Marth match-up

[Hunybear]

Ok so What are Samus's options in this matchup. what should she be looking for and watch out for. What stages are best and how do you get around the sword. What to do to avoid being punished. How to avoid the edge guard. Basicly everything you know about samus vs marth put it here!

 

[343]

i dunno what to do against dd dtilt / grab

 

[pizzacato]

In my experience, mixing up homing missile and super missile are pretty good. Marth can swat them away easy, but when they slash, there's a timing issue and could get poked with a missile while in their cool down lag. Granted, there's not much cooldown lag, but also missiles don't take long to travel across the stage. Just one more tool to fighting Marth. I hope this isn't fraudulent, and actually is a legit strat.

 

[Theftz22]

A quick tip: grab is a great tool against DD / dtilt campy marths because it works just outside of marth's preferred range. Make marth respect grab and he'll be more likely to take to the air, where he is vulnerable to samus' strong anti-air game.

 

[cole_ubermensch]

def bomb near the edge to cancel out his b-up. works best if the bombs fall of the stage onto him

 

[Litt]

Honestly when you notice marth is getting very grabby/dd dtilty, you can always just run up and jump cancel grab because you know he is staying grounded and it has a longer reach than any of marths moves

 

[Spazzy]

How should samus approach? What's the best stages for her in this MU?

 

[343]

samus shouldn't be so much "approaching" as "trying to take up space." wd ftilt is good for this.

Personally I like DL > PS > BF > FD > FoD > YS, though I suspect Yoshi'is is actually fine and PS/FD are not actually that good for Samus. (I just really like Stadium, heh.)

 

[Litt]

samus shouldn't be so much "approaching" as "trying to take up space." wd ftilt is good for this.

Personally I like DL > PS > BF > FD > FoD > YS, though I suspect Yoshi'is is actually fine and PS/FD are not actually that good for Samus. (I just really like Stadium, heh.)

Low level MUs favor bigger stages for samus because marths are not as competent in dealing with her projectiles while still zoning, higher level the more space the better for marth, personally I love FD in the MU, and pkmn stadium is the worst

 

[JerkPhil]

I disagree. I think Samus biggest problem in the match up is coming down when being juggled. I find it easier to go recover from the side than from above, so a shorter stage is preferred (except DL of course). Also, the match up got a lot better after I learned to invincible AI from the ledge. Otherwise it's hard for us to get up on the stage from the ledge, I think.

My preference of stages is: DL > FoD > BF = YS > PS > FD

 

[Litt]

I disagree. I think Samus biggest problem in the match up is coming down when being juggled. I find it easier to go recover from the side than from above, so a shorter stage is preferred (except DL of course). Also, the match up got a lot better after I learned to invincible AI from the ledge. Otherwise it's hard for us to get up on the stage from the ledge, I think.

My preference of stages is: DL > FoD > BF = YS > PS > FD

Have to disagree with the battlefield one, AI and haxdashing is much riskier on that stage, and a good marth is going to tipper you on the plat just the same as yoshis, yoshis has much more stage for us to grapple, and the tigher plats make commitments for marth that much more risky, FD leaves marth open as a book when he is not in dash dance, and the plats on pkmn give him room to maneuver more so than samus can imo, also almost all the transformations favor marth over samus anyway
DL > FoD > FD > YS > Battlefield > Pkmn

 

[JerkPhil]

Even though the neutral game is easier on FD, the punish game highly favors Marth on FD. A really good Marth should be able to keep Samus in the air as long as it's not off stage. The platforms of PS are great for missiles. I think they benefit Samus more, though. The transformations can be used in our favor to come down easier.
I understand your point about BF vs YS. I couldn't decide wether low % tipper KOs or a challenging ledge was worse.

 

[Litt]

Even though the neutral game is easier on FD, the punish game highly favors Marth on FD. A really good Marth should be able to keep Samus in the air as long as it's not off stage. The platforms of PS are great for missiles. I think they benefit Samus more, though. The transformations can be used in our favor to come down easier.
I understand your point about BF vs YS. I couldn't decide wether low % tipper KOs or a challenging ledge was worse.

Challenging ledge always worse because samus cant just push past marth in the air and a good marth will always cover the up high option, as for pkmn, i always see the plats as more of a trap for high level marths to get us to spam and just fair through the missiles, and nah Ive never found any transformation aside from neutral being good for samus over marth

 

[pizzacato]

Up air.
no joke.

 

[Spazzy]

I disagree. I think Samus biggest problem in the match up is coming down when being juggled.

Any tips for how to get out of this?

 

[Litt]

Any tips for how to get out of this?

I just spam bombs and space them where I can either just barely make the next bomb jump or where i barely miss and can fast fall into aerial or just airdodge, you really need to be competent in marths movement and reach to be able to safely get down or i suggest just going off stage and working your way back to center stage from the ledge

 

[Kmac0]

My stage preferences
FoD > DL >> BF > PS/Yoshis/FD (The last three I couldn't really decide on, I don't hate any stages in this MU)

You can punish dtilt with a walk up ftilt of your own iirc, but it's a tight timing.

You have to make crazy use of crouch cancelling at low percentages, that's how you get Marth into the air and it's also how you take early stocks. If you get an early stock than you can play war of attrition and the match is yours.
Have a great mixup game when you're recovering, save your double jump by mashing out of tumble and doing an airdodge > grapple. Mix things up with fast/slow fall and bombs when you're coming down from a juggle. I guarantee you're going to feel pressured to fast fall down with a nair or dair, but eventually that will become an easy bait.
If your DI is good enough, you'll either die early from a low percent combo, or you'll live to like 200%. Marth upthrow kills you on FD at around then. For some reason it's a common occurrence for me to get hancocked on FD so I have that little piece of info to share.

You can't miss edgeguards against Marth, in fact, you can't miss edgeguards ever. But missing an edgeguard versus Marth can be the difference between a 65% kill, and a 135% kill. And between those two percentages, you will have taken serious damage or even lost stocks. The big thing that Marth players use to get the ledge back is save their jump and stall with side-b a lot. Keep a careful eye to see which recovery options he has left, and when he will be within sweetspot range. Marth players absolutely hate having to up-b onto stage, remember that because it can be the hesitation that ends their stock. If a Marth player steals the ledge from you by baiting a roll onto stage or hitting you with the UpB, recognize that you got roasted and make adjustments by rolling at a later or earlier time. And if they don't mind landing on the stage, use invincible nairs, it's an incredible tool in every matchup, but you have be good at timing your ledge invincibility to take full advantage of it.

This MU is definitely Samus favored when it comes to how they edgeguard one-another. But I feel Marth has the advantage on-stage. Just take advantage of having a better position vs him, and punish him when he's above you. Also, feel free to use a bunch of missiles in this MU. Marth doesn't deal with them as well as many other characters. Marth is also combo fodder so you can get some sweet and spicy 55% combos from a hit at 0%.