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Match-Up Re-Discussion: King Dedede

Poltergust

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Basically the only match in which I Delta-cod the entire time. It's a bit boring, though. =/

 

Scatz

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Honestly, this matchup is more fun than some of the other ones I've played. I might pst my input on another day.
 

Z'zgashi

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I cant decide wether Id lean more towards 0 or -1 in this Match Up. You have to camp like a homo here though.
 

F-Tier Player

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I really liked Scatz' critique on Depster playing against DDD. It might offer important keys to remember and actually get to watch how the MU may be played.

[collapse="Those who care to read"]
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1NYLffwLWU



  1. First Stock
    • You don't completely understand when Yoshi's jab lock is supposed to work. He only gains frame advantage when the opponent reaches 100% (sometimes lower, but that's about the average). From that point, you can decide whether to continue to jab lock them or wait until they reach around 130% so that you can Jab > Dsmash or DownB. Doing it that early leaves you at negative advantage or even, and Yoshi doesn't want to be in those situations.
    • When you're getting chain-grabbed, you shouldn't be trying to do anything else other than get away or punishing a missed grab. It's good that you tried to Fsmash when you had the chance, but Jabbing his shield isn't going to cut it. Go for a sliding pivot grab or just run away to avoid taking more damage.
    • When someone is chasing you down, and you happen to throw an egg while they're fairly close, lob the egg so that it'll just land over your head. It at least allows Yoshi to break grabs when someone is too close, plus this helps you stay a little more safer against grab oriented characters.
    • Don't repeatedly jab an enemy's shield. Brawl barely gives anyone frame advantage, and it's not in your interest to double jab shields. If you were going for mixups, then I'd be fine with that, but from the looks of it, you were just mashing A at that point.
    • If you have the lead, don't take risky stuff. That Uair wasn't needed since D3 was nowhere close to death percents. You want to keep your stock at all costs so that you have better momentum going into the next stock.
  2. Second Stock
    • Tip when getting chaingrabbed, use mainly Fsmash and just plain Shield. You'll be able to tell when he's going to grab you again (whether it's dash or standing grab), so you can spotdodge accordingly. Throw in Fsmash a few times (though keep it rare) when you've conditioned him or notice he's being late. As you may have noticed, Doom just quick dashed to shield. If he decided to dash grab you, he wasn't going to miss. Know the time gap in which D3 will miss Yoshi if he's too late.
    • Extremely bad luck with the Gordo killing you. **** happens.
  3. Third Stock
    • Again, you were hesitating while getting CGed. Just hold the shield and watch his reactions. Or you can decide to just straight up run away if he walks like he did at 3:07.
    • Okay, at first I didn't think you'd have the habit, but it's your third time doing it. You always double jabbed to dash grab in that match. You really want to get that out of your system since you were punished for it everytime.
    • There you go. Mixup from the CG what you have to do, and it'll make D3 work harder.
    • You noticingly DJAD or DJ Dair when you're under the stage. I haven't seen you do any other methods, and luckily Doom didn't really punish that as hard as I expected.
    • Bair wall does not work vs D3. His Bair just goes straight through ours (which you noticed when you got smacked at 3:57). Keep bair spamming to a minimum cause you're objective of this matchup is to stay away from D3 main damage move: Dthrow.
    • You don't have to always ETS. Egg throwing in place is sometimes much more effective than ETSing. If you had just ET, then you would've swatted the waddles coming at you and would've caused Doom to shield/dodge.
    • You're taking a lot of unnecessary damage from Waddles being thrown. Dodge em, and throw eggs while doing so. Like I said earlier, you don't have to use ETS just to throw an egg. You can throw them while in the air, and it has a decent chance of landing if you time it right.
    • Stop throwing eggs directly at your opponent. ET is meant to cut off an area temporaily, and it's to make the opponent learn how to time powershields at different moments. You only lobbed the egg when D3 was close to you at that time, at which point, you shouldn't be throwing eggs in case you are asking to get punished. If you've played any other fighting games, you'll understand that eggthrow i just like hadoken and all the other projectiles.
    • Dash grab got you killed. It's far too risky to dash grab D3 unless you've conditioned him to land in it, or when you've made a scenario where you'll minimize punishment for missing the grab (aka, being near a ledge so that you only take 1-2 Dthrows).
[/collapse]
 

Depster

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Good idea, alejandro.

After a lot of mental review of that match, I'd put us at 0 as long as you do whatever everyone else has been saying (camp like mad) and switch up what you do out of Dedede's dthrow.
 

Z'zgashi

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No one in Utah uses dedede. Aside from me in friendlies and this other guy who's inactive, except he mostly uses Jiggs/Snake anyway.

But from the very, very little I've played this MU, I'd say it's even.
 

Sinister Slush

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So little discussion... I'll bring it back with a very small write up.

Camp All Day! If you do camp, be sure to always be near the ledge so if he grabs us he won't be doing no 30+% and only get one Dthrow and maybe a Ftilt once we fly off the stage.

Juggle him forever by starting off with egglay since he's such a big target for this move and he'll be sheilding 80% of the time thinking we'll approach stupidly.
If he's sheilding don't try any aerials cause he'll just sheild every hit for Bair/Dair/Anything else and just sheildgrab you. Retreating Bair doesn't help either since he can actually grab us if we tried it
Pivot grab is our friend in this Matchup, If he's offstage don't challenge him he'll try to swallowcide or Bair you. Bair can hit us out of our Super Armor I believe, and if you're offstage while a Gordo is headed towards you, our Fair can beat it.
 

Delta-cod

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The problem with grabbing DDD is that his Spotdodge is unholy. Like, it's not even fair how good it is when combined with his shield.

I'd actually say this MU is -1, because of his edge traps. Once we reach those kill percents, being on the ledge is AWFUL. He can cover a perfect range of moves with proper spacing and utilt, which is very dangerous. Outside of kill percents, he still provides good pressure, although we CAN be a little more risky due to not being near death.
 

Poltergust

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To be honest, if it wasn't for Dedede's ledge-pressure I'd consider this to be in our favor. However, it provides so much trouble to Yoshi that it makes a -1 plausible. It's that much of a factor.

Thing is, the more I play this match-up, the more I see it being even. I mean, we outcamp him to heck and being on the ledge shouldn't happen too often. I need to play against more Dedede's before reaching a final conclusion, though.

 

Delta-cod

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I've played Atomsk's DDD (HI!) and the ledge pressure is ridiculous. There are like, NO options. None. It's really silly. >_>''

Playing against DDDs that don't keep that ledge pressure on makes me think we beat him because of our ability to camp and everything. But once they start trapping us on the ledge, we lost A LOT of our advantages, since the CG puts us there and the proper spacing makes it REALLY easy to grab us, too. ;_;
 

Z'zgashi

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Take him to SV and jump on the ledge when it floats over you.

Yeeaaaahhhhhh.....

God I wish people here used this guy, imma be sad when I have to play CO18 or something at Genesis and have no idea what to do :(
 

Scatz

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Since I'm finally done with spring semester, I'll get to writing this. I'll also add in about the ledge problem, and the current options I believe that would help clear this problem.
 

Poltergust

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Well, it depends on where he is and what percentage he is at.

If he's high and at low percentages, d-air seems like a good option. B-air may also be good for juggling purposes.
If he's low and at low percentages, then I'd rather just up-smash him, f-smash him, d-tilt him, or n-air him to send him back off-stage.
If he's high at high percentages, u-air to kill him.
If he's low at high percentages, basically the same thing I do for low percentages, except now they could gimp/kill him.

It's situational, but it's not hard to react to at all. Dedede's up-B puts him in a really bad position every time he uses it.

 
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