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Data Marth Frame Data

UMR | donmk

UMR | donmk

RIP PM
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Messages
138
Location
Australia

Marth Project M 3.6 Frame Data​

This thread has been requested in these boards a bit recently. So I teamed up with @ KuroganeHammer KuroganeHammer and we proudly present Marth's Project M Frame Data. Please note that all animations run at 1/3 game speed (20 fps).

There is a lot of information in this post, so to make it easier to navigate, I have placed the data into groups as follows:

Terms Used [TRM]
Normal Moves [MOV]
Aerial Moves [AIR]
Special Moves [SPC]
Grabs [GRB]
Dodges and Rolls [DGD]
Get up Moves [GUP]
Ledge Moves [LDG]
Techs [TCH]​

If you wish to go to a specific section, search for the three letter section code.

Finally, if there are any requests for extra data, please note them here and we'll try to find it.

Terms Used[TRM]

This is a list of terms used below and an explanation of what they mean.

Hitbox Active: Frames during which the attack's hitboxes are active.
FAF (First Actionable Frame): First frame on which you can perform another move. This will be the animation's end or the IASA frame if the move has one.
Base Damage: Base damage values for each hit.
Angle: Angle at which the opponent will be knocked away.
Sakurai Angle: A special knockback angle. The actual direction of the angle varies depending on whether the opponent is grounded as well as the strength of the knockback. For more information, see http://www.ssbwiki.com/Sakurai_angle
BKB: Base knockback of the move.
KBG: Knockback growth of the move. This number affects how quickly knockback will increase relative to the opponent's damage.
WKB: Weight Knockback, used instead of BKB for fixed knockback hitboxes. Such a hitbox is usually denoted with a '*'.
Block Advantage: Ground moves only. Frame difference between Marth's FAF and the opponent's when the move hits the opponent's shield. Counted from first hit frame per damage value. Add +7 to find the normal shield drop advantage.
Landing Lag: Aerials only. Number of frames Marth lags when he hits the ground during the move.
Autocancel: Aerials only. Frames during which Marth can land without the aerial move's landing lag. (He will instead suffer normal jump landing lag.)
Intangibility: Frames during which Marth will take no damage.
Clang: Whether the hitbox can clang with other moves. Since most of Marth's moves can clang, it will only be mentioned if the move cannot clang.

Normal Moves [MOV]

Jab 1
Hitbox Active: 4-7
Link to Jab 2: 20
FAF: 26
Block Advantage: -18
Sourspots
Damage: 4
BKB: 20
KBG: 50
Angle: Sakurai Angle​

Sweetspot (Tip)
Damage: 6
BKB: 30
KBG: 60
Angle: Sakurai Angle​

Jab 2

Hitbox Active:4-9
Link to Jab 1: 20
FAF: 26
Block Advantage: -17
Sourspots
Damage: 4
BKB: 20
KBG: 50
Angle: Sakurai Angle​

Sweetspot (Tip)
Damage: 6
BKB: 30
KBG: 60
Angle: Sakurai Angle​

Dash Attack
Hitbox Active: 12-15
FAF: 41
Block Advantage: -22
Arm Sourspots
Damage: 9
BKB: 35
KBG: 60
Angle: Sakurai Angle​

Sword Sourspots
Damage: 11
BKB: 70
KBG: 55
Angle: 110​

Sword Sweetspot
Damage: 12
BKB: 70
KBG: 55
Angle: 110​

F Tilt
Hitbox Active: 7-10
FAF: 36
Block Advantage: -22
Sourspots
Damage: 9
BKB: 30
KBG: 70
Angle: Sakurai Angle​

Sweetspot (Tip)
Damage: 13
BKB: 60
KBG: 70
Angle: Sakurai Angle​

U Tilt
Hitbox Active: 6-8, 9-12
FAF: 32
Block Advantage: -19
First Set of Hitboxes
Shoulder
Damage: 8
BKB: 40
KBG: 116
Angle: Sakurai Angle​

Arm
Damage: 9
BKB: 40
KBG: 118
Angle: Sakurai Angle​

Sword Sourspot
Damage: 9
BKB: 40
KBG: 120
Angle: 110​

Sword Sweetspot (Tip)
Damage: 12
BKB: 50
KBG: 100
Angle: 110​

Second Set of Hitboxes
Shoulder
Damage: 9
BKB: 30
KBG: 116
Angle: Sakurai Angle​

Arm
Damage: 9
BKB: 30
KBG: 118
Angle: Sakurai Angle​

Sword Sourspot
Damage: 10
BKB: 40
KBG: 120
Angle: 85​

Sword Sweetspot (Tip)
Damage: 13
BKB: 50
KBG: 100
Angle: 85​

D Tilt
Hitbox Active: 7-9
FAF: 20 (Note that D tilt has a special FAF that does not allow a cancel into shield)
Block Advantage: -6
Shoulder Sourspots
Damage: 8
BKB: 20
KBG: 40
Angle: 30​

Arm Sourspots
Damage: 8
BKB: 25
KBG: 40
Angle: 30​

Sword Sourspots
Damage: 9
BKB: 40
KBG: 40
Angle: 30​

Sweetspot (Tip)
Damage: 10
BKB: 50
KBG: 40
Angle: 30​

F Smash
Startup: 3
Hitbox Active: 8-11
FAF: 46
Block Advantage: -29
Sourspots
Damage: 14
BKB: 60
KBG: 70
Angle: Sakurai Angle​

Sweetspot (Tip)
Damage: 20
BKB: 80
KBG: 70
Angle: Sakurai Angle​

U Smash
Startup: 5
Hitbox Active: 9-13
FAF: 42
Block Advantage: -27
Foot Sourspots*
Damage: 8
WKB: 100
KBG: 100
Angle: 75
Does not Clang​

Sword Sourspot
Damage:15
BKB: 30
KBG: 80
Angle: 90​

Sword Sweetspot (Tip)
Damage: 18
BKB: 60
KBG: 80
Angle: 90​

D Smash
Startup: 4
Hitbox Active: 2-4, 17-19
FAF: 59
Block Advantage: -50, -35
First Set of Hitboxes
Hip
Damage: 11
BKB: 16
KBG: 100
Angle: Sakurai Angle​

Arm
Damage: 11
BKB: 20
KBG: 100
Angle: Sakurai Angle​

Sword Sourspot
Damage: 11
BKB: 70
KBG: 72
Angle: 75​

Sword Sweetspot (Tip)
Damage: 16
BKB: 70
KBG: 100
Angle: 70​

Second Set of Hitboxes
Shoulder
Damage: 11
BKB: 15
KBG: 100
Angle: Sakurai Angle​

Arm
Damage: 11
BKB: 30
KBG: 100
Angle: Sakurai Angle​

Sword Sourspot
Damage: 11
BKB: 70
KBG: 72
Angle: 75​

Sword Sweetspot (Tip)
Damage: 16
BKB:70
KBG: 100
Angle: 75​

Aerial Moves [AIR]
Nair
Hitbox Active: 6-7, 15-21
FAF: 50
Autocancel: 1-5, 25-49
Landing Lag (Normal/L Cancelled): 15/7
First Set of Hitboxes
Shoulder, Arm and Sword
Damage: 4
BKB: 30
KBG: 40
Angle: 100​

Hip
Damage: 4
BKB: 30
KBG: 40
Angle: 90​

Second Set of Hitboxes
All
Damage: 10
BKB: 50
KBG: 80
Angle: Sakurai Angle​

Fair
Hitbox Active: 4-7
FAF: 29
Autocancel: 27-29
Landing Lag (Normal / L Cancelled): 15/7
Arm and Shoulder
Damage: 9
BKB: 20
KBG: 70
Angle: Sakurai Angle​

Sword Sourspot
Damage:10
BKB: 30
KBG: 70
Angle: Sakurai Angle​

Sword Sweetspot (Tip)
Damage: 13
BKB: 42
KBG: 70
Angle: 67​

Bair
Hitbox Active: 7-11
FAF: 35
Autocancel: 1-5, 32-34
Turnaround: 32
Landing Lag (Normal / L Cancelled): 24/12
Shoulder
Damage: 9
BKB: 10
KBG: 70
Angle: Sakurai Angle​

Arm
Damage: 9
BKB: 25
KBG: 70
Angle: Sakurai Angle​

Sword Sourspot
Damage:10
BKB: 30
KBG: 70
Angle: Sakurai Angle​

Sword Sweetspot (Tip)
Damage: 13
BKB: 30
KBG: 70
Angle: Sakurai Angle​

Uair
Hitbox Active: 5-8
FAF: 44
Autocancel: 1-4, 27-43
Landing Lag (Normal / L Cancelled): 15/7
Shoulder
Damage: 9
BKB: 18
KBG: 70
Angle: 80​

Arm
Damage: 9
BKB: 20
KBG: 70
Angle: 80​

Sword Sourspot
Damage:10
BKB: 30
KBG: 70
Angle: 80​

Sword Sweetspot (Tip)
Damage: 13
BKB: 40
KBG: 70
Angle90​

Dair
Hitbox Active: 6-9
FAF: 60
Autocancel: 1-4, 49-59
Landing Lag (Normal / L Cancelled): 25/12
Shoulder
Damage: 9
BKB: 20
KBG: 70
Angle: Sakurai Angle​

Arm
Damage: 9
BKB: 30
KBG: 70
Angle: Sakurai Angle​

Sword Sourspot
Damage:10
BKB: 40
KBG: 70
Angle: 80​

Sword Sweetspot (Tip)
Damage: 10
BKB: 40
KBG: 70
Angle: 650 (290% Spike)​

Special Moves [SPC]
Neutral B
Note that for certain attributes, there are four values. This is because Neutral B charges in 4 stages (uncharged -> stage 1 -> stage 2 -> Fully charged). The numbers correspond to the value in each state.
Start up: 12
Hitbox Active: 5-10
FAF: 33
Block Advantage: -22 / -20 / -17 / -13
Hip
Damage: 8 / 13 / 18 / 28
BKB: 34 / 34 / 34 / 34
KBG: 100 / 100 / 100 / 100
Shield Damage: 30 / 30 / 30 / 60
Angle: Sakurai Angle
Does not Clang​

Arm
Damage: 8 / 13 / 18 / 28
BKB: 30 / 30 / 30 / 30
KBG: 100 / 100 / 100 / 100
Shield Damage: 30 / 30 / 30 / 60
Angle: Sakurai Angle
Does not Clang​

Sword Sourspot
Damage: 8 / 13 / 18 / 28
BKB: 30 / 30 / 30 / 30
KBG: 100 / 100 / 100 / 100
Shield Damage: 38 / 38 / 38 / 60
Angle: Sakurai Angle
Does not Clang​

Sword Sweetspot
Damage: 8 / 13 / 18 / 28
BKB: 40 / 40 / 40 / 40
KBG: 100 / 100 / 100 / 100
Shield Damage: 38 / 38 / 38 / 60
Angle: Sakurai Angle
Does not Clang​

Side B (First Hit).
Hitbox Active: 6-8
FAF: 30
Link to next Side B: 7-26
Block Advantage: -20
Shoulder
Damage: 4
BKB: 55
KBG: 25
Angle: 76
Does not Clang​

Arm
Damage: 4
BKB: 55
KBG: 25
Angle: 80
Does not Clang​

Sword Sourspot
Damage: 4
BKB: 55
KBG: 25
Angle: 85
Does not Clang​

Sword Sweetspot
Damage: 4
BKB: 55
KBG: 25
Angle: 96
Does not Clang​

Side B (Up-2)
Hitbox Active: 11-14
FAF: 40
Link to next Side B: 15-31
Block Advantage: -25
Shoulder
Damage: 5
BKB: 85
KBG: 40
Angle: 79
Does not Clang​

Arm
Damage: 5
BKB: 70
KBG: 40
Angle: 85
Does not Clang​

Sword Sourspot
Damage: 5
BKB: 30
KBG: 40
Angle: 90
Does not Clang​

Sword Sweetspot
Damage: 5
BKB: 60
KBG: 40
Angle: 90
Does not Clang​
​

Side B (Down-2)
Hitbox Active: 13-15
FAF: 40
Link to next Side B: 15-32
Block Advantage: -23
Shoulder
Damage: 5
BKB: 16
KBG: 100
Angle: 50
Shield Damage: 1
Does not Clang​

Arm
Damage: 5
BKB: 16
KBG: 100
Angle: 70
Shield Damage: 1
Does not Clang​

Sword Sourspot
Damage: 5
BKB: 16
KBG: 100
Angle: 105
Shield Damage: 1
Does not Clang​

Sword Sweetspot
Damage: 5
BKB: 16
KBG: 100
Angle: 80
Shield Damage: 1
Does not Clang​
​

Side B (Up-3)
Hitbox Active: 12-16
FAF: 47
Link to next Side B: 16-37
Block Advantage: -30
All
Damage: 5
BKB: 16
KBG: 68
Angle: 80
Shield Damage: 1
Does not Clang​
​

Side B (Side-3)
Hitbox Active: 10-13
FAF: 47
Link to next Side B: 14-36
Block Advantage: -30
All*
Damage: 9
WKB: 0
KBG: 176
Angle: Sakurai Angle
Shield Damage: 1
​
​

Side B (Down-3)
Hitbox Active: 14-17
FAF: 43
Link to next Side B: 17-24
Block Advantage: -22
All
Damage: 11
BKB: 50
KBG: 107
Angle: 270
Shield Damage: 1
Does not Clang​
​

Side B (Up-4)
Hitbox Active: 20-25
FAF: 51
Block Advantage: -24
All
Damage: 9
BKB: 40
KBG: 141
Angle: 80
Shield Damage: 1
Does not Clang​
​

Side B (Side-4)
Hitbox Active: 22-25
FAF: 51
Block Advantage: -21
All
Damage: 13
BKB: 15
KBG: 128
Angle: Sakurai Angle
Shield Damage: 2
Does not Clang​
​

Side B (Down-4)
Hitbox Active: 12-14, 18-20, 24-26, 30-32, 36-37
FAF: 61
Block Advantage: -21
First 4 sets of Hitboxes
Arm & Shoulder
Damage: 3
BKB: 2
KBG: 40
Angle: 80
Does not Clang​
Sword Hitboxes

Damage: 3
BKB: 2
KBG: 40
Angle: 80
Shield Damage: 1
Does not Clang​

Final Set of Hitboxes
Arm & Shoulder
Damage: 3
BKB: 20
KBG: 175
Angle: Sakurai Angle
Does not Clang​
Sword Hitboxes

Damage: 3
BKB: 20
KBG: 175
Angle: Sakurai Angle
Shield Damage: 1
Does not Clang​

Up B
Hitbox Active: 5-6, 6-11
Intangible: 5
FAF: 40
Ledge grab allowable from: 12
Landing Lag: 34
First set of Hitboxes
Hip & Sword Sourspot
Damage: 10
BKB: 60
KBG: 70
Angle: 74
Does not Clang​
Sword Sweetspot (Tip)

Damage: 13
BKB: 80
KBG: 70
Angle: 70
Does not Clang​

Final Set of Hitboxes
Hip
Damage: 6
BKB: 20
KBG: 90
Angle: 74
Does not Clang​
Sword Sourspot
Damage: 7
BKB: 20
KBG: 90
Angle: 74
Does not Clang​
Sword Sweetspot (Tip)

Damage: 7
BKB: 20
KBG: 90
Angle: Sakurai Angle
Does not Clang​

Down B (Waiting Part)
FAF: 60
Counterable Frames: 5-29
Intangible: 5-6

Down B (Attacking Part)
Hitbox Active: 5-9
FAF: 37
Intangibile: 1-8
Block Advantage: -13
ALL
Damage: 7
BKB: 90
KBG: 35
Angle: Sakurai Angle
Does not Clang​

Grabs [GRB]

Standing Grab
Grab Active: 7-8
FAF: 31

Dash Grab
Grab Active: 9-10
FAF: 40

Pivot Grab
Grab Active: 9-10
FAF: 36

Pummel
Hitbox Active: 6-9
FAF: 27
All*
Damage: 3
WKB: 30
KBG: 100
Angle: 80
Does not Clang​

Dodges and Rolls [DGD]
Spot Dodge
FAF: 28
Intangible: 2-18

Forward Roll
FAF: 32
Intangible: 4-19

Backward Roll
FAF: 32
Intangible: 4-19

Get Up Moves [GUP]
Stand (Stomach and Back)
Intangible: 1-21
FAF: 30

Roll Forward (Stomach)
Intangible: 1-19
FAF: 36

Roll Forward (Back)
Intangible: 6-19
FAF: 36

Roll Backward (Stomach)
Intangible: 1-19
FAF: 36

Roll Backward (Back)
Intangible: 1-19
FAF: 36

Get Up Attack (Stomach)
Hitbox Active: 22-23, 27-28
Intangible: 1-28
FAF: 50
Block Advantage: -20
All
Damage: 6
Shield Damage: 1
BKB: 80
KBG: 50
Clang: False​

Get Up Attack (Back)
Hitbox Active: 20-23, 30-31
Intangible: 1-31
FAF: 55
Block Advantage: -20
All
Damage: 6
Shield Damage: 1
BKB: 80
KBG: 50
Clang: False​

Ledge Moves [LDG]
Ledge Attack (<100%)
Hitbox Active: 24-27
Intangible: 1-20
FAF: 55
Block Advantage: -25
Ledge Occupancy: 1-42
Arm
Damage: 6
Shield Damage: 1
BKB: 70
Knockback Growth: 50
Angle: Sakurai Angle​

All Sword Hitboxes
Damage: 8
Shield Damage: 1
Base Knockback: 70
Knockback Growth: 50
Angle: Sakurai Angle​

Ledge Attack (100%+)
Hitbox Active: 44-47
Intangible: 1-34
FAF: 69
Block Advantage: -18
Ledge Occupancy: 1-50
Arm
Damage: 6
Shield Damage: 1
BKB: 70
Knockback Growth: 50
Angle: Sakurai Angle​

All Sword Hitboxes
Damage: 8
Shield Damage: 1
Base Knockback: 70
Knockback Growth: 50
Angle: Sakurai Angle​

Stand (<100%)
Intangible: 1-30
FAF: 33
Ledge Occupancy: 1-32

Stand (100%+)
Intangible: 1-55
FAF: 59
Ledge Occupancy: 1-44

Ledge Roll (<100%)
Intangibile: 1-38
FAF: 50
Ledge Occupancy: 1-40

Ledge Roll (100%+)
Intangibile: 1-56
FAF: 79
Ledge Occupancy: 1-54

Techs[TCH]
Standing Tech
Intangible: 1-20
FAF: 27

Techroll (Forward and Back)
Intangible: 1-20
FAF: 41
 
Last edited:
Ralph Cecil

Ralph Cecil

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I'm not a Melee player, so getting to see the numbers behind his moves really helps explain a lot and give me some ideas. Thanks! :D
 
Sartron

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The differing styles in writing frame threads for PM has been so weird so far. Interesting, but weird.
Good job with this. I do have a question though, although it may be quite broad or difficult to answer, but is PM Marth an accurate replica of Melee Marth? Were there drastic differences?
 
UMR | donmk

UMR | donmk

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Messages
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As far as the individual moves go, there are very few differences. The main two that I picked up were that Down Air has less lag and Side B moves have slightly earlier link frames. The real difference in PM is that Marth has a few new tricks such as pivot grab (which I don't like as a name because it is hard to distinguish from a normal grab done out of a pivot). Unfortunately, I couldn't find a Melee thread with knockback / damage data so I can't really compare those.

You'll find that the differing styles have a lot to do with the different data that is present. A lot of the really clean styles look really nice if you don't have animations. I initially tried to use a table format, but including animations means that you have to split up the data into many different sections. I prefer to keep all the data on each move together, but it really is just personal preference. The cost of doing so is the sprawling post you see above.

Also, I may have been influenced by the style of the Melee Marth frame data thread which I have been to many times.
 
Chesstiger2612

Chesstiger2612

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Thank you very much for making this. I think there are a few little differences from Melee (just from watching both gifs, please correct me if I'm wrong):
- If my impression is correct, the backwards hitbox on the second hit of nair lasts longer in Melee
- The second-most outward hitbox of f-smash is a bit more outward causing less tippers (there was a GimR match once at Xanadu where he didn't get a tipper that clearly looked like it)
- Pummel is 27 frames instead of 26
- Also a few positive things, Marths dair hitbox goes a little bit further in PM at the end of the hitbox on the outer side dued to his sword not being angled down that much
- Dash grab doesn't grab as much behind but its forward range is better now (this has effect in real situations because dash grab is more often better than JC in PM than in Melee)
- Standing grab range also slightly higher (character model differences could be distracting me though)
- Counter doesn't have that little part of Marths body not covered
I know for sure that Marths up-smash hitbox got bigger so thats a change for sure.

By the way are you sure about the down-b aka counter part?
Melee thread says invicible from 1-16, and I can't imagine it being nerfed too frame 5-6 intangibility...
 
UMR | donmk

UMR | donmk

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Chesstiger2612 said:
Thank you very much for making this. I think there are a few little differences from Melee (just from watching both gifs, please correct me if I'm wrong):
- If my impression is correct, the backwards hitbox on the second hit of nair lasts longer in Melee
- The second-most outward hitbox of f-smash is a bit more outward causing less tippers (there was a GimR match once at Xanadu where he didn't get a tipper that clearly looked like it)
- Pummel is 27 frames instead of 26
- Also a few positive things, Marths dair hitbox goes a little bit further in PM at the end of the hitbox on the outer side dued to his sword not being angled down that much
- Dash grab doesn't grab as much behind but its forward range is better now (this has effect in real situations because dash grab is more often better than JC in PM than in Melee)
- Standing grab range also slightly higher (character model differences could be distracting me though)
- Counter doesn't have that little part of Marths body not covered
I know for sure that Marths up-smash hitbox got bigger so thats a change for sure.

By the way are you sure about the down-b aka counter part?
Melee thread says invicible from 1-16, and I can't imagine it being nerfed too frame 5-6 intangibility...
Click to expand...
I can't comment too much on hitbox size, other than to say that I feel like the standing grab does have a larger range, which is especially noticeable when you are chain grabbing species on FD.

Counter works through flags in PM, which means that the move needs to connect with a hurt box to trigger. This means no little bit left out, but I think there's less horizontal area where counter will trigger.

Lastly, I did check counter a couple of time (and I believe Aerodrome checked it once as well) and am confident it is correct. Could you tell me where you got the melee numbers from?

Edit: found the numbers staring me in the face. I blame being on a phone...

My interpretation is that the counter is invincible 1-16 on activation (that is while actually throwing out the hitboxes). This means it is nerfed to 1-8 in PM. However, there are a couple of other oddities in counter which mean I will take another look in the morning just to be safe.
 
Last edited:
standardtoaster

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The melee hitbox data thread and data from superdoodleman are incorrect because he counted hitlag on the counter.

1. I'm very sure nair lasts the same amount of time as melee but I will double check.
2. I am 99% sure that fsmash matches hitbox positions exactly. Halo, our animator who did all anims for mewtwo, painstakingly matched every one of marth's attacks sans dancing blade I think
3. I'll look into this. thanks
4. See point 2
5. definitely not intended, lol. the range on dash grab is pretty ridiculous atm :p
6. Standing grab range was ported directly from melee and matches 100%
7. Not sure how you'd be able to test that since we can't visualize the counter area in brawlbox :/
 
UMR | donmk

UMR | donmk

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OK, so I rechecked everything, and I am 100% sure that counter data is accurate. Take from that what you will.

Also, @ standardtoaster standardtoaster , a few points that might help clear things up

1. Nair matches melee exactly in terms of numbers. There was a typo in the FAF in my data that I have fixed this morning.
2. Can't comment on hitbox size since I don't know how to look at that in Melee
3. Pummel has its FAF on frame 27, which means you can act ON frame 27. This gives the move a duration of 26 frames, which matches Melee.
4. See point 2
5. You seem to have covered this nicely.
6. Maybe its the way brawl handles grabs, or maybe its the slightly easier execution, but it seems I can grab spacies from a long way away compared to Melee. I know this is really non-technical, but if you could explain a reason, or even a reason that it could feel like this, I'd really appreciate it.
7. You could in theory test this using frame advance, but it would require patience the likes of which I dont have.

I'd just like to re-emphasise to anyone comparing this data to Melee, that FAF is the frame you can act on. The duration of the move is effectively FAF-1.
 
KuroganeHammer

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I can confirm what standardtoaster and don_metaknight are saying as correct. I know that might be overkill, but yeah. :>
 
Chesstiger2612

Chesstiger2612

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@ UMR | donmk UMR | donmk
Do you have the ledge occupation vaules for the [LDG] moves?

Also (directed at everyone) what are the criteria when you will have to choose a [GUP] Back and when a [GUP] Stomach option?
 
UMR | donmk

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Chesstiger2612 said:
@ UMR | donmk UMR | donmk
Do you have the ledge occupation vaules for the [LDG] moves?

Also (directed at everyone) what are the criteria when you will have to choose a [GUP] Back and when a [GUP] Stomach option?
Click to expand...
I don't have them recorded, and I probably won't have the time to find them until after my exams are done. If you want, ask @ KuroganeHammer KuroganeHammer really nicely and he might do them.

Also, stomach and back get up attacks depend on whether you land on your stomach or on your back. That means that the move you can do is determined the moment you hit the ground.
 
UMR | donmk

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I believe it is only dependent on your animation right before you hit the ground. I believe that in tumble, you have the chance to land on either your stomach or your back, depending on your orientation when you hit the ground.

Also, in my exam procrastination, I did end up finding the ledge occupancy times. I'll update the OP, but I'll post them here as well

<100% Attack: 1-42
<100% Stand: 1-32
<100% Roll: 1-40

100%+ Attack: 1-50
100%+ Stand: 1-44
100%+ Roll: 1-54

Side note, these are from brawlbox and not actually tested in game, but I believe them to be accurate.
 
shairn

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Any chance to get the data for ledge jumps?
 
UMR | donmk

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So with PM 3.5 coming out, Marth appears to have had a few changes, mainly in terms of his grabs. To be specific, the following (Taken from PM website):

Dash grab range reduced.
Turn grab's innermost hit box has been removed, removing grabs from behind Marth's back.
Jab 2 active frames 4-9

There are some global changes that may also impact him, such as the changes to get up attacks. The upshot is that this thread is now outdated, and as soon an I can get 3.5 to download (and after I mess around with it a bit) I will recheck the data and update the original post. Original Post has been updated with the new data.

EDIT: If you want to see the dash grab length changes, they're below.

[Collapse="Dash Grab Comparison"]
3.02 Dash Grab:

3.5 Dash Grab:

[/Collapse]
 
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UMR | donmk

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QuantumKiller said:
That finger range..... Thanks for the images even though we now have debug mode ;)
Click to expand...
I'll keep this thread up to date with each release, since some of the numbers are not immediately observable from debug mode unless you know what to look for. This is especially true of things like knockback. And as long as I'm going to keep the numbers up to date, I may as well do the images.
 
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Hydrargyrum said:
Where's the data for Side B (Side-2)? I don't see it..
Click to expand...
There are only two variants of the second hit of side B. The one that most people use is side B down, which will occur if you hold to the side during the second hit. The reason they are termed Up-2 and Down-2 is because that's what they're called by the moveset file (well technically they're called hi-2 and low-2).

tl;dr side B side-2 doesn't actually exist, and the game will use down-2 unless you use an upwards input.
 
SpiderMad

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don_metaknight said:
So with PM 3.5 coming out, Marth appears to have had a few changes, mainly in terms of his grabs. To be specific, the following (Taken from PM website):

Dash grab range reduced.
Turn grab's innermost hit box has been removed, removing grabs from behind Marth's back.
Jab 2 active frames 4-9

There are some global changes that may also impact him, such as the changes to get up attacks. The upshot is that this thread is now outdated, and as soon an I can get 3.5 to download (and after I mess around with it a bit) I will recheck the data and update the original post. Original Post has been updated with the new data.

EDIT: If you want to see the dash grab length changes, they're below.

[Collapse="Dash Grab Comparison"]
3.02 Dash Grab:

3.5 Dash Grab:

[/Collapse]
Click to expand...
How was the second jab changed? I never understood when they mentioned that in the change list "Jab 2 active frames..", aren't they suppose to give me 3.02's Jab 2 active frames?

Wait, there was a global change to Get-up attacks?

And do you happen to have an opinion on 3.02 to 3.5's sword sound effect changes? Primarily his aerials; I seem to think they're worse sounding.

And just for thought, what Get-up attack (Stomach or Back) would you personally prefer to be performed in-game (possibly for different situations?)? And is Block advantage for them concerning the 2nd swipe hitboxes or?
 
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UMR | donmk

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SpiderMad said:
How was the second jab changed? I never understood when they mentioned that in the change list "Jab 2 active frames..", aren't they suppose to give me 3.02's Jab 2 active frames?

Wait, there was a global change to Get-up attacks?

And do you happen to have an opinion on 3.02 to 3.5's sword sound effect changes? Primarily his aerials; I seem to think they're worse sounding.

And just for thought, what Get-up attack (Stomach or Back) would you personally prefer to be performed in-game (possibly for different situations?)? And is Block advantage for them concerning the 2nd swipe hitboxes or?
Click to expand...
Let's see if I can answer everything here.

The jab changes mean the second hit of jab comes out one frame earlier than it did in 3.0.

I apologise if this confused people, but it turns out I misread the change list. I had another look just now, and it turns out that the actual change is to get up attacks after tripping. After looking at my data, I now realise that I don't actually have that information at all (I assumed it was the same as a normal get up attack). I'll work on getting it up, but my main computer which I used to do the gifs is currently unavailable, so it may take me a little while.

As for sword sfx, well in 3.0 I felt the need to change them but I don't feel that need in 3.5. Not sure if it's because they're better or because I got lazier.

Since you can't really choose a get up attack (it depends on how you land) this question is pretty moot. As a thought though, stomach has 5 frames less duration, so maybe that. Also, it hits in front of Marth first, which is generally where you want to be hitting in most situations. To be honest, they aren't really very good at all.

As for the frame advantage on get up, @ KuroganeHammer KuroganeHammer did those calculations, so I'd be tempted to ask him. That being said, I can retest them and let you know, but it may take me a little while. Real life has a habit of eating all my spare time.
 
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iirc the block advantage is probably for the second hit

also brawl marth sounds are awesome
 
UMR | donmk

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So the full release of 3.6 came out, the only thing this changes is the roll dodge.

Forward Roll has its FAF at 32 now, rather than 36.

Backward Roll has its FAF at 32 (from 36), and invulnerability frames are now 4-19 (from 4-23)

I will update the main post to reflect this
 
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