Match Up Export - Metaknight

[DtJ S2n]

Rules to follow

* Be polite even in a disagreement
* Realistic matchup ratios please
* Don't repeat things already said
* No one liners, please

Match-up Ratio: To be added!​

Advantages

• Kill potential
• Actually outranges MK
• Heavy
• Difficult to gimp
• Superarmor destroys attack-happy MKs

Disadvantages

• We're freaking massive, difficult to evade attacks
• MK shield pokes us all day
• MK's size and great shield makes him difficult to hit
• He's so good at juggling!
• His disjoints(and our lack of) can punish our whiffs

Summary
To be added!

Stages

Neutral:
Counterpick:
Ban:

Alright guys, get on it! Let's knock this one out before MK gets banned in Unity. I'll write up my own stuff later.

 

[Neon!]

This is currently being argued for -3 for dk for the matchup chart 2.0. I honestly hope it gets labeled -3 because this matchup has just gotten worse and worse for us. I'll post more after the discussion takes place.

 

[CaLibUr_1337]

As an Australian DK I think it's -2 but I am from Australia.

The worst thing about this matchup imo is that while it takes MK forever to kill us, we won't make it back to the stage often after 100% due to MK's aerials such as down and neutral air and are lack of good get up options after that %

Also do we have 100% guaranteed ways of beating nado? Last tournament I was versing a dumb mk player who was so committed to nado and my f-tilt wasn't working half the time to beat it. :/

 

[Ripple]

how to beat nado

normal f-tilt beats it once. refresh it 3-4 times in order for it to break it again

up angled beats it 2x then refresh it 4-5 times.

sweetspot up-tilt breaks it once. refresh it 3 times


nothing else works except punch of course and even then, that doesn't work everytime

 

[DtJ S2n]

Honestly straight up challenging nado is really difficult. There are angles we can't beat it at all from. The only thing to do when they're coming from a higher angle is to walk away so they line up for u-tilt (Will is a professional of this), or to shield it. If you have enough shield, shielding nado works. As soon as the nado ends you have to either pressure the MK or run away so your shield regens. We're lucky enough to be able to chase MK if he runs with his tornado after hitting us with run + down-b.

D-smash can hit tornados too, but that requires them to be coming almost horizontal at you. This is a pretty good option on slopes though.

If someone is trying to juggle you with tornado, all our aerials can work if well spaced (don't even try to n-air, u-air is even easier). I find b-air to be the easiest. You just have to drop the weakspot into it, or space it so that you're kinda dropping your foot into the center of the nado. D-air works well but you have to get a good read, since it's so slow.

Sometimes you can u-air out of nados. I don't know why. You can't SDI tornados, so I think it has something to do with how MK hits the B button.

 

[C.J.]

Speed of MK pushing the buttons, the specific parts of the hitbox that tornado is hitting you with, and how close you are to the center/corners.

 

[Ripple]

^^^

not even close

hitboxes that do less than 1% can't be SDI'd

 

[CaLibUr_1337]

Thanks for the refresh info. I'll try up-tilt and punch more often. Sometimes I'll able to bair out if I'm being juggled with it. Will try upair as well. I guess if I see I'm at a bad angle I should just escape to the ledge if I'm below 100%

 

[allens]

i guess its time for me to finally contribute to the DK boards after all everyone here has helped me get so far, (AUS DK).. one of the best currently. ok here we go.

Nado-
This move is ********, if MK uses this move correctly its very hard for DK to do anything about it, especially when pressured off the edge.

Our arsenal:

Ftilt
Utilt
Uair
Dsmash
DK Punch
Bair
Shield.

OK. Lets start from ideal move to when your stuck in a bad situation and have limited options.

provided you can space using the stage to move forward and backward to space, Ftilt, Utilt, DK punch and Dsmash are probably your best ways of knocking MK out of nado.

#1 Option is Ftilt, aimed upwards like ripple posted earlier, will knock MK out twice, then it will be too stale and you'll get punished. remember to space it correctly, you have to be sure that MK is going to run into it.

#2 Utilt, again as rip mentioned this will only work once, and the range is a lot harder to space, this will take some practice.

#3 Dsmash and DK punch are probably about equal here, Dsmash comes out just fast enough with just enough range to knock him out provided you get DK's fist the range it needs. DK punch will hit straight through a nado close to the ground, but remember only the grounded version of DK punch will stand upto nado. an aerial version wont work, you will only be sucked in and lose your stocked punch.

#4 Bair... hey. if you've ever played DK you must know how good this move is, how can it not beat nado? well with the right spacing you can beat nado with bair. problem is the spacing is extremely hard in competitive play, id recommend not trying to use bair as it'll get you more punished than not.

#5 Shield. so your stuck in shield, because MK is using nado in your face. what can you do? first things first. angle your shield up, to prevent pokes (MK needs to hit your shield, move away and then come back in without you angling your shield for him to poke.). ok so MK lands next to you or moves away and lands, after doing a Nado MK will undergo 29 frames of ending lag, although if they end in the air, they can eat up 10 frames, meaning that when they hit the ground, you actually only have 19 frames in which to act (i'm not sure on how much shield lag you undergo could someone help me out?).
I myself usually punish nado using Grab/Dtilt/Ftilt out of shield (if MK is close enough) and Down-B if he moves away. Spotdodge at the end of nado to avoid shieldstun if you can memorise the timing, but shield is probably safer.

#6 your about to get hit! quick SDI up and punish using a fast falled uair, i've heard people say this works but Ive never been able to make it happen? i'll see what others think. you'd have to SDI during the first hit of nado as the rest dont have enough knockback.

try not to get too mad, there have been times where MK goes unpunished after ending nado next to me and continues his barrage with a downsmash. if you are worried about that, just resort to using DK's frame 6 jab or frame 6 Utilt (provided MKs close enough)

So thats everything i can help you guys with in regard to Nado..

DO NOT APPROACH. i cant stress this enough, MK has better moves, he has the frame advantage in almost every aspect, being DK what you want to do is control the middle of the stage, push MK off the edge. but don't approach him when hes air camping, this matchup will require all your mindgames ^^.

Remember that you are scary, you are the stronger Kong. DK is a force to be reckoned with, when your moves connect, your opponent will cringe with virtual pain. MK will be afraid, use this to your advantage.

when you're off the ledge you may as well drop your controller. MK can shuttle loop over and over until he gets the KO, and there's nothing we can do as if DK air dodges he will plummet to his death.

STAGES:
Neutral - Battlefield, Smashville.

Ban - Frigate, Brinstar, Rainbow Cruise (probably in that order)

Counterpick.. Jungle Japes (banned), Yoshi's Island (they will ban), Luigis Mansion (banned), PS1 / PS2. PS2 is probably better as DK can abuse the low gravity a lot better than MK. PS1 and PS2 have good platforms to abuse with DK's supercopter and it increases his getback options using autocancelled spinningkong

Final Destination is ok because of the size, you can space with a comfort zone
Delfino / Halberd have the option to shark, but MK uses this a lot better than DK.

Yoshi's is probably best, followed by Jungle Japes (off ledge options yay..)

SUMMARY
Do not approach
When spacing aim to take 2 steps forward, 1 step back, slowly push MK towards the edge.
angle shield up against nado
Do not approach
counterpick whatever you feel most comfortable on, there's no point experimenting with stages against MK

Sorry this was such a large wall of text, but I hope it helps a fellow kong..

 

[CaLibUr_1337]

It's about time I've seen you post man

I agree with a lot of things mentioned but when we are below 100% and offstage it isn't quite the end of the world. Also if you time up B when offstage then SA frames will save you from getting hit by MK.

The only other thing I can mention is that you shouldn't rely on GUA below 100% when hanging on the ledge. While it's DK's best option it can still be punished fairly easily if the MK is waiting for it.

 

[C.J.]

^^^

not even close

hitboxes that do less than 1% can't be SDI'd

I have no idea if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me <_<

 

[Luigi player]

Nair is the best if you're falling down to a nado imo, because it's easier to time than uair and weak bair, since the hitbox is out longer.

 

[DtJ S2n]

I actually feel that playing a little aggressive is really important here. If we let MK approach on his own terms, we have nothing to do. Shielding tornado is something you want to avoid, but you're going to have to do it if you just sit on the ground and wait for them. And naturally if you let them jump above you in a mid-range-ish position, you can't stop their tornado and will have to shield it. Punishing nado is a real 50-50 thing, if the MK retreats correctly. Between his amazing back roll and shuttle loop, it's a very difficult guessing game.

Getting out giant punch is our #1 priority in this match-up. That's a given, and camp until you get it. Then I feel we should pressure the MK, get into a range we're comfortable in (f-tilt/d-tilt range) instead of waiting for him to come at us however he likes.

Super secret awesome tip: Side-b out of shield and before landing. This **** wins games. You have to get used to MK's height and side-b's hitbox. MK LOVES to try and frame trap us when we're landing, side-b murders his dash-grab/d-smash. And you know how MK f-smash on shield is always followed up by d-smash if you try and punish? Jump out of shield and side-b. It works and is either a free kill or damage. Jump out of shield and d-air is also effective and less of a commitment/beats more things. It pulls our legs up out of the way of the d-smash.

I'm entirely serious about this oos stuff. if you're really fast or maybe if they're just slow, works on glide attack on shield too. It's better than just shielding stuff and probably getting shield poked.

edit: I still don't get why people like our get-up attack under 100% and it makes me feel like I'm missing out on a huge secret or something.

 

[crifer]

That MU is stupid.
He runs into us. we f/d tilt -> he shields and punishs with a dash grab/attack.
We´re in the air. tornado till tomorrow.
We´re offstage -> we get shuttle looped or daired till tomorrow
We bair -> he upB´s us.

It´s like we´re only relying on getting unsafe moves in and hoping that he runs into our hitboxes. stupid MU.

 

[allens]

the way I have played the matchup (and been successful)

was to approach very slowly and throw DK's size around, make it known that a DK was on the stage. It was very slow approaching, waiting for the opportunity, this was when the MK was playing very air-campy; and because MK has terrible air speed it mean't that a power shield or when he ran out of jumps he would get punished

 

[allens]

That MU is stupid.
He runs into us. we f/d tilt -> he shields and punishs with a dash grab/attack.
We´re in the air. tornado till tomorrow.
We´re offstage -> we get shuttle looped or daired till tomorrow
We bair -> he upB´s us.

It´s like we´re only relying on getting unsafe moves in and hoping that he runs into our hitboxes. stupid MU.

This is all pretty much true, the way I like to look at it is an ocean floor.

the floor of the ocean is not flat, its filled with lumps and bumps, imagine when you pick your character that character starts on one of these lumps or bumps, the aim is to get your character to swim to the surface.

MK happens to be the one character that starts on the beach, DK has a long way to swim and poor gannon is stuck in the abyss.

in order to beat MK you need to show him that by swimming to the top you learn tricks on the way. these tricks are our only way of 'outplaying' opposing MK's.

not sure if that made sense, have fun reading lol

 

[Attila the Hun]

I agree with S2.

Also, sometimes when they charge an Fsmash to punish our getting off the ledge, you can just get up from the ledge and Fsmash yourself. From my experience ours has more range, and MK dies easily when he gets hit by our smashes. Yet again though, I'm from N.S., so I'll never have to play this match up ever again.

 

[DtJ S2n]

This is all pretty much true, the way I like to look at it is an ocean floor.

the floor of the ocean is not flat, its filled with lumps and bumps, imagine when you pick your character that character starts on one of these lumps or bumps, the aim is to get your character to swim to the surface.

MK happens to be the one character that starts on the beach, DK has a long way to swim and poor gannon is stuck in the abyss.

in order to beat MK you need to show him that by swimming to the top you learn tricks on the way. these tricks are our only way of 'outplaying' opposing MK's.

not sure if that made sense, have fun reading lol

 

[Attila the Hun]

I love you, S2. So much. <3