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Marth/Falco match up

Tiggle

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 8, 2014
Messages
5
ive been playing Luigi as my main now for at least 6+ months with much success. My only hiccup is dealing with a good Marth or Faldo. I do play well vs marth but i just feel like I'm not doing something right in the match up. Like I feel I am working way to hard for my kill and Marth just gets a good fsmash and I'm ****ed. Typical Luigi problems. But I also feel the "marth killer"(tilted light shield on edge) doesn't work with Luigi. Can anyone confirm that it does? I feel like I've gotten the set up many times, but Luigi doesn't fall off the ledge and grab it fast enough. Also, which kill set up works the best to finish marth? Dthrow, Dair? Because I still feel Marth has so little hit stun that my follow ups get countered or I just don't have time to get anything accept a safe Uair.

As for Falco, I just get so choked up with a laser heavy Falco. Also I feel like I get caught in pillar combos to often and even when I DI away I'm not getting out till 60-70%. Do I really need to learn to shield all lasers? Or is their a better way to go about getting out of lasers and pillar combos?

These are very broad questions and i know most of it just comes with figuring out the match up. But any tips help
 

Yann J.Ridin

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 8, 2013
Messages
100
Location
Switzerland, La Suisse, Pays de Neuchâtel
I guess Armada said that if you dont pass the pools, you don't have to wooried about specific MU but more about general improvement/comprehenson of the game. I don't assume your level but if you are a 6 months player, I can imagine that simply improving in general will help you to cope with some of your MU problems.

Anyway, here some options for your problems:
Against Marth's Fsmash: in Neutral, just shield /WD shield and WD OOS after the hit
In combo, if you DI out, Fmsash will rarely connect,
in edgeguard, you can dodge it by sweetspoting around "perfectly"
If you are in the air, mix up you fall with fastfall and/or tornado or airdoge.

About marth killer: I never really used it, but you can fastfall after he hits your shield, and even better you angle you shield diagonally down and out so the marth hits it a bit earlier.
Anyway, to edgeguard marth, i would recommend to always grab the ledge just before he can potentially reach it in any ways

To kill Marth: yeah dtrow fair/dair can work if the marth poorly DI the throw.

Falco's lasers: act ASAP after getting hit by the laser, by WD OSS dsmash, SH OOS aerial. Or take the hit and dashdance, or throw an attack like upsmash, uptilt, ftilt. <- there are some example, just think that you have the same the neutral game/options than against the other characters but you have to throw you option between lasers.

Against pillar: just DI out. mixup your escape with DJ, aerial or DJ-tornado in sum.
 

Ladder

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
156
Location
Belgium
I guess Armada said that if you dont pass the pools, you don't have to wooried about specific MU but more about general improvement/comprehenson of the game. I don't assume your level but if you are a 6 months player, I can imagine that simply improving in general will help you to cope with some of your MU problems.

Anyway, here some options for your problems:
Against Marth's Fsmash: in Neutral, just shield /WD shield and WD OOS after the hit
In combo, if you DI out, Fmsash will rarely connect,
in edgeguard, you can dodge it by sweetspoting around "perfectly"
If you are in the air, mix up you fall with fastfall and/or tornado or airdoge.

About marth killer: I never really used it, but you can fastfall after he hits your shield, and even better you angle you shield diagonally down and out so the marth hits it a bit earlier.
Anyway, to edgeguard marth, i would recommend to always grab the ledge just before he can potentially reach it in any ways

To kill Marth: yeah dtrow fair/dair can work if the marth poorly DI the throw.

Falco's lasers: act ASAP after getting hit by the laser, by WD OSS dsmash, SH OOS aerial. Or take the hit and dashdance, or throw an attack like upsmash, uptilt, ftilt. <- there are some example, just think that you have the same the neutral game/options than against the other characters but you have to throw you option between lasers.

Against pillar: just DI out. mixup your escape with DJ, aerial or DJ-tornado in sum.
Great response but, I want to know how do we go about improving in general? To me it seems much more straightforward and easier to improve in seperate matchups, but it's probably less effective. Pls tell me things I need to work on to improve in general.

Also how do you di luigi's downthrow so he can't fair or dair you?
 

Ladder

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
156
Location
Belgium
Improving in general: play friendlies IRL/Netplay, play alone for mouvement and punishgame vanilla and 20XX 3.02, informe you: read all the http://www.meleelibrary.com/ , watch vods of pro and yours, work on your mentality in tournament (play to learn/meditate/ play the most important matches as you can,...). <- some example.

DI in/toward Luigi
Sounds good thanks man, I know you're a really good player so any advice from you is extra special.

Btw what do you think about playing against the 20xx 4.06 or 4.05 cpus? is it worse than the 3.02 ones?
 

Almost Infinite

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 5, 2012
Messages
16
Location
Phoenix, Arizona
I'd like to add to the Marth/Luigi match up a few things not mentioned
-Playing versus Marth is neutral is very hard, and it's all baiting his swings. Look at Kadano's marth frame data and look at the arcs of the swings, you can come in under a lot of them or go behind them.
-If a marth spams dtilt vs you, you can dair his head
-On recovery mix in upair/airdodge with your tornado doublejump, the tornado takes so long that often people will hold ledge too long and lose invincibility and an upair will connect or force them to roll up
-On edgeguarding marth always grab the ledge, keep refreshing invincibility and look for him doing lazy side b's to backair
-Use luigi's forward tilt more
 
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