Marth's Counter

[-NAFAN-]

Sup people,

I'm fairly new to the competitive smash scene, and was wondering about the viability of Marth's counter. I haven't seen it used very often, if at all in competitive matches, and was wondering if it is actually a useful tool?

 

[A_Reverie]

It has some limited uses, most notably as a tool for edgeguarding Fox/Falco. If you force a spacie to recover low with they're up-b, you can counter it and follow up with a F-air to finish them off.

Another decent use for it is to relieve laser pressure from Falco, but it's easily punished if overused. It can also be used as a last resort when trying to gain back on stage from the ledge, for instance, if you know they're going to attack your ledge dash. Overall though, counter is too much of a commitment for its very small reward. It should almost never be used in neutral, as it will often get you punished hard.

 

[-NAFAN-]

It has some limited uses, most notably as a tool for edgeguarding Fox/Falco. If you force a spacie to recover low with they're up-b, you can counter it and follow up with a F-air to finish them off.

Another decent use for it is to relieve laser pressure from Falco, but it's easily punished if overused. It can also be used as a last resort when trying to gain back on stage from the ledge, for instance, if you know they're going to attack your ledge dash. Overall though, counter is too much of a commitment for its very small reward. It should almost never be used in neutral, as it will often get you punished hard.

Awesome explanation, thanks a lot!

 

[Pent]

Great edgeguard in some situations vs some characters such as Fox/Falco. I've seen people VS lower tiers that never utilize counter despite being able to though. Like a Mario that isn't sweetspotting or Link.

 

[ChrisWithAk]

You can destroy link with counter if he uses his up b. I have forced a couple close friends who play to use a different character just by countering their up b recovery

 

[Sycorax]

You can destroy link with counter if he uses his up b. I have forced a couple close friends who play to use a different character just by countering their up b recovery

Link can sweetspot under the counter hitbox. He still triggers the counter, but doesn't get hit. It's a very tight spacing though.

 

[AceDudeyeah]

Turnips and pills.

Also, if you counter someone's ledgehop aerial/laser, you send them back off most likely without a jump.

 

[ChrisWithAk]

Link can sweetspot under the counter hitbox. He still triggers the counter, but doesn't get hit. It's a very tight spacing though.

Never seen it done but thats cool that would be real tight spacing, doesnt the hit box for the final hit of up b go well over links head? And link doesnt have a ton to punish that 'missed' counter?

 

[Sycorax]

doesnt the hit box for the final hit of up b go well over links head?

Yeah, but I don't really see why that matters.

And link doesnt have a ton to punish that 'missed' counter?

Link gets ledgehop uair, which is actually pretty devastating.

 

[Smashing Turnips]

Yeah, but I don't really see why that matters.


Link gets ledgehop uair, which is actually pretty devastating.

Link's f-air from ledge is also good to punish the counter.

 

[AirFair]

I would use it for edgeguarding spacies primarily. In niche situations it can be used against characters with projectiles, but not often.

 

[ChrisWithAk]

Dont forget how funny it can be in teams or ffa friendlies to just drop on top of a group and use it to knock everybody in different directions. Obviously not competitively viable but should make you chuckle and your friends question why they hangout with you.

 

[aqualad33]

Counter is an okay edge guard against spacies. Against good spacies it only works on Stadium and battlefield, the other stages have a wall for them to grind on and sweet spot (which avoids the counter). Counter is also beat by a high recovery angle. Considering the high cooldown, it's often not optimal.

On BF and Stadium spacies can not sweetspot when they are close to and below the stage. If you catch a spacy offstage up-close and in a position where they can not recover going straight up, then counter is guaranteed.

The other use I have for counter is to break up Spacy combos. It is one of your fastest moves (comes out in 5 frames) and puts your opponent in knocked down state. After a couple counters your opponent will start adjusting by breaking up their pressure, anticipating your counter, and then hard punishing you. This however, gives you openings to begin your counter assault as well. It changes things from a guaranteed beating, to a guessing game.

Hope that helps.