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Making Kirby Viable

Mega-Spider

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 16, 2015
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955
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San Antonio, Texas
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MegaSonic3
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Hey guys. I know Kirby isn't considered that good in Smash 4, but after watching this video here:
I've been thinking "How could Kirby be made to be viable?" I know a lot of you are extremely pessimistic (overly pessimistic at that), but because I don't like giving up, I've decided to have my own hand at making Kirby viable. Note that this is my opinion, so if you disagree with me, please respectfully give your own suggestions.

So before we talk about Kirby's flaws, let's talk about his strengths first:
- Solid combo game from early to mid percentages thanks to U-Tilt, and F-Throw
- Pretty good frame data
- Crouch can avoid several moves
- Copy Abilities grant Kirby various options, with some match ups becoming in his favor once he gets them (:4shulk: and :4samus: come to mind)
- Decent edge guarding game and off stage game thanks to multiple jumps
- Floaty nature can escape some combos easier than most characters (:4mario:'s D-Throw to U-Tilt for example)
- Isn't too bad at killing, especially with U-Throw being a great kill option on stages like Smashville

So as well can see, Kirby has a good amount of good traits going for him. However, he does have some very noticeable issues:
- Bad approach options; some of the worst in the game. This means that if Kirby's behind, he's going to have to approach, and since his approach is so linear, making a comeback is very difficult
- While Kirby's ground mobility is average at best, his aerial mobility is very poor, making landing extremely difficult, and makes Kirby prone to being edge guarded and spiked
- Low survivability, but that's a trait that Kirby's always had and some really good characters have (:4fox: and :4mewtwo: for example)
- Kirby's range is also pretty bad, which adds to his poor approach issue
- Outside of Inhale, Kirby's specials are incredibly situational at best, and pretty bad at worst
- Frame data on aerials could be better

Yeah... that doesn't sound pleasant, now does it? Well, after taking time to think about how I would change Kirby, I think I've come up with some solutions. The goal is to focus on Kirby's weaknesses while not fundamentally changing him.

Let's start with Kirby's aerials. While not bad moves, the main issue with all of them is that they come out too slow to be really effective. Here's how I would change them:
U-Air: Have it come out on frame 5 and end on frame 10 (as opposed to frame 10-15), which can make it better at juggling characters in the air, and maybe it can be used to combo in a similar way that :4falcon:'s does.
F-Air: Hit 1 (frame 6-7 instead of 10-11) Hit 2 (frame 13-14 instead of 17-18) Hit 3 (frame 20-21 instead of 25-26). This could make F-Air a better poking tool.
B-Air: This move's good as is.
N-Air: Earliest (frame 4-5 instead of 10-11) Early (frame 6-9 instead of 12-15) Normal (frame 10-14 instead of 16-20) Late (frame 15-28 instead of 21-34). This one could use some adjusting, but that move should really come out way faster than it actually does.
D-Air: Come out slightly faster than Jigglypuff's D-Air (frame 4-5, 7-8, 10-11, 13-14, 16-17, with the last hit being at frame 20). The landing is kept at frame 1-3. Original D-Air frame data Hits 1-5 (18-19, 21-22, 24-25, 27-28, 30-31) Hit 6 (34)

Kirby's airspeed is probably the biggest buff he can receive aside the changes to his aerial frame data. I would change Kirby's airspeed from 0.8 to 0.9588 (Ness) or 0.96 (Fox). This could help Kirby be less vulnerable off stage and when landing. Again, if anyone thinks it could be faster, please suggest. Kirby's supposed to be slow in the air, so this is the fastest I would make him.

I wouldn't change Kirby's weight. 79's a decent number for him, though maybe he could be 80 at highest.

As for Kirby's specials:
Inhale: Change from frame 14 to frame 9
Final Cutter Hit 1: Change from frame 23-24 to frame 12-13
Final Cutter Hit 2 (Early): Change from frame 41-49 to 30-38
Final Cutter Hit 2 (Late): Change from frame 50 to frame 39
Final Cutter (Projectile): Change BKB from 60 to 70 and KBG to 30 (making it a more threatening projectile)
I'd keep Hammer Flip the same, though I would like to have Hammer Bash again. I miss that thing.
Stone would also be the same overall, though I would increase the amount of shield damage it does to make it a near instant shield break.

Those are about the changes I would give Kirby. I'm not the most knowledgeable on this kind of stuff, and believe me, if this ends up being bad, I apologize in advance. I just wanted to give ideas on how I would change Kirby, seeing as how you guys are more interested in discussing what doesn't work instead of discussing how to make Kirby viable. Once again, post your own suggestions here.
 

KenMeister

Smash Lord
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Oct 9, 2014
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KenMeister
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Do we really need another wishlist thread? There's more than enough of these on here, and just adding another isn't doing anything worthwhile. Kirby is garbage and will forever be utter trash, either play the damn game or drop the character.
 

Wintermelon43

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 13, 2015
Messages
2,767
Low Mid Tier isn't garbage or utter trash. I'm not saying he's good, but that's a complete exaggeration.
 

Mega-Spider

Smash Ace
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Do we really need another wishlist thread? There's more than enough of these on here, and just adding another isn't doing anything worthwhile. Kirby is garbage and will forever be utter trash, either play the damn game or drop the character.
I find it funny that all you seem to be is just denounce anyone who doesn't think Kirby is a trainwreck. If you're so pessimistic, why don't you drop the character and find someone else? You'd certainly make yourself a lot more useful by leaving this community than just being a walking exaggerator who couldn't be bothered to contribute in any way.
 

KenMeister

Smash Lord
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KenMeister
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I find it funny that all you seem to be is just denounce anyone who doesn't think Kirby is a trainwreck. If you're so pessimistic, why don't you drop the character and find someone else? You'd certainly make yourself a lot more useful by leaving this community than just being a walking exaggerator who couldn't be bothered to contribute in any way.
My point is that wishlist threads like this are literally the only thing that go on here. We get it, Kirby sucks, crying over spilt milk isn't going to solve anything, I'd much rather see revived social discussion and combo guides, etc rather than a million more wishlist threads, which we really don't need any more of at this rate. =\
 
Last edited:

Mazdamaxsti

Smash Lord
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Nov 4, 2014
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not brawl
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My point is that wishlist threads like this are literally the only thing that go on here. We get it, Kirby sucks, crying over spilt milk isn't going to solve anything, I'd much rather see revived social discussion and combo guides, etc rather than a million more wishlist threads, which we really don't need any more of at this rate. =\
Sorry Ken, but this isn't a wish list thread. It's a thread discussing how Kirby could be made viable. You could've read the post and thought about it instead of making statements that don't make sense.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

Old rivalries live on!
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TPitch5
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The biggest problem that Kirby has is just how bad his air speed is. Ironically, in Brawl, his air speed was better than Meta Knight's air speed.

Also, Kirby has fewer recovery options than Meta Knight, and Final Cutter doesn't exactly help his horizontal mobility.

On my end, I did raise Kirby's air speed to 1.04, but some might find that value to be a bit too much for him.
 
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