Guide Mario matchup thread

[miniada]

The current matchup thread for mario is VERY OUTDATED and not being updated,so I started a poll to see if people want a new thread and they did. so I decided to make the new matchup thread myself we will start discusion on Sunday at 12:am for those who are awake at that time. here is a quick look at the discussions.
Level 1: NO I WAS MOMS FAVORITE:(40:60)*(patch 1.10 score we will re discuss him)(50:50)
level 2: beautys and the beasts:(50:50) for now(45:55) for now(55:45) for now(55:45) for now
level 3: some old friends and enemy's:(45:55)for now(55:45) for now(50:50) for now(55:45) for now
level 4: the chosen ones of the triforce:(50:50) for now(55:45)(45:55)(50:50) for now(55:45)
level 5: NO RIDLEY FOR YOU:(65:35)(45:55) for now
level 6: the cute the ugly and the mysterious:(60:40)(65:35) for now(40:60)
level 7 guardains of the galaxy. .... (sounds familiar) (50:50)(50:50) for now
level 8: gotta catch them all:(50:50)(55:45)(60:40) for now(60:40) for now(60:40)(50:50) for now
level 9: mothers boys: (45:55)(55:45)
level 10: solo boys: (55:45)(45:55)(55:45 for now)(55:45 for now)(60:40)(60:40)(55:45 for now)(55:45 for now)(45:55 fornow)
level 11: NO CHROM FOR YOU:(45:55)(55:45)(55:45)(65:35)(50:50)
level 12: the light and the dark: / (40:60)(55:45)
level 13: WHO BROUGHT YOU GUYS HERE:(50:50)(60:40)(60:40)(50:50)
level 14: what are those:(50:50)(60:40)(55:45)
each charecter will have one week of discussion. see you on Sunday. feel free to comment down below if you like
EDIT: we won't discuss the ditto. This is obviously 50:50

For those who arecurrently awake DISCUSS

+ 100:0,90:10 mario stomps them faster than goombas.
+75:25,70:30 huge advantage for mario
+65:35,60:40 mario solidly wins.
+55:45 pretty close but Mario's options are more effective.
50:50/55:45 falls between even and slightly in our favor.
50:50 even MU both characters have effective options to counter each other.
-0:100,10:90 game over.
-25:75,30:70 a potentially unwinnable mu.
-35:65,40:60 marios options arnt very effective here.
-45:55 mario slighty loses.
50:50/45:55 between even and the others favor.[/SPOILER][/table]

 

[Xeze]

As stated in the other MU thread, Luigi is arguably Mario's worst matchup. I've been trying to convince myself that it was a close 45:55 in Luigi's favor but no. Recent results, mainly from Ally, plus general knowledge show that Luigi beats Mario solidly. Like while we have to struggle to get damage, yet alone get a kill, Luigi can just get a couple of hits in and then use one of his kill confirms. It's so frustrating. Luigi's only disadvantaged state is offstage.

40:60 . If Luigi's disadvantaged state offstage/on the ledge wouldn't be so bad, it would be 35:65 easily. Unless you like to fight tight uphill battles, I'd suggest having a sub-main ready for Weegee.

Against Doc is mostly even. Mario has better mobility and combo game, Doc has better kill power and damage output. Edgeguarding game is almost even too, maybe Doc wins with his tornado. But the latter has worse recovery.

50:50

 

[miniada]

I'll give some input as well
60:40 his options are all better than Mario's except for mobility and offstage
50:50/55:45 even (if not marios favor) marios options are generally better than doc he has an advantage camping him and if he gets in close range that could be a problem for doc however doc
has better damage output and kill power

 

[Underhill]

vs: 60:40 in Luigi's favor and if I have to say, this will be Mario's worst MU since Luigi's combo game is better, kos are better, has a n-air to limit Mario's combos, better air game(dispute horrible air speed), and a better grab game. 65/35 for Luigi even more at best and if you're struggling against a good Luigi player, you'll better off switching into different character or Doc Mario may have better mobility, a better off-stage game, and better approaches, but Luigi's options are stronger though. I don't think "gimping" Luigi will be that simple; Of course he has the cape, the Fludd, n-air, and b-air, but Luigi can mix-ups and if the player master the tornado without having to use his Double jump, then it won't be easy since he can recover low.

vs: Even for both of them. Mario has better combos, more mobility, better recovery, and rushdown-playstyle while Doc has better kill options, damage output, edgeguarding(thanks to the tornado to add with it), better Oos options, and Patient game.

 

[miniada]

Also I don't think luigi is marios worst did you guys forget who marth is no offense but just saying

 

[Underhill]

Also I don't think luigi is marios worst did you guys forget who marth is no offense but just saying

I don't think Marth is that bad. Even or 55/45 slighty in Marth's favor. Marth's landing options aren't good outside of counter and d-air which can easily be baited, read, and punished; So you want him on top of you. Use fireballs for stage control and approach, safely. Marth's range can be a threat to Mario for out-spacing, out-ranging, edgeguarding, and in the air as well, but once you power-shield and he mispaced, then you do well on close combat. Counter can be a threat off-stage for Mario's up-b. Use Fludd for spacing if he whiffs out a move and for putting him in a bad position.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Doc has the advantage vs Mario imo.

They break each others combos easily, but Doc is rewarded more for walling, has Jab cancel Up-B for KO confirms, and his D-air is actually able to edgeguard Mario's Up-B and gimp him. The frame buff to Doc's U-smash also makes it a better anti-air than Mario's too.

Mostly it's a really boring matchup dominated by who spaces better, but Doc is rewarded more for the spacing war especially since he has more ways to end the stock aside from just simply fishing for reverse U-smash.

 

[miniada]

Doc has the advantage vs Mario imo.

They break each others combos easily, but Doc is rewarded more for walling, has Jab cancel Up-B for KO confirms, and his D-air is actually able to edgeguard Mario's Up-B and gimp him. The frame buff to Doc's U-smash also makes it a better anti-air than Mario's too.

Mostly it's a really boring matchup dominated by who spaces better, but Doc is rewarded more for the spacing war especially since he has more ways to end the stock aside from just simply fishing for reverse U-smash.

Suprised you think Doc wins in a similar thread you said mario slighty beats doc

 

[A2ZOMG]

Suprised you think Doc wins in a similar thread you said mario slighty beats doc

Opinions changed over time. Tech has been developed for Doc.

 

[miniada]

Opinions changed over time. Tech has been developed for Doc.

I see also thanks for the Duck Hunt advice it really helped me out

 

[Xeze]

Opinions changed over time. Tech has been developed for Doc.

Which makes me wonder, is there anything left to develop for Mario? Or is it Melee all over again where Mario eventually falls behind because other characters can develop techniques while Mario remains bland?

 

[miniada]

Does anyone know how to make a chart with different column and add different ratios for charecters i think it would useful for this

 

[tibs7]

Marios recovery makes the mu slightly in his favour. combo game is a little better + range but its really whoever can neutral the other.
But yeah like i said, recovery is a huge issue but not for mario so 55:45 Mario.

 

[ShadowKing]

vs:59.59 and 59.50 Luigis favor because he can cause tons of damage in a short amount of time but the reason Mario is 9points away because he's down trow-a fee uptilts-up smash can give you up to 34-45 damage.
vs:60 and 59.50 Yes Dr Mario does have a second recovery and have strong hits but being heavy and slow Mario has a easier time comboing him.That's my thoughts on the matchup

 

[miniada]

vs:59.59 and 59.50 Luigis favor because he can cause tons of damage in a short amount of time but the reason Mario is 9points away because he's down trow-a fee uptilts-up smash can give you up to 34-45 damage.
vs:60 and 59.50 Yes Dr Mario does have a second recovery and have strong hits but being heavy and slow Mario has a easier time comboing him.That's my thoughts on the matchup

Can you use more traditional ratios like 50:50 and 55 : 45 more people seem to understand those

 

[ShadowKing]

Can you use more traditional ratios like 50:50 and 55 : 45 more people seem to understand those

No thanks I'm sorry but these is the only way I put the matchup

 

[miniada]

No thanks I'm sorry but these is the only way I put the matchup

Well that's ok I think you are saying loses to and Slighty beats

 

[ShadowKing]

Well that's ok I think you are saying loses to and Slighty beats

Exactly

 

[miniada]

Exactly

Ok thanks for your input

 

[SirPulse]

i have a good amount of exp. against a decent luigi. overall i wouldnt definitely say luigi has thee upper hand in neutral, and in landing the ko. mario has the tools to put luigi in places he doesnt want to be, and keep him there for extended periods of time. riding out your momentum is key to victory against luigi.

main tools as mario are:
jab: fairly certain both characters have the same frame jab, and both are easily interrupted if you try to jab cancel.
back air: its probably the only move in marios arsenal in which luigi cannot punish, for the most part.
upsmash: beats all of luigis options when hes coming down, though his downb can catch you if you arent prepared.
nair: much like the ditto, nair is extremely solid in many aspects of the matchup, working as a gtfo of me attack or a great pressure tool.

when using up tilts or up airs at low percents, more often then not its better to go for just 1 hit, then bait out an aerial from luigi, since nair comes out so fast, you can shield it and reset the juggle. same goes for landing an upsmash at low percents, and maybe even back air strings. getting combos on luigi requires precision and some basic reads, where as luigi has plenty of guaranteed combos.

if luigi doesnt release his second aerial out of downthrow quick enough, mario can upb combo break. remember luigi has alot of lag out of back air if he doesnt land with it, so if you air dodge one, chances are you can punish with an up air or an upb if you have no jump and the positioning calls for it.

in the neutral, dont try to contest luigi in a position that might get you grabbed, or play into any of his fireball shenanigans (ahem cape). if you do get hit by a fireball and goes for the dash grab, you can try jab or upb, it can catch him if he isnt close enough. fludd is actually quite useful in this matchup, since luigi slides so much. if you have a full fludd and luigi isnt center stage, you can push him off stage with it and get free stage control, a position mario excels at.

both characters grounded, and in neutral: luigi has thee advantage 55:45, maybe more but saying 60:40 feels like a bit much. luigis greatest advantage in the matchup is the dthrow to downb. with rage, it can kill pre 100. last stock last hit is where you need to give luigi alot of respect, and play around grab because your stock depends on it. this is where luigi tends to 'dominate' the matchup because of how easy it is for him to get a kill. if it does connect, keep in mind to DI horizontially out of the last hit. besides that luigi can still kill really early with upsmash, covering a much wider area then marios, and dthrow back air near the ledge, witch i think can be airdodged or maybe even upb'd. luigis bthrow is also stronger then marios, so again, be sure to avoid the grab.

mario has the advantage most when luigi is offstage. getting luigi in the air or into a recovery position is where you want him. mario is quick enough to keep up with luigis airspeed, and can interrupt his landing with upsmash and bair fairly easy. one thing to keep in mind though is luigi tornado. alot of luigi mains tend to keep it in the back pocket til they need a free trip back to the stage, as it comes out surprisingly fast and has alot of priority. however, as long as you commit that option to memory, it should be easy to react to come time. for me up smash never seems to come out fast enough to beat it, so i just shield it and can punish with pretty much whatever i want.

 

[The Master of Mario]

Mario has a better 0-40 percent Combo On luigi Grab->Fthrow->One Dash Animation->Punch->Punch->Cancelled-Hyphen-Up-smash->Up-Smash

Also Mario has Foxtrot Press Left Then Right Then Left with proper Timing to Foxtrot Left this can be used to chase luigi even though he slides. Mario can do Fastfalled into the ground D-air Combos at high percents. Grounded D-air->(Cape -> SH-N-air)or(F-tilt->Foxtrot B-air or FoxTrot F-smash or Hyphen U-smash->D-air Juggle where you hit luigi with Mario's feet from above his buttons)or->

Low percents 0-34%(Grab->Ftilt) grab combos

40-50-KO D-air combos and D-air Juggling

Grounded D-air->(Cape -> SH-N-air)or(F-tilt->Foxtrot B-air or FoxTrot F-smash or Hyphen U-smash->D-air Juggle

Mario has some approaches against Luigi

SH Cape->U-air which has more horizontal range than N-air Any Percent(can lead into shield stun combos)
Full Jump Fastfall Fireballs->Foxtrot Perfect Pivot Grab Any Percent
SH first frame Air dodge->U-air/Up-special for smashes for smashes(can lead into shield stun combos) High Damage
Foxtrot Tipper Punch->First Frame U-air High Damage

Shield Stun SH D-air->N-air->F-tilt/Cape

Cape Gliding Outranges Luigi as does Dash cancelled F-smash but shield grab/Grab punishes those. You could perfect pivot grab as an approach though but his fireball could interrupt your motion. You could outrange luigi with Dash cancelled F-smash and Cape Gliding but it is easy to punish if you attack him on the ground so you have to be more careful. Cape/F-tilt has really strong shield stun so if you can get his shield low in can be used to get a smash off. So I guess your tactic would be to keep pressuring his shield Caping his fireballs and with Jab->SH Dash cancel First frame D-air-> first frame N-air->( land in fornt do Foxtrot->Reverse F-tilt->(Hopefully nor necessary)Cape/F-tilt)

You can get three capes and a f-smash if you time it right on shield break.

Punches Cape and Ftilt N-air stop his Projectile.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saMMhe4oGKc

Full Jump FF Retreating->Aproaching Fireballs->Foxtrot Perfect Pivot Grab are probably your best option.

 

[miniada]

Mario has a better 0-40 percent Combo On luigi Grab->Fthrow->Foxtrot->Punch->Punch->Cancelled-Hyphen-Up-smash->Up-Smash

Can luigi break out with nair

 

[The Master of Mario]

Can luigi break out with nair

Punch>N-air
U-smash>N-air

Also At ~10-20% less strict than the first which requires 0%. Perfect Pivot Grab is important here for his other combos on luigi which is Dash Momentum(You need the speed of the dash for aerial movement) B-air->Perfect Pivot Grab(A pivot grab where your facing the same direction)->D-throw->F-tilt->Attack Luigi will land on the ground in range of F-smash. I think Perfect Pivot->Pummel->Pummel->B-throw is Gareenteed. 40%

D-throw->Up-angled-Ftilt is a combo starting from <34-36% depending on DI on D-throw
D-throw->Regular F-tilt is a combo only up to ~28%

If you have Fast Fireballs you can

D-throw->F-tilt->SHFastFireball can be reversed->(Shocking Cape/U-air/N-air/(B-air from higher ground))

 

[YerroBryBry]

Under first impression I believe that doctor Mario vs Luigi match up goes around 55:45 in favour to luigi.

Generally speaking, the advantage that luigi has over Mario is that luigi has better frame data. Luigi's jab is very crucial in his neutral gameplay because it comes out fast, has a good hitbox as well as a fast cool down between each hit, allowing you to converge into grabs. Furthermore, Luigi's Nair sends the opponent upwards, and considering that Dr Mario has less air mobility than Mario, he's more vulnerable into being smacked in the face by Luigi's up smash (when Dr Mario is trying to get back on the ground).

On the other hand, I am not too sure about this, but I think Dr Mario is heavier than Mario, so it would mean luigi might have a slightly harder time killing him, if he DIs well. This advantage is then amplified by Dr Mario's options to kill, because rage effect. Dr Mario's pills do a decent job zoning Luigi out with fireballs, to an extent where luigi doesnt perfect shield these.

Overall, I believe that if luigi plays this match up carefully and patiently, luigi would have the slight advantage simply because of his insane frame data. This is only first impressions; I will look more deeply into this!

 

[miniada]

Under first impression I believe that doctor Mario vs Luigi match up goes around 55:45 in favour to luigi.

Generally speaking, the advantage that luigi has over Mario is that luigi has better frame data. Luigi's jab is very crucial in his neutral gameplay because it comes out fast, has a good hitbox as well as a fast cool down between each hit, allowing you to converge into grabs. Furthermore, Luigi's Nair sends the opponent upwards, and considering that Dr Mario has less air mobility than Mario, he's more vulnerable into being smacked in the face by Luigi's up smash (when Dr Mario is trying to get back on the ground).

On the other hand, I am not too sure about this, but I think Dr Mario is heavier than Mario, so it would mean luigi might have a slightly harder time killing him, if he DIs well. This advantage is then amplified by Dr Mario's options to kill, because rage effect. Dr Mario's pills do a decent job zoning Luigi out with fireballs, to an extent where luigi doesnt perfect shield these.

Overall, I believe that if luigi plays this match up carefully and patiently, luigi would have the slight advantage simply because of his insane frame data. This is only first impressions; I will look more deeply into this!

We aren't talking about luigi vs both doc and Mario were talking about mario vs luigi and doc

 

[YerroBryBry]

We aren't talking about luigi vs both doc and Mario were talking about mario vs luigi and doc

LOL

Sorry about that, I guess I didn't read the thread properly...

Alright, Mario vs luigi matchup is what you need right? I can give you information on that as well. I believe that there really is no distinct advantage to either of the characters. From my intuition I believe that Mario definitely has a better game in air, due to him being better in terms of air mobility and string potential. However, I do believe that Mario has to try slightly harder to rack up the same percentage as luigi would have, simply because any slip in a string results to Luigi's Nair punish.

Stage control is absolutely vital in this matchup because I'd say luigi dominates the ground game, and you don't want to be on the defensive against a well spaced luigi. Likewise, due to the fact luigi has very bad air mobility (i.e slow fast fall speed) it is easier for Mario to pull off the up air string combo. Anticipate Luigi's Nair and shield grab it.

mario has better fireballs in terms of long range, and his cape can deal with Luigi's fireball mid range. I'd personally recommend Using fireball midair in mid range, and going for the grab as a frame trap... Unless the luigi camps and perfect shields.

I don't think you should challenge luigi offstage unless it's a safe move, such as bair, or if Luigi's recovery is predictable.

Overall I believe that the match up between Mario and luigi is in fact a 55:45 in favour to luigi, simply because luigi can consistently deal so much percentage from little effort needed.

Hope this helps.

 

[miniada]

LOL

Sorry about that, I guess I didn't read the thread properly...

Alright, Mario vs luigi matchup is what you need right? I can give you information on that as well. I believe that there really is no distinct advantage to either of the characters. From my intuition I believe that Mario definitely has a better game in air, due to him being better in terms of air mobility and string potential. However, I do believe that Mario has to try slightly harder to rack up the same percentage as luigi would have, simply because any slip in a string results to Luigi's Nair punish.

Stage control is absolutely vital in this matchup because I'd say luigi dominates the ground game, and you don't want to be on the defensive against a well spaced luigi. Likewise, due to the fact luigi has very bad air mobility (i.e slow fast fall speed) it is easier for Mario to pull off the up air string combo. Anticipate Luigi's Nair and shield grab it.

mario has better fireballs in terms of long range, and his cape can deal with Luigi's fireball mid range. I'd personally recommend Using fireball midair in mid range, and going for the grab as a frame trap... Unless the luigi camps and perfect shields.

I don't think you should challenge luigi offstage unless it's a safe move, such as bair, or if Luigi's recovery is predictable.

Overall I believe that the match up between Mario and luigi is in fact a 55:45 in favour to luigi, simply because luigi can consistently deal so much percentage from little effort needed.

Hope this helps.

What about mario vs doc

 

[YerroBryBry]

Sorry man, don't really know too much about doctor Mario himself...

I guess this video explains the differences between Mario and doctor Mario: http://youtu.be/nhKA4te7Aw0

Hopefully you can deduct these differences and apply them into actual games; good luck!

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

Sorry man, don't really know too much about doctor Mario himself...

I guess this video explains the differences between Mario and doctor Mario: http://youtu.be/nhKA4te7Aw0

Hopefully you can deduct these differences and apply them into actual games; good luck!

That's not the best video for this. That guy knows very little about Doc.

This should be an even matchup. They have 99% identical frame data, and each of them has some unique advantages over another. Mario can chase Doc more easily and gets better damage off of throws at mid percents. Mario gets easier punishes due to his mobility. Doc can punish harder with up b and can disrupt Mario with down b. Doc's throw combos work at various percents but don't lead into much. Mario has a better recovery due to his airspeed and up b distance. Mario's edgeguarding is safer but does not cover all areas. It could work on Doc once his options are exhausted, but it's not a little mac scenario. Doc has a better, but riskier, edgeguarding game with down b, reverse up, backwards up air, late nair and dair.

Both of them rely on bair spacing, though Doc gets better reward off of his. Both get out of combos with nair and up b. Both of them do well up close thanks to their jabs. Both can space each other with d tilt.

Mario's dair is better for offensive plays and shield pressuring. Doc's dair is better for defensive plays and roll reads.

Their fairs suck, outside of the range. So they suck equally in this department. I don't think their projectiles are noteworthy, but b reversing them gives them decent fakeouts.

I think this is the most honest battle in the game. The footsies are just very raw (i.e. based heavy on normals), and neither character seems to have any easy mode bs on each other.

 

[Xandercosm]

As stated in the other MU thread, Luigi is arguably Mario's worst matchup. I've been trying to convince myself that it was a close 45:55 in Luigi's favor but no. Recent results, mainly from Ally, plus general knowledge show that Luigi beats Mario solidly. Like while we have to struggle to get damage, yet alone get a kill, Luigi can just get a couple of hits in and then use one of his kill confirms. It's so frustrating. Luigi's only disadvantaged state is offstage.

40:60 . If Luigi's disadvantaged state offstage/on the ledge wouldn't be so bad, it would be 35:65 easily. Unless you like to fight tight uphill battles, I'd suggest having a sub-main ready for Weegee.

Against Doc is mostly even. Mario has better mobility and combo game, Doc has better kill power and damage output. Edgeguarding game is almost even too, maybe Doc wins with his tornado. But the latter has worse recovery.

50:50

Sorry, no way. Mario is high tier, Doc is low tier trash... More like: 55:45

 

[miniada]

40:6050:50
discuss

45:55 he can't deal with combos gets punished easily gimped and he can't land
45:55also gets combo'ed gimped and punished can't approach with clown car
50:50/45:55 peach has a great air and pressuring game and a float useful to escape sone situation and gets out of Dthrow UTilt pretty quicklyhowever marios mobility the fact he is hard to punish his aerial combos kill moves and edgeguard ability could be hard for peach
55:45 she is easy to combo and kill however Luma Is good for pressure can stop marios approach she can gimp Mario and she has stupid and I mean stupid priority
EDIT: if you are viewing this thread and you know stuff about the matchups please comment discussion is going very slow :-(

 

[Underhill]

vs: Rosalina wins slighty with 45:55 and here's why. Customs, I heard its even, but I don't have any good info
Lets start with Mario. He has mobility and a rushdown playstyle which can be bad for Rosalina. Down-air and back throw can help split R&L so Mario can get Luma off-stage and rushdown as quick as possible for 13 seconds. Forward-smash can help and blast Luma away from Rosalina, but it may get you punished if she shield. Mario's jiggling game can be a threat to Rosalina because she's floaty and her landing options aren't safe thanks to his up-smash. Since she's tall and huge, she can get combed easily as long as Luma ain't around to break your combos. Fireballs can be useful(not 100%, though) to bait GP, and help get around R&L with pivot, SH fireball, and full-hop. Cape, f-air, n-air, and b-air can useful against the Launch star since she has no hitbox at all. Mario can kill better on stage slighty because Rosalina is light, floaty, having rage on his side, and his kills are safer to use. Mario will still have to deal with range which can be bad for him. With Luma around, its harder for him to approach because of her jabs, tiles, and pivot movement. Avoid being on top of Rosalina at all cost because her up-air can be a huge threat to Mario by jiggling him, beating his aerials since they lack range, and she can even get a early kill off of too with Luma. Also, her up-tile and up-smash are anti-air moves as well. Her edgeguarding game is stronger because of Mario's linear recovery, her b-air, and deadly d-air for spiking and getting stage spikes as well on Smashville and Battlefield. Also, if she hits him with Luma's down-air hitbox, then its either causing Mario to be out of reach for the ledge or getting a early kill.
Stages: Battlefield and Dreamland, while Mario can get some extra combos and set-ups, those stages help Rosalina more because of her height and range to use the platforms to jiggle more and give him trouble landing. Delfino Plaza and Halberb, It may help Mario to get some verical kills with up-smash, down-air, and up-air, but it may help Rosalina more for her to harass Mario with platforms and get early kills with her up-airs because of the low-ceiling. Go for Lylat Cruise because she'll have a hard time recovering because of the stage moving and it can cause her to fall to her death if missed.

vs: Even for both of them.
Peach's float can use it to approach, space and pressure with aerials, mindgames, bait, and start up combos. Peach is slow on the ground and has trouble approaching outside of turnips and floating, While Mario has better mobility both the ground and in the air mix up with pivot movementm fox-dance trots, fireballs, auto cancel aerials, and Short hops. However, she can QFR, JCFF, B-reversal with her Peach bomber and turnips for mix ups. While Mario's aerials are fast and safer to use, his aerials have less range outside of his b-air and because of that, Peach aerials(especially her b-air and f-air) can be used to out-space, out-range, and out-priority him which can give Mario trouble getting close to her and dealing with her spaced aerials so her air game is superior(not much), thanks to her floating to add on that. SH B-air(RAR), n-air, up-airs and fireballs(b-reversal also) to shut down her float. Peach's combo potential better than Mario because she has a bunch to do mix-ups with her aerials, turnips, from JCFF(Jump cancel Fast Fall), her bomber as a finisher, to pressure, baiting Mario's n-air and up-b(if overuse for combo breaking or she reads them), air dodges, and mixing up your di. You won't get many up-tiles from down throw since she's light and floaty enough to jump out and escape, but you can get a small combo with up-b and get up-airs off of her and finish it off from anything else if you read the di. Caping her turnips shouldn't be a problem, but use it too much because she can bait it out with z-drop, floating, QFR, or JCFF to get a free punish off of you. Mario wins the jiggling game because of his mobility to keep up with Peach's landings in order to punish, jiggle with up-smash and up-airs, and bait out her landings or air-dodges. Anti-air move is up-smash, but be careful not to use it too much because of her floating or second jump to bait out so mix up with pivot smashes, grabs, trots, and SH aerials. Peach's up-airs are disjointed, and can not only jiggle Mario and beat out his aerials due to better range, but can also cancel out from the first frame to the ground to get a grab or small combo. Up-smash and up-tile are ok for anti-airs, but slow and less horizontal range because she have to get hard reads off of them so they're less useful. Mario's ko potential is better, but slighty because his ko options have better frame data, kill early(especially with rage) since Peach is light and floaty, and are safer than Peach's ko options. Peach's ko options outside of her f-air, gimps, and back throw aren't safe or good(not bad, though) against Mario because of her light weight. Peach is more difficult than you are, thanks to her superior recovery to mix up with floating, bomber to the ledge, Parasol beats out Mario's aerials under her, and turnips if she has them in her hands. While our up-b is difficult to challenge, she can use d-airs to either stage spike(if knocked from the back of her feet), cover get up, or hit you to f-air if you get caught by it, b-air for stage spike, f-air if she gets a read, or n-air to fast fall you for air dodging from her d-airs or turnips. Watch out for the toad because if you get knocked far, burn out your double jump, and she gets a read off of your toad, then you're finished. Plus the turnips, Stitch-Face, and Bomb-omb while your recovering. Peach's Ledgeguard and ledge trump are something to keep in mind as well. Ledge punishes are down-smash, d-airs, down-tile, and golf-club.
Stages: Battlefield, she can use the platfroms to mix up her recovery with floating, jiggle and pressure under the pressure with turnips and up-airs, and get more combos off of platforms. Mario can do the same, but the recovery option. Dreamland, good for both and same as BF, but wind blowing, more space, and ceiling being alittle low for early vertical kills. Lylat Cruise, not a bad stage for Peach because of the stage being thiner for her up-b to hit Mario, platforms to use even though the moving can mess us up.

 

[miniada]

I know we were gonna re discuss some charecters but already ok then discuss

 

[miniada]

50:50/45:55 he can break out of chess combos but gets juggled by aerials he out ranges mario and is hard to kill but has laggy moves and a gimpable recovery
55:45 IDK about this matchup but the diddy boards think mario wins
50:50/45:55 mario can't combo him and he's hard to kill but from my experience at yoshi boards yoshi has a hard time landing and he can't egg trap due to his cape
55:45 fireballs allow mario to approach wario is easy to combo has laggier moves mario can punish and he can cape his bike

 

[Guimartgon]

Hi, I tend to play with a couple Diddy mains here and there so I feel like I can report a bit of info on the MU.

Neutral: as you could obviously predict, the neutral revolves solely around grabs. Both characters have a pretty strong neutral. While Diddy has banana set ups and can move all over the place with reverse peanut popgun cancels and B reversed bananas, Side B to boost crawl e.t.c. Mario has the ability of completely shutting down Diddy's Peanuts with our Fireball, we also have slightly better frame data all around except when he is right above diddy or they are both facing each other aerially. Utilt And Usmash act as great anti-airs for diddys that try to get cute with mindless jumping but the same could be said with Diddy's Utilt and SHFF Uair. A good tip to deal with the banana is to try to not shield it, shielding the banana can lead to Mario getting grabbed. I've found that it's a lot more effective to, at far distances, cape the banana. At mid-range distances, Perfect Shielding and immediately jabbing to stop Diddy from Dash grabbing and at closer distances try to either Spot Dodge or try to see if you can clank the banana with a jab and then jab again.

-In Summary: try and get a grab and don't get grabbed. Don't approach with SHFF Nair too much. Well placed Fireballs can easily lead to grabs and be aware of the banana set ups. I'd say the neutral is pretty even with Mario having a very minuscule advantage.


Advantage: AKA after getting the grab. Well at lower %s Mario has a better instant reward damage-wise, Dthrow to Utilt until you can tell they've DI'ed up, for the most part Diddy will try to jump away and Mario can catch that with some Uairs, of course at higher %s you rely a lot more in juggles, and juggling a good Diddy can be hell since they can easily maneuver all over the place with their exclusive techs. Again, Mario can try to punish this with his Usmash. On the other hand Diddy's combo game has more options than Mario, but has a harder time executing them. At low %s Diddy has some great combos that are DI dependent, You can either get hit by a bunch of Uairs and then try to land, or Di to a side and get hit by a Fair/Bair that leaves Diddy with an edgeguard opportunity.Luckily for us he needs to fish for those airdodges at high %s if he really wants to get that stock.

-In Summary: Both characters have relatively similar advantageous states, they are both very good at Uair juggling and can also set up into edgeguard situations with Bair(or Fair for Diddy).I'd say they both have very similar advantageous states as far as comboing goes. For advantage while trying to take a stock read the "Getting the stock" section down below.


Disadvantage: Both characters have a decent disadvantage state. Mario has that incredible frame 3 Nair that allows him to escape from Diddy's strings every so often. Diddy doesn't quite have that, if you're not careful and fast though you might take a sudden Up B and die from the explosion but that is something that has rarely ever happened to me at least. Mario can also use the FLUDD to keep Diddy away. I do not know if Diddy can Side B out of Mario's combos.

-In summary: I'd say Mario has a slightly better disadvantage state than diddy solely because of how good Nair is.


Edgeguarding: Both characters have pretty lacking recoveries. While Mario is edgeguarding diddy, if Diddy charges his up B too close to the stage Mario can just drop and Nair/ RAR Bair him to edgeguard him. FLUDD is also pretty good at messing up Diddy's Up B. If he side Bs though, things are a little more complicated for Mario. Mario can still edgeguard him it just requires more precision, you can try to cape or just throw a Bair and wait for diddy to come into the hitbox. While Diddy is edguarding the plummer, it is all about diddy getting rid of Mario's jump. without his jump, Diddy can just meet the plummer in the air and Fair him and there goes the stock.

-In summary: Both characters have fairly good edgeguarding options but Diddy has a slight advantage since he has broader options.

Taking the stock: similar to the neutral stance, taking the stock on-stage revolves around good anti airs for Mario as well as getting a grab for both characters.Both characters have Bthrows that can KO at similar percents but Diddy has an easier time netting the KO from a grab and into a combo and he also has the ability to set up for Fsmashes with the banana. Mario has issues netting the KO from a grab other than Bthrowing at the edge but to compensate that we have the all mighty Usmash, don't spam it but now that if Diddy dares to jump, that could very easily be the stock. Usmash also kills much earlier than most of Diddy's options.

-In summary: Both characters have very good ways to net the stock, but the presence of Mario's invincible Usmash as well as it KOing earlier give Mario an advantage.


Overall summary: This match up is very close, I wouldn't call it a 55-45 but neither would I call it 50-50. If I'm forced to pick one(which is why I dislike this ratios) I'd have to go with a very even 55-45

 

[miniada]

Hi, I tend to play with a couple Diddy mains here and there so I feel like I can report a bit of info on the MU.

Neutral: as you could obviously predict, the neutral revolves solely around grabs. Both characters have a pretty strong neutral. While Diddy has banana set ups and can move all over the place with reverse peanut popgun cancels and B reversed bananas, Side B to boost crawl e.t.c. Mario has the ability of completely shutting down Diddy's Peanuts with our Fireball, we also have slightly better frame data all around except when he is right above diddy or they are both facing each other aerially. Utilt And Usmash act as great anti-airs for diddys that try to get cute with mindless jumping but the same could be said with Diddy's Utilt and SHFF Uair. A good tip to deal with the banana is to try to not shield it, shielding the banana can lead to Mario getting grabbed. I've found that it's a lot more effective to, at far distances, cape the banana. At mid-range distances, Perfect Shielding and immediately jabbing to stop Diddy from Dash grabbing and at closer distances try to either Spot Dodge or try to see if you can clank the banana with a jab and then jab again.

-In Summary: try and get a grab and don't get grabbed. Don't approach with SHFF Nair too much. Well placed Fireballs can easily lead to grabs and be aware of the banana set ups. I'd say the neutral is pretty even with Mario having a very minuscule advantage.


Advantage: AKA after getting the grab. Well at lower %s Mario has a better instant reward damage-wise, Dthrow to Utilt until you can tell they've DI'ed up, for the most part Diddy will try to jump away and Mario can catch that with some Uairs, of course at higher %s you rely a lot more in juggles, and juggling a good Diddy can be hell since they can easily maneuver all over the place with their exclusive techs. Again, Mario can try to punish this with his Usmash. On the other hand Diddy's combo game has more options than Mario, but has a harder time executing them. At low %s Diddy has some great combos that are DI dependent, You can either get hit by a bunch of Uairs and then try to land, or Di to a side and get hit by a Fair/Bair that leaves Diddy with an edgeguard opportunity.Luckily for us he needs to fish for those airdodges at high %s if he really wants to get that stock.

-In Summary: Both characters have relatively similar advantageous states, they are both very good at Uair juggling and can also set up into edgeguard situations with Bair(or Fair for Diddy).I'd say they both have very similar advantageous states as far as comboing goes. For advantage while trying to take a stock read the "Getting the stock" section down below.


Disadvantage: Both characters have a decent disadvantage state. Mario has that incredible frame 3 Nair that allows him to escape from Diddy's strings every so often. Diddy doesn't quite have that, if you're not careful and fast though you might take a sudden Up B and die from the explosion but that is something that has rarely ever happened to me at least. Mario can also use the FLUDD to keep Diddy away. I do not know if Diddy can Side B out of Mario's combos.

-In summary: I'd say Mario has a slightly better disadvantage state than diddy solely because of how good Nair is.


Edgeguarding: Both characters have pretty lacking recoveries. While Mario is edgeguarding diddy, if Diddy charges his up B too close to the stage Mario can just drop and Nair/ RAR Bair him to edgeguard him. FLUDD is also pretty good at messing up Diddy's Up B. If he side Bs though, things are a little more complicated for Mario. Mario can still edgeguard him it just requires more precision, you can try to cape or just throw a Bair and wait for diddy to come into the hitbox. While Diddy is edguarding the plummer, it is all about diddy getting rid of Mario's jump. without his jump, Diddy can just meet the plummer in the air and Fair him and there goes the stock.

-In summary: Both characters have fairly good edgeguarding options but Diddy has a slight advantage since he has broader options.

Taking the stock: similar to the neutral stance, taking the stock on-stage revolves around good anti airs for Mario as well as getting a grab for both characters.Both characters have Bthrows that can KO at similar percents but Diddy has an easier time netting the KO from a grab and into a combo and he also has the ability to set up for Fsmashes with the banana. Mario has issues netting the KO from a grab other than Bthrowing at the edge but to compensate that we have the all mighty Usmash, don't spam it but now that if Diddy dares to jump, that could very easily be the stock. Usmash also kills much earlier than most of Diddy's options.

-In summary: Both characters have very good ways to net the stock, but the presence of Mario's invincible Usmash as well as it KOing earlier give Mario an advantage.


Overall summary: This match up is very close, I wouldn't call it a 55-45 but neither would I call it 50-50. If I'm forced to pick one(which is why I dislike this ratios) I'd have to go with a very even 55-45

Thanks for the input

 

[Xeze]

Mario loses to DK. The MU was probably even before the latest patch, but now that DK has actually an effective way to close up stocks off a grab... Mario is pretty much screwed. DK can escape from Mario's combos with his Up B, but Mario can punish it on a read. DK has superior range, more damage per hit (as he is supposed to, being a heavyweight) and with his already mentioned kill combo, the Ding Dong, Mario must be extremely careful when in kill percent (around 60%-100%, depending on DK's rage).

Offstage DK edgeguards Mario pretty reliably with up B and b-air. Mario in return can try to do the same with b-airs and fireballs. Forcing DK to go low is good, since his vertical recovery is bad.

Overall I would say 40:60 . One of Mario's worst matchups, on par with Luigi. Not unwinnable by any means, but tough. You always feel like you're fighting an uphill battle.



This MU is a bit stupid. Yoshi can just break out of combos with his double jump super armor, eggs are annoying as hell to deal with and Yoshi's priority is insane. Luckily, his attacks aren't really safe on shield. When fighting Yoshi, you have to be patient. Get a couple of hits in, then reset to neutral. Harass him with fireballs, reflect eggs smartly (specially when he is recovering with them), and don't chase Yoshi in the air unless you know the hitstun will last long enough for the follow up, otherwise you'll get a down B into the face.

You can edgeguard Yoshi if you intercept him with cape+FLUDD on his second jump. Without it, Yoshi has a hard time coming back. Watch out for his f-air and d-air edgeguards too.

50:50 Since Mario can't do his usual combo game on him, it becomes a battle of patience. Yoshi will force you to approach more times than you do. Shield is your best friend in this MU. If Yoshi actually had a good shield grab, he would win the MU.


On the other two I am not quite sure. I know Mario wins vs Wario and probably goes even or wins slightly vs Diddy, but I can't really give any ratios on those.

 

[miniada]

Mario loses to DK. The MU was probably even before the latest patch, but now that DK has actually an effective way to close up stocks off a grab... Mario is pretty much screwed. DK can escape from Mario's combos with his Up B, but Mario can punish it on a read. DK has superior range, more damage per hit (as he is supposed to, being a heavyweight) and with his already mentioned kill combo, the Ding Dong, Mario must be extremely careful when in kill percent (around 60%-100%, depending on DK's rage).

Offstage DK edgeguards Mario pretty reliably with up B and b-air. Mario in return can try to do the same with b-airs and fireballs. Forcing DK to go low is good, since his vertical recovery is bad.

Overall I would say 40:60 . One of Mario's worst matchups, on par with Luigi. Not unwinnable by any means, but tough. You always feel like you're fighting an uphill battle.



This MU is a bit stupid. Yoshi can just break out of combos with his double jump super armor, eggs are annoying as hell to deal with and Yoshi's priority is insane. Luckily, his attacks aren't really safe on shield. When fighting Yoshi, you have to be patient. Get a couple of hits in, then reset to neutral. Harass him with fireballs, reflect eggs smartly (specially when he is recovering with them), and don't chase Yoshi in the air unless you know the hitstun will last long enough for the follow up, otherwise you'll get a down B into the face.

You can edgeguard Yoshi if you intercept him with cape+FLUDD on his second jump. Without it, Yoshi has a hard time coming back. Watch out for his f-air and d-air edgeguards too.

50:50 Since Mario can't do his usual combo game on him, it becomes a battle of patience. Yoshi will force you to approach more times than you do. Shield is your best friend in this MU. If Yoshi actually had a good shield grab, he would win the MU.


On the other two I am not quite sure. I know Mario wins vs Wario and probably goes even or wins slightly vs Diddy, but I can't really give any ratios on those.

dk is bad but as bad as luigi no lugi just wrecKS him it's like his 2nd worst matchup IMO

 

[The21stSmasher]

Can somebody please explain the Mario vs. Shulk match-up? I really need tips to as of how to beat this dude.

 

[miniada]

Can somebody please explain the Mario vs. Shulk match-up? I really need tips to as of how to beat this dude.

Normally people would say " we are discussing so and so and this is off topic" but I'll help you out 50:50/55:45 shulk has range in his favor but that's it mario has better mobility a great gimping tool amazing frame data and combos he can't escape he has counter to escape up tilt but it can be predectid and can be punished from a grab EDIT: I feel that this is one of those matchups people say so and so goes even or wins because of this small advantage they are giving to much credit to