Marth and Turnips

[flyboy__]

Howdy,
I was wondering: what are people's thoughts on properly taking advantage of turnips when fighting Marth?

He's such a difficult matchup when just spacing bair and dash attack so I hoped to spruce up the neutral game. It's weird to see Armada do consistently well against M2K even in 2018 while Trif gets 3-0d by Zain.

Furthermore, does anybody have tips on making this matchup less grueling?? I find myself hating playing against Marth even in friendlies... maybe it's the intense 5 minute games, maybe it's my weak punishes on tiara-boy, maybe it's having to DI to 190% every stock, but it's probably the combination that's the worst.

 

[CAUP]

This is a pretty broad question so the answers will be pretty broad as well.

Of course having a turnip in your hand is critical against marth. If you haven't read this famous armada guide on the matchup read it here:

http://www.meleeitonme.com/armadas-guide-to-peach-vs-marth/

I'll add some of my own thoughts about the matchup. A lot of it is, if you think marth is going to approach with down tilt or grab, you want to counter by being in the air. If you think he'll approach with an aerial, you probably want to be on the ground. Marth wants to attack you from the ground when you are on the ground and from the air when you are in the air (of course this is a simplification but it's a useful one).

This is more about the mental game but I think why many lower to mid level peaches struggle with this matchup is because they refuse to accept that 1) peach loses so you have to respect marth and 2) pulling turnips is 100% necessary to play this matchup correctly. I feel like many peaches think that pulling turnips equals defensive play. That's not even the case. How on earth are you going to approach marth without a turnip? Run at him? A lot of this matchup is making approach as difficult and ambiguous for marth as possible. Turnips are critical for this.

Also any tips on making the matchup less grueling, no, there aren't really any, it's a grueling matchup. A lot of it is about endurance and self control, not overextending when it is very tempting to over extend.

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

I think direct smash throws across the ground are the best place to start. You want to do this with the intent of cutting off his dash dance and making marth feel like he wants to jump, if he dashes further back you move in try the same thing.
You'll start to develop options of what happens when he shields or jumps and what your counterplays to those are.