Match Up Export - Samus

[FBC] Papa Mink

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#1
Well, my opinion (and the Samus's opinions) are that this is a -1 for us. AKA, they have the advantage. We recently discussed this in the Panelists forum and it was agreed upon. I would still like to discuss it.

GO!

I'll invite the samus's in.

I'd like to discuss the usual:

Stage Control.
What to do.
What stages to ban/choose.
 

DelxDoom

Smash Lord
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#2
samus usually has an okay time doing damage and a hard time dishing out kill moves. jigglypuff's low weight allows samus an easier time scoring kills.

samus has a strong projectile game while jigglypuff has none and is an air based character. usually to counter a projectile game, you stay on the ground. inherently, puff either has to use her strength against samus's strength, or sacrifice her air strength to have access to shielding the projectiles.
basically, when puff is not close, she is at a disadvantage.

at close range, puff does have a better grab than samus and her shorthop game allows her to have a few offensive options that samus does not. at this range, puff has to make sure not to get hit by up B (or DI out and punish, olol), try not to get pushed back to the midrange/longrange basically. and finally puff has to not die when she is at high percentage up close (dtilt is a big one, but dsmash, fsmash, even bair can be deadly up close)

puff sort of has a hard time killing samus. puff's offstage game triumphs samus' but samus has a tether that puff must be aware of in order to not miss out opportunities to gimp. samus also has bombs to control her aerial momentum, but of course jiggs has jumps.

this is all sort of basic on the surface stuff though, i'm not well versed enough in the game to go further.
 

[FBC] Papa Mink

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#3
In the Brawl Panelist's we decided this was a -1 for puff.

I will go into further description once more samus' and puffs come in.
 

-LzR-

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#4
Puff can kinda kick the missiles and laugh. But the shot is scary. Our Samus player pretty much never misses with it >_<
 

DelxDoom

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#6
don't forget zair lol. idk it is basically an aerial but its range is kind of akin to a projectile
 

Tesh

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#7
The thing about using aerials to beat missles is that missles auto cancel on landing and you will leave yourself open to whatever follow up she picks while you are in hitlag on the missle. Lightest character in the game can't afford to take 7 damage for free.
 

Serris

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#8
I think this is a good video to refer to when analyzing the match-up. Shameless self-promotion aside, it shows a lot of the ways Samus can punish Jigglypuff. Her aerial cancels and projectiles give her a very clear-cut advantage at both mid and long range. Both characters share a glaring inability to kill at lower percents. This makes counterpicking a stage impossible, because whatever works for Jigglypuff also works for Samus. In fact, it may be more advantageous for Samus. Jigglypuff's lighter weight means Samus has an easier time killing her than the vast majority of the roster.

Basically, pick stages that are more open and have wider boundaries so that she can't kill you as easily. Corneria and Brinstar are big no-nos. I'd say Final Destination and Smashville are ideal. Try to stay up close to negate her range advantage. Samus's melee attacks generally have slower start-up, so use that to your advantage. It's an uphill battle, but it's not impossible.

65-35 in favor of :samus2:
 

[FBC] Papa Mink

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#9
I think it's more 55:45 tbh.


You shouldn't be killing us unless it's Utilt, Zair or ___ i know i'm missing something.

Jigglypuff's mentality in this game is to avoid taking damage. Yes, your zair beats alot of our approach and when we're next to you, IMO OoS UpB is obnoxiously annoying to fall into (so watch your AC Dairs puffs) But we shouldn't be airdodging into you or getting hit by smashes. We should be playing very campy... in and out.

Stages that allow us to GTFO such as PS1 or CS are good CPs.


The kill will come to us eventually.
 
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Darkmetroidomega
#10
I played this MU often in my earlier stages of Brawl, but I haven't tried it any time recently.

With what's already been said, I'd concur that Puff should also be wary of the possibility of Samus using her CS for a kill. I can't really add a whole lot that I'd say applies to the MU these days, but all Puffs should try finding if there is some sort of projectile/camping pattern that the Samus falls into. Often that is what gets inexperienced Samus players to mess up; throwing a wrench into their repetitive spam. As for someone well-versed and flexible, Puff will have to be patient enough to avoid taking damage at all costs. It's just a crucial aspect of this MU. Make sure to carefully space considering Zair's ridiculous length, and pay more attention to that and her CS than the pressuring missiles. That's all I can really say given my limited experience :/

:phone:
 

Blissard

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#11
These discussions are kinda dead, but...fun fact:
Puff can DACUS under grounded super missiles.
Fun to catch bad Samus' off guard while they're mindlessly shorthopping missiles.
 

[FBC] Papa Mink

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#13
Look bro.

No offense but i feel that all you do is come into every puff thread we make and then just tell us how bad we are, while not even backing up your own statements.

If you'd like to contribute and sound your own voice, please do.
But don't knock down everything we do.

And assume that there IS an LGL.
 

Grim Tuesday

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#14
Lolz.

You guys are good (I've learnt a lot from you, Woody and Puffster and you guys are all my bros) but citing a set from '08 where both players were clearly inexperience in the MU and saying it's 65:35 Samus' favor because of it is just... blegh >_>

I dunno, I just don't see the point in spreading misinformation with these MU ratios when we have things like Falco only beating us +1, but going even with Ganon or whatever it was we decided. It just feels really inconsistent and pointless.

Whenever I try and backup my statements I just get told I'm wrong haha and it goes into pointless theorycraft. I have no way of recording stuff to demonstrate what I mean.

I'm not going to pretend I know anything about the Samus MU, because I don't, but it is plain to see that no one else here does either. :/
 

teluoborg

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#16
Hey yo, Pound cancels fully charged shot.
If you destroy a missile with a sweetspot Nair or Fair you can still hit Samus with the sourspot.
Running towards Samus and PSing any canceled missile/Zair is actually legit because of how slow Jiggs runs.

I'm out.
 

[FBC] Papa Mink

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#18
We can even duck his:

Grab
Fsmash
Ftilt
Jab
Grounded Down B
Any Aerial besides NON Auto cancelled Dair.
Autocancelled Dair


We can punish like, half of those with a grab or a fair.
And defintely can punish grounded down b with a rest lmao.
 

Z'zgashi

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#20
Ill see if I can get my hands on a Samus main (we do have 1, and another smasher who uses her as a secondary) and try this MU out. Never really had much experience in it, but Id say -1 sounds fair through my Super Theory Bros crafting.
 

Z'zgashi

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#23
So I sat down and played our local Samus main as Jiggs for a bit yesterday at a tournament. Id say, from what Ive seen, Samus is at least a -1, possibly even a -2, but definitely not worse than that. Samus can keep Jiggs out well with zair and missiles, and can actually space well with her bair and ftilt. She isnt much slower than Jiggs, so she can actually keep up with her movements, she's near impossible to gimp (unless you literally guide her off the side blastzone the entire way) and trades actually tend to go well with her due to her heavy weight.

So yeah, Im a bit in between on -1 and -2, probably a bit towards -1 though.
 
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