Bowserboy3
Asking mum how to talk to a lady
Like me, some of you may have been wondering, "what is the difference in power in Marth's moves between Brawl and Smash Wii U"? I was very curious about this question; we see the term "Marth's tipper is stronger but sourspot is weaker" passed about a lot. However, is this really true? If so, on which moves? Are there any moves more powerful altogether during the transition? Well, I decided to test out Marth's moves and get the information. I'm sharing it here on the off chance that others may be interested. I hope this helps!
Notes and Rules:
With that said, onto the percentages!
---
And there you have it! Overall, Marth's tip is stronger, while the sourspot is slightly weaker.
There are some moves that are straight up more powerful in Smash 4 (Up Smash and Up Air are examples), and some that are straight up a bit weaker (Neutral Air and Dancing Blade Up 4, but it's worth mentioning his Neutral Air is still the most powerful Neutral Air in the game). Some moves have slightly stronger tippers, with virtually the same power sourspots (Forward Tilt and Forward Smash), and some moves have the same power tipper, but have slightly weaker sourspots (Forward and Back Aerials).
If anybody spots any problems, or has anything they want to input, just let me know (thanks again Vipermoon for your input).
Notes and Rules:
- All moves were tested across both games on Lucas from the dead center of Smashville. Lucas has the same weight, gravity, and fall speeds across both games, so is the perfect test subject. Smashville also has the same blast zones.
- All moves were tested from the ground, apart from Tipper Up Smash, where Lucas jumped into the tip of the move every time.
- I only tested the Tip and the Sourspot Blade during these tests. Some moves have different damages and angles on the arm, but for consistency, I only ever tested the Tip and Sourspot (the blade).
- For Down Air, please remember that Brawl has 2 hitboxes (sourspot which is no spike, and the tip which is a spike), where as Smash 4 Down Air has 3 hitboxes (sourspot which is no spike, a specific spike frame which is frame 11, and the tip hitbox, that does not spike and functions like the sourspot, but deals more damage and knockback). I tested all hitboxes for these moves.
- Counter was tested on Lucas's Up Air, as the move is the same across both versions.
- Some moves were not included in the tests, including Jabs, Dancing Blade Down 4, Forward, Back, and Down Throws, as each of these moves were either too inconsistent, or far to weak for realistic percentages.
With that said, onto the percentages!
---
Forward Tilt
Up Tilt (front)
- Tip: 140%, Sour: 233%
- Tip: 116%, Sour: 239%
Up Tilt (front)
- Tip: 141%, Sour: 131%
- Tip: 121%, Sour: 174%
- Tip: 133%, Sour: 112%
- Tip: 136%, Sour: 194%
- Tip: 316%, Sour: 378%
- Tip: 315%, Sour: 464%
- Tip: 165%, Sour: 217%
- Tip: 164%, Sour: 216%
Forward Smash (uncharged)
Of note, please remember that in Brawl, Down Smash Front is the strong hit, where as in Smash 4, Down Smash Back is the strong hit.
- Tip: 61%, Sour: 115%
- Tip: 55%, Sour: 114%
- Tip: 32%, Sour: 76%
- Tip: 30%, Sour: 76%
- Tip: 111%, Sour: 121%
- Tip: 71%, Sour: 110%
- Tip: 71%, Sour: 78%
- Tip: 41%, Sour: 71%
- Tip: 102%, Sour: 121%
- Tip: 117%, Sour: 155%
- Tip: 63%, Sour: 80%
- Tip: 79%, Sour: 112%
- Tip: 106%, Sour: 150%
- Tip: 78%, Sour: 120%
- Tip: 68%, Sour: 103%
- Tip: 46%, Sour 82%
Of note, please remember that in Brawl, Down Smash Front is the strong hit, where as in Smash 4, Down Smash Back is the strong hit.
Neutral Air (hit 2)
- Tip: 96%, Sour: 168%
- Tip: 114%, Sour: 188%
- Tip: 129%, Sour: 195%
- Tip: 130%, Sour: 210%
- Tip: 112%, Sour: 154%
- Tip: 113%, Sour: 176%
- Tip: 141%, Sour: 216%
- Tip: 130%, Sour: 190%
- Tip (spike): 182%, Sour (no spike): 178%
- Frame 11 (spike): 185%, Tip (no spike): 144%, Sour (no spike): 178%
Shield Breaker (uncharged)
- Tip: 143%, Sour: 171%
- Tip: 120%, Sour: 198%
- Tip: 34%, Sour: 41%
- Tip: 31%, Sour: 64%
- : 116%
- : 128%
- : 160%
- : 89%
- Tip: 108%, Sour: 139%
- Tip: %, Sour: %
- Tip: 105%, Sour: 135%
- Tip: %, Sour: %
- : 179%
- : 157%
And there you have it! Overall, Marth's tip is stronger, while the sourspot is slightly weaker.
There are some moves that are straight up more powerful in Smash 4 (Up Smash and Up Air are examples), and some that are straight up a bit weaker (Neutral Air and Dancing Blade Up 4, but it's worth mentioning his Neutral Air is still the most powerful Neutral Air in the game). Some moves have slightly stronger tippers, with virtually the same power sourspots (Forward Tilt and Forward Smash), and some moves have the same power tipper, but have slightly weaker sourspots (Forward and Back Aerials).
If anybody spots any problems, or has anything they want to input, just let me know (thanks again Vipermoon for your input).
Last edited: