TheblackGreninjaplayer
Smash Rookie
I've already done an analysis on the Bayonetta vs Greninja MU in the 1.1.4 patch . I stated that Greninja wins this MU 55:45.
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Meta Mastery of the Arts - Greninja Matchup Thread Archive
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David Galanos
Smash Journeyman
Could you elaborate on why?
Codaption
Smash Ace
It's not really too hard to imagine why. SSHC neutered her combo game, and she didn't (and still doesn't) have much else to her name.
Since her combos are a lot less potent now, it'd probably be marginally better for Blue Kermit at this point in the metagame. That said, it'll likely get a bit better for Bayo over time as her mains develop a better understanding of the character beyond just her combos.
Since her combos are a lot less potent now, it'd probably be marginally better for Blue Kermit at this point in the metagame. That said, it'll likely get a bit better for Bayo over time as her mains develop a better understanding of the character beyond just her combos.
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BigHairyFart
Salty Supreme
A big thing against bayo is that because airdodges and Witch Time are so good, they use them a LOT. What that means is that it's incredibly easy to bait them and punish with our mighty water swords.
SteadyDisciple
Smash Journeyman
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- Rorrim
So, I just now learned something about the Bayonetta matchup. If you use substitute against her heel slide, and angle your attack upwards, you will completely miss her. the substitute appeared to snap to Bayo's starting position as opposed to her current one. Not sure this matters much, since there are still plenty of good ways to punish heel slide, but I didn't know if this little tidbit had been discovered.
TheblackGreninjaplayer
Smash Rookie
Here was my analysis on her:
Da neutral: IMO, i think that we can should play the way that Gren plays in neutral A.K.A (Zone with shurikens,Space with Fair etc.) since bayo has problably no options to force us to approach, but maybe her nair can be one and bullet arts, soooooo uh, we should capitalize on these options since
's nair is very good.
Our fair outranges every of her aerials except maybe nair or bair, because of's terrible frame data ( you can see it here)kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Bayonetta shielding should not be a problem but you just outspace and punish but bayo can pressure us in shield.
Ex: We have a frame 3 jab vs a frame 9 jab, her smash attacks are slow and have low priority , her fastest move is witch twist, her rolls are slow without bat within , and we just have a better frame data than her ? ( no sarcasm) AMEN. Oh, and her aerials are kinda fast tho.
We should NOT be playing very offensive because of witch time, cauz if we don't play safe, we DIE. If we get countered at the ledge, we DIE. If we get combo'd, we use SSHC ( shadow sneak hitstun cancel) it messes up her combos.
is like that annoying bug that you can't kill when it's here. She's a pain to edgeguard, we can use hydro pump, it's won't do anything, imo, our best option would we to try to snipe her jump and get her far offstage. When we are getting edgeguarded, we should maybe try to mixup our hydro pump angles so we don't get dair'ed by or just getting nair'ed.
We maybe should stay in Long to Mid-range to maybe zone or space.
We can also crouch under bullet climax.
We should try to choose stages with High cellings to survive's combos that get you up in the air, Edit: It's easier to get out of her combos, but we still should choose high celling stages.
Her only OOS option(s) are wtich twist at frame 4 , Dtilt, utilt and grab, who all come out at frame 7 at, i dunno if SH fair can hit and other OOS options are nair and jab who both come out at frame 9. We could say that her OOS options are average. So could try to pressure her in shield and frame trap her.
We should also try to do only true combos because with witch time or bat within, can escape and punish our combos.
is a fast-faller yadda yadda we can combo her easily.
Da verdict: (I'm so sure that i missed many things, gave incorrect info, but you can just correct me. K ?) can zone bayo with shurikens no problem, but can do the same with bullet arts and nair, has no problem getting back onstage, is forced to play safe because of witch time, and can pressure because of her bad OOS options and bad rolls , we can escape her combos with SSHC, can combo us hard because of our fast-faller weight.
Sooooo i think that Gren maybe wins this MU 55:45 or 60:40 ( like that would be a thing). Edit: It could lol.
Da neutral: IMO, i think that we can should play the way that Gren plays in neutral A.K.A (Zone with shurikens,Space with Fair etc.) since bayo has problably no options to force us to approach, but maybe her nair can be one and bullet arts, soooooo uh, we should capitalize on these options since
's nair is very good.Our fair outranges every of her aerials except maybe nair or bair, because of
's terrible frame data ( you can see it here)kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Bayonetta shielding should not be a problem but you just outspace and punish but bayo can pressure us in shield.Ex: We have a frame 3 jab vs a frame 9 jab, her smash attacks are slow and have low priority , her fastest move is witch twist, her rolls are slow without bat within , and we just have a better frame data than her ? ( no sarcasm) AMEN. Oh, and her aerials are kinda fast tho.
We should NOT be playing very offensive because of witch time, cauz if we don't play safe, we DIE. If we get countered at the ledge, we DIE. If we get combo'd, we use SSHC ( shadow sneak hitstun cancel) it messes up her combos.
is like that annoying bug that you can't kill when it's here. She's a pain to edgeguard, we can use hydro pump, it's won't do anything, imo, our best option would we to try to snipe her jump and get her far offstage. When we are getting edgeguarded, we should maybe try to mixup our hydro pump angles so we don't get dair'ed by or just getting nair'ed.We maybe should stay in Long to Mid-range to maybe zone or space
.We can also crouch under bullet climax.
We should try to choose stages with High cellings to survive
's combos that get you up in the air, Edit: It's easier to get out of her combos, but we still should choose high celling stages.Her only OOS option(s) are wtich twist at frame 4 , Dtilt, utilt and grab, who all come out at frame 7 at, i dunno if SH fair can hit
and other OOS options are nair and jab who both come out at frame 9. We could say that her OOS options are average. So could try to pressure her in shield and frame trap her.We should also try to do only true combos because with witch time or bat within,
can escape and punish our combos. is a fast-faller yadda yadda we can combo her easily.Da verdict: (I'm so sure that i missed many things, gave incorrect info, but you can just correct me. K ?)
can zone bayo with shurikens no problem, but can do the same with bullet arts and nair, has no problem getting back onstage, is forced to play safe because of witch time, and can pressure because of her bad OOS options and bad rolls , we can escape her combos with SSHC, can combo us hard because of our fast-faller weight.Sooooo i think that Gren maybe wins this MU 55:45 or 60:40 ( like that would be a thing). Edit: It could lol.
Codaption
Smash Ace
There's a bit of misinformation concerning the speed of her attacks in there (oos options don't factor shield drop for moves that aren't witch twist/grab, and her aerials really aren't that fast), but other than that it looks alright to me.
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