• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Mario Social Thread

KoopaTroopa895

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 24, 2012
Messages
138
These boards are ghost town city. I watched a few of HugS breakdowns of his matches, and kind of stole some of his mentality/ thought process and spacing when using Samus Ftilt and Fsmash as it seemed to fit those options for Mario just as well.

Also, I've been opening people up with WD Utilt during DD. It's pretty neat and can get some cool stuff started.
I have a personal hard time incorporating f-tilt. WD f-tiltis a spacing im not very comfortable with yet, but I think it'll be good once I can consistently make sure to hit with the toe.
 

GeZ

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
1,763
Location
The Speed Force
I have a personal hard time incorporating f-tilt. WD f-tiltis a spacing im not very comfortable with yet, but I think it'll be good once I can consistently make sure to hit with the toe.
I don't think the spacing has to be so precise? I've done fine work with it just getting his foot to hit. I'm actually going to be testing a thing over the next few days. If it works like I think it will I'll throw it here.
 
Joined
Mar 12, 2014
Messages
98
Location
Manitoba, Canada
Alright i'm back with the results, went 3-3 in pools qualifying for pro bracket then got ripped apart. I had a good chance of going 5-1 in pools but I dropped the ball.

Here's my incredible bracket run: http://manitoba.challonge.com/WM7MSP

Unfortunately the streaming software was messing up so my sick E-sports handshake wasn't recorded :(
 
Last edited:

GeZ

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
1,763
Location
The Speed Force
Alright i'm back with the results, went 3-3 in pools qualifying for pro bracket then got ripped apart. I had a good chance of going 5-1 in pools but I dropped the ball.

Here's my incredible bracket run: http://manitoba.challonge.com/WM7MSP

Unfortunately the streaming software was messing up so my sick E-sports handshake wasn't recorded :(
Good **** dude. Link vids?
 

GeZ

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
1,763
Location
The Speed Force
Something I wrote up somewhere else, but feel could benefit players here:

I'd just like to throw out that I've had a few conversations with a really knowledgeable player on incorporating dominant elements of certain characters, into other characters gameplay.

I was reminded of it by reading a snippet on smashboards from DR.PP, talking about his working dashdancing into Falco's game. To grossly paraphrase, he says that a lot of players will just cut sub optimal parts of characters game, out, which is to say, Falcos wouldn't DD because Falco's DD is relatively poor.

DR.PP used DD with Falco by acknowledging that on its own, it wasn't that good, and looking for a way to augment it with another part of Falco's game. So now he incorporates DD, at very specific distances, while also keeping laser relevant. Bam. Falco meta has DD now.

What I'm trying to say with all of this, is players need to do this more. Look to other characters fortes, hell, look to other players fortes, and incorporate. Samus as a character spaces with lots of micropositioned Ftilts and Jabs, but HugS specifically does so out of shield, as well as to bait spacing based reactions.

So from watching lots of Samus matches I've started micropositioning more with Mario's Ftilt's and Jabs. From watching lots of HugS matches, I've started using WD OoS > Ftilt to zone, as a way to move out of high pressure situations and establish a toe hold with which I can push advantage in the neutral.

I'm doing all this with Mario. In this case his tools are similar enough for it to translate mostly intact, but that won't always be the case, but players have to try this stuff. See if you can fit this part of this characters game, or that part of that players game, into your character, and your thought processes, and your style. It'll let you build upon your character and your mentality and play, while watching a match between two characters you don't play, and two players you don't play like.
 

KoopaTroopa895

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 24, 2012
Messages
138
Something I wrote up somewhere else, but feel could benefit players here:

I'd just like to throw out that I've had a few conversations with a really knowledgeable player on incorporating dominant elements of certain characters, into other characters gameplay.

I was reminded of it by reading a snippet on smashboards from DR.PP, talking about his working dashdancing into Falco's game. To grossly paraphrase, he says that a lot of players will just cut sub optimal parts of characters game, out, which is to say, Falcos wouldn't DD because Falco's DD is relatively poor.

DR.PP used DD with Falco by acknowledging that on its own, it wasn't that good, and looking for a way to augment it with another part of Falco's game. So now he incorporates DD, at very specific distances, while also keeping laser relevant. Bam. Falco meta has DD now.

What I'm trying to say with all of this, is players need to do this more. Look to other characters fortes, hell, look to other players fortes, and incorporate. Samus as a character spaces with lots of micropositioned Ftilts and Jabs, but HugS specifically does so out of shield, as well as to bait spacing based reactions.

So from watching lots of Samus matches I've started micropositioning more with Mario's Ftilt's and Jabs. From watching lots of HugS matches, I've started using WD OoS > Ftilt to zone, as a way to move out of high pressure situations and establish a toe hold with which I can push advantage in the neutral.

I'm doing all this with Mario. In this case his tools are similar enough for it to translate mostly intact, but that won't always be the case, but players have to try this stuff. See if you can fit this part of this characters game, or that part of that players game, into your character, and your thought processes, and your style. It'll let you build upon your character and your mentality and play, while watching a match between two characters you don't play, and two players you don't play like.
Copying top players is indeed really good. Although I can't say PP is the whole reason falco has dash dancing now. PP's hella good though lmao
 

KingDozie

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 19, 2014
Messages
456
Forward the falco player was really good with DD, he would DD on the pokeball or the lines outside the pokeball back and forth to do diffrent DD ranges.
 
Last edited:

GeZ

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
1,763
Location
The Speed Force
Did super well at my locals tonight, I definitely feel like I'm improving. I'm actually getting familiar enough with the Marth MU to be able to bop scrubby Marth's, so now I just need to be able to keep up against Marth's at or slightly below my skill level.

I did get a Marth player to throw his controller and leave the local though, so progress? Felt kinda bad about it, but I was kinda hype that I made someone get salty when playing my worst MU.

Also, earlier in the week I had set a goal to be able to beat a player at my locals, and I went even with him today, so I'm super hype. ****in SoCal, here I come.

Edit: I also got a chain grab from 0~40% on a Marth, but later in the night a different Marth Fair'd out of it. I'm not sure if the Fair out worked because I had bad timing, because the 0~40% was pretty convincing when I did it. Do any knowledgeable Mario mains have data?
 
Last edited:

schmooblidon

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 18, 2014
Messages
496
Did super well at my locals tonight, I definitely feel like I'm improving. I'm actually getting familiar enough with the Marth MU to be able to bop scrubby Marth's, so now I just need to be able to keep up against Marth's at or slightly below my skill level.

I did get a Marth player to throw his controller and leave the local though, so progress? Felt kinda bad about it, but I was kinda hype that I made someone get salty when playing my worst MU.

Also, earlier in the week I had set a goal to be able to beat a player at my locals, and I went even with him today, so I'm super hype. ****in SoCal, here I come.

Edit: I also got a chain grab from 0~40% on a Marth, but later in the night a different Marth Fair'd out of it. I'm not sure if the Fair out worked because I had bad timing, because the 0~40% was pretty convincing when I did it. Do any knowledgeable Mario mains have data?
There is no guaranteed chaingrab on marth. They can always doublejump out. You could probably get 1 if they tried to fair at <10%
 

KoopaTroopa895

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 24, 2012
Messages
138
I mean we at least have the sheik chaingrab so its something I suppose. Also our marth followups aren't terrible at least either. At early percents you can Dair Up smash, or auto cancel upair. Maybe uptilt if they don't DI? Mid percents is something worth discussing actually because I don't know the most practical thing to do there. I think like 40-50% you may be able to get d-throw double upair, upair - nair? Gotta look out for them landing on the platform almost no matter the percent. Been a while since i've tested grab followups on marth (it's been a lot of sheik spacies falcon pach and puff lately). Might try doing that again sometime too see what I get.
 

GeZ

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
1,763
Location
The Speed Force
The Sheik chaingrab is funny and legit. Haven't heard of Dair > Usmash, but it sounds sick. Is it short hop dair? I find that Uair > Uair is good at mid percents because it's more likely to put Marth on platforms where you can cover options better, or keep him in the air, which makes Marth pretty desperate.
 

KoopaTroopa895

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 24, 2012
Messages
138
The Sheik chaingrab is funny and legit. Haven't heard of Dair > Usmash, but it sounds sick. Is it short hop dair? I find that Uair > Uair is good at mid percents because it's more likely to put Marth on platforms where you can cover options better, or keep him in the air, which makes Marth pretty desperate.
oh no i meant them as two separate options, like d-throw>dair or d-throw> up-smash. Maybe if the marth DI's in some extraordinary way that lets dair upsmash happen but I don't think its a thing under normal circumstances. Dair>uptilt is probably better for combos though.

Sheik's chaingrab is so amazing. I don't know the exact percent for how long the CG lasts. But D-throw to f-smash or up- smash works till like 150% and kills almost no matter the stage. It's one of this biggest plus's about this awful matchup.
 

GeZ

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
1,763
Location
The Speed Force
oh no i meant them as two separate options, like d-throw>dair or d-throw> up-smash. Maybe if the marth DI's in some extraordinary way that lets dair upsmash happen but I don't think its a thing under normal circumstances. Dair>uptilt is probably better for combos though.

Sheik's chaingrab is so amazing. I don't know the exact percent for how long the CG lasts. But D-throw to f-smash or up- smash works till like 150% and kills almost no matter the stage. It's one of this biggest plus's about this awful matchup.
I don't have a copy of Melee currently, though I practice with people around town pretty much every other day, would Dthrow > Dair, be better with a full hop Dair? And if that worked, couldn't you get in an Uair after the Dair and convert out of that?
 

KoopaTroopa895

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 24, 2012
Messages
138
I don't have a copy of Melee currently, though I practice with people around town pretty much every other day, would Dthrow > Dair, be better with a full hop Dair? And if that worked, couldn't you get in an Uair after the Dair and convert out of that?
oh yeah you def full hop dair. I should have clarified. Um yes but the up-air but its DI dependent, so just be on the lookout for it, its not guranteed if they di out of dair and double jump immediately.

EDIT: it may be guaranteed at certain percents and double jumping the upair might be necessary if they escape. IDK though i'll have to test it.
 
Last edited:

GeZ

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
1,763
Location
The Speed Force
oh yeah you def full hop dair. I should have clarified. Um yes but the up-air but its DI dependent, so just be on the lookout for it, its not guranteed if they di out of dair and double jump immediately.

EDIT: it may be guaranteed at certain percents and double jumping the upair might be necessary if they escape. IDK though i'll have to test it.
Thanks Koopa. You're pretty based.
 

Britex

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 18, 2011
Messages
106
Location
Quebec, Sherbrooke
I really like the reverse bair (forward if you prefer) during chaingrabs. Instead of going for another grab or up-air, you go for a reverse bair. It sends them (fox/falco) farther offstage if you are near the ledge, and if not near the ledge the knockback will typically position them right in front of you. If they miss the tech it's a free jab reset into f-smash/grab. Sometimes they might be out of range of the jab when missing the tech. In that case you can opt for a fireball reset.
 

a rookie

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 10, 2009
Messages
613
Location
Long Beach, Ca
Best thing against Marth at low %'s from like 0-10% is upsmash since it's the only solid move you can get out w/ the most %. If you do grab Marth at 0% and he doesn't DI, you can dair(like Koopa said) into falling upair(the dair to falling up air combos if you're fast enough w/ the timing) into uptilt(this doesn't combo, but if they're not ready for it, it'll work) or upsmash for great % and a decent follow up:

dthrow to dair to falling upair to uptilt = 37% [the finishing uptilt has the juggling property, so you could possible follow up depending on DI)
dthrow to dair to falling upair to upsmash = 44%

But once they hit 26%(this is regardless of staled to hell uptilt or not), he will go into tumble animation after you dthrow uptilt them, to follow up into upair for a true 25%(less if staled uptilt/up air) combo. If the Marth does not DI or holds in, you cannot follow up to extend a true combo, but you can still follow up w/ up air blind if they're slow w/ a double jump escape after your true combo to extend it further. Sorry if this is confusing at all.

But all in all, if you Marth happened to be at 26% when you grab him:

dthrow to upsmash = 21%
dthrow to uptilt to upair = 25%

These are both unstaled to give a fair comparison. 4% is a huge difference, plus you'd have to read him coming down after the upsmash. Up air imo, is a better follow up since it keeps Marth close and if you catch him slipping/off-guard, you get more up airs into more true combos/damage. But if you want solid % and don't feel confident in your follow ups at that moment, then go for the dthrow upsmash combo.
 

GeZ

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
1,763
Location
The Speed Force
With good DI does Marth escape combos after only a few hits? He seems pretty comboable, from the matches I've watched of you, n0ne, and Koopa.
 

a rookie

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 10, 2009
Messages
613
Location
Long Beach, Ca
With good DI does Marth escape combos after only a few hits? He seems pretty comboable, from the matches I've watched of you, n0ne, and Koopa.
DI away at low %'s don't really impact our combos since our up airs are so weak w/ little knockback. But after 2 up airs, they'll be too far to combo. But no one really combo DI's that effectively nowadays. So make sure to adjust if they do DI correctly.
 

GeZ

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
1,763
Location
The Speed Force
That makes sense, alright. Does Mario's up B have any invulnerability? And what's the best way to edgeguard Mario? I have a friend who's just getting into the game, who's pretty frustrated about Mario's recovery, so I want to give him pointers.
 

a rookie

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 10, 2009
Messages
613
Location
Long Beach, Ca
That makes sense, alright. Does Mario's up B have any invulnerability? And what's the best way to edgeguard Mario? I have a friend who's just getting into the game, who's pretty frustrated about Mario's recovery, so I want to give him pointers.
Mario's up b does have invincibility frames, not sure how much? Maybe 3? Best way to edge guard Mario is another question since we have enough options to actually make a decent recovery mix up. So make him learn it, lol. All Mario's have different recovery options. But the best way is to try to refresh invincibility and force Mario on the stage and punish him that way or invincible bair or something to stuff his up b if you can. There's no clear way to edge guard him 100%.
 

GeZ

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
1,763
Location
The Speed Force
Mario's up b does have invincibility frames, not sure how much? Maybe 3? Best way to edge guard Mario is another question since we have enough options to actually make a decent recovery mix up. So make him learn it, lol. All Mario's have different recovery options. But the best way is to try to refresh invincibility and force Mario on the stage and punish him that way or invincible bair or something to stuff his up b if you can. There's no clear way to edge guard him 100%.
Yeah, that's about what I thought. Early up B is pretty stronk, and I like using that, but definitely risky, just cause up B landing lag is a bit sluggish.
 

GeZ

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
1,763
Location
The Speed Force
LOL, go for it. It's hilarious when you up b early and they punish the sh** out of you. Feel like a pathetic level 1 Magikarp
It's true though. Landing and having a strong character charging a fatty smash in your face is straight up terrifying.
 

Mejonat

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 21, 2015
Messages
8
Heyooo, new Mario main. Been playing Mario since I started playing the game as a kid, and now I wanna get competitive with him. I considered using a higher tier character, but I figured If I'm losing, I can always just get better instead of placing better based on my character alone. That's until I get to top level anyway, which (lololol) ain't happening.
I just came back from my second tournament yesterday, and it was kind of discouraging, because I really tried hard to study matchups and stuff and I practiced every day on netplay for like a month, and I practiced my movement on my own and stuff. But I didn't place too much better than I did at the first tourney (it's a monthly) and this time I got bopped by another Mario in losers bracket. Bleh.

So if I'm watching videos, doing netplay, practicing movement and stuff, does that stuff work? I wanna reach another level, and I think playing Mario is less about tech skill (because there isn't much) and more about how I think about the game or how I see it. I just don't know what that special way of seeing it is. :p maybe it just comes with time.

Do y'all have a method that you use while you're studying to increase efficiency? Or do you all just let yourselves improve at your natural pace?
 
Last edited:

KenMeister

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 9, 2014
Messages
1,122
NNID
KenMeister
3DS FC
3609-1224-8364
Sup' guys. I'm a big low tier fan (even though I main Sheik), and since I main Mario in Smash 4, I'm looking into labbing up a Mario in Melee to show off or disrespect people at friendlies, and so far, handling Mario, at least for me, is a bit easier to manage than Doc. Any general approach strats and bread and butter things I should know?
 
Last edited:

Sp1nda

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 9, 2015
Messages
107
Location
Ohio
Slippi.gg
*****#69
Sup' guys. I'm a big low tier fan (even though I main Sheik), and since I main Mario in Smash 4, I'm looking into labbing up a Mario in Melee to show off or disrespect people at friendlies, and so far, handling Mario, at least for me, is a bit easier to manage than Doc. Any general approach strats and bread and butter things I should know?
Jab into D-smash, D-throw into D-smash (Works at most percents)
Edgeguarding is amazing with the Cape and with B-air
 

schmooblidon

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 18, 2014
Messages
496
did u guys know that doc and mario can angle their up-bs higher than upward/no angle? cos i ****in didnt.

made a detailed post bout it here http://ikneedata.com

also, you can walljump from it
 

KoopaTroopa895

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 24, 2012
Messages
138
did u guys know that doc and mario can angle their up-bs higher than upward/no angle? cos i ****in didnt.

made a detailed post bout it here http://ikneedata.com

also, you can walljump from it
This is sick, nice to see a comparison of the two as well. What does the walljump implication mean though? Is there a different setup in mind by going vertically higher?
 

schmooblidon

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 18, 2014
Messages
496
No I just thought I'd make sure it was possible.

Also I should mention that the inputs I said in that aren't super accurate. I'm still trying to figure out how it decides on an angle, but in terms of what you press it doesn't matter about the little detials.

Anyway, when I say Mario decides his angle on frame 6, then the direction on frame 7, you don't actually have to hit back on frame 6. You can hit back for at least 1 frame anywhere between frame 2 and 6, you just have to be in neutral on frame 7. This makes it suuuper easy for mario.

The bit im not sure about, is like if you hit forward then back then forward in that window and stuff like that. But like if you hit diagonal up-back then full back, full back will definitely take priority.
 

KoopaTroopa895

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 24, 2012
Messages
138
No I just thought I'd make sure it was possible.

Also I should mention that the inputs I said in that aren't super accurate. I'm still trying to figure out how it decides on an angle, but in terms of what you press it doesn't matter about the little detials.

Anyway, when I say Mario decides his angle on frame 6, then the direction on frame 7, you don't actually have to hit back on frame 6. You can hit back for at least 1 frame anywhere between frame 2 and 6, you just have to be in neutral on frame 7. This makes it suuuper easy for mario.

The bit im not sure about, is like if you hit forward then back then forward in that window and stuff like that. But like if you hit diagonal up-back then full back, full back will definitely take priority.
I just assumed the last input before he takes off would have full priority (or input before you return to neutral on frame 7). If it produces anything weird that'd be cool. Either way that window is piss easy so ima practice that and try and incorporate it into my game. It's the little things that can count after all.
 

KoopaTroopa895

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 24, 2012
Messages
138
No I just thought I'd make sure it was possible.

Also I should mention that the inputs I said in that aren't super accurate. I'm still trying to figure out how it decides on an angle, but in terms of what you press it doesn't matter about the little detials.

Anyway, when I say Mario decides his angle on frame 6, then the direction on frame 7, you don't actually have to hit back on frame 6. You can hit back for at least 1 frame anywhere between frame 2 and 6, you just have to be in neutral on frame 7. This makes it suuuper easy for mario.

The bit im not sure about, is like if you hit forward then back then forward in that window and stuff like that. But like if you hit diagonal up-back then full back, full back will definitely take priority.
Okay so yesterday I accidentally did a reverse extended up B. I tried to recreate it for like 10 minutes on purpose and I have no idea how I did it. It was kind of an accident because I was showing somebody how extended up b worked while pausing the game to show when the angle gets decided like you mention here. I wanted to mention to ask if you had found out anything new since you posted it here Also on that note, I am constantly getting battle fielded with extended up b and I was wondering if that happened to you at all? It happens mostly when i do a back notch and go straight vertically up but then I don't land on stage. I just fall to my death a lot on battlefield because of it.

Also I think extended up b is good, ground wise I think its great out of shield since now I pick and choose the angle I fly at to anti air opponents. Theorycraft wise I think it'd be cool if you could do one up b angle to sweetspot the ledge and one up b angle to land on the stage. I don't know if the angles are horizontal enough to get that but I'll post back if I find any. Lastly the other up b angle idea I had is where one sweetspots and the extended up b is used to hug the ledge and wall jump if they roll up. Although with the practicality of walljumping consistently out of up b still being ass I don't plan on looking into it a whole whole lot.
 
Last edited:

Britex

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 18, 2011
Messages
106
Location
Quebec, Sherbrooke
Just won a tournament in my town. Might be going to a much bigger one in novemberl; my goal is to place top 32 or higher.
 
Top Bottom