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Mario Universe Mario Sunshine 2 Vs Galaxy 3

Which Mario Game would you like to see next?

  • Galaxy 3

    Votes: 11 34.4%
  • Sunshine 2

    Votes: 17 53.1%
  • I don't want either

    Votes: 4 12.5%

  • Total voters
    32

BubbaDuke

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Both great games. This is a thread to discuss which game you'd prefer to get a sequel. Assuming Nintendo does make a more traditional Mario 3D Platformer for the Wii U, it seems likely they'd make a Galaxy sequel considering it's success.

super-mario-wii-u-640x439.jpg

I personally would prefer Sunshine. In my opinion, it had more unique gameplay, a much better hub world with Isle Delfino, and better level design. Mario Galaxy is much more linear than Sunshine was, which I feel should be left to games like 3D World.

Thoughts?
 

finalark

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I don't want either. Sunshine is nostalgic, but I feel like the reason why people are suddenly clamoring for a Sunshine 2 is because the game is over a decade old and everyone who is old enough to have been a kid when it came out is in college now. Most people want Sunshine 2 so they can recapture a piece of their childhood one more time before they have to boldly step forward into the menacing world of adulthood.

Wow, that came out way more cynical than I had intended.

As for Galaxy 3, I thought Galaxy 2 was boring and derivative and I'm ****ing sick of Space Waifu I don't imagine a potential Galaxy 3 would be anything noteworthy. I'd rather Nintendo find a new and creative way to expand the 3D Mario formula rather than just rehash a preexisting game.

Although in hindsight I can see why Nintendo switched over to isometric Mario. If Galaxy 2 proved anything its that there's not a whole lot left that you can do with the Mario 64 formula at this point.
 

TheDarkKnightNoivern

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I'd rather have something new, although I'd go with Sunshine 2 if I had the choice, Galaxy 1 and 2 are already similar enough and I don't imagine a 3rd being much difference.

Although a sunshine remake would work well too
 

Quillion

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Well, to use terminology from the Melee/Brawl wars from the pre-release period of Smash U...

A Sunshine 2.0 would be a lot better than Galaxy 3.0 because Sunshine encouraged exploration and adventuring.

Of course, both would pale to a Mario 64 2.0.
 

Schiffe

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Super Mario Sunshine 2.0 hands down.

Seeing the many cut features of Super Mario Sunshine (including the cut levels and the infamously cut "Delfino Express"), I wouldn't doubt they'd make it into the final game. A

Not only that, reliving the nostalgia of the original SMS would make me die of happiness. The potential of this game would be phenomenal.
 

TheDarkKnightNoivern

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Well, to use terminology from the Melee/Brawl wars from the pre-release period of Smash U...

A Sunshine 2.0 would be a lot better than Galaxy 3.0 because Sunshine encouraged exploration and adventuring.

Of course, both would pale to a Mario 64 2.0.
Meh, In my opinion 64 has aged very poorly and if I'm honest it's not that great from a design standpoint either
 

SphericalCrusher

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I would prefer Sunshine 2 since it's been longer since we had Sunshine than Galaxy, but I doubt we ever get either. I could see a Mario Galaxy HD though with both games or even a Sunshine HD. I'm hoping the next Mario game is single player and more like SM64/Galaxy 2 although I love Super Mario 3D World.
 

Quillion

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Meh, In my opinion 64 has aged very poorly and if I'm honest it's not that great from a design standpoint either
Only the base core should be brought back. Then everything else can be updated to modern standards (hell, even adopting stuff from Sunshine).
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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I feel like there should be a game that has Rosalina as the main protagonist. Captain Toad had his time in the spotlight after all.

Of course, for Rosalina, she could probably help a young prince from a distant galaxy save his home from an evil alien race.
 

Muskrat Catcher

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Super Mario Galaxy for sure! That series was my favorite set of games on the Wii (before I foolishly sold it)! It is true that these two games both show the apex of innovation in the Mario franchise, and both deserve to be continued or remade, but I prefer super mario galaxy. It may be because I have never played Sunshine, or because I am pretty much obsessed with space in general, but I believe that the platforming in the galaxy series was like nothing else!
 

LancerStaff

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I don't want a non-linear "explore the same level ten times" Mario ever again, so Galaxy. But I'd rather see something new, maybe expanding on the 3D Land style.
 
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I feel like there should be a game that has Rosalina as the main protagonist. Captain Toad had his time in the spotlight after all.

Of course, for Rosalina, she could probably help a young prince from a distant galaxy save his home from an evil alien race.
Bowser deserves one first (Bowser's Inside Story doesn't count, it was a Mario & Luigi game). He has been around longer and is more iconic than Yoshi, Wario, Captain Toad and Rosalina.
 
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Rie Sonomura

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Neither. I'd prefer a straight up HD port of the original Sunshine (like how they did with Wind Waker HD, and add GC adapter support because analog triggers). I don't really think anything new can be done story-wise in the Sunshine universe since the original kinda gave it some closure IMO. The Galaxy universe (see what I did there?) is fine as it is now, as well.
 
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TheDarkKnightNoivern

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Neither. I'd prefer a straight up HD port of the original Sunshine (like how they did with Wind Waker HD, and add GC adapter support because analog triggers). I don't really think anything new can be done story-wise in the Sunshine universe since the original kinda gave it some closure IMO. The Galaxy universe (see what I did there?) is fine as it is now, as well.
I think it'd be nice if they expanded on Rosalina's character a bit more since she was planned to have a bigger role in Galaxy 2 before miyamoto shot it down although it'd be fine if they left it
 

Planet Cool

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Sunshine is the only Mario game I've played that I completely despise, although I'm sure a sequel could fix its many, many, many flaws and turn out pretty great. (I've had some ideas myself, such as island-hopping for more varied settings; letting Fludd suck up different kinds of liquids, including lava; and having hot / cold levels where you shoot steam and ice instead of water, for instance. And cut the blue coins entirely.)

On the other hand, Super Mario Galaxy is my favorite Mario game and one of my favorite games of all time (Galaxy 2 is pretty great too, but it lacks the original's dreamlike atmosphere). I'd love a Galaxy 3 as well as an HD re-release of the first two. If only so Mario and Luigi can finally square off against the Angry Sun from Super Mario Bros. 3 in its natural habitat.
 

Tino

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As much as I would love to see a third Mario Galaxy game, I'd prefer they make a new 3D Mario game in the style of Mario 64 and, of course, Galaxy. It would be awesome if they were to re-release Mario Galaxy and the sequel in HD.

However, I'm more interested in Rosalina having her own game and expanding her character even more.
 

TheDarkKnightNoivern

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As much as I would love to see a third Mario Galaxy game, I'd prefer they make a new 3D Mario game in the style of Mario 64 and, of course, Galaxy. It would be awesome if they were to re-release Mario Galaxy and the sequel in HD.

However, I'm more interested in Rosalina having her own game and expanding her character even more.
I think it'd be nice to see Rosalina get a spin-off, I remember seeing something about a puzzle game based on stargazing most likely using the 3DS gyroscope, I think it was an idea from a nintendo life article but idk
 

Planet Cool

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As much as I would love to see a third Mario Galaxy game, I'd prefer they make a new 3D Mario game in the style of Mario 64 and, of course, Galaxy. It would be awesome if they were to re-release Mario Galaxy and the sequel in HD.

However, I'm more interested in Rosalina having her own game and expanding her character even more.
I wouldn't mind if Rosalina took over the Galaxy sub-series so Mario can experiment with other stuff, or a return to the Mario 64 style like you said.
 

ChikoLad

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If I had to choose, Galaxy 3.

For the simple reason that the only reason I ever see people give for wanting Sunshine 2 more is "MUH EXPLORATION". Ignoring the fact that Sunshine wasn't THAT open ended (and when it was, it often felt too empty - but that's a whole other discussion. Sunshine is incredibly overrated)...you guys DO realise that how open ended a Mario game, or any game is, has nothing to do with whether or not you have FLUDD or the spin jump, a tropical setting or a cosmic setting, and has everything to do with HOW the levels are designed?

Galaxy had mostly linear level design, but some levels were more open ended and rewarded you for exploring. The level with the Piantas in Galaxy 2 actually comes to mind.

There is absolutely no reason why a Galaxy 3 couldn't simply open the game up. Heck, I wouldn't even mind if it was completely open world. I remember when I first saw Galaxy, I actually thought it WAS open world, due to the images of Mario just soaring through space.

And by default, the space setting is just limitless. There is only so much you can do with a tropical setting, but a space setting can incorporate literally anything, as the previous two Galaxy games showed. Any idea you could have for a Sunshine 2 could be incorporated into Galaxy 3, but the reverse is not true. So objectively, Galaxy 3 would be the better option.

That being said, I think the 3D World formula is worth expanding on. So I would rather just have Rosalina get her own franchise (she deserves it more than Wario and Yoshi did when they got theirs) that does a lot of what I would want from a Galaxy 3, and continues expanding upon the gameplay, maybe molding it into something else entirely, while continuing to add even more layers to what is easily one of Nintendo's best characters.
 

Planet Cool

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I agree, Sunshine is incredibly overrated. It's actually quite a bad game, far beneath Nintendo's standard. There's not a whole lot of exploration to do in it, either, since the game doesn't let you pursue any objective but the one you select when you enter each stage, with a small handful of exceptions. Any part of the stage that isn't involved in the "episode" becomes empty space with no purpose (unless you're a masochist and go looking for blue coins). Terrible, terrible game design.

I'm not sure Rosalina deserves her own series more than Yoshi and Wario, though. I think they're more or less on the same level. You know who does deserve his own series (or at least one 3D platformer)? Bowser.
 
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finalark

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I agree, Sunshine is incredibly overrated. It's actually quite a bad game, far beneath Nintendo's standard. There's not a whole lot of exploration to do in it, either, since the game doesn't let you pursue any objective but the one you select when you enter each stage, with a small handful of exceptions. Any part of the stage that isn't involved in the "episode" becomes empty space with no purpose (unless you're a masochist and go looking for blue coins). Terrible, terrible game design.
I think the word you're looking for is different, not terrible.

No, it's not as open ended as Mario 64. Yes, Nintendo went for a more linear game. But because they went for a more linear game this means they were able to make more unique challenges because of it. In damn near every Mario 64 challenge the level remained completely static since you could get the stars in almost any order, making the ability to even pick what start you want to go after kind of pointless when you get down to it.

In Sunshine, levels were radically different depending on what challenges you picked. This means there was an actual purpose to choosing what objective you want to complete and it allowed Nintendo to get more creative with what they could do in each level, especially with the GCN's hardware.

Even though the gaming industry has been beating us over the heads with how much better open worlds are than anything else linear is not a bad word. In the debate between Mario 64 and Sunshine it's apples to oranges.
 

ChikoLad

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I agree, Sunshine is incredibly overrated. It's actually quite a bad game, far beneath Nintendo's standard. There's not a whole lot of exploration to do in it, either, since the game doesn't let you pursue any objective but the one you select when you enter each stage, with a small handful of exceptions. Any part of the stage that isn't involved in the "episode" becomes empty space with no purpose (unless you're a masochist and go looking for blue coins). Terrible, terrible game design.

I'm not sure Rosalina deserves her own series more than Yoshi and Wario, though. I think they're more or less on the same level. You know who does deserve his own series (or at least one 3D platformer)? Bowser.
My main thing with Sunshine was literally all of the optional content was absolutely terrible (who thought it was a good idea to put Mario inside of a pachinko machine?), and the mandatory content ranged from good to bad, but never amazing.

The reason I say Rosalina deserves her own series more is comparing her situation now to when Wario and Yoshi got theirs:

Wario and Yoshi both got their own games and as a result, extended franchises, literally a year after their debut as Mario characters, and only because they had gameplay ideas that they thought Mario wouldn't fit for. Before this, Yoshi was a completely optional power-up, and Wario was the antagonist of one game you barely even saw him in. Nintendo didn't even have a solid idea of how fans around the world received the characters, since the internet did not exist. At the end of the day, the best you could say about them as characters was that Yoshi was cute and marketable because dinosaurs were all the rage in the 90's, and Wario was just le gross farty burly man who could be used for a more combat oriented platformer. And then Yoshi even got into the original Smash Bros as an individual representative of his own franchise.

Compare this to Rosalina, who even when she debuted, was a revolutionary character for the Mario franchise. She wasn't playable, but in terms of the story elements of Super Mario Galaxy, she was pretty much the main character of the game, as most of the story revolved around her and the Lumas. Mario stories usually are nothing but the same song and dance routine, and Mario characters are usually nothing but one-dimensional archetypes when they debut and remain that way in most games. Super Mario Galaxy and Rosalina marked something different in that regard, because instead of the main focus being on Mario saving Peach, it's on Rosalina, the Lumas, and Rosalina's work as a cosmic deity. Rosalina's storybook also popularised a practice in the industry known as "non-intrusive storytelling", something Yoshiaki Koizumi specifically set out to do in order to prove Shigeru Miyamoto wrong, that storytelling has it's place even in a game like Mario.

It's almost been a decade since Rosalina made her debut, and since the "Rosetta" (Rosalina's Japanese name) trademark was registered. Along with just how much of an important character she was in Galaxy, she has now become a recurring character in the main Mario cast, even being playable in a main series installment, is in Smash Bros (after a fair amount of time passed for her to solidify as a popular character, unlike Yoshi and his Smash debut) as the most hyped first party newcomer for the game she debuted in, is pretty much the second face of Mario Kart now, and her Amiibo is one of the most sought after of the lot. Not only this, but she debuted in an age where the internet has become a big part of her lives, so people have been able to express the demand for a Rosalina game and just their overall love for the character and Nintendo can see it. Heck, in the Iwata (may he rest in peace) Asks for 3D World, they outright say that she was included in the game because of her popularity.

So her popularity is easily more apparent and easy to recognise (due to the internet) than Yoshi's and Wario's were when they got their games, without a doubt.

But my justification isn't just her popularity - quite simply, Rosalina has more purposes behind making a game or franchise about her. Wario and Yoshi were (and in Yoshi's case, still is) one dimensional characters when they debuted. Rosalina wasn't, she had a lot of agency, and one of the main reasons she is so popular is because of that, and because of the lore surrounding her. A franchise starring her would naturally be story driven and have a lot of lore, expanding on her character (canonically, she is immortal and centuries old, pretty much god of the Mario-verse...but we know she wasn't always like that, so a game about her could explain this, for example). Wario and Yoshi didn't have backstories that needed expanding on, they were randomly given motivations out of the blue for their games (Wario searching for riches, Yoshi helping the Baby Mario Bros out). Rosalina already has plenty of material to work with, the foundations are there.

As far as powers go, Wario and Yoshi had very simple powers in their debut games, both in the Mario franchise and their own franchises - Wario had brute strength, Yoshi had his digestive system. Rosalina is literally a goddess and Nintendo have pretty much shown they have no problem giving her random new powers in each game (for example, Super Mario Bros: Puzzles & Dragons Edition gave her the Water element and water powers, even though she had never been seen using water based powers before), so there is no limit to what they can do with her. If they wanted to narrow it down, her absolute control over gravity is her most iconic power, so I would suggest making an action-adventure game similar to Gravity Rush on the PS Vita, where she develops these powers from a younger age. Rosalina also has mechanical prowess and is enthusiastic about engineering, so that can factor in, maybe with Star Fox-esque gameplay segments when travelling between worlds, with a customisation element added in, or even just giving her small gadgets to use.

Also Yoshi and Wario are a cute animal mascot character and a tough male character respectively, something Nintendo had plenty of even at the time, so they didn't represent anything that was lacking in the company's franchises. However, giving Rosalina her own franchise where she is the main playable character would add another franchise where the consistent playable protagonist is a female character, something Nintendo SEVERELY lacks (Metroid is the only franchise they have that has one and is still active - and the next game in the series won't even star Samus now, it's going to have seemingly male Galactic Federation troops as the protagonists). And that would undoubtedly be received well since Rosalina is revered in part for how positive a role model she is for women.

Bowser deserves a game too, but I wouldn't say he deserves a franchise. Or rather, he doesn't need one. He's Mario's arch nemesis, so the Mario franchise is half his anyway.
 
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finalark

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The reason I say Rosalina deserves her own series more is comparing her situation now to when Wario and Yoshi got theirs:

Wario and Yoshi both got their own games and as a result, extended franchises, literally a year after their debut as Mario characters, and only because they had gameplay ideas that they thought Mario wouldn't fit for. Before this, Yoshi was a completely optional power-up, and Wario was the antagonist of one game you barely even saw him in. Nintendo didn't even have a solid idea of how fans around the world received the characters, since the internet did not exist. At the end of the day, the best you could say about them as characters was that Yoshi was cute and marketable because dinosaurs were all the rage in the 90's, and Wario was just le gross farty burly man who could be used for a more combat oriented platformer. And then Yoshi even got into the original Smash Bros as an individual representative of his own franchise.
You're forgetting that in the pre-internet days companies gauged interest in characters based on popularity polls and fan mail. Yoshi got his own series because he was the most widely liked Mario character at the time from fans of both the game and the cartoon. There's a reason why he was added to the live action movie at the last minute. He was the Rosalina of his time, only instead of being a gigantic space woman he was an omnivore dinosaur with a sticky tongue.

As for Wario, I have to agree with you there. I'm pretty sure the only reason why he got his own series was because Nintendo wanted to make a more aggressive platformer and Mario just didn't feel right for it.

Compare this to Rosalina, who even when she debuted, was a revolutionary character for the Mario franchise. She wasn't playable, but in terms of the story elements of Super Mario Galaxy, she was pretty much the main character of the game, as most of the story revolved around her and the Lumas. Mario stories usually are nothing but the same song and dance routine, and Mario characters are usually nothing but one-dimensional archetypes when they debut and remain that way in most games. Super Mario Galaxy and Rosalina marked something different in that regard, because instead of the main focus being on Mario saving Peach, it's on Rosalina, the Lumas, and Rosalina's work as a cosmic deity. Rosalina's storybook also popularised a practice in the industry known as "non-intrusive storytelling", something Yoshiaki Koizumi specifically set out to do in order to prove Shigeru Miyamoto wrong, that storytelling has it's place even in a game like Mario.
My main issue with Rosalina's backstory is that it has little to no consequence on the story. Knowing Rosalina's background does nothing to change your interpretations of her actions or the events of the game. For how little it really adds to the narrative, it could have been detailing the past of Captain Toad. Really, all Koizumi did was give her a backstory and then have her reenact a G-rated version of The End of Evengelion.

Not to say I don't see the appeal of Rosalina. She certainly comes off as the most mature and womanly of the recurring female Mario characters. Then again, when your competition is Dumber-Than-A-Sack-Of-Bricks Peach and HIIMDAISY it's not hard to make Rosalina look good.

But my justification isn't just her popularity - quite simply, Rosalina has more purposes behind making a game or franchise about her. Wario and Yoshi were (and in Yoshi's case, still is) one dimensional characters when they debuted. Rosalina wasn't, she had a lot of agency, and one of the main reasons she is so popular is because of that, and because of the lore surrounding her. A franchise starring her would naturally be story driven and have a lot of lore, expanding on her character (canonically, she is immortal and centuries old, pretty much god of the Mario-verse...but we know she wasn't always like that, so a game about her could explain this, for example). Wario and Yoshi didn't have backstories that needed expanding on, they were randomly given motivations out of the blue for their games (Wario searching for riches, Yoshi helping the Baby Mario Bros out). Rosalina already has plenty of material to work with, the foundations are there.

As far as powers go, Wario and Yoshi had very simple powers in their debut games, both in the Mario franchise and their own franchises - Wario had brute strength, Yoshi had his digestive system. Rosalina is literally a goddess and Nintendo have pretty much shown they have no problem giving her random new powers in each game (for example, Super Mario Bros: Puzzles & Dragons Edition gave her the Water element and water powers, even though she had never been seen using water based powers before), so there is no limit to what they can do with her. If they wanted to narrow it down, her absolute control over gravity is her most iconic power, so I would suggest making an action-adventure game similar to Gravity Rush on the PS Vita, where she develops these powers from a younger age. Rosalina also has mechanical prowess and is enthusiastic about engineering, so that can factor in, maybe with Star Fox-esque gameplay segments when travelling between worlds, with a customisation element added in, or even just giving her small gadgets to use.
I feel like the reason why Nintendo is hesitant to give Rosalina her own game is because they know that her very enthusiastic fans would have high expectations and that they really don't know exactly what they could do with the character to make her game play unique. I think you have really good ideas that could work, but I'm afraid that since she's from a platforming series Nintendo would try to make it into a platformer. In which case I could see it being little more than a Galaxy game with her as the protagonist.

Granted, I don't think it would be as story driven as you'd think. As I said, her actual backstory is of little consequence and frankly, if you never found the storybook, she's really not that interesting of a character. And I feel like Nintendo would be hesitant to make a story driven Mario game.

Unless they made her game an RPG, which could be potentially awesome.

I also want to add that I think the reason why her element was water is because she wears blue. And water is blue.
 

ChikoLad

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I haven't seen any proof of Yoshi being popular enough to warrant his own series back in the day, though. And most people into Nintendo at the time seem to feel the same.

Her storybook does have consequence to the story. It explains Rosalina's motivation as well as why the Lumas exist in the first place, and why she is even out in space, and why the Comet Observatory flies by the Mushroom Kingdom every 100 years (to visit the Gateway Planet, which is close to "Earth"). The story of Galaxy doesn't happen unless the events of the storybook do. Even so, having consequence to the story isn't what makes backstory good. It's about making the world of the game feel real, like there is more to this universe than a straightforward plotline revolving around the player character. It also made Rosalina a more realistic character than she already was, and added something emotionally significant to the Lumas.

She's also plenty interesting outside of the storybook. She has an interest in engineering and architecture (elaborated on in the storybook, but you don't need it to find out in the first place), and is evidently talented at it. She uses kart racing as a favourite past time, and likes the big, bad bikes the most. She is a motherly figure to the Lumas. She is basically god of the Marioverse. She writes her own books, has a whole library full of them, and bases them off the things happening in the universe. She has tons of amazing powers. I could go on. Maybe characters like that don't interest you, or maybe you didn't pay attention to the various bits and pieces about her character as they came up, but she's easily one of the best Nintendo characters, and has a ton of agency, and a lot going for her.

And I'm sure Nintendo wouldn't mind giving her something that isn't a platformer. Luigi and Wario have games that aren't. And I'd still be cool with a platformer for her, or at least a game with platforming elements.

And I don't think they just gave her it because of her colour. One of the variations of Rosalina is Water/Light. And they only really colour code with the Yoshis. Regardless, she has water powers now for definite, along with all that she already had. They can just keep expanding on that.
 

Planet Cool

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Well, when I was a kid, Yoshi was certainly my favorite Mario character. Yoshi's Island is still one of my favorite games.

And, it's true that Rosalina's backstory didn't have much to do with the actual plot of Mario Galaxy, but... Did it really need to be? I kind of like it when video games give you just enough information about the NPCs to make them feel like real people, without every bit of info necessarily tying into the main plot. You just feel like your adventure intersects with their lives. Rosalina is like that. The Cucco Lady's brother in Ocarina of Time, a very minor character, is one of my favorite examples.
 

ChikoLad

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I love Yoshi too (I have a sticker of him and Luigi on my laptop. Oh, and DK too), but I am only speaking from an unbiased perspective - Nintendo did push him REALLY prematurely compared to other characters. That's why it bothers me when people say "Rosalina is forced". Not that anyone here has said that.

And like I said, Rosalina's storybook was plot important, as it explains why the events of the game are happening in the way they are. Though I agree it's plot relevancy is besides the point as to why it's important to the experience for players.
 

FunAtParties

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I'd rather have Super Mario Sunshine 2 if I had to chose, but I'd much rather have both if I don't. How perfect would it be for Nintendo to end the Wii U's life cycle with one, and start the NX's with the other?
 
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Reila

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I would prefer something new instead of more of the same. Between the two options, I would prefer Sunshine 2, even though Galaxy is my favorite 3D Mario game.
 

CptJPuff

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Super Mario Sunshine 2 would be hype, though I doubt it'll ever come into existence.
 
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