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Match up Export #13: Olimar | New Discussion

Robfox

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 24, 2009
Messages
1,120
Location
Lancaster PA, Campin away wit Fox & TL
well i was personally looking into the match up before brood *****, it was just luck that brood made an appearance like he did. TKD said btw that Brood claims that this is a 50/50 match up. Discuss?

R U serious 0_o
wow I always had a problem with Oli.....but idk about 50/50
His camp is better than ours nd it's kinda hard to get around his reach
 

M.C. Pee-Pants

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 4, 2009
Messages
272
Location
Norcross GA
To be honest, I believe the best way to beat Olimar is to just run up to him and grab.

I remember talking to Pyronic Star/Logic a long time ago and he was talking to be about how all Olimar does is grab and smash, or camp. Use Fox's speed to close the gap extremely quickly to grab and forward throw or back throw the Olimar depending on stage positioning. You are going to want to keep Olimar off the stage. Time your edgeguard as well as your attack. Wait for the whistle and regrab or empty SHFF at the Oli and intercept again.
I dont agree on this foxes grab is way to slow to just do that and plus the olimar wouldnt even let u get that close in the first place he might just piviot grab or do some other things this mu is much harder than it sounds in my point of view since I use both characters oli has the biggest advantage on the ground so pretty much its gonna be a campy fight not including if the oli grabs at a low percent he can rack up the damage
 

GUARD

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
263
Location
Canada, Qc
R U serious 0_o
wow I always had a problem with Oli.....but idk about 50/50
His camp is better than ours nd it's kinda hard to get around his reach

I do agree that Olimar is better than Fox.......... but not in camping. Lasers STOP all Pikmans (I think besides purple).... and RIGHT AFTER you laser, you may shine (with no lag) and shine works on ALL pikmans (including purple). Since the Olimars I`ve played enjoy punishing me rather than being super offensive.... I tend to rely on lasers and shine more than ANY of my other attacks..(I still use others of course.lol).......oh, and the famous up-smash (or down smash).

and neutral air IS very good I find since it may accually go through Olimars UP-smash if spaced right. ( which I allways found wierd.lol)
 

Asdioh

Not Asidoh
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
16,200
Location
OH
I don't have too extensive knowledge of this matchup, but I have learned a few things:

-Olimar's Uptilt beats the hell out of Fox's Dair. The priority on that move is insane.

-Olimar's Nair is very good as well.

-Fox should be able to outcamp Olimar if he has enough room, which is why I prefer larger stages like FD. SHTL forms the perfect barrier to stop Pikmin throws, because of the angle Olimar throws them. Fox can also Reflect the Pikmin back onto Olimar, which is semi-useful.

-If a Pikmin is stuck on you, Uptilt it if it's on your head, or Nair if it's on your front. Most other moves don't get them off nearly as reliably or safely, I think.

-Getting CGed at low percents sucks, but it's not too big of a deal.

-Watch out in the air. Fox can generally beat Olimar in the air, but you have to be very careful about it. Olimar's aerials aren't to be underestimated.
 

Robfox

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 24, 2009
Messages
1,120
Location
Lancaster PA, Campin away wit Fox & TL
Nair is the best solution 2 fight Oli
Nair, lasers, reflector R all U need
if you haven't noticed Nair goes through most if not all Oli's moves
Again I suggest watching Yui vs Brood real good matches nd alotta knowledge to get there :p
 

GUARD

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
263
Location
Canada, Qc
Nair is the best solution 2 fight Oli
Nair, lasers, reflector R all U need
if you haven't noticed Nair goes through most if not all Oli's moves
Again I suggest watching Yui vs Brood real good matches nd alotta knowledge to get there :p


What you say is TOTALLY true. we just have to be carefull since Olimar most probably either grab us or U-smash us (when were in killing %) if he shields our N-air.

but your sooo right.....shine, lasers and N-air is the way to go........and U-smash at the end of course.lol still though, this is no easy match-up.....
 

Elite Cowdung

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 7, 2011
Messages
20
just like with almost all top teir fox just cant do anything because olimar just chains grabs up to 50% then juggles to death from there
 

TKD

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 25, 2007
Messages
1,587
Location
Tijuana, México
/\ At a certain percent like from 10 maybe (you don't react to the first grab and have too much damage to struggle out of the second), but from zero, it's a sure no (if he grabs you from afar, he may not have the chance to throw even once). This should be tested with someone that knows how to struggle and someone that can dthrow asap with oli (it's not easy since there's no buffer).

vs Olimar you have to learn to space nair. You have to space it right into Olimar from a full hop or platform drop (from full jump, you should fast-fall it), so it feels like it'll hit no matter which side he moves to. You also have to activate it a bit early so it counters usmash if he does it. Once nair hits, you combo from there (buffergrab/walkgrab/dash attack/usmash: depends).

The tricky part is that you also have to hit him at the side or his back once you're there and drift away from him if he blocks, so he whiffs usmash if he does it and you can then dash attack him, jab to clash with it and then punish or just move away. I think nair is very important as you can guess.

I also think it's best to move onto platforms so pikmin never latch onto you. Shining a white may be pretty good but remember that pitmin toss is the only move in the game you can't hop after reflecting (what's wrong with you sakurai?). Some of the best moves to use if they do is AC full hop dair onto platform, and shine which takes them off in one blow but doesn't work on yellows. Blocking and air-dodging the latched pikmin's hits around can work too LOL...but if it's best to focus on the Oli because he's going for offense, then do that. The only move I've used to get pikmin off of Fox's ears is utilt (shine doesn't reach LOL), but I haven't tried fsmash, usmash, nor sideb (maybe it takes them off quickly :O). Dash away +usmash sounds pretty good for it...

Anyway, use the safe approaches and live in the air. Sneak blasters in when you can (eg when falling from plat since it takes much less time than sh blaster). Having the lead and escaping is a good idea. Olimar's a slow char.

As for Oli chasing you at the air, dair trades with 2 hits of Oli's uair so it's easy for it to counter it, and air-dodging (with fast-fall if you can) when you think the opponent will hop to try to catch you is great: Oli will be above you or stuck in an aerial's animation which is bad for him. Dair beats his usmash too btw, but it's easy for him to block+usmash so be aware of that.

To juggle Oli, watch out for his aerials, try to block and punish them, or bait them (so you can dash attack a whiffed aerial or an air-dodge). If you get directly below Oli, tipper utilt from below works like it does vs most chars. Walk up block works to shield-grab many of his landings too.

CP stages I recommend are Stadium 2, Stadium, and Battlefield, in that order. Lylat is good too because of the platforms: low and numerous for easy approaching. Illusion cancel level 3 from one side of the stage to a platform on the other is something Olimar simply can't catch up to. Full jump + airjump fair + shines are great for making time, and the level 3 illusion if you need it or is a free escape is icing on the cake.

That's why it's best to avoid the pikmin latches: for the advantage in damage, so you can pressure the opponent with the timer.
Easier said than done. You need to practice it. You need to FEEL it. You have to get used to controlling Fox. I got ***** in several friendlies before learning this x)
Oh yeah struggle out of Oli's cg.
 

C.R.Z

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 11, 2008
Messages
1,251
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London
/\ At a certain percent like from 10 maybe (you don't react to the first grab and have too much damage to struggle out of the second), but from zero, it's a sure no (if he grabs you from afar, he may not have the chance to throw even once). This should be tested with someone that knows how to struggle and someone that can dthrow asap with oli (it's not easy since there's no buffer).



Easier said than done. You need to practice it. You need to FEEL it. You have to get used to controlling Fox. I got ***** in several friendlies before learning this x)
Oh yeah struggle out of Oli's cg.
i agree
 

TKD

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 25, 2007
Messages
1,587
Location
Tijuana, México
New game plan on oli: Approach and be crazy.
Like, you can blaster him, but he'll win out with SH pikmin toss. The thing about his SH pikmin toss is that it puts him in the air, so there's a chance to zone him. Once you've zoned him you can do a ton of things to him.
You need to be good with your juggles: tipper uair airjumped or sh autocanceled, block aerial and dash attack/dash usmash, lots of grabs and utilt, dash attack if he airdodges too soon.
Falling nair from full hop into him is a pretty good edgeguard if he has to airjump+upb, even though it's probably easy to whistle it can somehow work. So it's worth a try sometimes. Airjump nair not so much because you're in big risk by spending your airjump.
Forcing him to airjump or upb and grab releasing him when possible will net you a stock. Also for the ledgehog, if you want to make sure just grab the ledge and DI diagonally away from the stage + upwards, so his upb can't stagespike.
Nair and dair counter his usmash. Nair is best to space so he can't usmash it from block (ALTHOUGH the yellow will probably reach because of the even more ridiculous hitbox).
Yellow pikmin will be a pain. Shine takes every other pikmin off unless they're on your ears, cases in which you can only utilt, dash usmash away from oli, or ignore it and go do some damage.
Oli CAN cg fox turns out: it's regular dthrow, to buffered dashgrab dthrow. So be quick to struggle out at low percents so the first throw doesn't come up. Also try to **** him for trying too hard to grab you if he does. If he's trying so hard to land grabs, AC fair can actually mess him up because you're only inactive for 2 frames upon landing with autocancels.

Weirdteresting match-up. I think it's even, but then again I think most match-ups are. It may be in oli's advantage slightly because the mix-up for him to get away from momentum is pretty simple (you have to bait his fair if he'll do it because you can't dash shield in time and if he doesn't fair he lands back safely). If you do care about having an easier match-up there's playing as diddy or falco against him. Diddy is probably the more balanced choice as a 2nd because i think he beats marth, ic, and pika too, and doesn't really have any counters.
 
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