Match-Up Re-Discussion: Luigi

Sinister Slush

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#1
Link For First Luigi Discussion
Luigi Vs Yoshi

Here we shall Discuss Yoshi vs Luigi, and how even 3 Eye'd Blue Luigi can pierce the Heavens with his drill!​

Luigi Vs Yoshi Ratio: 0/Even
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Luigi Ratios


Can Yoshi CG Luigi?: No
GR Options Off Stage: Full-Hop Egglay

Overall Summary


Luigi Vs Yoshi Videos


Ratio
Coming Soon
 

Luigisama

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#4
Luigi can get out camped by Yoshi and his eggs.
Luigi can counter Yoshi's bair with his upsmash because of the hit box on Luigi's stomach.
Yoshi is in up b kill percent starting at 60%. It is possible to kill yoshi around 45% to 55% but good Di can save him.
Luigi has to watch out for Yoshi's upair, down b, Yoshi with a well timed grab can catch Luigi during a misfire and Yoshi will not get hurt at least I remember he doesn't get hurt.

Luigi has a short cg on Yoshi with Fthrow. The way this works is if Luigi does fthrow and buffers a dash. The cg ends at 18%.
Luigi doesn't have a lot of kill moves on yoshi since Yoshi has really good DI. The only kill moves Luigi has is fsmash, up b, misfire, and nair. The only other kill move is up tilt and upsmash, but yoshi has to be at high percentage.

Lastly Luigi can stage spike Yoshi with dsmash only if Yoshi is end the edge.
 
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#6
Luigi will just about always have to approach against Yoshi. Yoshi also seems to want to keep Luigi off stage. Yoshi being somewhat grab-happy works too. Or well this is what I gather while getting bodied by MX.
 
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#7
Both our shields suck really hard in this MU. Take advantage of his bad traction, and pelt him with eggs. Once he gets win, you're going to get fried.

You're both going to live to absurd percentages due to the lack of ways to setup kill moves, except maybe Luigi's Nair if he decides to keep it fresh.
 

Delta-cod

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#8
Keep him out. Once he gets in he stays there. Do that and you should be fine. I haven't played this in a while but he should be the main one approaching.
I never understood why we say this about so many characters. A lot of us need to step up our DI/escape tactics.

Just DJ away from Luigi once he gets in. He's too slow to stay with us as we're leaving. He should be getting a couple of hits in at a time when we're at low percents, but beyond that, if you're seriously being ****ed up once he gets in, think about what you're doing.

Now, MK. MK can get in and stay in. Luigi? No.
 

Luigisama

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#9
Both our shields suck really hard in this MU. Take advantage of his bad traction, and pelt him with eggs. Once he gets win, you're going to get fried.

You're both going to live to absurd percentages due to the lack of ways to setup kill moves, except maybe Luigi's Nair if he decides to keep it fresh.
so true and lol I knew Luigi's shield was booty. But I don't think Yoshi's shield is bad. His shield can take a lot of luigi's moves.

Also forgot to mention that Yoshi's bair has shield poke so Luigi should tilt his shield up so that it doesn't hurt him.
 
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#11
so true and lol I knew Luigi's shield was booty. But I don't think Yoshi's shield is bad. His shield can take a lot of luigi's moves.

Also forgot to mention that Yoshi's bair has shield poke so Luigi should tilt his shield up so that it doesn't hurt him.
We're more likely to poke the bottoms of shields
 

DE_Desti

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#12
i would say 55-45 for luigi.

Luigi has majority of priority in the MU. Eggs can be annoying but only offstage. Jab from luigi and yoshi are both very important in closebattle. First hit first win of this closebattle. Jab cancel doesn't work. neutral B from luigi sucks, yoshi has armorshield but also yoshi's neutral B doesn't have high effect, because luigi will easily escape. nado doesn't work, yoshi just need to reverse grab, throw eggs, dtilt or in the correct timing down B.

In the airs, luigi has the advantage, except for uair, luigi has Bair, fair, dair and Nair whose are more powerful. Luigi would be glad to cliff yoshi out, but the main kill move for luigi is Fsmash. For yoshi, edgeguarding is important, but usmash will do great work too.

Luigi can Nair > Utilt 3x guarranted.
Yoshi Bair > Neutral B reverse guarranted.

x)
 

Z'zgashi

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#13
^ Good luck hitting us with Nair at low damage.

so true and lol I knew Luigi's shield was booty. But I don't think Yoshi's shield is bad. His shield can take a lot of luigi's moves.
We can take all of his moves, we just cant leave shield. Dat +10 frames of shield drop.

And 50/50 imo. If i had to lean towards one, I'd say veeeery slightly Yoshi. Yoshi can camp luigi all day (just be aware of grounded cyclone as it can close distance well if you arent prepared) and if we play smart, Luigi cant really combo us at all. If Luigi is in the air, throw eggs and distance yourself so that his aerials cant reach to punish his landing. If he's grounded, wall with short thrown eggs (basically throw them in front of weegee) so that he cant cyclone to you or walk/run up without having to shield. If weegee does get in, DJ away and/or try to get him with an egg lay or pivot grab and get him above you so you can pelt him with more eggs and punish his landings more (this is all we can really do to weegee, but thing is, weegee cant really stop it so it works well). If Luigi tries to air dodge eggs, SH uair or usmash his ending lag. If he tries to use air attacks, grab/egg lay him (and usmash beats out his nair, but dont try to beat out the initial hitbox as its not worth it). If he lands, run away and reset the field.
 

Poltergust

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#14
This match-up is scary against a good Luigi player, but as long as you play safely you shouldn't have too much trouble. You're going to need to be very precise so that you don't get punished, though.

As everyone has said, you need to camp Luigi. Don't bother ever approaching unless you're not in the lead anymore. He's basically Dedede with more dangerous kill moves and a far less annoying grab since he's so slow and gets camped hard (he has his Cyclone, though, so that helps him quite a bit since it's so fast). You'll want to bait Luigi into unfavorable positions (like him being above you) to make it easy to punish his movements. Luigi will try the same to you by attempting to apply constant pressure, but as was said before if you find yourself in a bad position try double-jumping away to reposition yourself. Luigi really can't do much about characters whose air-speed match his own ground-speed.

So yeah, it's a problematic match-up when one of the least mobile characters is paired up against one of the most mobile. Mobility is the key to succeeding in this match-up. As long as you don't try to do anything stupid like dash-grabbing into Luigi from a neutral position (have fun getting up-B'ed), he really can't do much to you. I think Luigi's most reliable kill move in this match-up is his n-air, which can kill Yoshi around 145% if he keeps it fresh, I think.

Oh, one more thing. While recovering, Luigi's side-B can get beaten out by Yoshi's f-air. It takes really precise timing, though. Otherwise the f-air doesn't come out in time or they trade, and trading with Luigi is usually a bad thing, so only do it if you are sure you're going to net the kill.

 

DE_Desti

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#15
just a scrub luigi let himself be spike while he recoverd with B-side. yoshi's OoS is pretty lame. And why should luigi jump when he's not in your range? lol don't wanna know what kind of luigis there are in your region.

Jab > Grab also is guaranted.

You will never have the chance to play on FD against a luigi. Luigi will everytime chose the small stages where you can't camp him out. Also, Luigi has amazing attacks in close range. (only thing left that makes him a Middletier.)
 

Poltergust

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#16
...I've played against Biglou and Boss before, although it's been a while. I also second Luigi.

Anyways, Luigi's close-range options are great, yes, but Yoshi's defensive options at long- to mid-range are pretty hard for Luigi to break through. It's pretty hard for a character with such low mobility to break through a wall of eggs, up-smashes, and pivot-grabs. If Yoshi manages to land a grab or Egg Lay the situation resets and Luigi has to work again to get close. This applies to basically any stage.

 

Z'zgashi

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#17
^ This. Yoshi can be safe as **** and play extremely gay on weegee, BUT, I still thinks its even as Luigi can absolutely wreck you if he gets in or you make a mistake. He can also punish mistakes really well with up which kills around 60% on us i believe (correct me if im wrong there).
 

DE_Desti

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#20
Right, i'm taking the train, buy some tickets Luxembourg - Florida for the plane tomorrow and stays there for 3 days for playing him (y)

lol ur pretty funny actually.
 

Z'zgashi

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#21
I liked the part where you got mad.

I was just saying that if you really wanna make judgement on the MU, play someone who's top level with the said character, and at the moment, the only two smashers who I think have the character down well enough to have that title are Polt and Delta.
 

Luigisama

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#22
^ This. Yoshi can be safe as **** and play extremely gay on weegee, BUT, I still thinks its even as Luigi can absolutely wreck you if he gets in or you make a mistake. He can also punish mistakes really well with up which kills around 60% on us i believe (correct me if im wrong there).
65% to 70% will definitely kill yoshi and any lower won't because of his awesome DI. Also as for mu ratio it should 50-50 since it can really go both ways. If Yoshi camps right with eggs Luigi is done. If Luigi can punish yoshi and land kill moves like up b and fsmash Luigi will win.

Oh btw one last thing about Luigi even though this is really hard and just weird. When Luigi does a regular up b without the fire punch it sends his opponents down and against yoshi if used right when they're both off the stage it can send yoshi down and Yoshi won't be able to recover.

^I have a replay where this happens, but no way of uploading it. :/
 

Z'zgashi

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#23
I dont think it so much sends them down as much as it has 0 knockback so they fall during the flinch frames. But, to be honest, I wouldnt be surprised, Mario's SJP beats out yoshi's DJ armor at any damage, so Weegee's would most likely be the same. Good luck getting a yoshi who knows what he's doing in that position though :p
 

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#24
No, Luigi's up-B has no knockback and should not be able to knock Yoshi out of his double-jump at any percentage. Mario's up-B is different because it has a lot of knockback even at 0%.

 

Delta-cod

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#25
Polt is correct about the sourspot up b. It will never break out armor.

Gashi, Zudenka is probably a top player of Yoshi's offensive game. He just doesn't camp afaik, which is necessary for this MU.

Also, to everyone saying it's 50-50 (0) yet also saying that tt's hopeless for Luigi if Yoshi camps right: Why are you assuming Yoshi's not doing it right? If Luigi gets wrecked when Yoshi camps right, then Luigi gets wrecked in the MU.

Up B really isn't a factor because you should never have to take risks that would get you punished that hard. If you get killed early by up b, you ****ed up.
 
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#26
well i never lost to a yoshi. not with luigi and not with snake... And i played against zudenka, slice and TKS.
Snake has nothing to do with this and you just named 2 yoshi's i have never seen camp and one i never heard of. so yup

play someone who's top level with the said character, and at the moment, the only two smashers who I think have the character down well enough to have that title are Polt and Delta.
You just said Zudenka isn't top level ready with Yoshi. -20 respect points :< and you use Cyan yoshi too? Zudenka is just overly aggro. His control of that character is amazing he just doesn't camp. And thats basically how you win this matchup.

When Luigi does a regular up b without the fire punch it sends his opponents down and against yoshi if used right when they're both off the stage it can send yoshi down and Yoshi won't be able to recover.

^I have a replay where this happens, but no way of uploading it. :/
Testing it atm even though i am beyond a doubt positive that it doesn't. What probably happened is yoshi got antsy and tried to do a raising aerial. you hit him out of it. Player error. Nothing you can really do on command.

Edit: Tested it at 999% doesn't do anything.

Oh delta. Its true camping is overly effective here when you do it right, and assuming we do it right the matchup is in our favor. I still wanna say its even


Edit2: While i was in testing that thing in training mode i testing UP B DJ breaking points for the hell of it. Aerial Up B breaks it at 26% Sweetspotted, and Grounded Breaks it at around 3% Sweet Spotted. Sour spot does nothing at 999% so its safe to say it doesn't break it.
 

Z'zgashi

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#27
Exactly, Zud cant camp. If he could sit down a while and add a defensive side to his game, I would probably consider him at Polt/Delta level.

And as for weegee's sourspot up b, thats good to know, Ill remember that, I just assumed it would be like Mario's.
 

Z'zgashi

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#29
There are a good 3-4+ Luigi mains in Utah, 2 of which live 5-10 mins away. One even walking distance, so I play this MU a lot as well. Unfortunately though, those 2 really arent amazing and one of them seconds Fox and almost always goes him against me instead. Aside from those two though, there are two others who just happen to both use Luigi/Peach and one of them is actually really good, so ive had a good amount of Weegee experience due to them. Once again though, both tend to lean more towards using Peach against me, so that's saying something right there.
 

Luigisama

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#30
well before we get off topic with dumb nonsense.

I would like to list a couple of stages that Luigi is good on against yoshi.

Ps1
Frigate orpheon
battlefield
I'll list some info why Luigi does pretty good on these stages and I think there might be more not sure. The only thing I can say for now is on ps1 that edge is evil towards Yoshi's recovery.
 

Z'zgashi

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#31
Yoshi really doesnt have good or bad stages, so we'd probably just go to your bad stages or where we feel comfortable, and strike your good stages and places we dont like. Yoshi really isnt that stage dependent.

Weegee should be striking his bad stages and counterpicking places that he's good at or that you personally like.
 

Luigisama

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#34
Ps1: Well by bad edge I mean if Luigi happens to get yoshi far from the edge then while Yoshi does his 2nd jump and his up b to recovery he might miss the edge. Then go under that space under the edge for ps1 and fall to his death(This is probably not going to happen 100% of the time, but I've seen it happen many times and I always try to get yoshi in this position). Some of the transformation can be good and bad for them. The fire one will probably just lead Yoshi and Luigi to stop fighting. The Rock one can help Luigi because what I do on that formation is spam Luigi cyclone in the middle part with all of the platforms and hide at the bottom of the platforms to not get hit by eggs or ground pound. The platforms block yoshi's eggs and are not curved to allow any ground pound slides from yoshi. Grass formation can go both ways and if there was anything useful for Luigi it would be the hill in the middle of the stage which can be use to influence the direction of Luigi's fireballs or to mindgame the opponent into thinking the fireball is going straight then go for a punish.

Frigate orpheon: excluding the flipping this stage can help Luigi in getting kills on Yoshi because of the platform in the middle. up tilt kill, upsmash kill, and at the edge of the stage while Luigi has his back towards Yoshi dsmash kill. Also less camp space for yoshi if it happens.

Battlefield: it give Luigi more to work with against yoshi and also the platforms prevents any ground pound kills. Lastly blast zones are close enough for Luigi to get fsmash(prostate exam), up tilt kills and upsmash. The platforms just add an extra chance.
 

Luigisama

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#38
oh I completely forgot to add how to break or get through Yoshi's camp.
(Sama style)
watch the eggs and how the yoshi throws them. Use a fireball to destroy one and head yoshi with a down b or jabs. As you approach shield any incoming eggs and watch out for yoshi grabs after you shield by spot dodging, but the has some sort of extending grab time so if you spot dodge right you can punish the grab. A last resort to approach yoshi is dash attack because yoshi has a very hard time powershielding so the last hit can get yoshi to stop camping.
 

Luigisama

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#40
we don't carelessy spam eggs like that. (at least the better one's)
hmm well not to put Delta on the spot or meat ride in any way, but when I had to play him at Ktar5 he smartly used eggs on me(not that it bothered me good stuff) and 3/5 times I tried my efforts to stop it I got some hits on him. In the U.S and in the EC of the U.S Delta is known to be a dangerous yoshi so I'm not the only one saying that he is really good. There are others who say so to.
Also yes I understand that not every yoshi is going to camp with eggs and that this strategy of mine will work 100% of the time. But it's just something that can be used on yoshi.
 
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