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Match-Up Discussion: Zelda

Xyro77

Unity Ruleset Committee Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
Messages
17,885
Location
Houston,Tx


How do we win?
What do we watch out for?
Stages to BAN/CP?
Tips/Tricks when fighting this character?
Videos?
MU classification?




Remember, we are not using the "mu ratio" scheme anymore. Describe the MU using the following MU classifications:


Heavy Disadvantage
Disadvantage
Slight Disadvantage
Even
Slight Advantage
Advantage
Heavy Advantage
 

Fuujin

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 17, 2009
Messages
2,653
Location
Double posting in ur threads.
Camp your heart out, treat her like a slightly smaller/faster Ganondorf.
N air din's fire.
SDI side smash.
Charge shot/D tilt/Side Smash her recovery.
Z air her off stage.
Punish her reflector.

60-40 Samus
 

Darkshadow7827

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 21, 2007
Messages
1,532
Location
Lower reaches of Shelbrunkand
I have a bit of trouble in this MU. My friend who got me into competitive Brawl uses Zelda as his low tier. Keep in mind that he's generally a better player than me. I have no problem in gauging her recovery for gimps though. I tend to get caught by her Uair since I have a bad habit of trying to FF uair > follow up (up B, dsmash). The only gimmick I've seen him do is UpB cancel at the ledge - to clarify, up B transport to ledge > lagless (?) > sweet spot fair or bair depending on if the opponent is recovering. Sorry if I'm not being clear. I'm not informed on all the ATs of Zelda.

As opposed to act like I know what I'm talking about, I'd rather address problems I have, such as:
-How/can we DI or SDI out of her Fsmash or Usmash. It seems like no matter how much I SDI, I don't go anywhere.
-Does Nair-ing Din's Fire negate the hitbox or something? That's an interesting piece of advice.
-I personally just need to learn the range of her attacks.
 

Crystanium

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
5,921
Location
California
When Zelda uses Din's Fire, she's vulnerable. If she uses it in the air, she's stuck in that animation until she is grounded. Minimize the use of d-air on Zelda. Samus beats Zelda in the camping game. Z-air to your hearts content. Utilize the Charge Shot in an unpredictable manner. If Samus uses an aerial Homing Missile or z-air, it is usually noticeable that Samus will use the Charge Shot. Don't do that here. If you plan on using your Charge Shot, be ready to put up your shield.
 

Nyr

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 3, 2008
Messages
41
Location
The Netherlands
Please note that most of this information is actually rather obvious. However, it does contain some things you might not know about. Most of the things are mentioned in the three posts before this one, however; this is more of a guide which practically lays everything out for you.

Well, this is one of those matchups you won't see too often, but seeing as I play both Zelda and Samus, and happen to have some sort of knowledge in this matchup, I'd like to share my views with you all. A big disclaimer, however: there're very few pure Zelda players. Probably 95% of all Zeldas you'll see are actually playing Sheilda and have gotten you to a high percentage before going to Zelda, which changes this matchup immensely. I'll discuss both cases individually, however, I won't go over how to play the Sheik part of Sheilda.

With that out of the way, let me start.


Pure Zelda

How do we win?
Patience is the key here, as it is in most of Samus' matchups. What Zelda wants you to do, as Fuujin jokingly has as his avatar, is to approach. She can then safely react with smash attacks such as Usmash. However, seeing as we have no reason to approach, we shouldn't, unless you are behind in percentage. In that case, please refer to the Sheilda part of this matchup, which will treat Zelda as if you have higher damage.

Continuing from what I said earlier, we have no reason to approach. We've got various camping tools at our disposal; we can use homing missiles safely (and I recommend this), super missiles are relatively safe (but watch out for surprise Nayru's Loves), Zair (another recommendation) and finally, we can even use Charge Shot pretty well on Zelda, but again, watch out for that Nayru's Love. Like Dryn mentioned, don't use it in a predictable way, and be prepared to put up your shield.

If you just calmly keep putting on the pressure, she'll have to approach sooner or later, since Din's fire won't be able to camp us out. To create space, you should use your Ftilt or Jab, and up-b OOS if she ever gets in your shield.

Tl;dr: Camp her out. When she approaches, just Ftilt or Jab. Up-b oos when you're in trouble.

What do we watch out for?
Well, seeing as Zelda doesn't have many options except for approaching as we're camping her, there aren't many things to look out for.
As I mentioned earlier, Nayru's Love might be a problem, but putting up your shield will fix most of that.
Don't fear Din's Fire. When we're camping, she can't use it safely, because the move is extremely slow and this simply means that one of our missiles or our Zair would've reached in the meantime, causing the blast to happen a mile behind you.
When she's approaching, simply watch out for Nair. This move is Zelda's main approaching move, and it has some nifty features, such as that it autocancels on hits 1-4. She'll try to land behind you with this move, which forces us in a bad position. However, if we can simply prevent this from happening, there's no need to fear her approach either. And we can! We can simply put up our shields and up-b out while she's nairing our shield and nearing the ground. Afterwards, we can go on with camping. We can't put on our shields all the time, however, because she might just grab us out of it. The other option is to simply wait for the jump and ftilt when you see her jumping, however, this requires you to pay accurate attention. This also beats her earlier mentioned form of approaching (going for the grab).
Desperate Zeldas might try to hit you with a Up-b. However, this is usually predictable and punishable, so just be patient.

Tl;dr: Punish her Nair by up-bing out of shield. Or just use Ftilt to keep her away.

DI'ing against Zelda's FSmash, DTilt and USmash
I'd like to make an apart section on how to DI against Zelda's most dangerous moves. This information is taken directly from the Zelda FAQ, and I should not be credited for this information in any way.

1. How do you SDI Zelda's Fsmash?
- Push up and away with both sticks. You cant punish Zelda after SDIing. Occasionally you pop over and behind her, setting you up for another move.

2. How do you SDI Zelda's Usmash?
- Quarter-circle SDI straight up with both sticks. Only Marth, Lucario, Pit, Ice Climbers, Ness, Lucas and Samus can reliably SDI out of Usmash. If you are caught at the tip, you can SDI to fall out on the side - works especially well if your character is small. A staled Usmash becomes harder to SDI out of.

3. How do you SDI Zelda's Nair?
- The hits of Nair stun and drag you back in. Zelda has semi-control over your character's SDI based on its trajectory. SDI in the route you think is quickest to get out. You cannot SDI if it hits you when grounded and it's being autocancelled.

4. How do you SDI Zelda's Dtilt lock?
- SDI sharply away from her with both sticks. You may trip in the process!
Stages to BAN/CP?
Rainbow Cruise is an absolute disaster for us. We won't be able to camp easily and it forces us to move around. Ban this.
Brinstar is another one of those stages which isn't really that great for us, but it isn't great for Zelda either. It simply depends on whether you know the ins and outs of the stage.
I wouldn't say ban, but Yoshi's Island simply isn't a very good stage for us. The Shy Guys might block our projectiles and I, for one, don't like the curving of the stage. Also, the ghosts are stupid. Just try to avoid it.

Final Destination is probably our best stage. The size of the stage allows camping and the ledges make it somewhat hard for Zelda to sweet spot the edge (though this shouldn't be a problem for most of them). You might just score an easy kill.
Battlefield is another stage which serves us well. This should be self-explainatory, since it works for most of our matchups.
The rest of the stages are pretty equal or a slight advantage for Samus.

Matchup classification
I'd say it's an advantage for us. Samus has a lot she can easily do, but she has to be on her toes and has to keep playing a solid camping game.




Sheilda

This part of the 'guide' will consider that your opponent has you near 110% with Sheik, and has switched to Zelda safely. He is now at an advantage, because Sheik beats Samus most of the time, and, assuming Sheik indeed beats Samus, will cause you to have higher damage than her. This changes the matchup by a lot. A smart Sheilda player will, however, stay Sheik, since the matchup Sheik - Samus is far easier than Zelda - Samus.
This part also applies to when you are behind in percentage against a pure Zelda player.

How do we not lose a stock?
Assuming you are indeed behind, you have to look out for Zelda's many killing moves. The pattern stays relatively the same; we'll still be camping using our Zair and Homing Missiles, and she'll still be trying to get in by powershielding and Nairing in our shields. The most important thing is to stay calm. We still don't have to approach, so don't do so, unless you see an opening. Don't do things like Dair on her shield, because you will get downsmashed which will make you lose an stock. Avoid Up-b and start Ftilting more often, since Zelda will be aggressive, wanting to get that stock off you so she can change back into Sheik.

So, simply put, just do the same as you do against Zelda, but stay calm at all times.




If you are losing at ANY time against a Zelda player, he is outsmarting you. Find out why he is hitting you, and why you aren't hitting him. Mix things up a little, but remember: STAY CALM. Patience is a virtue, and especially in this matchup.

And for those who think I shouldn't waste my time on writing about this matchup since it is so blatantly obvious, I feel that it improves my personal game and I also like to write, so ha. It might also help some others who actually have problems in this matchup.
 

waldorf2007

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Messages
921
Location
Raleigh, NC
NNID
Waldorf2007
I know little more about this matchup than spam and stay calm (and it's served me well) but there is one thing that I've been ***** by multiple times: uair punishing up B. many times I've up B'd in a sticky situation, and Zelda has perfectly shielded it until I was up, and immediately jump uaired my to death at <90%.
Just be careful with up B because Zelda players may figure out they can do that.
And sorry if my characters are deceptive, I've played samus as my second since after the first month of brawl.
 
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