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Official Mario Enigma Machine [1.1.1] Patch Notes

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Athorment

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Has someone pointed out that there was an update to replays?
You can now choose to post the replay as is or generate an automated "Highlight Reel" when posting to Miiverse/Youtube
 

Radical Larry

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Shaya Shaya Thinkaman Thinkaman
I just tested out Toon Link's Grounded Sliding Spin Attack in both the custom moves room and Training Mode, and I see no change to the hitboxes of Toon Link's attack. It's still a singular hit that does 17% damage fully charged, and does NOT deal 6 hits; not even the aerial version hits 6 times.

So one of two conclusions:
1) Thinkaman's data on the attack having 6 hitboxes was WRONG and as such, needs to be removed from the OP.
2) The attack now has 6 hitboxes that go active 1 after another and deactivate once the opponent is hit. However, it is unlikely since you could do this in prior versions.

Being that I actually tested it out instead of going to data sources, I found out something flawed in the changes likely. Thinkaman, mind giving me an explanation as to how there are supposed to be 6 hitboxes within the attack from 1? Wouldn't the attack connect together if that were the case? If not, where are the hitboxes?
 

Eureka

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Shaya Shaya Thinkaman Thinkaman
I just tested out Toon Link's Grounded Sliding Spin Attack in both the custom moves room and Training Mode, and I see no change to the hitboxes of Toon Link's attack. It's still a singular hit that does 17% damage fully charged, and does NOT deal 6 hits; not even the aerial version hits 6 times.

So one of two conclusions:
1) Thinkaman's data on the attack having 6 hitboxes was WRONG and as such, needs to be removed from the OP.
2) The attack now has 6 hitboxes that go active 1 after another and deactivate once the opponent is hit. However, it is unlikely since you could do this in prior versions.

Being that I actually tested it out instead of going to data sources, I found out something flawed in the changes likely. Thinkaman, mind giving me an explanation as to how there are supposed to be 6 hitboxes within the attack from 1? Wouldn't the attack connect together if that were the case? If not, where are the hitboxes?
You do realize that just because a move has multiple hit boxes doesn't mean they all connect together right? For example, you can't hit with the late hit of Mario's nair if you hit with the strong hit on the same opponent. Also I find it hilarious that you think your own testing is somehow more valid then directly looking at the coding of the game.
 
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Radical Larry

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You do realize that just because a move has multiple hit boxes doesn't mean they all connect together right? For example, you can't hit with the late hit of Mario's nair if you hit with the strong hit on the same opponent. Also I find it hilarious that you think your own testing is somehow more valid then directly looking at the coding of the game.
No matter how I test it, it always comes as a 17% or 14% fully charged in any distance, which pretty much happened prior to the patch. Blocking it or hitting the opponent makes it act like Link's Spin Attack (where it won't hit in that place or attack again). And besides, it's not that hard to try double checking things, but I know from my own eyes that there's something weird.

I tried Temple, a custom stage with a ceiling and everything to look for these 6 hitboxes. But maybe if Thinkaman Thinkaman can clarify how the hitboxes work, maybe there'd be a better understanding of things, but from what I see, it's just a constant 17% or 14% hitbox depending on which side Tink's facing.

Also, using Mario's N-Air is a terrible comparison since it is only a single-hit move. Toon Link's Sliding Spin looks like it can be a move that can hit multiple times, like Tornado Uppercut on Little Mac (yes, that hits multiple times on opponents to walls).
 
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ARGHETH

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No matter how I test it, it always comes as a 17% or 14% fully charged in any distance, which pretty much happened prior to the patch. Blocking it or hitting the opponent makes it act like Link's Spin Attack (where it won't hit in that place or attack again). And besides, it's not that hard to try double checking things, but I know from my own eyes that there's something weird.

I tried Temple, a custom stage with a ceiling and everything to look for these 6 hitboxes. But maybe if Thinkaman Thinkaman can clarify how the hitboxes work, maybe there'd be a better understanding of things, but from what I see, it's just a constant 17% or 14% hitbox depending on which side Tink's facing.

Also, using Mario's N-Air is a terrible comparison since it is only a single-hit move. Toon Link's Sliding Spin looks like it can be a move that can hit multiple times, like Tornado Uppercut on Little Mac (yes, that hits multiple times on opponents to walls).
... I just tried it, and it consistently hit multiple times in the air, though I could only get it to hit once on the ground.
We're talking about the custom that goes horizontally, right? Up B 2?
EDIT: I misread, sorry.
 
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Zapp Branniglenn

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The wording for the change is the only issue. The move used to be one singular hitbox. Toon Link spins six times, so they created an individual hit for each one. However, they all are part of the same move, thus you can still only hit a target once from the ground. The first three spins deal 11% uncharged, and the next three deal 10. I believe fully charged also is increased from 16 to 17. They could have accomplished the same change by just adding one additional hitbox and spanning it across the first half of the move. If you want to know why there are six hitbox designations instead of two, you got me.

Also I find it hilarious that you think your own testing is somehow more valid then directly looking at the coding of the game.
Manual testing can be very fruitful. I only know some basics of the code, which tell me which moves to look at for something that has changed. If you interpret changes directly from code, you get mistakes, especially regarding endlag and landlag. And manual testing doesn't help at all for giving precise knockback, active frames, and parameter changes. They are two avenues of study that only work well together.
 

Radical Larry

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Zapp Branniglenn Zapp Branniglenn Thanks for the information, but manual testing needed to be done, because I was skeptical.

Shaya Shaya I think you need to take that Zapp just said to the biggest point and rework how Toon Link's HB frames work. Because it will only lead to mass confusion when people test it out, thinking it changed from one hit to six. So nothing wrong on Thinkaman's part except for not being very detailed about it.
 

Shaya

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Hmm, I suppose the wording can lead to confusion but I do tend to keep "Hits"/"Strikes" and hitboxes separate in explanation. I was assuming I'd come to a description that stated just "hits" or something. I didn't say it now hits six times either.
 

Thinkaman

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Via dantarion, 1.1.0:

Code:
unk_F45595A1(0x2)
unk_F1FBEFEE(0x40200000, 0x0)
AsynchronousTimer(3.000000)#frame 3
unk_A1B6E607(0x0, 0x3e9, -2.000000, 0.000000, -1.000000)
unk_AC811479(0xe, nan)
AsynchronousTimer(4.000000)#frame 4
unk_7075DC5A(0x0, 0x0, 0x3e9, 0x41200000, 0x32, 0x43, 0x0, 0x46, 0x40400000, 0xc0000000L, 0x0, 0xbf800000L, 0x2, 0x0, 0x3f800000, 0x3f800000, 0x0, 0x1, 0x0, 0x0, 0x2, 0x3, 0x1, 0xa, 0x3f, 0x0, 0xf, 0x0, 0x1, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x40e00000, 0x0, 0xbf800000L)
AsynchronousTimer(45.000000)#frame 45
RemoveAllHitboxes()
AsynchronousTimer(46.000000)#frame 46
FrameSpeedMultiplier(1.750000)
AsynchronousTimer(49.000000)#frame 49
FrameSpeedMultiplier(1.000000)
End()
1.1.1:

Code:
unk_F45595A1(0x2)
unk_F1FBEFEE(0x40333333, 0x0)
AsynchronousTimer(3.000000)#frame 3
DefensiveBox_A1B6E607(0x0, 0x3e9, -2.000000, 0.000000, -1.000000)
DefensiveBox_A1B6E607(0x1, 0x3e9, 2.500000, 0.000000, -1.000000)
DefensiveBox_A1B6E607(0x2, 0x3e9, 7.000000, 0.000000, -1.000000)
unk_AC811479(0xe, nan)
AsynchronousTimer(4.000000)#frame 4
Hitbox6_14FCC7E4(Id=0x0, Bone?=0x0, unk?=0x3e9, Damage=11.000000, Angle=0x32, BKB=0x4b, WKB?=0x0, KBG=0x46, Size=3.000000, X=-2.000000, Y=0.000000, -1.000000, 0x2, 0x0, 1.000000, 1.000000, 0x0, 0x1, 0x0, 0x0, 0x2, 0x3, 0x1, 0xa, 0x3f, 0x0, 0xf, 0x0, 0x1, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0)
Hitbox6_14FCC7E4(Id=0x1, Bone?=0x0, unk?=0x3e9, Damage=11.000000, Angle=0x32, BKB=0x4b, WKB?=0x0, KBG=0x46, Size=3.000000, X=2.500000, Y=0.000000, -1.000000, 0x2, 0x0, 1.000000, 1.000000, 0x0, 0x1, 0x0, 0x0, 0x2, 0x3, 0x1, 0xa, 0x3f, 0x0, 0xf, 0x0, 0x1, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0)
Hitbox6_14FCC7E4(Id=0x2, Bone?=0x0, unk?=0x3e9, Damage=11.000000, Angle=0x32, BKB=0x4b, WKB?=0x0, KBG=0x46, Size=3.000000, X=7.000000, Y=0.000000, -1.000000, 0x2, 0x0, 1.000000, 1.000000, 0x0, 0x1, 0x0, 0x0, 0x2, 0x3, 0x1, 0xa, 0x3f, 0x0, 0xf, 0x0, 0x1, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0)
AsynchronousTimer(12.000000)#frame 12
Hitbox6_14FCC7E4(Id=0x0, Bone?=0x0, unk?=0x3e9, Damage=10.000000, Angle=0x32, BKB=0x4b, WKB?=0x0, KBG=0x46, Size=3.000000, X=-2.000000, Y=0.000000, -1.000000, 0x2, 0x0, 1.000000, 1.000000, 0x0, 0x1, 0x0, 0x0, 0x2, 0x3, 0x1, 0xa, 0x3f, 0x0, 0xf, 0x0, 0x1, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0)
Hitbox6_14FCC7E4(Id=0x1, Bone?=0x0, unk?=0x3e9, Damage=10.000000, Angle=0x32, BKB=0x4b, WKB?=0x0, KBG=0x46, Size=3.000000, X=2.500000, Y=0.000000, -1.000000, 0x2, 0x0, 1.000000, 1.000000, 0x0, 0x1, 0x0, 0x0, 0x2, 0x3, 0x1, 0xa, 0x3f, 0x0, 0xf, 0x0, 0x1, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0)
Hitbox6_14FCC7E4(Id=0x2, Bone?=0x0, unk?=0x3e9, Damage=10.000000, Angle=0x32, BKB=0x4b, WKB?=0x0, KBG=0x46, Size=3.000000, X=7.000000, Y=0.000000, -1.000000, 0x2, 0x0, 1.000000, 1.000000, 0x0, 0x1, 0x0, 0x0, 0x2, 0x3, 0x1, 0xa, 0x3f, 0x0, 0xf, 0x0, 0x1, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0)
AsynchronousTimer(45.000000)#frame 45
RemoveAllHitboxes()
AsynchronousTimer(46.000000)#frame 46
FrameSpeedMultiplier(1.750000)
AsynchronousTimer(49.000000)#frame 49
FrameSpeedMultiplier(1.000000)
End()
 

Radical Larry

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Well, I do certainly see a difference now. Thanks for the clearing up; although let's make sure we use coding AND in-game testing to get the facts in order to avoid any confusion.

Oh, and that new 14% hitbox added on Link's Shocking Spin is just a mere buff on when the first spin hits backward for the first time, not a new hitbox being added; the second hit has always been there.
 

ksizl4life

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Just an update: Me and Zucco should be releasing the video tomorrow afternoon on our channel www.youtube.com/vitaminzkgames . Will post it here. This will detail all notes that are confirmed on Smashboards and ssbwiki. I'd like to point out that we found various things to be incorrect, specifically on the frame data side. For instance, something that was reduced in end lag by 5 frames detailed here was actually reduced by 10 frames after checking myself.

I record 1080p 60fps with an X-Capture-1

Also want to comment on the current debate on Toon Links sliding spin attack. It does have an extra hitbox, it actually moves further. We have a pretty good example to show it, side by side compare/contrast with 1.1.0 and 1.1.1

But yeah, stay tuned!
 
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PEPESPAIN

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PAC-MAN Hydrant throught platforms glitch is removed
 

King Omega

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I'm interested to see why replays are broken in 1.1.2. It seems strange Nintendo would prefer to invalidate all replays from the past week rather than potentially desynchronize a few that may have the Diddy glitch (not just the glitch occurring, but Diddy failing to be grabbed afterward) in them.
 

ARGHETH

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Probably because that's what they've done for all gameplay changes. Doesn't matter if it's just a glitch fix, it's still going to happen. Besides, they might need to change other things to fix the glitch and cause other changes.
 
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LancerStaff

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I'm interested to see why replays are broken in 1.1.2. It seems strange Nintendo would prefer to invalidate all replays from the past week rather than potentially desynchronize a few that may have the Diddy glitch (not just the glitch occurring, but Diddy failing to be grabbed afterward) in them.
To me it seems like Nintendo's being Nintendo again, but there's always the slim chance that they might patch stuff like Aura Sphere shield breaks or Pikachu in general.
 

Vipermoon

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1 of 3 things is going on right now and it was being discussed somehow everywhere except here:

1. Regular damage (not additional shield damage) was modified to do more damage to a shield's HP. It would no longer be a 1:1 ratio.
2. Shield HP was reduced from 50 HP to between 41 and 43 (doubt it's this one since Shield Breaker still feels nerfed this would be a buff since SB lost 5).
3. Shield HP was always this low and nothing changed (also seems unlikely because of my Shield Breaker experience since game release). Unless SB's addition shield damage doesn't climb with charge as it's been assumed. We know SB has +50 at full charge but it might not gradually climb to 50.
 
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Eureka

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1 of 3 things is going on right now and it was being discussed somehow everywhere except here:

1. Regular damage (not additional shield damage) was modified to do more damage to a shield's HP. It would no longer be a 1:1 ratio.
2. Shield HP was reduced from 50 HP to between 41 and 43 (doubt it's this one since Shield Breaker still feels nerfed this would be a buff since SB lost 5).
3. Shield HP was always this low and nothing changed (also seems unlikely because of my Shield Breaker experience since game release). Unless SB's addition shield damage doesn't climb with charge as it's been assumed. We know SB has +50 at full charge but it might not gradually climb to 50.
And I'm assuming our friendly neighborhood code-examiners can't just take a look at the game and magically make our problems go away like they always seem to do?
 

Vipermoon

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And I'm assuming our friendly neighborhood code-examiners can't just take a look at the game and magically make our problems go away like they always seem to do?
No. It looks like they can't find this stuff but I've yet to receive confirmation.
 

Shaya

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And I'm assuming our friendly neighborhood code-examiners can't just take a look at the game and magically make our problems go away like they always seem to do?
Engine changes wouldn't necessarily be in a data format that is heavily and widely used throughout the game at multiple observable levels (i.e. character animation/attack data stuff).
Although people are making ways into that mess, and this change could suddenly help code monkeys deobfuscate the game further, nothing's easy nor guaranteed.
 

Eureka

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Where is this discussion on shield strength taking place exactly? Or is there no central thread for it?

Anyway a raw reduction on shield health should be easy enough to test, just hold shield and compare how long it takes between the earlier patch and the current one to see if there is a difference. Unless they also changed how much health shields lose over time, in which case that would need to be tested somehow. Disproving the third option is also easy, have two Ganondorf's f smash a shielding Yoshi at the same time (48 damage and can't shield poke) if it breaks his shield instantly in 1.1.0 we had the health wrong, if it breaks in 1.1.1 but not in 1.1.0 then there was a change.
 

Vipermoon

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Where is this discussion on shield strength taking place exactly? Or is there no central thread for it?

Anyway a raw reduction on shield health should be easy enough to test, just hold shield and compare how long it takes between the earlier patch and the current one to see if there is a difference. Unless they also changed how much health shields lose over time, in which case that would need to be tested somehow. Disproving the third option is also easy, have two Ganondorf's f smash a shielding Yoshi at the same time (48 damage and can't shield poke) if it breaks his shield instantly in 1.1.0 we had the health wrong, if it breaks in 1.1.1 but not in 1.1.0 then there was a change.
http://smashboards.com/threads/shields-in-1-1-1.419235/page-6

Here and the HP stuff was considered and tested already. Shields break in the low 40s both in this patch and the last patch.
 

LordWilliam1234

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Looks like the OP missed a couple of things in regards to :4lucas:, unrelated to the shield changes:

D-Smash: Total frames reduced from 63 to 60.

D-air: Landing lag reduced from 24 frames to 21.

It's possible these were changed in 1.10 (I'm checking from my 1.08 footage, Lucas was one of the characters I didn't get around to recording for 1.10), but the 1.10 OP doesn't mention this either.

Also have the full numbers for Lucas here.

And Fox.

And Greninja.

And Lucario.

And Lucario with Aura.

And Mewtwo.

Still got a ways to go before I finish with the cast though.

Also, more frame specifics (all changes originally found by Zapp Branniglenn Zapp Branniglenn , as always I just count the frames):

:4peach: Neutral B 2: Total frames from 82 -> 78. Counter activation total frames from 65 -> 60.

Neutral B 3: Total frames from 79 -> 77.

Numbers are the same for the air and ground versions of both.

:4bowser: Neutral B 2: Total frames from 70 -> 66.

:rosalina: Side B 2: Total frames from 62 -> 55. Down B 3 start-up frames from 6 -> 5, total frames from 54 -> 50.

:4wario: Neutral B 3: start-up frames from 58 -> 44. Total frames from 129 -> 135.

:4myfriends: Neutral B 3: Uncharged total frames from 86 -> 85. Full charge total frames from 320 -> 317.

:4robinm: Up B 2: start-up frames (second hit) from 49 -> 41.

:4kirby: Neutral B 2: start-up frames from 20 -> 15, total frames from 84 -> 68. Side B 2 Start-up frames (ground) from 24 -> 20, total frames from 72 -> 68. Side B 2 Start-up frames (air) from 26/40 -> 21/35, total frames from 74 -> 69.

:4charizard: Down B 2: start-up frames from 23 -> 21. Total frames from 70 -> 61.

:4greninja: Side B 3: Total frames reduced from 85 -> 77.

:4ness: Neutral B 3: minimum start-up from 54 -> 52. Minimum total frames from 79 -> 84. (You cancel later but the projectile explodes faster)

There's a few momentum changes noted also on Robin's Up B 2, Samus' Melee charge shot and the speed of Mega Man's Neutral B 2 projectile, I'll have gifs/pics of those changes here in a while.
 
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ReroRero

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Looks like the OP missed a couple of things in regards to :4lucas:, unrelated to the shield changes:

D-Smash: Total frames reduced from 63 to 60.

D-air: Landing lag reduced from 24 frames to 21.

It's possible these were changed in 1.10 (I'm checking from my 1.08 footage, Lucas was one of the characters I didn't get around to recording for 1.10), but the 1.10 OP doesn't mention this either.

Also have the full numbers for Lucas here.

And Fox.

And Greninja.

And Lucario.

And Lucario with Aura.

And Mewtwo.

Still got a ways to go before I finish with the cast though.

Also, more frame specifics (all changes originally found by Zapp Branniglenn Zapp Branniglenn , as always I just count the frames):

:4peach: Neutral B 2: Total frames from 82 -> 78. Counter activation total frames from 65 -> 60.

Neutral B 3: Total frames from 79 -> 77.

Numbers are the same for the air and ground versions of both.

:4bowser: Neutral B 2: Total frames from 70 -> 66.

:rosalina: Side B 2: Total frames from 62 -> 55. Down B 3 start-up frames from 6 -> 5, total frames from 54 -> 50.

:4wario: Neutral B 3: start-up frames from 58 -> 44. Total frames from 129 -> 135.

:4myfriends: Neutral B 3: Uncharged total frames from 86 -> 85. Full charge total frames from 320 -> 317.

:4robinm: Up B 2: start-up frames (second hit) from 49 -> 41.

:4kirby: Neutral B 2: start-up frames from 20 -> 15, total frames from 84 -> 68. Side B 2 Start-up frames (ground) from 24 -> 20, total frames from 72 -> 68. Side B 2 Start-up frames (air) from 26/40 -> 21/35, total frames from 74 -> 69.

:4charizard: Down B 2: start-up frames from 23 -> 21. Total frames from 70 -> 61.

:4greninja: Side B 3: Total frames reduced from 85 -> 77.

:4ness: Neutral B 3: minimum start-up from 54 -> 52. Minimum total frames from 79 -> 84. (You cancel later but the projectile explodes faster)

There's a few momentum changes noted also on Robin's Up B 2, Samus' Melee charge shot and the speed of Mega Man's Neutral B 2 projectile, I'll have gifs/pics of those changes here in a while.
Can you explain the values of the spreadsheet for me please ? I don't really understand any of these, thanks
 

LordWilliam1234

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Can you explain the values of the spreadsheet for me please ? I don't really understand any of these, thanks
Start-up: How long it takes for the move to actually hit. Lucas' jab has a start-up value of 2, which means it hits on frame 2. Moves that have multiple numbers (e.g. Lucas' n-air) mean that's the start-up for each individual hit.

Lag: How long you're stuck in a move after the start-up frames.

IASA: The first frame that you're able to cancel out of the move into something else. Usually applies to jabs.

Total frames: How long the move lasts overall, including start-up.

Block-freeze: How long the opponent is frozen still when you hit their shield.

Block-freeze (Self): How long you are frozen still when you hit an opponent's shield.

Blockstun: How long the opponent is stuck in their shield after block-freeze ends.

Advantage (Drop): How much faster (+) or slower (-) you recover than your opponent when you hit their shield. Drop refers to shield drop, which leaves the opponent stuck for an additional 7 frames if they just drop their shield.

Advantage (OOS): Same as Advantage (Drop), except this excludes shield drop frames, since some actions you are able to perform out of shield without having to go through shield drop frames (up smashes and up specials for example).

Hope that helps.
 

ReroRero

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Start-up: How long it takes for the move to actually hit. Lucas' jab has a start-up value of 2, which means it hits on frame 2. Moves that have multiple numbers (e.g. Lucas' n-air) mean that's the start-up for each individual hit.

Lag: How long you're stuck in a move after the start-up frames.

IASA: The first frame that you're able to cancel out of the move into something else. Usually applies to jabs.

Total frames: How long the move lasts overall, including start-up.

Block-freeze: How long the opponent is frozen still when you hit their shield.

Block-freeze (Self): How long you are frozen still when you hit an opponent's shield.

Blockstun: How long the opponent is stuck in their shield after block-freeze ends.

Advantage (Drop): How much faster (+) or slower (-) you recover than your opponent when you hit their shield. Drop refers to shield drop, which leaves the opponent stuck for an additional 7 frames if they just drop their shield.

Advantage (OOS): Same as Advantage (Drop), except this excludes shield drop frames, since some actions you are able to perform out of shield without having to go through shield drop frames (up smashes and up specials for example).

Hope that helps.
That's a lot more clear, thank you ! That means almost anything isn't safe on shield for greninja, welp :/
 
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John12346

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LordWilliam1234 LordWilliam1234 That's some crazy devotion right there, I and hopefully lot of people really appreciate this!

Also, if you're taking requests, can you do Sheik at some point soon? It might be helpful to know exactly what can and cannot be punished from this meta-defining character, if you know what I mean
 

Zapp Branniglenn

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Looks like the OP missed a couple of things in regards to :4lucas:, unrelated to the shield changes:

D-Smash: Total frames reduced from 63 to 60.

D-air: Landing lag reduced from 24 frames to 21.

It's possible these were changed in 1.10 (I'm checking from my 1.08 footage, Lucas was one of the characters I didn't get around to recording for 1.10), but the 1.10 OP doesn't mention this either.
Those are 1.10 changes. And it's my bad that they weren't found. When 1.10 dropped, I wasn't prepared for it, and hadn't inputted my DLC codes for my 3DS version of the game, which I was using as pre-patch reference that time. And you can't input DLC codes for characters without updating the game. Thus, all four DLC characters went uncombed outside of data mining.

Thanks for the assistance on counting my findings. I wouldn't be able to prove any of that without your help. I'm going to hold off on updating my Wii u a little longer. I may still be able to interpret the mystery changes to characters in the data.
 

Screamin_Sam

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I'm pretty sure (but not positive) all shield breakers got the same nerf to compensate for the longer shield stun. But I do agree that Marth seriously needs to be reworked.
 

Vipermoon

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I'm pretty sure (but not positive) all shield breakers got the same nerf to compensate for the longer shield stun. But I do agree that Marth seriously needs to be reworked.
Not all. Just Marth, DK, Sheik's custom needles, and get-up attacks. Also the reason was just to nerf them. It does not compensate for shield stun. They are two different things.
 

Haze~

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Plottwist: Sakurai adding more shieldstun and thus making moves safer on shield he's not going to improve framedata anymore Kappa
 

Zapp Branniglenn

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I know that we already sorted out that it's the forward and back rolls of characters that had invulnerability changed. But I checked all the characters and found Metaknight with designated changes to both rolls, and his airdodge. @Dantarion can you make sense of this?

Edit: It looks like the the same information as with other characters, but with some animation/aesthetic difference on forward and back rolls. In other words, probably nothing.
 
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Erimir

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So, the "patch notes" (if you wanna call them that) for the impending 1.1.2 patch say that it will:

  • Fix the issue in which Diddy Kong becomes intangible to grab attacks after releasing the shield while taking damage from multi-hit attacks.
  • Adjustments will also be made to make for a more pleasant gaming experience.
So... expected further character balancing or nah?
 
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