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Mario's Priorities . . . . . . (small update 12/1)

UberMario

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 17, 2009
Messages
3,312
Alright, I spent the last 90 minutes testing different situations with some of Meta-Knight's . . . . . more infamous moves and seeing which ones Mario could outprioritize.

Meta-Knight:

Mach Tornado:

Outprioritize:
U-Smash: Works from both the bottom AND the sides of the tornado if his head hits first
F-Smash: Situational, it must hit with the flame, if not it has no effect.
D-Smash: Situational, the first hit beats the tornado if it connects with MK himself and MK is heading in a downward direction. Strangely, the second hit, which has more range, does absolutely nothing to Mach Tornado.
Mario Tornado (D-Air): BEATS Mach Tornado when used from above, beaten by Meta-Knight when used from the sides or below. A second, far more situational method involving hitting him from the side with the Mario Tornado's final hit is possible, but nowhere near reliable.
Fireballs: Can hit MK directly from above. Basically, imagine a basketball hoop: you have to get the fireball into the hoop [tornado] in order to "score".
Super Jump Punch: Hits from both the bottom AND the sides of the tornado if he hits with his fist first AND is when Mario is actually moving, any earlier and the stronger, LOWER priority "stalled" hit will result in Mario getting hit by the Mach Tornado. Needless to say the fist has to connect with MK himself to work.
Cape: As long as Mario hits MK himself, it will always connect once it comes out of the cape's starting animation, with the strongest punishment to you then being 1%-2% of damage when you hit him. This isn't that hard because the Cape can connect FURTHER horizontally than the top of the Mach Tornado can. Basically, the cape's hitbox can reach from about two body lengths away.
FLUDD: Works like normal, but you must hit MK himself, hitting the top of the tornado won't work.
B-Air?: I managed this twice in the same match, with the MK and I heading full speed at each other both times, but I haven't been able to recreate it since then . . . . .

Cancels Mario:
U-Tilt: If it connects with the center, it will not cause either party damage and will stop Mario's animation, but it has no useful purpose and will more likely result in Mario losing the "tie".


Don't work:
F-Tilt
D-Tilt
Jab
U-Air
Slide
Grab

Drill Rush:
Outprioritize:

-Cape: Will hit if you bring it out before the sword makes contact, but Mario will still take damage.
-FLUDD: Works fine, pushes them upwards.
-FSmash: Only connects if they are moving straight forward.
-USMash: Only connects if they are level with or above Mario.
-UTilt: Only connects if they are above Mario.
-F-Air: Situational, must be done BEHIND the sword and in the direction Meta-Knight is going.

Don't work:
Anything else, including the other aerials. (Maybe B-Air and U-Air on Drill Rush from behind, but it didnt work for me)

Shuttle Loop:
TBA, Super Jump Punch doesn't outprioritize, but can connect during the startup lag due to it's speed. The cape also occasionally works from personal experience.

Dimensional Cape:
Works:
-FLUDD: If you push MK off the stage with FLUDD when he returns [EVEN in the ending lag of the "returning attack" he uses] he'll go into a freefall automatically and can't grab the ledges without immediate DI, unless they came out near the ledge, then even with DI it's a free kill due to the surprisingly low "snap-on" range the model has.
Doesn't work:
-You can barely hit him on his return with some attacks, but it's super situational and difficult to determine if it's the timing or not.

F-Air:
Works:
-Super Jump Punch: Cuts through his sword like a knife on butter.
(Anything from the back)

D-Air:
Works:
-Super Jump Punch: Will result in damage and knockback for both characters, Mario is more likely than MK to force through.
-F-Smash: if Mario is one body width to the side, otherwise it wouldn't connect anyway.
(Anything from above)

Don't work:
-Mario Tornado
-U-Smash
-Cape (seemingly at all)

N-Air:
Works:
-Super Jump Punch

U-Air:
Works:
-Super Jump Punch (may not actually hit MK, but it seems to outprioritize enough to "spam away" from a top kill if used rapidly)
(Anything from below)

B-Air:
Works:
-Super Jump Punch
(Anything from in front)

Lucario

Double Team:
NOTHING He's completely immune to any attacks while he is in his "counterstate", not even Super Jump Punch or fireballs seem to work, and good luck getting FLUDD out after triggering him. Of course, you can simply grab him and prevent the counter state from occuring (or charge a Smash until his animations stops), but I was simply testing his counter attack.

Marth

Standard attacks:

I'm just going to lump all of these together, because they all interact with Mario's attacks the same [priority-wise]. Fireballs will still hit Marth when he attacks IF the sword does not hit it while it is moving. For example, when Marth uses his Down Tilt, the fireballs get through when the blade is stopped on the ground, but not while it is moving forward. (Speaking of which, the fireballs can bounce over the down tilt's hitbox if you time it correctly). Mario's other moves seem to have no affect on the sword itself, however, so the only real counter would be to attack close and aim for Marth himself.






Basically, use Up-B, all the time! lol



Ok not really, but if you see an aerial coming in to finish you off, time to bring it out! It works against nearly all of MK's aerial finishers directly, with Shuttle Loop only being "outprioritized" indirectly by startup time. I haven't tested the gliding attack yet.

Also, whenever you see a MK trying to guard the stage with U-Smash, make sure to bring out FLUDD and "glide" with it, or use your cape to stall it out. Mario shouldn't need to worry about DSmash [much less FSmash] that much, as you shouldn't use Mario in the ground against him. For some strange reason Mario is more of an aerial-based character in Brawl. >_>

Anyone have any specific attack suggestions for me to test? I'm not just doing MK, he just was an obvious starting choice when it came to the subject.

Newly added to the list as of 12/1 (I will be updating this quicker. To be honest, I forgot about this >_>; )

Waiting list:
Meta-Knight's F-Tilt [Re-doing analysis, I forgot to post it, but I THINK I was able to send fireballs through the first two hits, don't take my word on it though)
Marth's Dancing Blade
Marth's Counter [Note, FLUDD can activate Counter, don't use it against him when he does this!]
Snake's Tilts and Jab
Wario's U-Air
Pikachu's D-Smash
Lucario's D-Air
Marth's Grab Release
Sonic's Spin Dash [The only attack I can confirm gets through are grounded fireballs, they completely wreck all of Sonic's ground approaches because he can't spin toward you without having to eat these]
Ice Climber's Blizzard
Falco's Laser
Pit's Arrows
Pit's Spinning Blade [F-Smash's disjoint gets through just fine, not sure about anything else]
Mr. Game & Watch's D-Tilt
Mr. Game & Watch's B-Air
 

BSP

Smash Legend
Joined
May 23, 2009
Messages
10,246
Location
Louisiana
Does Up B oos have enough range to punish MK's ftilt? That would be soooo useful for us.
 

SKidd

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 27, 2010
Messages
3,141
Location
B.C.
I just realized the only reason we stand a chance against MK is because no MKs bother to learn the Mario matchup.
 

DtJ XeroXen

The biggest fraud
Joined
Aug 22, 2008
Messages
4,166
Location
Fort Wayne, Indiana
NNID
XeroXen
Does Up B oos have enough range to punish MK's ftilt? That would be soooo useful for us.
Off the top of my head, I wouldn't think it would. Feel free to test it though! I like to watch and see what they plan on doing after they Ftilt, if they rush at me I'll up-b them on the startup of what is likely to be a dash... not if they walk though. (You could just retreat in that case), if they do another attack that isn't Ftilt I'd likely punish it with Up-B.

Up-B's invincibility frames go through anything, too bad there's only three of them. :(
 

Calebyte

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 4, 2009
Messages
1,257
Location
Santa Cruz, CA
Finally got around to reading through all this. This a great list, very useful info. Just want to encourage you to keep it up!
 

Matador

Maybe Even...Utopian?
Joined
Jun 9, 2007
Messages
5,718
Location
Bowie, MD
Yeah, the last hit of Dair cleanly beats Nado too. I think it's disjointed or something.
 
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