is it, like... frame 4?

@Manic: If Jiggs is forced to approach, pivot grab is a very real danger. If you wanna jump around at 140% and not approach then sure, you can say you'll never get grabbed by Lucas; but you'll never get close enough to do anything

@Nasty: Our throws don't kill at all lol

lol, i didn't think it did, but thanks for verifying that for me.

Anyways, yeah... fresh f-tilt will kill Jiggs at surprisingly low percents, especially if used towards the edge of the stage. It's stronger than I remember it being.

Told ya. lol. Fresh Ftilt is awesome.