Mario's potential in Ultimate

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Jun 4, 2015
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#1
Hey guys,

Just as the title says, I am a little bit worried about Mario's viability in Ultimate considering the nerfs made to his combo game (understandable but still...). I know the game is not finished and not definite, but I can't help to get worried that other characters got buffed which may make his matchups harder. I feel that while the new mechanics may benefit Mario, the nerfs in airdodges may make Mario's disadvantage state much more exploitable such as him being easier to juggle and to exploit his recovery a little easier. Plus, the lower hitstun (not sure...) doesn't help at all, since Mario benefits so much from combos. I'm still hype to play him (since I'm loyal to this character), but I am a little worried. What do you guys think about this? Am I the only who's worried?
 

Kremling Man

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#3
I think Mario will be okay his u-tilt into the Up Smash might be nerfed plus some of his other attacks like down throw maybe, but that's just a guess not sure but we'll see. Honestly I think he'll be fine.
 

Fell God

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#4
I don't play Mario, but if there is any consolation, at least some of his competition (Bayonetta, Cloud, Sonic, etc.) are getting hit pretty hard too.
 
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#6
The nerfs are slightly worrying, but I don’t think they’ll hurt him too much. A character with Mario’s frame data could never be bad.
 
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#7
I expect this iteration of Mario to be slightly worse than his Smash 4 counterpart, but better than his 64, Melee and Brawl iterations. Based on the mechanics, he should be still solid since I feel he's pretty much the same as the last game, but just harder to perform combos. Hope we're right about this.
 

lordvaati

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#8
Mario hit his peak in Smash 4, which is fair and away his best incarnation in a Smash game to date.
I expect a slight decline in Ultimate, but he should still be solid due to some of the beneficial things to him coming back such as Ledge Trumping.
 

Kremling Man

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#9
Mario's strengths are in his combos, and solid game overall, I hope to become better with combos, the well placed, USmash, and his balanced stats, aerials, throws ECT. He won't be as good as Sma4sh but still good. Good enough.
 

DunnoBro

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#10
Nah, Mario's fine. The Uair > Upb combos are far more potent, especially with worse airdodges and stronger super jump punch. Nerfed grab combos were necessary. It's also harder to get grabs in general since we can't shield dash, personally I think Mario will transition well. High tier at worst.

FLUDD is more dangerous with the airdodge mechanics, Ledge Jump too. Which was originally Mario's hardest option to cover. My main worry is how good his bair is on shield, and how reliable frametraps with SJP are. (In Smash 4, DI out lets Uthrow frame trap for kills with Uair/SJP, with the stronger SJP this may be a straight true combo sometimes)
 
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#19
The nerfs are slightly worrying, but I don’t think they’ll hurt him too much. A character with Mario’s frame data could never be bad.
The thing is, Doctor Mario and Mario have the same frame data on all of their moves (except down b obvi). But doc is f tier. Mario’s mobility and combo game is what makes him great, not just frame data. If tier lists were based off of frame data, Yoshi and doctor Mario would be top tiers. I’m pretty sure mario is gonna be at least b tier, but I wouldn’t say he isn’t able to be bad.
 

Dwayne -

Smash Rookie
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#21
Looking at Mario's nerf to his combo game, he might've changed a bit.

But hey, the game isn't finished yet. Maybe his combo game will be back up to speed like as of Smash 4.
 

Kremling Man

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#22
Mario's combo game is his bread and butter.

So it getting a nerf might seem bad but I'm sure the players us included they will figure out stuff to work around it and keep his combo game on point.
 

Mariomaniac

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#23
Pretty sad, I think mario is going to be really mediocre in ultimate. He didn’t get anything in exchange for a lot of his combos they destroyed. Down throw is gone, his always that didn’t had much lag (except fair) are less laggy . And grabbing with him feels awful now because of the end lag they added. Honestly as much as grabs were essential to his game, that one change makes him feel really laggy as a character now.

I was hoping he would have been one of the few characters that didn’t get any lag added to his grabs. His up air string to up B looks like it might still be possible at least
 

BryanD

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#24
I think Mario is still a very solid character in Ultimate. He keeps a lot of his stuff from 4 but now with less landing lag on aerials, faster jabs, he just loses the mindless things like Dthrow UpTilt for days. I think they made Up Air string better. I’ve been using Up Air(s) to Up B on stages like Battlefield, PS1, Town and City, anything with platforms tbh, with great results and getting some earlier KOs with it. As for his grab game, universally grabs are worse all around, including shield grabs, so it’ll be a bit harder to get a grab than Smash 4 as any character. Up Throw is your best friend, follow that up with Up Airs, maybe a Nair to mix it up depending on DI.

He may not be a top tier, but he’s definitely a viable character! :ultmario:
 
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#30
Mario feels pretty nice. I'm sure he'll still be high tier. His bair is still pretty nice and quick for spacing, uair is great for juggling. I can manage to get about 4 uairs in and follow up with up B finisher in battle field-like stages. He honestly feels the same and he'll probably do even better due to how air dodges work now. His dthrow is definitely nerfed but you can still dthrow to uair in high enough %, but his uthrow to uair is much more consistent.
His mobility seems pretty good too. He can get around the stage pretty quick and I have no issues with his recovery either. I just can't see Mario being anything lower than high tier.
 

Mariomaniac

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#31
Idk. For some reason his movement feels really strange. Not sure if it’s the grab lag or what, but even RAR b-airs/bair chains are harder to do than they were in 4, a lot of the time I accidentally fair when going for RAR bair or switch to fair in the middle of chaining Bairs
 
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#32
I like his new fireball. looks nice. has anyone measured charge time for fludd/squirtle neutral b? info would be interesting
 
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DunnoBro

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#33
Idk. For some reason his movement feels really strange. Not sure if it’s the grab lag or what, but even RAR b-airs/bair chains are harder to do than they were in 4, a lot of the time I accidentally fair when going for RAR bair or switch to fair in the middle of chaining Bairs
SH and DJ bair give Mario a bigger momentum burst now while rising. (Even without DI, mario moves about a roll distance)

So it might be throwing off your spacing, though I also understand what you mean.
 
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