Match Up Export - Bowser

[UltimaLuminaire]

oh it does.

Yes, you'll make progress, but the degree will vary depending on who you're playing. Against most Bowsers, the pressure will cause them to make a mistake, giving you a free opportunity to do some severe punishing. However, as mentioned by Ziggs and Limit, more experienced Bowsers won't lose their cool and you may find yourself at the receiving end of an u-tilt if you aren't careful.

This can't be repeated enough: get Bowser into the air. How you do it really doesn't matter; bait him, pound him, threaten to kick him out of your house. The sooner you can chase Bowser through the air with your aerials, the better.

Also, never expect a decent Bowser player to roll. Ever. We don't do that **** becuase our roll sucks. We experience better evasion just by turning around. True story.jpg

 

[Deleted member 189823]

I actually use Bowser AND Jiggs, but Ive actually never played the MU lol. Ill find someone who knows the other character, I know someone who uses Bowser and Jiggs here, so Ill ask them to play and use the other character.

Hey there.

 

[Lukingordex]

Not much to say for this MU,but Bowser is not a good match for jigglypuff...

He can kill jiggly at 70% lol.

For me,its a +2 advantage for. Jigglypuff´s good recovery and combos save him from getting a -3 @.@

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

From her*

:mink:

 

[Z'zgashi]

Lukinhasss, Bowser literally needs to hit jiggs like, twice, then grab her and she's dead. Im not even exaggerating this, Bowser literally kills Jiggs THAT early.

 

[Lukingordex]

I´ve put the wrong numbers.
Sorry.

For me its +2 advantage for Bowser.

And yeah Z´zgashi,you´re right.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

I personally think it's +1 for bowser.

 

[Z'zgashi]

I personally think it's +2 for bowser.

 

[GeneralWoodman]

Bowser doesn't have to try. But a try-hard jiggz CAN win +2 though!

 

[jigglover]

Well, bowser is slow, so be quick. if he's charging up an attack, leg/jump over it or use sing if playing 1V1. If he launches giga bowser just try and stay on the side with his shell (back) and he can't hurt you, unless he charges on that side, in that case run. If he is locked in flamethrower against another person, creep up behind him and use rest to send him hurtling into space. I just want to ask one thing also: how the heck do you hit anyone with rest, I've tried it in training as far as I can physically get into the player and still nothing.

Oh... numbers. +1 over bowser, +2 is pushing it a bit...

 

[Desu~]

Well, bowser is slow, so be quick. if he's charging up an attack, leg/jump over it or use sing if playing 1V1. If he launches giga bowser just try and stay on the side with his shell (back) and he can't hurt you, unless he charges on that side, in that case run. If he is locked in flamethrower against another person, creep up behind him and use rest to send him hurtling into space. I just want to ask one thing also: how the heck do you hit anyone with rest, I've tried it in training as far as I can physically get into the player and still nothing.

Oh... numbers. +1 over bowser, +2 is pushing it a bit...

Yeah kinda agree with you. A really good Puff that knows how to counter Bowser's best move could have a max of +1 to Bowser's favor

 

[Z'zgashi]

lukinhasss, bowser literally needs to hit jiggs like, twice, then grab her and she's dead. Im not even exaggerating this, bowser literally kills jiggs that early.

+ 2

 

[Lukingordex]

Well,I played this MU recently,and I think a +1 or a +2 for Bowser is fair.

 

[#HBC | J]

-1 for Jiggy, imo. Bowser doesn't necessarily counter the poor puffball but does have the advantage in this MU over her.

-2 for her seems a bit...well exaggerated. (sorry ZZ! ^^")

 

[Z'zgashi]

Coming from someone who mains Bowser, plays against Jiggs often, and also dabbles in playing Jiggs, this MU is soooooo simple for Bowser. Like, I just fair and klaw, and nothing jiggs has beats it, then if I get one read at 50%, I either get grab > gr > uair which kills, or some big damage. And when it comes to Jiggs against Bowser, while youd think 'WALL OF PAIN HIM' its REALLY hard for Jiggs to get Bowser offstage. REALLY hard. And without that, she cant kill Bowser at all, and wont even kill with rest until over 100%. Bowser just needs to keep his distance, poke at jiggs, then he kills her stupidly low, and doesnt die until at least 160. Also, Bowser has decent air speed (12th best in game), and although is not as good as Jiggs', is enough to make fair more than safe. Bowser is better at controlling space/the stage, kills early, lives forever, hits harder, has range, and does more on a read as well as needs less reads to win. Id say its a SOLID -2.

EDIT: Also, I forgot to mention that Jiggs CANNOT attack Bowser safely. If Bowser shields anything, its a free up b, utilt, klaw, nair, or fair OoS.

 

[SoulPech]

I feel this is a 35:65 in favor of Bowser. I do agree with everything Z'z has posted. Bowser is just a difficult character to get in with all of his OOS options. It may just be my playstyle, but as soon as I get bowser up in the air or offstage, it's easier for her, but the challenge is getting him there. side b on top platform will kill jiggs at like 60 O.O

If we are going by the point rating, I'd say -1.5 on Jiggs, but...that's just dumb.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I can't see any reason to ever put yourself in a situation to get grabbed by Bowser

I mean fair enough if we needed to be in grab range to do **** and then we make a technical mistake or something

but puff never needs to commit to anything so lol

inb4 "oh then how is she going to hit bowser smart-ass" Safe pressure, Bowser's grab isn't going to surprise you; you'd have to approach stupidly or **** something up in front of him AND THEN **** UP AGAIN to get hit by it.

EDIT: Also, I forgot to mention that Jiggs CANNOT attack Bowser safely. If Bowser shields anything, its a free up b, utilt, klaw, nair, or fair OoS.

LOL this isn't even true in the slightest.

Nair and fair are like frame 8 + his 8 frame jump... no way that's hitting
utilt and side-b are like 7 frames shield-drop + 8 frames for the move... same thing, not gonna hit
Up-b OoS will hit if the aerial isn't spaced properly, but that is really the only thing with any semblance of truth in there

I'm inclined to not believe anything you said now wtf

 

[Desu~]

But seriously, i don't care if that's being free or whatsoever.
But watch out for that fsmash.
It caught me off guard so much it's ********.

 

[teluoborg]

Grim before you start using frame data into your argument you better check it.
Because pulling out random numbers just to sound legit doesn't help in anything at all.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Excuse me for not knowing Bowser's frame data off by heart XD

Regardless of 'frame data', it is not possible for Bowser to hit with any of the moves he mentioned, aside from up-b, OoS against a Puff who is spacing properly. The actual specific frames don't matter, I was just illustrating how slow his options are.

 

[teluoborg]

The frame data does matter, you're just too lazy to actually check it out.

It's better for everyone if you don't post anything in this case.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

And you're too lazy to correct me? And no, the frame data doesn't matter in my above post because I wasn't actually comparing the speeds of two different things; I was PURELY showing that the moves are very slow, being off by 1 or 2 frames would mean NOTHING in this context.

I got my numbers from this thread: http://www.smashboards.com/threads/bowser-frame-data-in-depth-and-accurate.206219
I said 'like 7 frames' because I never trust frame data that other people provide whole-heartedly, but it sounded right to me

 

[teluoborg]

Why are you being so ******** ? Why should it be my task to prove if your claims are right or wrong ?

Jiggs' frame advantage on shield :
Fair : -15/25 with sourspot, -24/25 with sweetspot
Nair : -12/32 with sourspot, -32/34 with sweetspot
Bair : -17/20

Bowser's OOS data :
Up B : frame 6
Grab : frame 9
Usmash : frame 16
Nair/Fair : frame 17
Shield drop Jab : frame 13
Shield drop Utilt : frame 15

http://opensa.dantarion.com/autoframe/FitPurin.php
http://www.smashboards.com/threads/jigglypuff-frame-data.216922/
http://opensa.dantarion.com/autoframe/FitKoopa.php
http://www.smashboards.com/threads/bowser-frame-data-in-depth-and-accurate.206219/

See this is how you make a post about options. Now I advise you to stop posting until you get yourself a proper methodology.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Why so antagonistic? Point is, I was right. Nair/Fair are super slow (I was a frame off), and utilt is 15 which is exactly what I said.

It's not your task to prove anything, it's just good manners and common sense that if you think someone is wrong, you explain why.

I have never seen anyone follow your 'format' before (with every option listed and 4 websites linked as sources), people just give frame data by itself usually, so this suite must really annoy you with how ******** everyone is?

Anyway, Puff's lack of advantage on shield (which I was very much aware of) doesn't matter because she can still drift out of the way of those moves during their horrendous start-up. If Bowser could punish her on shield like that, every single character in the hand could - my experience tells me that that's nonsense.

 

[teluoborg]

How far can you retreat in 1/4th of a second after hitting anyone's shield with something that has moderate range and no disjoint ?

Spoiler : everyone can punish Jiggs out of shield

Ultra spoilers : Jiggs is bottom tier.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Far enough to not get hit by SH fair, especially since she pulls her leg back in. 1/4 of a second is a pretty long time.

I'd have to see video evidence of puff getting hit by something OoS to believe it. I've played this character for years and no one has capitalized on properly spaced bair hitting shield, ever. I'm pretty sure the other puffs disagree with you as well, seeing as she has -1 MUs on the chart (all of her MUs would be -2 or worse if she couldn't even touch shields).

 

[Jigglypawf]

I just try grabbing to rack up damage on Bowser, And possible make them paranoid and scare them into their shield possibly. Of course I suck at this MU and at the game in general,so what do I know

 

[Desu~]

Make a Bowser player scared?
This guy got a jab, a ftilt, a side-B and a Up-B that completely destroy every Jigglypuff's options.
You make a slip up and it's gonna cost your stock.
I fell into so many ******** fsmashes it made me cry inside.

 

[SoulPech]

this MU is dumb. Here's how it goes:

Bowser on stage? You'll die

Bowser in the Air? You have some options

Bowser offstage? You have more options

the issue is getting him offstage. dair + rest will kill at 115% on most stages and her main kill moves (utilt and fair) will kill at around 130-140% fresh depending on their DI while Bowser can kill you as early as 70%.

 

[Jigglymaster]

this MU is dumb. Here's how it goes:

Bowser on stage? You'll die

Bowser in the Air? You have some options

Bowser offstage? You have more options

the issue is getting him offstage. dair + rest will kill at 115% on most stages and her main kill moves (utilt and fair) will kill at around 130-140% fresh depending on their DI while Bowser can kill you as early as 70%.

Don't forget the part where he grab release to u-air kills you at 50%.

 

[Angiance]

Bowser is fat~

 

[Jigglymaster]

Bowser is fat~

He's an Acrofatic