Mario's Sidekick: The Mario Teams Discussion. Currently Discussing: Snake

[Inferno3044]

Mario Partner Discussion​

Doubles are a far deeper and more complicated thing than singles. There are 4 characters playing at a time trying to rack up damage, help their partners, get KOs, and do awesome team combos. Certain aspects and weakness of your character can influence what character you team with. For this reason, I believe the Mario boards should have an idea of which teams are good and which aren't

Here are some questions and topics for discussion when discussing how well Mario performs with a teammate...

What is the team style?

Aggressive-Both characters are offense-oriented, rushing in for attacks and applying pressure
Defensive-Both characters are defensive and try to force approaches from the opposing team, playing reactionary.
Tag Team-The team plays in a manner that works off of eachothers' strengths. For example, one character who is good at racking damage and another who deals with KOing, or a fast character who can combo that sets up opportunies for stronger characters to deal hits.
Semi-Orientated-One member of the team plays aggressively, while the other stays back and supports them, usually via projectiles and such.

What roles does each person play?

The Finisher-The teammate who scores the kills with powerful kill moves after the opponents' damages are high.
Damage Racker- The one who uses combos and quick attacks to rack up damage on the enemy, getting them in range of KO.
Supporter-The character who stays back and supports with projectiles and other means.
Stock Tank-Keeps stocks high for the team, thus keeping the opposing team on their toes.
Positioner-The character baits out mistakes and uses techs that get the opposing team in disadvantages positions in the match, including off-stage.
Multitasker-The character who can reliably carry out the roles of all the above whenever need be.

Support:

How does Mario help this character? How does this character help Mario?

Weaknesses:

What weaknesses are shared between the characters?

Stages:

What are good stages for the team?
What stage should be banned?

Specialties:

Is cape **** possible between these people?
Anything special that should be noted about the team?
Any significant similarities or weaknesses?
Anything unique about the two that helps?

How This Will Work:

Each team will be based on a score from 1 to 10, 10 being the highest. The points will be shown using this: . Here's a vague description on some of this

- This team is completely horrible. There are no benefits for you and it's not really worth it. It really doesn't do any good and you shouldn't team with this character.

- This team is decent, but not that good. They can be decent, but they really don't benefit each other well. Teaming with this character is OK, but you can do better.

- This team is amazing. Each character benefits each other well and they can go together very well. You should try to team with this character a lot.

Because I can't use parts of Mario's head, each one will be put to the greatest whole number. Also, since Mario is allowed in low tier tournies, all low tier character discussed will have two ratios: one for regular doubles and one for low tier doubles. Under each character will be a score, a couple of stages recommended to CP and a couple of stages recommended to be banned.

These teams are based off more on Mario's teaming options so be real about this. Using a comment like "this character will help us better than Mario can" is not help. We all know we don't have a reliable 0-death like Snake + Kirby/MK has. On the other hand, a partner that helps Mario but gets little to no help from Mario wouldn't be considered an amazing team either. Who we discuss will be decided by the people, but if nobody gives one I will probably pick the highest person on the tier list not discussed or another high tier character.

Partner #1: Metaknight



Counterpicks: Battlefield, Rainbow Cruise, Norfair, Delfino Plaza
Bans: Jungle Japes, Castle Siege, Final Destination

Page 1 - Page 2

Partner #2: Snake

​

 

[Inferno3044]

I might as well start this.

Metaknight will help Mario a lot. He can safely go off stage, rack damage, and be can be very aggressive. You can both take the aggressive or let MK do it and play to support MK. Unfortunately, MK is light so Mario will have to try to stock tank, which is possible if you have really good DI. Mario can also save his kill moves if MK plans to do more damage. Cape **** can be done with MK's Uthrow.

Mario would probably be backing up MK. He can punish really well and do some good set ups for MK. Fireballs will help assuming they don't hit your partner.

Stage wise, I don't think MK has a bad stage so the banned stage should be more about where the Mario is uncomfortable and does bad on. Delfino and CS I believe are both bad Mario stages. I think BF would be good for them and maybe RC. MK owns on that stage and Mario isn't bad on it.

 

[JUDGE]

I might as well start this.

Metaknight will help Mario a lot. He can safely go off stage, rack damage, and be can be very aggressive. You can both take the aggressive or let MK do it and play to support MK. Unfortunately, MK is light so Mario will have to try to stock tank, which is possible if you have really good DI. Mario can also save his kill moves if MK plans to do more damage. Cape **** can be done with MK's Uthrow.

Mario would probably be backing up MK. He can punish really well and do some good set ups for MK. Fireballs will help assuming they don't hit your partner.

Stage wise, I don't think MK has a bad stage so the banned stage should be more about where the Mario is uncomfortable and does bad on. Delfino and CS I believe are both bad Mario stages. I think BF would be good for them and maybe RC. MK owns on that stage and Mario isn't bad on it.

everything what you said inferno.
this team racks up damage really fast while mario can kill with upsmash
if the opponent is offstage, he is dead. if mk fails to gimp the opponent mario can still do it easily.
i think mk is one of the best team mates that mario can have, even if i think mario, snake is better
cape **** rocks btw, kills super fast


EDIT: i love the way you making threads inferno <33

hope this get stickied

 

[Inferno3044]

EDIT: i love the way you making threads inferno <33

hope this get stickied

Thank you. I like knowing things and I might make more threads in the future. Btw what's your opinion of the score?

 

[A2ZOMG]

Last time I teamed with a MK, I was stock tanking like a pro. Mario kinda has to also save his KO moves in case MK fails to score necessary KOs. I remember last time I almost beat Bigfoot and DEHF in teams with Mario/MK team, and I scored 4 KOs before DEHF's Falco beat me one on one.

Generally speaking MK is a rather safe bet for teams, he can stay safe, and you have some good team combos with him including an easy Cape **** setup with MK's unique U-throw. Mario however will need to be able to score KOs on demand to help compensate for MK's overall low KO power, and you will usually be stock tanking as long as your DI is good.

 

[BoTastic!]

meh, MK kills better than mario can, you just get the gimps. The only mk I team with is online and our main strategy Is me defensive and him being the aggressive. Short story short, MK is a really good partner either way.

 

[Matt07]

Metaknight, is one of Mario's best teammates for reasons already explained above. You don't really have to worry about Metaknight being gimped, vice-versa but an u-air can save us if he has the opportunity. Metaknight has gimping abilities, and together we have okay K.O options.

 

[JUDGE]

Thank you. I like knowing things and I might make more threads in the future. Btw what's your opinion of the score?

oh yeah we would love to have some more threads of you^^
you mean the score system? as i said it's great as usal from you^^

 

[Inferno3044]

oh yeah we would love to have some more threads of you^^
you mean the score system? as i said it's great as usal from you^^

Thank you.

Although I think this is a very good team and probably one of his better teams, I don't think this is a 10/10 team. We really support MK and he will do a lot of damage for us, but I think MK's ground game is amazing enough to make up for Mario's bad ground game (it isnt crap, but it isnt good). I give this team an 8 out of 10. What do you guys think?

EDIT: What stages would be really good/bad for them?

 

[$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$]

MK rack up the damage and Mario kills. MK will make Mario's ground game easier, they got the aerials, and combo strings. Easy and simple in my opinion.

 

[Big-Omar]

I'd say Final destination would be a good stage for Mario and MK. Enough room Mk to be aggressive while at the same time not hitting us in the proccess. Also, bigger stage means easier for us to use fireballs without hitting our partner. Only bad side is if it comes down to 1 vs 1 between Mario and a D3. But that shouldnt happen too often >_>

 

[Inferno3044]

I'd say Final destination would be a good stage for Mario and MK. Enough room Mk to be aggressive while at the same time not hitting us in the proccess. Also, bigger stage means easier for us to use fireballs without hitting our partner. Only bad side is if it comes down to 1 vs 1 between Mario and a D3. But that shouldnt happen too often >_>

I think differently about this. Mario and MK both are really good at platform control. I think BF is the best because it's on of the only stages that I can think that both of them do very well on. Halberd and Brinstar might be good, but I'm not sure. To ban, either Delfino or CS. Both of these characters are good edgeguarders and they can't do it without an edge. I'd rather ban Delfino because Mario does worse there. I think it's his worst stage.

 

[vato_break]

Don't forget the cape **** ;]

 

[Big-Omar]

Well, its still an okay stage. And i forgot about battefeild. Only reason i dont like it cus MK can get wild at times and i'd get sucked into whorenado and such.

 

[$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$]

Well, its still an okay stage. And i forgot about battefeild. Only reason i dont like it cus MK can get wild at times and i'd get sucked into whorenado and such.

BF is a gud stage for Mario. As long as the MK player doesn't be dumb enough to u suck in the whorenado of ****, u'll be ok, btw Big-O, it's me, Lil' G

 

[mars16]

Team Mario and MK

If I choose to be Mario for the team I'd be more on the defensive side because I'm the one with the fire balls.
Once the enemy is off the stage I could go in with a meteor punch. After MK racks the damage I could use a forward smash or up smash
If I choose to be MK I'd be mostly offensive, just put in alot of damage then Mario could come in and hit'em.

 

[Inferno3044]

Team Mario and MK

If I choose to be Mario for the team I'd be more on the defensive side because I'm the one with the fire balls.
Once the enemy is off the stage I could go in with a meteor punch. After MK racks the damage I could use a forward smash or up smash
If I choose to be MK I'd be mostly offensive, just put in alot of damage then Mario could come in and hit'em.

Relying on the meteor punch isn't smart. It's slow and is meant to be used rarely. For off stage, leave it to MK. He can fly.

I give this team an 8/10. Any opinions?

 

[Big-Omar]

Nope not really Inferno. Lets go on with the next character. Maybe snake?

 

[$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$]

8/10 is good for Mario and Meta-Knight, I'm ready to discuss Snake when y'all is ready to discuss about him and Mario.

 

[Inferno3044]

OK. Just one last thing. About stages I'm gonna say good CPs are Battlefield and Rainbow Cruise and that they should ban Delfino. Any other stages you guys think should be added to either side?

 

[Big-Omar]

Ban Castle seige. I hate it lol

 

[Inferno3044]

OK. I'm gonna do Snake next because he is by far the most common except for MK.

 

[Big-Omar]

Mario is the agressive one in this team. he will rack up damage via combos while snake will camp with nades and such. Snake will kill the opponets with utilt obviously. And if it comes to 2 vs 1, Snake can stick Mario with a c4 and mario can grab the opponet if hes around 120%, then Snake will set off the c4. A good stage, im my opinion, could be Final Destination because of the room it will provide for snake's nade game. Battle Field is also a good choice because mario has platform control and snake can utilt from below the platforms

 

[Veggi]

As much as I hate to call people out. The discussions going on here are just mad dumb.
Things like "x character is really good at y thing and z character is really good at y thing too, so between them they can have an amazing amount of y thing " are not good discussions because it doesn't show how well the team will sync and completely disregards the drawbacks of a character.

Alright, Mario and MK can gimp, but does that show how well they gimp as a team? No. Is it implied they will gimp well? Yes. However it doesn't leave any sort of a plan because the whole game isn't about gimping and as long as you can't gimp someone and they are wandering around the stage doing damage at 120% it's surely not a very good team.

 

[$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$]

Gud stages for Mario and Snake.

Final Destination - Mario will do well on it and Snake can have more space than Battlefield.
Battlefield - Snake can just go ahead be on ground and spam his up-tilts when his opponents in the air and laying the c4s on the platforms while Mario rack up the damage.
Yoshi's Island - Same as Battlefield imo.
Castle Siege - 1st part is small, Mario can handle it but Snake need more space to perform his moves. 2nd and 3rd part would somewhat benefit Snake but the 2nd part is the best part for Snake to lay c4s and land mines around.
Delfino Plaza - Mario's worst stage, the only things that is gud for Mario on that stage is platforms and the walls (trapping your opponent w/ neutral A only to rack up damage and let Snake kill).
Lylat Cruise - This stage would be help Mario's aerials and Snake's tilts and c4s, it's like Battlefield.

I dunno about Smashville and Frigate Orpheon, it's smallish, I dunno how Mario and Snake work on there cuz Snake needs that space to maintain to help out Mario to make up his strength.

 

[Veggi]

When was it decided that Delfino Plaza is Mario's worst stage?

 

[BoTastic!]

Delfino isn't bad, lol.

 

[Veggi]

I actually thought it was one of his best stages. If nothing else, it has to be better than Jungle Japes.

 

[mars16]

I think battlefeild is Mario and Snake's best stage

 

[BoTastic!]

Jungle japes is ridiculous. Snake is somewhat good there actually but not Mario at all. You'd have to counter pick.

 

[Veggi]

I use DK and Mario about equally and Snake can even give my DK a hard time if he camps the left platform with grenades and up smashes. It's so dumb because his explosions go through the platform so I can't shark him without it stage spiking me.

Mario just sucks there because he isn't Michael Phelps and he doesn't have the horizontal recovery to make up for it.

I think battlefeild is Mario and Snake's best stage

I agree that Battlefield is the team's best bet. At least for a neutral.

 

[mars16]

They both can be very good on offense and defense.

Offense:Mario attacking and Snake putting in extra damage with his projectile and also having good stage control with those mine bomb things.

Defense: Mario's got the cap and fludd to edge guard , Snake has the strong forward tilt....and high priority.

 

[Big-Omar]

Jungle japes is ridiculous. Snake is somewhat good there actually but not Mario at all. You'd have to counter pick.

My Mario ***** on Japes lol....

 

[$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$]

When was it decided that Delfino Plaza is Mario's worst stage?

lol I been hearing guys saying Delfino is bad for Mario cuz of his recovery. I know it don't look it tho, I mean I know Mario does fairly well on the stage.

@ Bo - Snake sux on Jungle Japes period.

 

[Inferno3044]

Delfino isn't bad for Mario? I've thought that it was his worst stage (might just be a personal thing). I'll take that off the list. Also Veggi, it isn't just that they are both good at gimping. Their roles together is that MK plays aggressively while Mario gives him good support. Mario can easily get him off stage and MK can finish it. If MK screws up, then Mario steps in. The team can actually be really aggressive and apply very good pressure.

Now for Snake. Snake seems like a great partner for Mario. Snake can take ground based enemies while Mario can take them down in the air. Snake is an excellent punisher. Any smash on Mario can be punished by ftilt. Of course Snake will stock tank and be scoring most kills while Mario racks damage. I think nades are more feared than fireballs so if either character should play defensive, it probably would be Snake. Edgeguarding isn't necessary that much with this team but it helps. If one person is offstage, focus on the person still on stage. Rack up some damage on him and try to kill him.

 

[Big-Omar]

I think Snake and Mario should be 8/10 cus of Snake's Nade game and his stupid good utilt.

 

[Veggi]

Veggi's Review of the MK/Mario Team

MK is one of the best team characters for his great ability to stay the hell out of the way when he needs to, he has a great recovery to keep from being team gimped, and overall he's just a very good character. MK also possesses a good ability to reset bad positions easily with his tornado as well as set them up with his good throws. MK's excellent recovery and uair speed help to prevent gimps as well. MK's greatest ability is edgeguarding and racking up damage, rather similar to Mario.

There is really nothing deep going on here. MK is a good character who can handle himself extremely well and any support he can get from Mario is just a bonus. While MK is with the opponents Mario can mess around jumping up and down and shooting fireballs and waiting for people to go after him. However, beyond that the only thing they have is the cape **** off of MK's uthrow which isn't that great.

The synergy is pretty decent, but then the opponent needs to die and the MK wonders why he wanted to team with a Mario.

Mario basically leeches off of MK being really good and offers some sub-par support. The team is kind of good only because MK is really good.



Seven Mario heads. By normal standards it's a pretty good team, but the MK is going to wish he teamed with a Snake, Dedede, or Wario. They can do Mario's job, but ya know...a lot better. I recommend finding a character that does well with Mario instead of finding a really good character that gets held back by Mario.

lol I been hearing guys saying Delfino is bad for Mario cuz of his recovery. I know it don't look it tho, I mean I know Mario does fairly well on the stage.

How does the stage influence his recovery? If anything it makes it better because Mario has his cape as a stall tool so he can wait for the stage to come up below him. He can't do it nearly as well as Peach can, but it can still work.

Also Veggi, it isn't just that they are both good at gimping. Their roles together is that MK plays aggressively while Mario gives him good support. Mario can easily get him off stage and MK can finish it. If MK screws up, then Mario steps in. The team can actually be really aggressive and apply very good pressure.

So Mario can hold stocks in the matchup while the MK does work. I agree, I believe MK is quite good with characters that act as support and wait for good opportunities (although Sonic is a support character and I don't believe he does well with MK, probably just because he offers a different type of support.)

I don't think that it is a good idea for Mario to hold aggression in this team because MK can do fine handling two people and if someone decides to go after Mario, Mario has nice options on the defensive. If MK and Mario both played aggro, I'm afraid they would do too much damage to each other. Mario doesn't have very good knockback power and MK doesn't either, which is probably the largest draw back for this team.

 

[$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$]

Veggi's Review of the MK/Mario Team

MK is one of the best team characters for his great ability to stay the hell out of the way when he needs to, he has a great recovery to keep from being team gimped, and overall he's just a very good character. MK also possesses a good ability to reset bad positions easily with his tornado as well as set them up with his good throws. MK's excellent recovery and uair speed help to prevent gimps as well. MK's greatest ability is edgeguarding and racking up damage, rather similar to Mario.

There is really nothing deep going on here. MK is a good character who can handle himself extremely well and any support he can get from Mario is just a bonus. While MK is with the opponents Mario can mess around jumping up and down and shooting fireballs and waiting for people to go after him. However, beyond that the only thing they have is the cape **** off of MK's uthrow which isn't that great.

The synergy is pretty decent, but then the opponent needs to die and the MK wonders why he wanted to team with a Mario.

Mario basically leeches off of MK being really good and offers some sub-par support. The team is kind of good only because MK is really good.



Seven Mario heads. By normal standards it's a pretty good team, but the MK is going to wish he teamed with a Snake, Dedede, or Wario. They can do Mario's job, but ya know...a lot better. I recommend finding a character that does well with Mario instead of finding a really good character that gets held back by Mario.





How does the stage influence his recovery? If anything it makes it better because Mario has his cape as a stall tool so he can wait for the stage to come up below him. He can't do it nearly as well as Peach can, but it can still work.



So Mario can hold stocks in the matchup while the MK does work. I agree, I believe MK is quite good with characters that act as support and wait for good opportunities (although Sonic is a support character and I don't believe he does well with MK, probably just because he offers a different type of support.)

I don't think that it is a good idea for Mario to hold aggression in this team because MK can do fine handling two people and if someone decides to go after Mario, Mario has nice options on the defensive. If MK and Mario both played aggro, I'm afraid they would do too much damage to each other. Mario doesn't have very good knockback power and MK doesn't either, which is probably the largest draw back for this team.

Mario's recovery is ok on that stage depending how the opposing player knock him off the stage when the stage flying around Delfino. For example, you know Lucas f-smash, Mario can't even recover from that if he's get edgeguarded. Nothing makes his recovery better except the cape.

 

[mars16]

I give Mario and Snake a 9/10

 

[Veggi]

@ Lil' G

I don't understand what makes Delfino different from all of the other floating island-type stages he gets knocked off of.