Match-up guide - Where to find a good one?

PlamZ

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I can't seem to find a comprehensive match-up guide for characters other than the top 4 to 6.

Anyone knows where I could find such a guide?
 

DV8R001

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I can't seem to find a comprehensive match-up guide for characters other than the top 4 to 6.

Anyone knows where I could find such a guide?
There aren't really any guides that cover more than the S-tiers, but whatever match-up you're looking for you can find on Smashboards and VGBC videos cover pretty well. Also keep in mind a good strategy to have against low-tiers is just to keep them above you and space them accordingly. Any match-up you're having trouble with in particular?
 

Hunybear

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I actually have 2 years worth of match up notes compiled but it's like 50 pages and I'm the only one who can actually maneuver around the information. I might compile, compress and articulate everything into a guide format eventually but it's still just raw info and notes.

Edit: I'm starting work on making it comprehensible now, it'll be done in a month or two. Gonna double check my info first.
 
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PlamZ

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The biggest problem is that since Marth is vert flow-charty, janky matchups like both Links, Pika and Yoshi can be difficult to approach correctly.
 

MH | Joeschmo

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The biggest problem is that since Marth is vert flow-charty, janky matchups like both Links, Pika and Yoshi can be difficult to approach correctly.
I have a lot of Link experience and personally it isn't a hard match-up. Just out space them and watch for patterns in their usage of projectiles. You could take two approaches on how to play against Link, you could just stay near them, essentially smothering them, or just wait them out and force them to approach.
 

Hunybear

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I have a lot of Link experience and personally it isn't a hard match-up. Just out space them and watch for patterns in their usage of projectiles. You could take two approaches on how to play against Link, you could just stay near them, essentially smothering them, or just wait them out and force them to approach.
What do you think of edge guarding link btw. Seeing as how Marth doesn't have any persisting hit boxes covering the tether option is tricky. Do you have any advice or tricks against tether?
 

PlamZ

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What do you think of edge guarding link btw. Seeing as how Marth doesn't have any persisting hit boxes covering the tether option is tricky. Do you have any advice or tricks against tether?
I have a thousand hour of samus matchup, so I can answer this one. Marth has a wonderful array of tools to edgeguard tether.

What you want is throw a long and weak hitbox to take away their tether. That can be done by either back-airing or, depending on the wall-teching abilities of your foe, simply dropping and Up-B'ing back on the ledge while the tether is reeling. If you feel risky, you could also grab the ledge and try to Dair. Make sure to refresh your invincibility, otherwise you're get hit by the tether and will probably get edgeguarded.
 

Hunybear

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I have a thousand hour of samus matchup, so I can answer this one. Marth has a wonderful array of tools to edgeguard tether.

What you want is throw a long and weak hitbox to take away their tether. That can be done by either back-airing or, depending on the wall-teching abilities of your foe, simply dropping and Up-B'ing back on the ledge while the tether is reeling. If you feel risky, you could also grab the ledge and try to Dair. Make sure to refresh your invincibility, otherwise you're get hit by the tether and will probably get edgeguarded.
That's what I've been thinking. I also clocked a lot of Samus hours. I use to swat bombs with back air and force tether recovery's. A easy ledge drop up-B would stage spike, but as we both got better and wall teching became more prevalent in out play I noticed myself getting caught more by Up-Bs out of tether jumps. I guess it shakes my confidence for going off stage and covering the tether option. I still edge guard pretty reliably but it's a really tricky mix up on the edge.

I haven't played a "competent link" yet so all I can do is speculate without real practice.
 

PlamZ

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Also, there's a lot of Link and YoungLink that won't try to sweetspot. Remember than your counter beats that very easily. That will force them to try to sweetspot, which in turn will make you able to just edgehog them.
 

DV8R001

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I actually have 2 years worth of match up notes compiled but it's like 50 pages and I'm the only one who can actually maneuver around the information. I might compile, compress and articulate everything into a guide format eventually but it's still just raw info and notes.

Edit: I'm starting work on making it comprehensible now, it'll be done in a month or two. Gonna double check my info first.
Make sure you make a thread when you make that, I'd really like to see that.

The biggest problem is that since Marth is vert flow-charty, janky matchups like both Links, Pika and Yoshi can be difficult to approach correctly.
I'm kinda glad this thread was made, it kinda shows how much of Marth's match-ups haven't been really analyzed.

Marth VS Pikachu
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9b_J3ZtbO2o (The Moon Vs Anther)

Marth VS Link
https://vods.co/v/bcscjb?position=2&list=r66Hd9tPEiA_VVO5RVqF1FGwXvkDr3PKSa7Xw9U50uc (J666 vs Tai)
Thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/marth-vs-link-advice-tips-help.411772/

Marth VS Yoshi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjaDiiwj3Ww (The Moon VS Peanutphobia)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZhsK15uHVI (Smash G0D VS Peanutphobia)
 

MH | Joeschmo

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What do you think of edge guarding link btw. Seeing as how Marth doesn't have any persisting hit boxes covering the tether option is tricky. Do you have any advice or tricks against tether?
I typically try to swat them away before they get a chance to tether, as Marth doesn't have many options to beat it. Honestly letting them get the ledge is sometimes just better than trying to challenge their recovery because Link doesn't really have many good options on ledge recovery.
 

Hunybear

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Pikachu is actually a match up I have some thought's on.
A while back (year and a half) I got the opportunity to spend a day with Pikachad.
While destroying me. He talked about the match up from a less micro situation standpoint, but more of a objective whole.

I believe that there a are a few matchups that are more zoning based as apposed to movement. Characters like IC, Luigi, Pikachu, and Even falcon (to an extent) would be characters that accentuates the zoning over movement idea. (not to say good movement isn't important obviously) What I mean is that, because of there super fast approaches that cover the majority of the stage you are forced to play a game in which your always weary of that option. Examples being in the IC & Luigi match up, always being in a position to D-tild is super imperative in cutting off approaches as your sword effectively out ranges all their approach options. (except blizzard which in that case I dash back.)

The falcon match up (movement is still key but amazing zoning as well) Falcon can can easily cover all the stage with a running Nair and he loves to hit a Marth from behind. Spacing in this instance does not mean positioning yourself right outside the opponents effective range of attack (running Nair) because that would mean positioning yourself on the edge at all times. You have to use aggressive movement as well as impeccable zoning to keep control of the pace in this match up.

Watch DV8R001 DV8R001 's Marth vs Pikachu post and notice all the zoning Fairs and Nairs the Moon uses during the set. He does this well knowing Pikachu's priority is complete trash and he'll effectively out range all of pikachus areals. At the same time he realizes that Pikachu's raising Nair is a cannon ball of death that combo's into itself and combo's into a U-smash that can kill around 80% depending on the stage & DI. It's so fast t's almost unreachable so unless you have the read on it every time and can hit you out of your dash away with ease.

Anyway these are just some thought's on the match up and the way other match ups are played.
Just a theory I suppose.

Edit: I would be interested in some Yoshi info as I've never played a good Yoshi.
 
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