Making an Advanced How-to-Sonic tutorial vid

[SonicX580]

When you turn on your wii, go to to your message board, then slect your adress book. You should be able to find your wii code there.

Okay thanks Napilopez.

 

[darkNES386]

amaziingggg.

Though, next time you try to do that, have Kirby hang on the ledge or something. `__`; running through characters can slow them down.

and... the tags..

Smart ideas, no reason why everything can't be in replay format where tags aren't visible right? Is there a way to ensure tags don't turn on?

So 55-57 Frames in one go? Amazing.
Oh, and music choice was great. Isn't that "Warning: Echidnas May Eat Your Brain", from Project Chaos, right? (AKA Knuckles theme in Sonic 3)

"Caution" but right none the less.

Great work dnes.

I have a bit of time tonight to record some vids. I'm going to get proof of invincy frames in Sonic's Up-smash, and maybe some spacing examples of jabs/Dtilt vs. G&W's Dtilt.

Any other ideas of things I should capture? I can't do frame-perfect stuff, yet.

I'm up for whatever, I really just threw this together to demonstrate how I can show frames, I kinda made it go through them fast... I can do it at a slower rate... I just didn't want 20 seconds of Sonic getting across the stage... plus it worked better with the music selection

Well yeah it has some of Sonic Techs but I don't know if it's up to your guys standards.

I'll post the wii code and brawl code of where I am right now... if anyone wants to send me replays just let me know. It will probably take a day for the whole thing to happen so start with entering mine and then I'll enter yours as soon as I can.

::goes to get wii/brawl codes::

I'm pretty sure you need both to exchange replays... right?

Infy it's not hard at all to break it down by frames, just follow that thread I showed before.

6093.4162.7956.3873 - Wii

4296.3612.1228 - dNES 2

 

[Tenki]

By tags, I meant the Youtube tags, Sonic Final Destination, and not having Gaming as a category.

That one related video...

...hurt me.

 

[darkNES386]

By tags, I meant the Youtube tags, Sonic Final Destination, and not having Gaming as a category.

That one related video...

...hurt me.

Understood Tenki, I hope you don't have any hard feelings towards me

6093.4162.7956.3873 - Wii

4296.3612.1228 - dNES 2

 

[darkNES386]

So going off that edited first post of Infzy's... what do we want the first video to have in it?

 

[infomon]

Hmm. Well, as the dust settles on this Doop Walking crazyness, it might be a good time to put together some demonstrations of Sonic's ground movement, at the least. Our dashdance/foxtrot/grind/doopwalk/run/slow-run/"infinite-run", + shield-cancels, SD/SC-cancels, etc.

Thoughts?

 

[Camalange]

You know infzy, the matches we had today got me thinkin that we should have a list of all the different things Sonic can wall jump off of. It sounds stupid, "Uh, he jumps off any wall" but with all of Sonic's different recovery options, wouldn't it be awesome to know all of the ridiculous places Sonic can wall jump off of? Like, I didn't even think to do jump around in that hole underneath Frigate Orpheon. Recovery mindgames?

 

[infomon]

lololol, that was too good.

But wall-jumping under Frigate Orpheon is... completely useless... there's no way that you should end up under there like that lol, stalling is banned, and you're pretty doomed down there...

Wall-jumping is under-used IMO, we had some hilarious wall-jump shinnanigans on Yoshi's Island, but that's one of the only places where wall-jumps are practical. Well, FD and Battlefield are obvious other options, but don't have nearly the extent of wall-jump-game depth as YI.

What other places are there? JJ and Lylat both have edges where wall-jumps can happen unexpected but are very hard to plan for (the instant-walljump tech might be useable on them, I've never tried). I suppose arbitrary places on like, Rainbow Cruise and other strange stages.

 

[Camalange]

The opening of Castle Siege had some good jump spots, but your right though. YI is definitely the best for wall jump shiz. Maybe we don't need that list, but we should at least make a note to that in the video.

 

[infomon]

Yeah, walljumping stuff is definitely worth talking about, and I'm glad our matches got some good footage of it, both legitimate and silly. There were definitely times when I edgehogged your up-B, but I jumped off the edge too early so you could walljump and then grab it lol. And other such walljump uses.

 

[~TBS~]

i was just playing cat, and he tried to hedgehog me, and i walljump to footstool jump. too good.

 

[infomon]

^^ yeah, I want vids of that, if you have 'em. It's another tech that ppl aren't used to when they try out Sonic, since most chars can't footstool after their up-B. Definitely it should be shown in the video.

 

[~TBS~]

sorry, i couldn't get the replays. and cat probably has it...

 

[Camalange]

Another funny FSJ shenanigan is while recovering with SideB, try to float right above your opponent, connect with the SC and FSJ. It kills people with bad recoveries below the stage.

 

[aeghrur]

FSJ?
Fast spin jump?
Full spin jump?
what?

 

[infomon]

^^ yeah, one of the Sonic combo vids does that a few times lolol, it always amused me.

Edit: footstool jump

 

[aeghrur]

Oh, lmao. Duh. >_<

 

[darkNES386]

I like the idea of discussing the various ground movements of Sonic. That would go along with showcasing Sonic's ground speed. Obviously we want to address all of Sonic's options out of foxtrots and such.
For example...

Demonstration 1
Spin Dash > Shield Cancel > Grab
Acknowledge that sure every character can shield grab. However...

Demonstration 2
Retreating Fox Trot (to retreat some fair attack such as Marth's) > SpinDash Reversal > Shield Cancel > Grab/punish
This demonstrates that Sonic has amazing spacing skills if applied properly.

.... we could choose to go on with other applications for the spin dash/spin dash shield cancel such as for when dealing with campy/dodge happy opponents who like to spot dodge.

Or we could go in the same direction with spacing and show how the ASC shield cancel slides Sonic forwards slightly. Due to the volume of possible topics, I think it's most important that we focus on specific moves (side B) and that way concepts (such as spacing or punishing)... will be revealed from the move's uses.

So yeah... do we go with ground movements... or specific moves and their applications?

 

[SonicX580]

Hey Infzy did you get some of my replays?

 

[~TBS~]

1.yeah, i agree with darkNES. 2.not too many people use the SDSC and the foxtrot like that...
3.thats a very good point. 4. all in one vid, right?

 

[darkNES386]

1.yeah, i agree with darkNES. 2.not too many people use the SDSC and the foxtrot like that...
3.thats a very good point. 4. all in one vid, right?

Obviously this would be easiest if we make smaller segments and then expand into additional videos as needed. Sorta like a part 1. Footwork. So maybe we shouldn't focus on specific moves as much as on concepts such as spacing. We just want to make sure we don't miss anything.

I'll throw an example together and upload it soon.

 

[SonicX580]

Infzy when can you post my replays?

 

[~TBS~]

Obviously this would be easiest if we make smaller segments and then expand into additional videos as needed. Sorta like a part 1. Footwork. So maybe we shouldn't focus on specific moves as much as on concepts such as spacing. We just want to make sure we don't miss anything.

I'll throw an example together and upload it soon.

yay! *eagerly awaits vids*
this should clear up any holes in anyones gameplay.

 

[infomon]

dNes, great ideas about the footwork, using retreating foxtrot SDSC..... it's probably too early to decide how a large multi-part video should be arranged. I think let's just take "snippet" ideas like that, put them together, eventually we'll have a good collection of interesting aspects of Sonic's gameplay, and it might make more sense at that point in time how it should be arranged. Alternatively, we might hit a roadblock of making snippets, where we realize we need direction, lulz.... so iunno.

Put together what you have in mind and post here, I'll be doing the same with my new vids vs. Camalange, CUsmasher, and I guess SonicX580's stuff too.

SonicX580: I'll check my wii tmrw morning to see if I got the replays, it should have worked lol, I'll be recording/uploading stuff tmrw as well. I'm in bed now lol.

 

[SonicX580]

Okay Infzy later.

 

[darkNES386]

Sounds good Infzy.

Remember everyone you can send me replay too. Just add what's below and be sure to let me know so I can do the same:

6093.4162.7956.3873 - Wii

4296.3612.1228 - dNES 2

 

[SuSa]

You should show the dthrow/bthrow tech-chasing as well.... its how I play my Sonic is being a speed grab ***** with aerials.

I can't stand side-B or down-B because whenever I want to jump I don't xD rofl...

tl;dr

I'm to slow for Sonic

 

[Camalange]

You should show the dthrow/bthrow tech-chasing as well.... its how I play my Sonic is being a speed grab ***** with aerials.

I can't stand side-B or down-B because whenever I want to jump I don't xD rofl...

tl;dr

I'm to slow for Sonic

I like this idea, because I too am I grab/pummel/throw wh*re. We can list all the different options out of Sonics throws. It's a big part of his game.

YOU'RE TOO SLOW!

 

[infomon]

I can't stand side-B or down-B because whenever I want to jump I don't xD rofl...

This is exactly why we should also demonstrate in very clear detail, the mechanics of the spindash jump data. It's not something I fully understood until like yesterday, lol.

And yeah, definitely the tech-chase stuff. I'll need help with that, since I'm not so good at it lol; anyone wanna give a run-down of what we'd demonstrate (and/or a full write-up/storyboard)?

 

[Tenki]

I like this idea, because I too am I grab/pummel/throw wh*re. We can list all the different options out of Sonics throws. It's a big part of his game.

YOU'RE TOO SLOW!

Whattdya think the pop quiz thread was for

 

[infomon]

^^ that was a great thread, btw. I'd never even thought of some of the options out of an up-throw at low percents, before.

Last night, Camalange got me with a 0% Up-throw > Up-smash combo, and I was like... owww wtflol, I forgot Tenki's thread. I still don't up-throw > grab them again as they fall "combo" as much as I should, lawl.

 

[Tenki]

lol. I usually go for the U-throw> buffered B-air, seeing as it raises the combo meter for most characters. I usually suck at buffering inputs after the fastfall during B-air's landing lag though.

 

[Camalange]

Whattdya think the pop quiz thread was for

O YEAH! We should bring that back. Hell, I'm finding that and reviving that.

^^ that was a great thread, btw. I'd never even thought of some of the options out of an up-throw at low percents, before.

Last night, Camalange got me with a 0% Up-throw > Up-smash combo, and I was like... owww wtflol, I forgot Tenki's thread. I still don't up-throw > grab them again as they fall "combo" as much as I should, lawl.

Yeah, I'm pretty win.
I hardly can ever get that double grab to work though...but it's very satisfying when it works.

 

[darkNES386]

Here's what I have right now:

Ground Game
-Sonic's speed across FD (Frames) to show just how fast he is
-Sonic chasing someone after a bair > a second short hop bair after running past them > catching up to them again and starting a jab-lock until an fsmash right before the edge (compliments of puffball against a wifi friend of ours this summer)
^I even have a line that grows and shrinks between the toon link and Sonic to show just how quickly he closes the distance.

-shield grab out of a neutral spin dash
-foxtrot retreat > reverse spin dash > shield cancel > grab (show casing something more unique to Sonic
-Sonic running > b reversal > shield cancel showing how he can turn on a dime
....

What else sounds like it goes along with these?

 

[Espy Rose]

Guys, I'd like to say that I got a dazzle video recording device. I am now able to record and upload stuffz.

If possible, when/if this thing starts up, I could help with just some video footage, or something of that like.

 

[darkNES386]

Guys, I'd like to say that I got a dazzle video recording device. I am now able to record and upload stuffz.

If possible, when/if this thing starts up, I could help with just some video footage, or something of that like.

That's awesome, welcome to the club.

 

[infomon]

Ground Game
-Sonic's speed across FD (Frames) to show just how fast he is
-Sonic chasing someone after a bair > a second short hop bair after running past them > catching up to them again and starting a jab-lock until an fsmash right before the edge (compliments of puffball against a wifi friend of ours this summer)
^I even have a line that grows and shrinks between the toon link and Sonic to show just how quickly he closes the distance.

-shield grab out of a neutral spin dash
-foxtrot retreat > reverse spin dash > shield cancel > grab (show casing something more unique to Sonic
-Sonic running > b reversal > shield cancel showing how he can turn on a dime
....

What else sounds like it goes along with these?

That all sounds awesome. I can demo/explain grinding, I dunno about all those crazy methods for pivoting though. Whatever doop-walking stuff Tenki says is actually useful, might belong here. Also, down-B out of a run, maybe.

Ehh, I'll try to work on this project some on Monday or so. It sounds like we can start refining the storyboard a bit, and I've got footage to root through for useful demos.

 

[darkNES386]

I would feel better about this project if I saw more people posting in this thread.

 

[Tenki]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=UuXBIYnMuTE

I wanna see how much of a boost Sonic gets with his down-B/side-B. :[

Make a video for that.

ex:
F-air > side-B
F-air > fastfall > double jump?

vs
side-B
down-B

I wanna see it done at one of those max-range levels.

 

[infomon]

Yeah. I cover it a bit at 5:00 in this one:
[How to Recover, after DI: momentum-cancelling, etc.]

But it's blurry, and it's done at 1x so it's hard to see what happens. I'd always meant to do a Sonic-specific how-to-recover video.... I'll see if I have time for that tomorrow.

The side-B and down-B do give a boost, but it's a small one{*}, and the start-up lag frames of side-B and down-B are both very fast with respect to most other specials I've seen that actually help for recovery. So Sonic is on the better side of favourable-recovery-mechanics. Side-B is easier to pull off, but gives you a bit extra height compared to down-B, which is even safer vertically but can be hard to time the release to be as fast as possible. Both options are better than using our jump.


{*}I'm not sure if the size of these "extra boosts" are based on the properties of the Jump or Special that's used, or if it's just proportional to the amount of knockback that remains. Here's one for the SmashLab, I guess.