Match Up Export: Metaknight!

[Sage JoWii]

Overview: Metakniiii!?!! Whether he's in a tier by himself or just remaining above EVERYONE, he's the bat you love to hate. Many options and large error margins for MK means this is an uphill battle but it's not unwinnable. Are you calm under pressure? Can you stay frosty? Do you have THE ANSWER?!?? I do, and it's 'You got this'.


Kirby’s Pros and Cons:

+ Good grab game.
+ FSmash kills early (if fresh).
+ Useful bair and tilts.

- Lightweight leads to early deaths.
- Slow airspeed (in comparison).

Metaknight's Pros and Cons:

+ Plenty of defensive and offensive options.
+ Excellent recovery
+ Large error margin
+ Plenty of avenues for damage racking.
- Light, floaty for earlier kills.
- Most disliked character in the game.

Watch out for:
Shuttle loop – You're going to get shuttleloop'd. Come to terms with that. Now realize if you, stay out of the air when it isn't necessary, mixup recovery patterns, and space your approach, it IS possible to MINIMALIZE your chances of being shuttleloop'd.

D-Air – Dair retreat, dair approach, dair camping.

Our uair might beat his dair, but not dair camping. Remember, his dair starts and ends faster than our uair, so all he has to do is aircamp until we throw out an uair, then he hits us. We might have more range, but not speed...

D-Smash – Near lagless and with a large error margin for MK it'll most likely be the kill move if shuttle loop isn't. Once you reach the higher percents watch for a dashattack>spotdodge>DSmash or something along those lines. The practical way to avoid it is shieldgrab after the first hit but mostly just try not to be in his range.

'Nado and 'Nado spam – An easy way for MK to rack damage or recover. DI out if you get caught in it or you'll eat damage. Kirby's FSmash beats 'nado so read the 'nado and kill the bat; Rock is risky but also breaks through the top.

How to win:
Keep the fight on the stage! – Kirby (or anyone) can't beat MK's planking. Kirby is also slow and light in the air and offstage it's a nightmare. Keep your feet planted or relatively close to the middle of the stage if you're in the air and you'll stand a better chance.

Fsmash!!!– Remember what FSmash can go through and you'll save some damage from 'nado and overB. Fsmash is most likely going to be your kill move as well so when MK starts getting to those higher percents, start refreshing the FSmash with pummels, grabs and BAir.

Grab, and grab often. – The safest way to rack some damage on MK is with a shieldgrab..or any grab for that matter! FThrow> Uair> reverse Utilt> BAir @ low percents. BThrow> instant jump> BAir to mix up or keep it simple and DThrow>UTilt. Grab> quick Pummel> UThrow around 170% for the kill or a bit earlier on platform stages.

Mix up your recovery. – I can't stress how important it is to mix up your recovery. That shuttle loop is ready for you and so is the NAir. To avoid getting killed for being predictable change up how you approach from off the stage. Off timing an air dodge, FF and UAiring to grab the ledge, UpB ledge grab, Rock!, etc; learn to be unpredictable when recovering.

DONT GET HIT. – Shield when appropriate and mindgame the **** outta this matchup to avoid getting hit. The name of the game is 'tag', and MK is it.

Spit out or Swallow?
Spit. Don't get DAir'd out of the copy. Don't get gimped from the Kirbicide. If you feel comfortable copying 'nado realize that MK can break it with FAir, DAir, etc.. It's an interesting recovery option and is faster than MKs but is it worth the added percent and the possibility of it being knocked out within two seconds? No.

What NOT to do:
Panic. – This match up is a giant mindgame. He's fast, he's strong, he combos, he's Metakniiiii. It's hard but you need to remain calm and outread this bat. Make him come to you (and he will 'til he has the percent lead) and don't get hit.

Get off the stage – You do NOT want to be in the air off the stage against a MK. Stick to the middle of the stage and the ground. Avoid being in a position to be shuttle loop'd, NAir, etc.; and for the love of Kirby remember how many jumps you've used and how many MK still has.

Rock, Hammer or UpB often. – It's mostly about not getting read or putting yourself in heavy endlag animation. All three options put you in a punishable state and are easily shielded/ avoided. If you wanna Rock/ Hammer a predictable MK's recovery, feel free, but it better be guaranteed or you'll find yourself on the short end of the blade.

Get shuttleloop'd. –

The shuttle loop is a key part of any MKs playstyle so expect it, and expect it often. Approaching Bair? Shuttleloop'd. In the air? Shuttleloop'd. Just got dair'd or dsmash'd? Shuttleloop'd. Did you just attack my shield?? Shuttle loop'd.

And after you've been shuttle loop'd, if the MK is fortunate enough to be coming towards the stage (and towards you?) expect them to attack out of the shuttle loop glide.

Stages-

The main rule in CPing is stick to where you feel comfortable because it's all in MKs favor. Some choose Brinstar, some prefer to stay on the starters; just stay in your comfort zone.

Starters: Ranked and Explained

Key: Good, Bad.

Battlefield– Reasonable blastzones, top platform = lower percent UThrow kills, it's not really bad for you but don't expect it to help. It's really just about where you feel comfortable as far as neutrals go.
PS1– Different terrains help Kirby live longer/ rack damage easier AND limits the 'nado a bit. Blast zones can help you live longer if you properly DI.
Final Destination– It's Final. It's a destination. It's the FINAL DESTINATION. Doesn't hurt, doesn't help.
Smashville– Just avoid it. Strike first and you can avoid, planking/scrooging/ etc.; just avoid!!!​

Synopsis:
Stay ****in' calm. This is a giant mindgame match up. If you can stay frosty, be unpredictable and stay outta the air, you can win. Memorize this match-up and you'll beat any scrub MK who dares pick him up just to win.; but remember, 'if it's the perfect MK, you'll have to catch that ONE mistake'. Remember your grabs, tilts and FSmash and kill the bat.

 

[A1lion835]

Have you gone to the MK boards and asked them to help?

The message I used was something like "Hello! The Kirby boards are discussing the _____ matchup and any help would be greatly appreciated. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=268913 "

and then I posted it in their matchup thread.


On to the topic of Meta Knight. He ***** us. He ***** us good.

Fsmash and FC's projectile can break through 'nado. Bair can be timed to go through MK's fair and bair. If MK breaks out of an inhale, he can footstool Kirby. He can also dair Kirby out of a copy (not sure why you'd want to get a sucky nado though) and he can also hit Kirby out of a starshot, by jumping and dairing immediately (or something like that).

As for stages, Brinstar is basically dependent on how comfortable each of you are on the stage. I believe PS1 is Kirby's best CP, although Delfino is a somewhat unorthodox (and workable) stage, and JJ might work. Definitely not RC though. I also think some people like FO for this matchup.

(I don't really know the matchup, so I'm just spewing out random facts.)

 

[Player-4]

Yeah MK ***** Kirby lol. Don't waste your time taking our nado because everything we have beats your nado, it doesn't have to be dair. Kirbycide is pretty worthless too since he doesn't have too much trouble breaking out and has the best recovery in the game.

Fsmash is your best friend in this match up since it goes through even nado and kills pretty early. You really have to just play smart and campy since MK out ranges you.

As for stages, I personally hate RC but that's me. Brinstar and Delfino are my favorites, and I wouldn't suggest Frigate since he MK can gimp you on the right side if you need to recover low. Jungle Japes is a really good MK stage as well, it favors his side-b a ton. Your best bet is probably FD or Lylat. Because I know when it comes to my stages, I hate FD, Lylat, RC (even though it's an incredible MK stage), and Yoshi's.

 

[judge!]

try and start on fd against mk....since its mks worse stage and u can kinda play around in the air a bit.

its super hard for kirby but its not impossable. try and pivot grab or ftilt if there running in. like every char dont air dodge into mk. delfino seems to work really well in the matchup. of course beware the risk of an early up b kill on one of the transformations. a lot of mks like to spot dodge after they run in bait with a back air. or wait for the dodge and grab. u can try the famos chudat grab release charge f smash....kinda works to be honest haha..

hope this helped kinda? lol

 

[Sage JoWii]

I'll go ahead and leave a few of my nuggets of info in case anyone can lead off it.

Fsmash and grabs are your best friend in this match up it seems.
At low percents, like right off the bat, you wanna use forward throws to combo. Mid percents use dthrows to rack damage and @ high percent with low ceiling, uthrow kills around 180 percent but can also add a nice chunk of damage.
Fsmash goes through 'nado and is basically what you'll either spam a lot or save for the kill. A charged up angled fsmash far enough into the stage to avoid edgecamping can be the perfect counter to a shuttle loop/glide recovering MK.

Don't bother taking the 'nado, just go for a spit under the stage lucky shot or the starspit damage.

Take to FD IMO. I've faired well there and there's wide open air, long flat stage, and decent blastzone distances. Don't expect stages to help you much through this match up but if you're going to try to CP stages, try stages that you feel comfortable on or that you may get a lucky gimp/SD.

AVOID SHUTTLE LOOP. Alter the ways you recover when knocked towards the blast zone. Go high once, go low the next time, air dodge this time, fast fall this time, etc. Just mix it up but avoid the shuttle loop.

Lastly; if it's a mediocre Metaknight, expect 'nado spam and shuttle loop kills. So learn to DI!!!!!

 

[A1lion835]

Something that I forgot to post earlier is that Kirby should NEVER use fthrow against MK. Fthrow->uair can be interrupted by a nair, and dthrow puts MK in a bad position. Most MKs will use an aerial attack after dthrow, and then you can just shield and dthrow again.

 

[C~Dog]

MKs favour (durrrr). If they know what they are doing, it's really tough. Otherwise its fun time for Kirby.

* Shuttleloop is really gay. It beats everything. If you throw out bairs to space with, you are going to hear UpB aeroplane noises. Try to bait it, then chase and dthrow.
* Tornado is not really that gay. Fsmash lol and Bair at the top.
* Dair is fairly urgh, but you can Uair it if you space correctly.
* Fair is annoying, but you can Bair it if you space correctly, it will trade hits AFAIK, but since MKs only does like 3% for the first hit, its okay.
* Use Dthrow. Its ****. At low %s, Dthrow > utilt > usmash OR bair works nicely.
* Ftilt is really annoying. Just like..shield it urrgh.
* You can take his Nado, I guess, but don't use it too much for attacking since MK was specifically designed to beat his own Nado, let alone Kirby's ****ty wannabe Nado.
* Use the Blue Kirby, it has the best matchup. Red is also acceptable.
* Stages. I have usually choose PS1 or FD. Ban RC if it is a legal stage, and maybe Halberd I guess. Picto can be a good CP sometimes.
* Fsmash kills ridiculously early, so always punish with ftilt. Dsmash and Usmash are also decent, just mix it up a bit.

Hope this helps, I'm not really that good at retrospectively analysing my playstyle. >_>

 

[TaterSalad0811]

I'm adding in MWO now.

I don't know about the F-throw combo not working, any tourney video I watch shows success with the F-throw>U-air>Pivot U-tilt>SHFFL B-air combo, but it may be not knowing the MU from 's point.

* Ftilt is really annoying. Just like..shield it urrgh.

Who's F-tilt? Kirby or Meta Knight? Either way, they both act as punishing tools, and Kirby can shield poke easily due to it's crazy disjointedness.

Ya rly.

Stages seem very controversial. I like FD simply because MK can't do any of his stage gayness, and we at least have a stage spike with a B-air on the ledges.

PS1 I have no idea. Yeah, it's a good Kirby stage, but I'm pretty sure MK has gayness there that overpowers us. Not sure, I've only actually played a legit MK there once. Ever.

 

[Asdioh]

Ok, so basically I thought of an analogy that isn't 100% accurate, but gives you an idea of the bull**** level.


Imagine you're Kirby fighting a Jigglypuff. Not an autowin, but pretty **** easy compared to most of the cast, right?

Now imagine you're MK fighting a Kirby. It's pretty much the same thing, except maybe a little bit harder, MAYBE.

Bull**** matchup.

 

[IIIIRICK]

yah this match up is REALLY gay. shuttle loop is extremely annoying.

 

[TaterSalad0811]

But if you play against a MK that gets gay with shuttle loop (as if there are MK mains that don't), it gets predictable and can be shielded more often. Just saying.

 

[C~Dog]

Just because they use a lot of shuttle loop doesn't mean it will get predictable. Not if the player is a smart one.

 

[TaterSalad0811]

How many ways can there be to shuttle loop if not when Kirby is right in front of them.

 

[~Shao~]

Shuttle loop OoS, aerial shuttle loop, reverse shuttle loop.

 

[aqua421]

this mu isn't too bad in my opinion. The only annoying thing is Mk's Ftilt and shuttle loop. Going off stage to gimp him isn't a good idea, it mostly just goes wrong when i try to do it. I have had a mk interupt the Fthrow combo with a nair but he only did it once. Otherwise grabs work really well. You can punish his Fair with a Fsmash if you shield it, mk can probably avoid it but I've done many times to good mks and they never excpect it. Bair also works really well, but when doesn't it. You just have to space it right at lower percents to avoid getting punished.

 

[TaterSalad0811]

Shuttle loop OoS, aerial shuttle loop, reverse shuttle loop.

All of which only really work if you're next to/very near MK.

 

[Sage JoWii]

All of which only really work if you're next to/very near MK.

How many tourny MK MAINs have you played against? You'd think they'd save the shuttle loop for a kill move, or at least you'd think they wouldn't use it frequently but that's incorrect.

The shuttle loop is a key part of any MKs playstyle so expect it, and expect it often. Approaching Bair? Shuttleloop'd. In the air? Shuttleloop'd. Just got dair'd or dsmash'd? Shuttleloop'd. Did you just attack my shield?? Shuttle loop'd.

And after you've been shuttle loop'd, if the MK is fortunate enough to be coming towards the stage (and towards you?) expect them to attack out of the shuttle loop glide.

With as many shuttleloop options, and even more other aerial options, the odds of it being predictable? Just chew on those words and you'll figure it out.

 

[Ledger_Damayn]

If they get percentage lead and camp with retreating Fairs for 8 minutes there is literally nothing you can do to win.

EDIT: Lol, I forgot, it's Metaknight. He doesn't HAVE to play that gay. Chances are, the Kirby will get ***** fair and square.

 

[aextreme73]

How many tourny MK MAINs have you played against? You'd think they'd save the shuttle loop for a kill move, or at least you'd think they wouldn't use it frequently but that's incorrect.

The shuttle loop is a key part of any MKs playstyle so expect it, and expect it often. Approaching Bair? Shuttleloop'd. In the air? Shuttleloop'd. Just got dair'd or dsmash'd? Shuttleloop'd. Did you just attack my shield?? Shuttle loop'd.

And after you've been shuttle loop'd, if the MK is fortunate enough to be coming towards the stage (and towards you?) expect them to attack out of the shuttle loop glide.

With as many shuttleloop options, and even more other aerial options, the odds of it being predictable? Just chew on those words and you'll figure it out.

It's just a matter of patience. I started bair'ing against MKs and they picked it up after the first two and starting shuttle looping them, no matter how well spaced. The mixups are key, because mk has the ability to counteract most approaches. Do not have tendancies and MK will have difficulty reading you. Patience + Mixups =

 

[Sage JoWii]

It's just a matter of patience. I started bair'ing against MKs and they picked it up after the first two and starting shuttle looping them, no matter how well spaced. The mixups are key, because mk has the ability to counteract most approaches. Do not have tendancies and MK will have difficulty reading you.[/IMG]

The point I'm trying to get across isn't about how you approach with bair. I'm trying to explain that shuttleloop is going to come out and if you think it's going to be predictable, realize that there are a lot of chances to get shuttle loop. I'm not trying to say that bair walls or bair approach is the best way to fight a MK. That's a small fragment of the whole point I was trying to explain.

Tl;dr: You're going to get shuttleloop'd, it probably happen fast enough you won't even know it until you're in the air flying to your death but make no mistake...it's going to happen and it's as predictable as...the number 2 following 1. Sure, it can, but you have to consider that 1.1 or 1.432435 can also follow it and NOT JUST 2.

 

[Sage JoWii]

Anyone wanna comment on MKs Nair and Dtilt> grab?

Edit: ACK?!!? I didn't realize I doubleposted. Quick, Kewkky, look the other way!!

 

[TaterSalad0811]

Tsk, tsk. You can already see how much Kewkk enjoys using his new mod powers, don't tempt him.

And all I'm saying is that while you cannot STOP 2 (or 1.1 or 1.432435) from following 1, you CAN know when they want to lay down that 1 based on their playstyle. Some MK mains like to save it, others are shuttle loop whores. Yes, that pun was intended. But in general, once you've seen when you opponent like to use it, you can, at least by game 2, be more prepared than when you first started to better your chances of avoiding shuttle loops. I in no way mean that Kirby has a fool-proof counter to shuttle loop, I'd probably find 1337f0x in the time it took me to do that. (moar puns).

And I've seen that comic before. Always makes me smile .

Anyone wanna comment on MKs Nair and Dtilt> grab?

Nair=grab? Dtilt=grab? What kind of button configuration do these guys use?

 

[aqua421]

After mk does a dtilt they pretty much go for a grab so what i like to do is just pivot grab.

 

[TaterSalad0811]

Evaluate pl0x.

Isn't the whole point of Dtilt>grab that you're grabbed while stunned? Like Falcon's jab>jab>grab.

 

[aqua421]

well i thought it only went into a grab if you tripped, maybe im just imagining things lol. Well i guess if they dont time it right it would work.

 

[Sage JoWii]

MKs sometimes dtilt to get us to trip, then grab and improve. If the dtilt doesn't trip, they rack a few more percents.

And the Nair doesn't combo into a grab. I just was saying in general, Nair is a great MK move. Rising Nair (where MK jumps while Nairing) is a great wall for when we try and recover low and is a decent move in general.

 

[aqua421]

also i dont think this was mentioned yet but kirby's pivot grab beats mk's dash attack and dash grab.

 

[Kewkky]

Edit: ACK?!!? I didn't realize I doubleposted. Quick, Kewkky, look the other way!!

*abuses mod powers*



*does nothing about it*

What? It's not like you broke a rule attempting to be a bad influence to the community. I COULD be a nazi mod, but I'm cool like this and not worry much about small things like that.

Anyone wanna comment on MKs Nair and Dtilt> grab?

Yeah, let's see... MK's nair is pretty nasty when we fall for it, but since our bair comes out fast, ends fast and is very disjointed, we won't see many nairs done against us, much less when we take the match to the ground and keep it there.

You're going to get shuttleloop'd, it probably happen fast enough you won't even know it until you're in the air flying to your death but make no mistake...it's going to happen and it's as predictable as...the number 2 following 1. Sure, it can, but you have to consider that 1.1 or 1.432435 can also follow it and NOT JUST 2.

Yeah, which is why you should avoid hitting an MK's shield... They can upB OoS and hit you while you're in hitlag frames. If you hit MK's shield with an aerial like bair, get ready to DI or shield when you land... If you powershield the shuttle loop, you can punish him for it. If you don't, then it's time to avoid getting juggled... And remember: MK's upB has invincibility frames on start-up, making it an excellent OoS option even before you hit their shields!

 

[C~Dog]

Baiting works for both players. You bait shuttle loop, they bait moves they can punish with shuttle loop.

 

[PortCity]

I'm a Diddy main and on the topic of shuttle loop, I agree it is predictable. Since MK gimps Diddy way easier than he can gimp Kirby, I've had plenty of experience of avoiding shuttle loops. They usually come out as cheap ways of getting an early kill. If I were Kirby, I'd worry less about on stage, punishment up+b's (you know the grounded ones that usually follow something miss spaced). Those are not that bad, and take a while to kill with It is the ones high in the air and near the ledge that are the ones you should ALWAYS be ready for. If you are near the ledge, and MK can do a shuttle loop and make it back on the stage, then his up+b is your main and ONLY priority. I have seen madness on the battlefield, where a person is at 20-30% getting combo'd. They are lax, thinking they can't die, then get shuttle looped with no jump left and no other option but die. So, I say this...the only thing Kirby should be REALLY worrying about are the up+b's that can kill you off the side, because those are the most devastating.

 

[Sage JoWii]

So I just went to Nikefest, a small tournament in San Antonio, and I....-cries and dies a little inside- I...I choked. Kinda. If you got knocked out of regular brackets, they had a redemption for everyone but the top 8 and I won that..but I went MK....-hides face-.

And with this extra amount of tourny experience, I'm going to put this matchup as a 60-40. IF!!! you wanna argue it being a 55-45 which sounds probable, they I need some evidence. FOR EXAMPLE!:

I believe it's 60-40 because @ HIGH LEVEL PLAY! <---underline, a MK main, is going to beat a Kirby main. In theory, there a chance that the Kirby can win but I feel in tournament play with as large an error margin MK has, and as little room for error Kirby has, it's just too hard of a match-up. MK is faster, and has an easier time getting kills. He has a superb recovery and if a MK plays the matchup perfectly, there's too little a chance that Kirby will actually win.

Agree with 60-40 (a matchup ratio based on theory BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY also based on high level tournament play.) or choose to argue the 55-45 with a similarly explanatory argument as my above example.

 

[Ledger_Damayn]

60-40 doesn't mean the MK is GOING to win. It means that he's got better odds than the Kirby if both of them know the matchup.

I consider the percentage where it's "no win" to start at around 70-30, which is where I would put this matchup. Mistakes aside, once the MK knows the matchup, we lose our options. If they know which attacks we can bair through and when, MK has the option to do no punishable actions. Just having that option pushes this matchup easily into the unwinnable range. I happen to play with a Metaknight who is willing to poke me then camp the ledge and the stage with retreating fair walls. It sucks. It's how he beats Warios too.

Most MK's don't play that gay/perfectly though, so we can still bair them through aerials, bait bad shuttle loops, and heaven forbid successfully edgeguard them, so for that reason, I see this one staying at 60-40. 55-45 is laughably inaccurate though. There is nothing neutral about this matchup.

 

[TaterSalad0811]

...

Fine, 60-40...

So who's next, Snake?

 

[Asdioh]

I consider the percentage where it's "no win" to start at around 70-30, which is where I would put this matchup. Mistakes aside, once the MK knows the matchup, we lose our options. If they know which attacks we can bair through and when, MK has the option to do no punishable actions. Just having that option pushes this matchup easily into the unwinnable range. I happen to play with a Metaknight who is willing to poke me then camp the ledge and the stage with retreating fair walls. It sucks. It's how he beats Warios too.

Most MK's don't play that gay/perfectly though, so we can still bair them through aerials, bait bad shuttle loops, and heaven forbid successfully edgeguard them, so for that reason, I see this one staying at 60-40. 55-45 is laughably inaccurate though. There is nothing neutral about this matchup.

This is why matchup discussions are dumb :/

You're saying (correctly I believe) that it's 70:30, and yet "most MKs don't play that way" so it's 60:40? Think about what you're saying. We're talking about how ideally both players would play.

70:30 sounds good to me

 

[Sage JoWii]

IF you guys agree with the match-up being the most ideal (which sounds correct) then 70-30.
IF it's the common match-up aka not a perfect MK, then 60-40.

Let's get a common agreement.

 

[TaterSalad0811]

I still say 60-40, seeing as Kirby can at least TRY to compete with range and in the air, and it's not unwinnable, make no mistake. I also feel the same way about Ice Climbers.

 

[Kewkky]

It's 70:30 with no limits on planking, scrooging, tornado spamming or dair camping.

It's 55:45 when they're not allowed to play gay.

It's 60:40 when they can play gay, but can't plank or scrooge.


You decide. Since the export is always open, I'll write up something when I have my laptop back.

 

[TaterSalad0811]

Im going with the "Planking/Scrooging (who comes up with these names, totally not self-explanatory) is banned" matchup, because while it's not in the BBR ruleset (which is pretty old, by the way), most tournaments ban it regardless.

40-60

 

[A1lion835]

ideally

ideal

http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=43321

70-30 sounds right, though.

 

[Kewkky]

I strongly dislike the 30:70 ratio... It'd be a better idea to use the 40:60 one because, like tater said, tourneys ban planking or scrooging (or implement an LGL) regardless of the BBR's Recommendations... Even more so knowing that the BBR is currently having heated discussions of what can be done to stop MK's abuse of 'gay ledge tactics'. Soooo, knowing this, it's pretty much assured that MK's ledge-camping days are seeing an end eventually. 40:60 should be the ratio.

With MK not able to plank or scrooge against us, we take the fight to the stage or the air rather than offstage, and that's where we can have a good match against MK. We can space our bairs and ftilts, as well as punish with shieldgrabs and dtilts. Tornados and sideBs are both broken by our fsmash, and we can also spike them out of their sideB with out dair (I gimp MKs in PR and gimped some at Pound4 this way, so I can tell you it works) whenever they aim for the ledges with it. We can also hit them with a dair out of their aerial upB, meaning that if they don't react fast enough while offstage, they just got spiked to their doom. Our grab has deceptive range, so learn what you can shieldgrab and from where... I've shieldgrabbed MK's dtilt/ftilt/fair/nair/tornado (inorite?!), and dthrow/uthrow are your best throws in this MU (uthrow to kill, try after 170% since MK survives longer than he should), but still throw out surprise bthrow>bairs and fthrow>uair>reverse utilt>bairs whenever they're at low %s and you remember to do so.

I always take MKs to Battlefield, that stage never fails me. That was the stage I took Se!brik's MK (avoiding namesearch) as well when I was there, and won with no problems at all. If we play well and take advantage of the stage's positioning, we can take the upper hand and maintain it throughout the whole match. Don't take MK to SmashVille for obvious reasons (planking/scrooging/platform camping central), FinalDestination is an OK stage... That's it for neutrals.

Counters... I still take them to Battlefield! I have no idea. I always play my sets in the starter stages... Just choose whichever stage you feel is least beneficial for MK (FinalDestination?), or whichever you feel most comfortable with... I've heard people say they like PS1 against MK, so go ahead.


So! Watch out for his gimping abilities, recover high, outspace him, shieldgrab a lot, punish with bairs and refresh your moves with pummels and tilts, and break through his sideB/tornado with fsmash. You can go on a whole match without using fsmash even once, so don't worry if you don't find chances to use it... Just concentrate on refreshing your bair with pummels, and kill with it (at high %s, it's a player thing to always get more defensive as to avoid killing moves... Use this to your advantage and shieldgrab them, going for pummels or uthrows anywhere you feel you can kill MK from!)... Just remember to avoid his SL offstage, always DI up, SDI his fair, DON'T inhale (our tornado SUCKS in this MU), and punish his shields with grabs if he's starting to upB OoS a lot.


Dunno what else to say randomly.