Match-Up Chart (Outdated); please refer to the new chart.

[hungrybox]

Worst post ever. So Kage goes 1-1 vs Mango's puff and you're "pretty sure" Ganon kinda hits puff and wins and stuff or something. Dr. PP beats Hungrybox once (isn't his overall record vs hbox miserable?) and we're back in 2009 where everyone is stupid and doesn't know how to play puff and hurls themselves off the ledge to their doom because puff has charmed them into doing so.

I'm really scared to even ask what hbox's record against falcos is. It's really discouraging to see puff lose once and we're right back to the people don't play puff correctly nonsense.

smart post is smart.

PP's the first Falco I lost to in a tournament set in the past....two years?

Our record in sets is 4-1 my favor.

But anyways, back on topic. Jiggs v. falco is 55-45 in Jiggs favor.

imo.

And for the record some of the DUMBEST posts on SWF came after Kage beat Mango...

Saying that Ganon beats jigglypuff in matchups is....horrendous.

 

[Roneblaster]

everything is harder than it sounds.

that wasnt my point though. My point was that literally no top player has even tried/attempted to stick exclusively to either strategy and since we've never seen it, we assume it 'doesnt work" because "it if worked, people would do it".

Its sad however that people refuse to play this way because its "boring" or too much like brawl or whatever the case may be.

My only point is that jiggs' main strength is that her ridiculous punish game allows her to beat pretty much everyone and kill at literally any time and for some characters, you literally cant even do basic things like GRAB her because you die for it. so when you fight jiggs, you have to absolutely minimize her chance's to punish you, while simultaneously maximizing damage output.

the two strategies i've listed are probably the safest way of minimizing punish/maximizing damage output vs jiggs in the entire game and yet no one does it. people always get 'bored' or cocky and eventually run in and try to do something then get rested.

the fox one is particularly good because fox is fast enough to almost literally never get hit by puff if he's smart. She can only either come at him from an even plane in which case he just jumps over her because her vertical acceleration is trash and runs to the other side and shoots more lasers. or she tries to space aerials over his head which he can just run under and continue shooting lasers. all this involves very very little risk on the fox's part. eventually she'll be high enough that even a simple nair will kill her

the only thing is, no one does this for stupid arbitrary reasons i dont know so meh

JPobs, i think you've seen me post enough to know that im not trolling. so im gonna say this.

you arent actually contributing anything to the conversation when you center an argument on this. Is there ANYTHING more general and true in 100% of circumstances?

Also, i believe, that you truly believe that people arent playing the match-up right. But thats is equivalent to saying that the top players in the world dont know what they're doing. i think you need to come a little bit stronger than this stuff.


thank you hungrybox, during my rant i've been watching the nfl draft re-cap, so i forgot to talk about that. the idea that Falco vs Puff is anything but a match-up in puff's favor is LOLOLOLOL dumb

 

[TheManaLord]

Word up

*****es

 

[xbombr]

Hbox's sig contains all you need to know about Puff's matchups.

 

[Animal]

why cant people just learn how to space?

 

[Divinokage]

smart post is smart.

PP's the first Falco I lost to in a tournament set in the past....two years?

Our record in sets is 4-1 my favor.

But anyways, back on topic. Jiggs v. falco is 55-45 in Jiggs favor.

imo.

And for the record some of the DUMBEST posts on SWF came after Kage beat Mango...

Saying that Ganon beats jigglypuff in matchups is....horrendous.

It really is.. But it's not that bad of a matchup i don't think anyway. It's not easy to win, definitely not but it's doable. Ya I went 1-1 with mango's puff, Hbox 2-0 me, First I 2-1 Darc, then he 2-0 me at Pound 4.. So.. It's hard.. =P

 

[unknown522]

smart post is smart.

PP's the first Falco I lost to in a tournament set in the past....two years?

Our record in sets is 4-1 my favor.

But anyways, back on topic. Jiggs v. falco is 55-45 in Jiggs favor.

imo.

And for the record some of the DUMBEST posts on SWF came after Kage beat Mango...

Saying that Ganon beats jigglypuff in matchups is....horrendous.

forreal, this is a good post, but the set should be 4-2, because he won twice?

I think the matchup is even though IMO

 

[Dr Peepee]

I would like to read why Hbox thinks Puff wins that matchup(unless it's just gut feeling...which is cool too).

 

[Animal]

kage have you ever tried your falcon against puff? how do you feel about that matchup. i personally like it, not because its easier but just because its fun lol

 

[Divinokage]

I have no idea, my practice is PKM's puff, but he doesn't play it often.. and if i would know I would need to play Hbox, Darc, Mango =P But it doesn't seem too bad either.

 

[sauc3]

I have no idea, my practice is PKM's puff, but he doesn't play it often.. and if i would know I would need to play Hbox, Darc, Mango =P But it doesn't seem too bad either.

your ganon is better vs puff than your falcon, ... by a lot

 

[Divinokage]

your ganon is better vs puff than your falcon, ... by a lot

Ya but my Falcon also improved tremendously since you last played me.

 

[JPOBS]

JPobs, i think you've seen me post enough to know that im not trolling. so im gonna say this.

you arent actually contributing anything to the conversation when you center an argument on this. Is there ANYTHING more general and true in 100% of circumstances?

Also, i believe, that you truly believe that people arent playing the match-up right. But thats is equivalent to saying that the top players in the world dont know what they're doing. i think you need to come a little bit stronger than this stuff.


thank you hungrybox, during my rant i've been watching the nfl draft re-cap, so i forgot to talk about that. the idea that Falco vs Puff is anything but a match-up in puff's favor is LOLOLOLOL dumb

I know what you're saying. I realize that most of what im saying probably sounds like a lot of fluff and may seem pretty empty.

But I cant say anything more than I already have. I just want to see Foxs start actually set about camping jiggs, as in, never ever approach, and see how it plays out at high levels.
I could be wrong it may not even work that well for some currently unforseen reason, but the only thing i know for sure at this point is, whatever we are currently doing in the vs jiggs matchup isnt winning us any tournies, and the method of play im describing here hasnt exactly been tested.

actually, screw it, its whatever. I guess I'll just have to beat Hungrybox at gamme and let everyone know whats up.

 

[soap]

fox doesnt have to approach for jigglypuff to corner him and do kicks

 

[JPOBS]

meh, i had a post written up in response to that but i'll just drop the topic because until someone *famous* actually bothers to do it, i'll just look like some dumb minority with a bad opinion because seeing is believing with this community, and if it hasnt happened yet, its impossbile.

which is funny cuz the second it happens everyone is bandwagons its. *cue kage vs mango and PP beating hbox......once*

 

[KAOSTAR]

I still havent seen somebody try to waste all 8 minutes lasering until jiggz is at kill percent.

Just saying thats what ppl say is super effective but Ive never seen it done. Every single player gets tired of brawlin and approaches at some point.

 

[TheManaLord]

It's not that. It's that the jiggs won't just take it. She can space her bairs in his face all day and outrange him. He simply can't use that strategy it doesn't ****ing work. It's from like 2002 when people used that **** lmao it got a lot of stages banned.

Terrible arguments in here.

 

[xbombr]

Jiggs moves around well enough that she'll catch a laser camping Fox. The lasers don't even keep her from moving at him so it's not like he can rack up large amounts of damage just by lasering. If Jiggs is spacing herself properly, then lasering becomes a really stupid idea since she can just BAir you whenever you try it. If you're lasering you can't punish her for screwing up with a NAir, BAir, or some sort of smash.

A lasering Fox is probably the least of a Jiggs worries. An upsmashing and aerial punishment Fox is one of her biggest threats.

Yes camp, but with movement. Only do it with lasers when she's really far away.

The problem is that most of the people patient enough to beat Jigglypuff either play Jigglypuff or play a character with a horrible match up against her.

 

[Niko45]

Yea...you can't laser camp for 8 minutes...

Laser camping works assuming the Jiggs is ASSUMING you are not laser camping and might attack her. If you laser camp for, oh, idk, a minute straight, the Jiggs might realize you're not going to attack, fake an approach, and then take a guess at where you are going to move and attack that spot. If she guesses right, guess what, you just got *****, and now you're down a stock. So much for laser camp.

Lasering is just something that works intermittently as long as you maintain the threat of attacking.

 

[VGmasta]

Yea...you can't laser camp for 8 minutes...

Laser camping works assuming the Jiggs is ASSUMING you are not laser camping and might attack her. If you laser camp for, oh, idk, a minute straight, the Jiggs might realize you're not going to attack, fake an approach, and then take a guess at where you are going to move and attack that spot. If she guesses right, guess what, you just got *****, and now you're down a stock. So much for laser camp.

Lasering is just something that works intermittently as long as you maintain the threat of attacking.

I agree largely with what Niko just said. This is what I meant earlier by "camping Jiggs is harder than it sounds". Top level Jiggs aren't just gonna "let" their opponents camping.

 

[otg]

I agree largely with what Niko just said. This is what I meant earlier by "camping Jiggs is harder than it sounds". Top level Jiggs aren't just gonna "let" their opponents camping.

I don't get this double standard tho. For many matchups, people make blanket statements like "all fox has to do is laser camp peach" and thus Fox >> Peach. How does this not apply to Jiggs as well? What can she do to stop camp and runaway that other characters can't?

 

[t3h Icy]

You can't beat Jigglypuff with Laser camping. -_- It's a utility that helps but you can't base your entire strategy with it. That's as if Falcon only used the knee and never anything else.

Also, Jigglypuff match-ups. Do em.

 

[TheManaLord]

I don't get this double standard tho. For many matchups, people make blanket statements like "all fox has to do is laser camp peach" and thus Fox >> Peach. How does this not apply to Jiggs as well? What can she do to stop camp and runaway that other characters can't?

jiggs is way faster than peach and has mad jumps to jump around

but i don't advocate either, laser camp doesn't work, it's just baiting

 

[Roneblaster]

TML for best poster in the history of posters.

Puff is > Falco
PP beating HBox doesn't swing a matchup from > to < or even =

Puff is > Falcon
Falcon does 2 things really well. Punishing and Combos. you cant combo jigglypuff for more than 2 moves and if you punish jigglypuff it doesnt matter because she is A. Going to recover anyway or B. You screw up punishment and lose your stock in anyone of the numerous ways jiggs has to punish.

Jiggs is = > Fox
Fox can kill at low percentages on alot of maps, but jiggs is a threat to kill fox at any percent, through gimps or any move -> rest.

 

[Lovage]

i dont think puff is ever > fox

= at worst

 

[Zephynazo]

i dont think puff is ever > fox

= at worst

I agree.

22chars

 

[Roneblaster]

i agree puff fox is so amazingly equalish.

 

[TheManaLord]

i am in accordance with that.

 

[Charlesz]

I also agree with Lovage.

 

[john!]

Someone's going to have to disagree...

That person isn't me. I also agree.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Yea...you can't laser camp for 8 minutes...

Laser camping works assuming the Jiggs is ASSUMING you are not laser camping and might attack her. If you laser camp for, oh, idk, a minute straight, the Jiggs might realize you're not going to attack, fake an approach, and then take a guess at where you are going to move and attack that spot. If she guesses right, guess what, you just got *****, and now you're down a stock. So much for laser camp.

Lasering is just something that works intermittently as long as you maintain the threat of attacking.

How is that different than getting hit at all. If jiggz hits you then its an auto stock.

If she hits u after a minute of lasering she is prob in kill percent and you have only been hit once.

not to mention you are suppose to attack jiggz sometimes when she approaches. You are still required to mix it up a bit, but with lasers as your base. Idk maybe **** doesnt work, but I thought fox was fast enough to run away from jiggs. and if you can run away then you can laser at least a little bit.


I dont see how with wavelands and side B edge cancels which are both consistently done at mid levels dont allow you to cover a decent distance quickly.

 

[JPOBS]

I like how the only defenses raised so far about camping jiggs is
"she can space bairs in your face" i.e. not ever actually hit you cuz you'll be running around like a mofo and

"she can guess where you're going to go and you die" i.e. so she has a small chance of maybe being able to predict your movement, which consists of DD, jumping clear over her, running around on platforms etc.

Im just pointing out that the arguements agaisnt it arent very empowering.
and this double standard is stupid. top level jiggs arent going to 'let' their opponent camp, but top levels foxs arent going to 'let' their camp be broken easily.

and one las thing, jiggs' vertical movement BLOWS. Unless she is already in high in the air, fox can literally jump clear over her and onto a platform or something. and in the event she is already up high, lol run under her or fly a nair/bair inbetween her aerials and keep the good times rolling.

 

[Mahone]

JPOBS when will you realilze you are arguing with people who have already made up their mind about jiggs being broken. This thread is becoming such a joke, no one is trying to learn about matchups, people just wanna vent about how good characters are and make claims with no reasoning to back it up.

 

[KAOSTAR]

^^ look guys, a ***** wit some sense. lol

jiggz usually wears her anti laser garb tho

My only thing is that everybody goes in, nobody truly holds their ground and just lasers. Whether it works or not is irrelevant, I just dont think its been committed to.

 

[JPOBS]

Exactly, i dont even know if it works really well because we literally have never seen it attempted by high level players. im not even syaing you would JV 5 stock the jiggs but no one here is open to news ways of thinking/playing until someone else does it first.

Its just that comments like this

It's not that. It's that the jiggs won't just take it. She can space her bairs in his face all day and outrange him. He simply can't use that strategy it doesn't ****ing work. It's from like 2002 when people used that **** lmao it got a lot of stages banned.

Terrible arguments in here.

Make me laugh because this is what crosses my mind
"oh yes, TML you are right, lets just stick with all those other, better strategies we have that is proven to beat jiggs......oh wait..."

anyway, sorry for derailing your thread Icy, lets move on to other matchups

 

[john!]

When I go Puff vs. Fox, I hardly pay attention to lasers since they don't stun me and give hardly any percent. I just pressure them closer to the edge, and eventually they run out of room to laser without getting punished. Then they're forced to do something else. Higher level Puffs do this too, but more effectively. It's impossible to do nothing but laser against a Puff that knows what they're doing. Lasers serve only as a means to force Puff to approach.

 

[TheManaLord]

JPOBS when will you realilze you are arguing with people who have already made up their mind about jiggs being broken. This thread is becoming such a joke, no one is trying to learn about matchups, people just wanna vent about how good characters are and make claims with no reasoning to back it up.

Says Mr 8 posts.

Get real.

 

[Lovage]

ya this isnt world of warcraft people if you complain about stuff its not gonna get changed

so just man up and use all the tools available to you and win

instead of complaining and waiting for the next melee patch

 

[yummynbeefy]

hbox and mango both say doc is a pretty bad matchup for jiggs

 

[xbombr]

Did anyone read my post? It was like the first one after we switched to discussing Jigglypuff...

I think it's a pretty accurate representation of the match up.