Marth approach/offensive strat thread

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Give advice for approaching and playing offensively for Marth. Lets make a big collection for anyone who is looking to improve with Marth

 

[Spc2799]

To be perfectly honest the only approaching i do is the occasional SH nair and fair along with some dancing blade. Marth has terrible approach game so i generally wait for them to come to me, unless I'm forced to approach. in order to approach on the ground i generally mix up my movement with foxtrots and such to make myself less predictable. honestly I'm far from an expert on Marth approach so id love to hear what others have to say. video examples would be awesome as well.

 

[TheLegendarySlate]

Approaching with marth is somewhat of an art, and I find it all comes down to how your opponent reacts after a sh fair, if the fair connects, well then good for you, continue applying pressure with followups. If they shield the fair, use your double jump and fast fall max range nair for safe pressure. Also depending if you tipped the fair you can also mixup a shield breaker as it will most likely break their shield at that point. Be sure to tomahawk grab as well to mixup your approaches as they will be expecting fairs, so take advantage of that and grab them while they are scared.

 

[DariusM27]

If Marth could approach easily, I think he'd be a great character :/ He is so hard to use because of this challenge. But I'll go ahead and throw my thoughts into the ring here.

I said once that using Marth is like trying to be an effective matador in a bullfight.
I might also say that it's trying to win a game of Call of Duty, where you are using a knife (Except no 1 hit kills), and the opponent is using a fricken shot gun.
Not impossible... technically.

-If the opponent is recovering or falling to the stage, occasionally a double jump flying shieldbreaker is a fun change up option, but you have to know the timing really well to take advantage of it, assuming you know about flying shieldbreaker on stage to begin with. I find often the opponent isn't familiar with this option Marth has, so they will not know how to deal with it. The endlag is not bad, so you might catch them off guard, even if the move doesn't connect.

-A less common mixup is, run towards opponent, sh airdodge through/past them as they (Attack, shield, spotdodge). If they wait patiently and attack you after your intangible frames run out but before you can attack, then they win, but that's a somewhat small-ish window.

-Landing or walking into Dsmash is something I've tried out recently. The range isn't as good as ftilt, and worse endlage, but it comes out as fast, the hitboxes are reliable (unlike utilt), and dsmash can slide also, which can catch people off guard. There is a trick to make it slide a lot more too, involving jumping the opposite direction, instantly DIing towards opponent, and then using Dsmash once you hit the ground. Situational, but knowledge is power.

-Walking jab 'can' beat out other moves, sometimes surprisingly well, but it can be pretty risky, especially if they are trying to dash grab and attack you.

-Sometimes using shield can be a good bait. Say Sheik or Lucas does a fair on your shield. Sometimes grabbing to punish is not possible, because their jab will beat you out, however, dolphin slash out of shield has worked for me as a shield punish move. But of course it has it's challenges.

-A good-ish one is - dash, nair, instantly DI away, fastfall. Another way to use nair is - dash, shield, nair out of shield, DI away.

I think Marth has, against many opponents, one chance - one possible 'this is my only opening' type situation. And if you screw up your chance... prepare to get bodied by characters who were designed to have easy bake approaches, combos, and kill setups.
Knife - shotgun.

Edit
- Dash attack is actually not a bad move. It is a great way to force the opponent to play YOUR game. If you take the chance to hit them with it whenever possible, you may get them to start playing more defensively, because if they don't shield, you'll either punish their spot dodge with db, punish their jump with an out of shield move, or punish their roll with whatever.
Even if the dash attack fails, it's worth it by always being aggressive and making them play your game.

-Dash to dash dance cancel fsmash is a good way to punish a laggy move from a slight distance.

-You should consider the usage of sh db1. It has some potential.

Just make sure you are always aggressive, hit where they might be, and take chances. Always go for the most likely to land attack, even if it seems odds might be against you, if it's possible, go for it. Waiting around is death.

 

[Darklink401]

I love approaching with Marth, my friends say that I have a way too aggro Marth, but somehow it works XD

Marth can apply a lot of pretty safe pressure to the opponent's shield, because of his range, and if your offense is patient, it will pay off.

 

[DariusM27]

Marth can apply a lot of pretty safe pressure to the opponent's shield, because of his range, and if your offense is patient, it will pay off.

You must have meant to post in the melee marth smashboards threads. Here you go http://smashboards.com/forums/marth.69/

Sm4sh Marth doesn't apply safe pressure on shield dude, not against people who are any good anyway.

 

[Darklink401]

You must have meant to post in the melee marth smashboards threads. Here you go http://smashboards.com/forums/marth.69/

Sm4sh Marth doesn't apply safe pressure on shield dude, not against people who are any good anyway.

It's for reals bruh
Spaced falling nair on a Rosa's shield and he couldn't run and grab in time to punish. Same with the best Luigi in my country xD With the damage buffs his nair and upair are both either 0 or + on shield drop iirc.

Then they're forced to either back away, or roll towards me to escape the pressure, which I can punish with upsmash or uptilt.

 

[DariusM27]

It's for reals bruh
Spaced falling nair on a Rosa's shield and he couldn't run and grab in time to punish. Same with the best Luigi in my country xD With the damage buffs his nair and upair are both either 0 or + on shield drop iirc.

Then they're forced to either back away, or roll towards me to escape the pressure, which I can punish with upsmash or uptilt.

Or side b, or grab, maybe.

 

[Zmac122]

It's for reals bruh
Spaced falling nair on a Rosa's shield and he couldn't run and grab in time to punish. Same with the best Luigi in my country xD With the damage buffs his nair and upair are both either 0 or + on shield drop iirc.

Then they're forced to either back away, or roll towards me to escape the pressure, which I can punish with upsmash or uptilt.

Not to be rude, but there is no way in hell marth can safely approach a rosa. I am talking both players being equal skill levels. I am not looking at such outplay instaces. This thread seems to me more of consistent approaches and not Rosa did nair and had landing lag, so I was able to approach with sh nair.

 

[Darklink401]

Not to be rude, but there is no way in hell marth can safely approach a rosa. I am talking both players being equal skill levels. I am not looking at such outplay instaces. This thread seems to me more of consistent approaches and not Rosa did nair and had landing lag, so I was able to approach with sh nair.

Which is also not the situation I'm talkin about xD I'm simply approaching his shield with fair/nair and I'm safe. This is someone I go back and forth with, so it's not like I'm way above his skill level xD

 

[CanadianCourage]

Bruh we are even more FE then usual today, AWESOME!!! Btw who is my profile pic?

 

[CanadianCourage]

Bruh we are even more FE then usual today, AWESOME!!!

Btw who is my profile pic? edit why cant I delete this post?

 

[Xinc]

Tomahawk down throw is an approach I like. Dash forward and empty hop lots.

I really need to learn extended DDing.

 

[Zmac122]

Which is also not the situation I'm talkin about xD I'm simply approaching his shield with fair/nair and I'm safe. This is someone I go back and forth with, so it's not like I'm way above his skill level xD

I main yoshi and have been contemplating picking up marth as a secondary ( waiting for tourney results on marth). I really like a B reverse for people who over shield, but thats because I do it a lot with yoshi. It is also a lot easier on marth then yoshi also.

 

[Zmac122]

I main yoshi and have been contemplating picking up marth as a secondary ( waiting for tourney results on marth). I really like a B reverse for people who over shield, but thats because I do it a lot with yoshi. It is also a lot easier on marth then yoshi also.

Edit: Even that on against rosa is risky. I have a friend who mains rosa and it is cringe to be above her. Counter is useless because luma can take the damage then she up airs you.

 

[Nagol]

If you aren't in control of the game and your opponent isn't going in , Nair to Down tilt is a great option. Both moves come out super fast and are great cornering tools when trying to push your opponent to an edge. Another approach is empty short hop as Marth's Fair can sometimes be an unforgivable approach technique it's good to mix it up by simply jumping and landing next to your opponent. This is more of a mind games approach and should only do this mix up sparingly, however if you do land it you can set up your grab strings even a shield breaker potentially. If they start recognizing it they might try to punish the landing so you might be able to get the up air off when they drop shield early. Another approach is catching them in shield if they don't plan to move do two starting side b's and then a quick shield break. If you are trying to approach from the ground learn how to extended dash dance. This is something you will have to practice hours to learn and probably will take a while to implement it into your game. It's dash dancing and i'm not going to explain how awesome dash dancing is but simply put if you can't do this as a Marth player your missing part of your game. If you are being chased and you know your opponent likes to approach in shield dash away then back in. Hopefully they expect a dash attack and put up shield. If you do this correctly from the dash you can use shield breaker and slide (just a little) while your opponent slides in with his shield. If he drops shield you have a punish otherwise it's a potential shield break based on varaibles

 

[KillLock]

Marth can approach and cover most options just fine as long as you're playing a solid game, he is rather quick close/medium distance and if played correctly will often push opponents towards the ledge where they will be fighting at a disadvantage. Like DarkLink was saying earlier about offensive play, I agree Marth is a machine when played on the attack it really just depends how you look at it. Of course Marth would look like a bad character when the typical battle-command of casual players is Fair-all-day-everyday, without ever considering the tiny details where this character really shines above a lot of others.

Marth is a different beast from the other games and imo his neutral, edge guard and juggle game are far more interesting then in all previous games and just as rewarding, there is a lot of stuff Marth's just aren't doing currently to justify "Marth is bad".

Anybody who lacks the proper skill set to utilize this character fundamentally will not see much success, so save it for the lab

-also to add to that anyone who has come to this game with the mindset of Brawl or Melee Marth will also see no success because trying to fit a square cube in a triangle slot just doesn't woooooooorrrrrkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk






- "Faiiiiirrrrr" - quote from your typical Marth freshman



- here as you can see KillLock is shown viciously punching said players

Let it be known

 

[Jaypen7]

Approaching with Marth is a hassle since none of our moves are safe unless we retreat immediately after (even then some characters can still punish), which we don't wanna do. When you approach, you have to be unpredictable. Movement and mind-games are some of the most important parts to Marth's offense. I usually SHFF Nair1, jab, or SH Fair. But throwing out those moves are a gamble

 

[DariusM27]

I think an interesting mixup is full hop fastball tipper shieldbreaker.

Using shieldbreaker in air can be a handy frame trap tool, because marth doesn't have moves that last many frames.

 

[Zmac122]

I think an interesting mixup is full hop fastball tipper shieldbreaker.

Using shieldbreaker in air can be a handy frame trap tool, because marth doesn't have moves that last many frames.

B reversing into fastfall with it. B reverse is the best

 

[DariusM27]

B reversing into fastfall with it. B reverse is the best

True.

 

[Bowserboy3]

Not to be rude, but there is no way in hell marth can safely approach a rosa. I am talking both players being equal skill levels. I am not looking at such outplay instaces. This thread seems to me more of consistent approaches and not Rosa did nair and had landing lag, so I was able to approach with sh nair.

Any character with a relatively long disjoint can threaten Rosalina far easier than most other characters, thus, amplifying their approaches. The reason being, is that they can deal with Luma a lot safer than most characters. Characters like Cloud, Shulk, and Marth in particular are three matchups Rosalina can have a tough time keeping hold of Luma, because no matter what she does, they can safely hit Luma and threaten her. Even if Rosalina shields, if it's even remotely smaller, their disjoints can hit Luma safely through her shield, dispatching the star child with relative ease. Characters like Roy struggle a bit in this department, because while he has a disjoint, it's not really a "ranged" weapon, due to it's sweetspot placement, and Roy can be quite easily punished (not to mention he get's combo'd by her pretty hard due to his fall speed).

All the while in the Marth v Rosalina matchup, Rosalina must be playing far safer than usual, just because of how easy it is for her to lose Luma.

This is coming from a guy who can see the matchup from both sides; I play both Rosalina and Marth.

 

[Zmac122]

Any character with a relatively long disjoint can threaten Rosalina far easier than most other characters, thus, amplifying their approaches. The reason being, is that they can deal with Luma a lot safer than most characters. Characters like Cloud, Shulk, and Marth in particular are three matchups Rosalina can have a tough time keeping hold of Luma, because no matter what she does, they can safely hit Luma and threaten her. Even if Rosalina shields, if it's even remotely smaller, their disjoints can hit Luma safely through her shield, dispatching the star child with relative ease. Characters like Roy struggle a bit in this department, because while he has a disjoint, it's not really a "ranged" weapon, due to it's sweetspot placement, and Roy can be quite easily punished (not to mention he get's combo'd by her pretty hard due to his fall speed).

All the while in the Marth v Rosalina matchup, Rosalina must be playing far safer than usual, just because of how easy it is for her to lose Luma.

This is coming from a guy who can see the matchup from both sides; I play both Rosalina and Marth.

I somewhat agree, but you are stopping at getting rid of luma. Marth, which this is about has to much float and laggy moves. Sure he can get a fair kill luma. Then she just will rush a grab and u air you.

 

[Bowserboy3]

I somewhat agree, but you are stopping at getting rid of luma. Marth, which this is about has to much float and laggy moves. Sure he can get a fair kill luma. Then she just will rush a grab and u air you.

Without Luma, Rosalina will not "rush" and grab you at all. Quite the contrary. She will play safe, and evade most of the time because she can do very little that is effective without Luma. For example, Up Throw to Up Air is a lot harder without Luma because without him, the hitbox is a lot smaller and tough to land. Without Luma, one of her best options, Jab, is near useless because it lacks range, damage, power, and the great combo follow up angle. One of her best aerials in neutral, Neutral Air, is also irrelevant without Luma because the move does not strike early in front of her without him.

Basically, the Rosalina player would rather play it safe until Luma returns, only attacking you if absolutely necessary (on a punish for example). Rosalina will not "rush" and grab you. She will probably try to grab you, but only when cornered.

Think of it in the mind of the Rosalina player a second. "Oh, my best/safest neutral options are gone, it's harder for me to combo, and my moves are less safe overall. I better play it cautiously for 13 seconds". In this time, Marth can threaten Rosalina a lot easier with moves like his Dtilt and Nair.

 

[Zmac122]

Without Luma, Rosalina will not "rush" and grab you at all. Quite the contrary. She will play safe, and evade most of the time because she can do very little that is effective without Luma. For example, Up Throw to Up Air is a lot harder without Luma because without him, the hitbox is a lot smaller and tough to land. Without Luma, one of her best options, Jab, is near useless because it lacks range, damage, power, and the great combo follow up angle. One of her best aerials in neutral, Neutral Air, is also irrelevant without Luma because the move does not strike early in front of her without him.

Basically, the Rosalina player would rather play it safe until Luma returns, only attacking you if absolutely necessary (on a punish for example). Rosalina will not "rush" and grab you. She will probably try to grab you, but only when cornered.

Think of it in the mind of the Rosalina player a second. "Oh, my best/safest neutral options are gone, it's harder for me to combo, and my moves are less safe overall. I better play it cautiously for 13 seconds". In this time, Marth can threaten Rosalina a lot easier with moves like his Dtilt and Nair.

I only read about half your message because we are never going to never agree. I have a buddy Italked with and he agrees with me. He has been playing rosa since release. He is a top player in colorado also.

 

[Bowserboy3]

I only read about half your message because we are never going to never agree. I have a buddy Italked with and he agrees with me. He has been playing rosa since release. He is a top player in colorado also.

Yep, ok, that's fine. I have also been playing Rosalina since release. That means nothing. I am merely stating information about the matchup.

But whatever, you're entitled to believe what you want...

 

[Zmac122]

Yep, ok, that's fine. I have also been playing Rosalina since release. That means nothing. I am merely stating information about the matchup.

But whatever, you're entitled to believe what you want...

I don't think you play rosa correctly. Have you ever been to a tourney?

 

[Bowserboy3]

I don't think you play rosa correctly. Have you ever been to a tourney?

I have been plenty a tournament, why does that even matter? While I haven't attended anything super huge yet (there isn't much that huge in the UK unfortunately), at my last tournament where there was 84 entrants, I managed to get 4th using Rosalina and Marth. I'm known for being the best Rosalina and Marth in my area (to be fair, there aren't any other Rosalina or Marth players in the area lmao, that probably contributes for part of that statement).

However, I know there are plenty of ways I can improve, hence why I continue to participate in as many tournaments as I possibly can. My personal results have been getting better too, which is nice for me.

Just because we have different opinions on stuff, why question me about playing a character correctly? For a start, Rosalina excels at defensive play in the first place. My main point is; why would she suddenly abandon one of her best traits and rush in and go offensive when she loses half of her potential?

If you want to discuss this matchup, or how to play Rosalina more, either talk to me seriously in a PM, or even better, go over to the Rosalina boards. I can speak all the Marth players here, this isn't the correct place to be discussing it.