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Make Your Move 8: -TOP 50 POSTED-

Junahu

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 15, 2005
Messages
899
Location
Shropshire Slasher
"So I think the message of the set is that just because something doesn't go into heavy detail it doesn't necessarily mean there's no playstyle or that the moves don't work together."

"I interpreted it the opposite way. That even if there's a solid idea behind a set, that if you express it in such an obfuscating manner, it doesn't matter because you can't portray it to the audience"

"When you don't have the context, it's just... a mess. However golden the ideas are."

"I still love Skeleton despite that (however fitting) bare bones presentation, and if a presentation tries to involve itself too heavily into the moveset it more often than not just gets in the way"
Each one of you brought your individual perspectives to bear on my experiment, and in an attempt to understand it, offered your own interpretations on its meaning. I can reveal, to the chagrin of everyone who took the time to comment, that I had no particular message to impart, other than that which everyone has already demonstrated; that two people can look at the same set, and see two different things.

It's also nice how, because of who I am, and the fact I claimed as such, people gave the set a certain value that never really existed.

Of course, everyone's interpretations are still valid, and they are good points.
  • Good ideas can exist even when they aren't presented to the reader at all
  • Presenting an idea well is potentially worth more than the idea itself
  • Without proper characterisation and context, you haven't presented your ideas at all. Rather, you've simply dictated them to the reader.
  • Overpresenting an idea can be just as detrimental as underpresenting it


Mii:
I can sympathise with how this set is trying something different, and the last thing I want to do is chew you out for it and prove myself a hypocrite... but that's exactly what I'm going to do anyway, go figure...

The main problem here, and this is something that hasn't been a problem with any moveset since MYM4, is that this set is starved of detail. The preset attacks are, of course, fine. But handwaving the stats away as simply "whatever the player is" and the attacks as "whatever the player does" makes it feel like only half a set.
What really makes it all absurd, is how the preset attacks have details like damage% and distance when, for all the reader knows, any player could potentially throw a lagless punch stronger than these attacks

It's hard to look at this as anything other than a suggestion of what a Mii set could be. It's a curious little set, certainly, but it lacks specification. And that's an vital thing when the set's modus operandum involves such a ill defined input mechanism as a motion camera.
 

Hyper_Ridley

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 21, 2007
Messages
2,288
Location
Hippo Island
Mii set makes me lol, though everyone would just coppy Captain Falcon's moves so he ends up as another Falcon clone.

RTS Army is pretty clever, and it feels like a simplified version of Rocket Executive Hugo that might be possible to play in tournies in less than 3 years, lol. You're detail isn't too bad and you'll easily improve with time, though I'll say that the main thing to work on adding is how fast/slow the move is.
 

darth meanie

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
452
RTS Army

The RTS Army takes the same idea that Rocket Executive Hugo took in a different direction, building up an army to conquer with. It's a very cool idea, and one that runs with the normal conventions of Real Time Strategy Games. While it maintains some of the normal conventions; buildings that produce units, a mouse cursor, and so on, it doesn't really bring the tactics of an RTS with it.

What I mean by that is, that while troops and tanks may be controlled en masse, the playstyle doesn't match it. It ends up just being controlling a bunch of units at once. What would have been more interesting would be if you could've better established the idea of entrenching and building a base, or different tactics, instead of making it into mostly rushing down with various units. You can only command all units to go to one place at once, rather than commanding them separately, which limits a lot of tactical options.

That's not to say that this isn't a very strong improvement since Joker, and a much more ambitious moveset. I would just encourage you to think about how you want your moveset to play, rather than just the moves that make it up. The playstyle you wrote looks very fun, but I don't think what you wrote matches what you were trying to build.

The moveset could also use a bit of cleaning up; it was adrift with spelling errors (it's spelled Cursor, not Curser) and some difficult to read organization, but those are mostly clean up issues that don't reflect as much on the moveset itself.

All in all, this is a nice step up from you, and I look forward to your next set.


Mii

Wow GW. This moveset is very nostalgic. You've brought your moves straight out of the playbook from Make Your Move 4, with more random props than Waluigi, and the level of detail from Make Your Move 2, with as many moves as the average set from Make Your Move 1!

For some one who's been here this long, this is really terrible. I understand it's a one-day set, but you handwaved away 75% of the detail, and could barely put enough in for the rest of the moveset. Almost every single move you did make was a random prop pulled from the various Mii games, most used as projectiles. Even excusing the source material, it's clear that you put far less effort into this set than I'm putting into this comment.

I'll accept Junahu's notion that this is decent, as far as a 'vague idea of what a Mii would look like in Brawl', but it's not a moveset. Not by any means.
 

Rychu

Thane of Smashville
Joined
Jul 5, 2010
Messages
810
3DS FC
1908-0105-4965
RTS Army

The RTS Army takes the same idea that Rocket Executive Hugo took in a different direction, building up an army to conquer with. It's a very cool idea, and one that runs with the normal conventions of Real Time Strategy Games. While it maintains some of the normal conventions; buildings that produce units, a mouse cursor, and so on, it doesn't really bring the tactics of an RTS with it.

What I mean by that is, that while troops and tanks may be controlled en masse, the playstyle doesn't match it. It ends up just being controlling a bunch of units at once. What would have been more interesting would be if you could've better established the idea of entrenching and building a base, or different tactics, instead of making it into mostly rushing down with various units. You can only command all units to go to one place at once, rather than commanding them separately, which limits a lot of tactical options.

That's not to say that this isn't a very strong improvement since Joker, and a much more ambitious moveset. I would just encourage you to think about how you want your moveset to play, rather than just the moves that make it up. The playstyle you wrote looks very fun, but I don't think what you wrote matches what you were trying to build.

The moveset could also use a bit of cleaning up; it was adrift with spelling errors (it's spelled Cursor, not Curser) and some difficult to read organization, but those are mostly clean up issues that don't reflect as much on the moveset itself.

All in all, this is a nice step up from you, and I look forward to your next set.


First, i'd like to thank you for taking the time to read and comment on this set. I'm glad that people think this is a step up.

Let me start by saying that spelling is not a strong point for me, I'll go back and fix up some errors.
I did get the "multiple character" idea from Hugo, though i tried to make it different. Although, the thought of controlling it the way you described it never crossed my mind.
This moveset was more or less an experiment for me to see if I could make an un-smash moveset, while keeping the conventions of smash in mind. I DO plan on remaking (or rather, reimagining) this set in the next MYM (whenever that may be), and make it more like an in-smash RTS game. The reason I didn't go all-out RTS is because, well, i didnt know if I could pull it off.
Anyway, again, thanks for the time and positive comments.


Edit:WOW how did that happen?
 

darth meanie

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
452
This moveset was more or less an experiment for me to see if I could make an un-smash moveset, while keeping the conventions of smash in mind. I DO plan on remaking (or rather, reimagining) this set in the next MYM (whenever that may be), and make it more like an in-smash RTS game. The reason I didn't go all-out RTS is because, well, i didnt know if I could pull it off.
Anyway, again, thanks for the time and positive comments.
When I was starting out as a MYMer, I made a few movesets where I wasn't able to fully pull off the concepts either, and have remade a couple of them since then; specifically, Abomasnow and Magmortar. So I wish you luck if you remake this in the future.
 

MarthTrinity

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 9, 2007
Messages
1,954
Location
The Cosmos Beneath Rosalina's Skirt
I figure the set has enough golden concepts (something about impaling your rock form wth knives to prod it into rolling forward once you've dealt enough damage by pelting them with knives from rainbow platforms?) that it'd be a big deal if you posted it with requisite detail, description, presentation, etc. What makes this set better or worse than your average Junahu set?
I just thought I should state that Knives is a 17 year old Asian girl and not actually knives. That is all (chew)...also, check out the Sunday Recap and all that good stuff.
 

KingK.Rool

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 26, 2005
Messages
1,810
I just thought I should state that Knives is a 17 year old Asian girl and not actually knives. That is all (chew)...also, check out the Sunday Recap and all that good stuff.
How lame (crs)

But it just goes further toward proving Junahu's point about context (or rather, the point I projected onto Junahu so zealously).

Yeah Rool, it's a set for Scott Pilgrim...I thought you were really into movie.....OWAIT. Yous till hate pixar dont you? :mad:
I'm into movie that looks remotely good. I have no idea who this Scott Pilgrim character is - some sort of video game superhero? - and don't plan to find out. ;)
 

KingK.Rool

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 26, 2005
Messages
1,810
you hate pixar, your opinion is invalid.
Bah. I had a sarcastic reply, but never mind. No sense in cluttering up the thread.

By the way, I'm glad you enjoyed Skeleton so much, Warlord, with his bare-bones presentation. I was a bit offended when people continued to just say "good for a newcomer set" when they found out that it wasn't a newcomer set at all
 

majora_787

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 23, 2007
Messages
6,122
Location
Texas
Just askin', how long do I have left to get my moveset in? It's kinda done... I mean, sorta. I need to do all the A attacks now, then I should be done. Maybe. I hope. =P
 

majora_787

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 23, 2007
Messages
6,122
Location
Texas
I think I can finish it up in two months. Alright, then. I'm seriously gonna do it then! Woo!
 

Rychu

Thane of Smashville
Joined
Jul 5, 2010
Messages
810
3DS FC
1908-0105-4965
What character you making a set for?
 

Monkey D. AWESOME

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 28, 2010
Messages
143
Location
Coming to terms with having two people in my mind
Since the Street Fighter/Tekken movement apparently failed, here's my attempt to liven up the thread:

DRAGON BALL Z MOVEMENT

Yeah, it's pretty self-explanatory.

Dragon Ball Z is one of the most influential anime of all time, and the fact that MYM has underrepresented it so much is a crime. I intend to fix that. The rules are simple: You just place dibs on a DBZ character on the chat (or PM me), then make a set for them. Characters from GT are also accepted.
 

n88

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 10, 2008
Messages
1,527
Huh. I leave for a few days and this is what happens? Oh well, at least the thread isn't locked.

. . .It's nice to see that you're trying to boost activity in thread, MDA, but a DBZ movement may be ill-advised. In order for a movement to be successful, it needs to have a theme with near-universal support from MYM, and I don't believe DBZ has that. I, personally, have no interest whatsoever in DBZ, and am unable to contribute to the movement, really.

Also, I may try to make a one-day moveset today, if only so MT has a little more to talk about in his Recap.
 

MarthTrinity

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 9, 2007
Messages
1,954
Location
The Cosmos Beneath Rosalina's Skirt
First off I'd really like to apologize for my huge lack of comments. As previously mentioned, my personal computer broke before I left for vacation and I've only been able to use the family computer rather randomly. I sincerely apologize for my lack of activity as of late but with limited computer access and a really unreliable internet, getting online has been quite a pain in the *** to say the least. Regardless, I'm gonna post some comments with the internet time I do have today, sorry if you've been waiting for one, I'm just going off of sets I've read recently.
______________________

Mii

Now...rumor on the street has it that GW claims this to be a joke set but I wonder if that's mostly to do with the huge amount of negative comments it got immediately after being posted. So I won't give it a huge comment in case it -IS- a joke set but I don't hate it as much as DM seemed to do with his incredibly negative comment...Mii is a pretty farfetched idea admittedly using technology we don't really have and it certainly stretches Brawl a fair way...but it's a set that doesn't reaaaally work as it should.

A Mii set with props is a given. Without props it's just well...it's just a blank person more or less. Wii Sports stuff is the most logical thing to give a Mii and that's exactly what you did, you cemented it as a Mii instead of just a random blob with your stats tacked onto it. As minimal as it may sound, I dunno how much I like the fact that you labeled each attack as a Smash or something like that...a set using this concept should just throw out some ideas you can use instead of telling you "This is how you play." With the concept you have, it advocates creativity from the player to do something that would fit the situation. While that'd obviously make the set more farfetched, it'd fit a bit more to have suggestions instead of set inputs. Regardless, it's a fun little read serious or not.

RTS Army

As DM mentioned (and I hate to repeat so I apologize), a quick run of spell check would make this set a lot clearer and easier to read.

With that in mind...ZOMG! I'm using the Wiimote for some (silly) reason, now I can't play as RTS Army! Now I know a whoooole lot of people don't use the Wiimote alone, it's still best to make a character who can be played with any controller setup just in case. Or maybe...what happens if you're playing on a scrolling stage like Rumble Falls? You lose instantly as your buildings get swept away and only your helicopter can "jump".

And now onto the moveset itself. I may have missed it or simply forgot about it but...what're your other troops doing while you're controlling one group of them? Do they become computer controlled or simply sit there doing nothing? As DM also stated (again, I hate repeating so I apologize) it feels more like you're controlling bits and pieces rather than the entire army at once. The fact that each section has such a limited amount of moves kind of cuts down on the set a little too. Also, I can't really figure out if the set is insanely overpowered or insanely underpowered...while that'd possibly be a good thing sometimes, it's more due to questionable detail here. Can you interrupt the building of a building? If so, RTS army is easily beaten considering you only need to destroy their buildings and paperweight units. If they can't though, RTS Army is essentially invincible as the cursor can just make a new building everytime one gets knocked down.

Overall, it does feel a bit too much like you tried porting an RTS game into Brawl instead of weaving them together. However, you are thinking of unique things to do in MYM which is always welcome, I apologize for the third time (
starting to sound like Meadow here
) for being negative here...but the execution doesn't support the ideas you have here sadly.

___________

Will edit this later with some more comments.

Also, you may have noticed I'm not doing the Pokemon anymore...when my old computer stopped working, I lost all progress on Slowbro who I was counting down to soooo...yeah...
 

Rychu

Thane of Smashville
Joined
Jul 5, 2010
Messages
810
3DS FC
1908-0105-4965
Comments(too lazy to quote as im going to a concert in a few minutes)

Yeah, i'm not so good with teh spellzing, but next time(if i get it done in time) i'll try todo a better spell check on it.

The whole movement thing, yeah, your only controlling one portion at once. I guess i didnt make that clear enough, and I apologize. My idea was to have it be so that you can only move one section at a time, and with a press of one of that portions attack button, you switch controlling each unit.

As for the buildings, I thought that it'd be that they are essentially invincible while building, then after their done they get their "health". Thats why i put the insane amount of time it takes each building to build and troops to respawn.

As for the other issues, I made the set with a proffessional mindset, that being that most players would use the GC controller and not play on moving stages. I also apologize for the detail level, but as a (lame) excuse i'll just say it looked like alot on paper.

And no need to apologize for negetivity, I just see it as constructive critizism


And i also just noticed the spellcheck button, so i'll use that next time :p
 

BKupa666

Barnacled Boss
Moderator
Joined
Aug 12, 2008
Messages
7,788
Location
Toxic Tower
Mr. Luggs



Mr. Luggs is a thirty-year-old morbidly obese spirit, hailing from the underrated game Luigi's Mansion. Luggs possesses an ungodly appetite, as well as an apparent lack of intelligence; it's said that he actually ate himself to death. Nevertheless, Luggs spends his afterlife in the mansion's dining room, voraciously scarfing down all-you-can-eat buffets, which are served faithfully to him by two Waiter ghosts. He's essentially addicted to eating and eating and eating...and he gets quite a temper when his food is taken away.

Attached is a video of Luigi's encounter with the gluttonous Luggs, as well as a haunted playlist.


Statistics

Power: 10
Size: 10
Weight: 8.5
Aerial Movement: 5
Traction: 5
Fall Speed: 3.5
Jumps: 3
Movement: 2
Abilities: Hover

Mr. Luggs is a very floaty heavyweight; he floats idly off the ground, gliding to dash, and is surprisingly light for such a large character (although still quite hefty). He also shares Peach's ability to hover, although he moves much more slowly when doing so, and can remain afloat for approximately half the time Peach can. Luggs' power is consistently domineering, but his attack speed is quite volatile during matches. Read on to find out why...

Special Mechanic - Energy

Being the massive lard he is, Mr. Luggs needs to eat to keep his ticker ticking. Without food, Luggs loses his energy, and eventually becomes too tired to keep fighting. At the start of a match, Luggs has twenty seconds worth of energy at the start of a match; after ten seconds, a thought bubble appears over Luggs' head of a Waiter holding a tray, as he begins whimpering with increasing desperation.

When Luggs' energy runs out completely, he just collapses, losing all his will to continue on. Luggs is now essentially dead; although he's not technically KOed yet, he cannot move at all, his body acting like the corpse of a character KOed in stamina. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that Luggs needs to constantly replenish his energy throughout a match in order to win.


Specials

Neutral Special - Waiter Ghost
Luggs claps his hands, causing a Waiter ghost to appear in front of him, carrying a platter of ghost jelly (quite possibly laced with nicotine), over .2 second. Once the ghost has materialized, Luggs begins chowing down greedily, losing concentration on doing anything but shoveling food into his mouth with both hands. For as long as he's eating, Luggs will not lose any energy. Instead, Luggs heals 1% and gains three seconds of energy per each half second he eats. He can continue eating for as long as he wants (he has super armor while doing so); press B again and the Waiter vanishes, taking .75 second to do so, as Luggs scoops all the food he can from the disappearing tray. Luggs can move and jump while eating, the Waiter dutifully following and holding the food tray in front of him as he goes, but he is unable to attack at all.



Of course, foes will be aiming to interrupt his feast (and therefore, energy-boosting and healing) as soon as possible. If an opponent hits his Waiter, the Waiter will vanish with a frightful shriek, as Luggs roars in anguish. For as many seconds remaining he has energy, the lag on Luggs' attacks is halved, as he becomes relentlessly focused on destroying whoever dared interrupt his meal. After this time, Luggs collapses as usual. He is able to summon a Waiter immediately after his feast is interrupted, causing him to forget his fury (returning his attacks to their normal speed) and continue eating...but you now have the additional tempting option of going toe-to-toe with opponents while your powerful attacks are faster.

Luggs will often want to purposefully have his feeding interrupted once he has a good chunk of energy time, as his regular moveset, while powerful, is sluggish and near useless in heated battles. Luggs is much, much better off taking on characters while in a mindless rage. It's up to you how close to collapsing you want to push Luggs before retreating to summon a Waiter. Keep in mind that aggressive opponents pursuing Luggs may not give him much time to feast once he flees to do so.

Keeping enough energy stockpiled at all times to get Luggs through the match in one piece is key. You don't want to come too close to the end of your rope, before Luggs' massive arse gets grabbed or stunned, detaining him long enough to run him out of energy. One last detail: Luggs doesn't spoonfeed you a thought bubble to clue you in as to when he's about to poop out, when he's mindlessly enfuriated, so you'll have to moderate how much longer an irate Luggs can fight on your own.


Down Special - Darkness Ascending
Luggs shrouds himself in darkness, turning himself into a silhouette, ala Dark Link, with .2 second startup. While coated in the black of night, all enemy attacks pass right through Luggs, not damaging him in the slightest. The effort Luggs uses to maintain this form also causes him to lose energy at double the normal rate. By pressing B, Luggs returns to normal (rather than summoning food, meaning he can't stay invincible permanently).

Luggs can only use this power-up for very brief periods of time, lest he risk collapsing in exhaustion due to his energy depleting rapidly. While fighting at close range, this eliminates Luggs' need to dodge and avoid becoming combo fodder, allowing him to damage opponents more effectively (this is especially devastating if he's raging). If he does become combo fodder, Luggs can also surround himself in darkness to escape, before retaliating or spacing and feasting. Just to reiterate, though, Luggs can only use this move conservatively for just a few seconds at a time; over-reliance on darkness is a quick recipe for disaster.


Side Special - Comet Belch
Luggs rears back for .3 second, before expectorating a Soccer Ball-sized high priority ball of fire off the blast line at Fox's dash speed. He can aim the comet in any direction during the startup lag, giving the projectile some versatility. Only one comet can be present at a time, however. If the comet hits a character, rather than launching them, it will light their lower back on fire, causing them to run uncontrollably away from Luggs.

This lasts for approximately a second and a half before the fire is extinguished; the victim takes 12% during this time. Aerial characters hit by a comet enter a fiery footstool effect for the same amount of time. Luggs can scorch an opponent to force them to run away, lazily allowing them to do the work of creating the distance he wants between the two of you, in order to summon a Waiter and keep gorging. As an easter egg, if any flaming character (no, not just Marth) runs into a water attack, or into a body of water, the fire effect ends immediately.


Up Special - Huff and Puff
Luggs inhales for .45 second, before exhaling a character-wide stream of air that reaches out half of Battlefield's distance. The gluttonous ghost can hold his stream for up to three seconds, having about a second ending lag if he winds himself to this extent, but he can release the input anytime earlier to cancel the move for half the cooldown time. Luggs can aim the stream in any direction during the startup period, turning to face the screen if you aim it down or up, in order to not twist his head into an uncomfortable position.

Luggs is pushed in the direction opposite his stream, while opponents in the stream are pushed in its direction with strength not unlike Dedede's Inhale. This is essentially a double-spacer for Luggs, as he blows himself away from characters and blows them away from him, simultaneously. Luggs can also recover in pretty much any direction by aiming his stream and pushing himself back toward the stage. Make sure you aim your stream well; although this recovery is potentially amazing, Luggs cannot use this move more than once at a time in the air, leaving you little room for failure.


Grab-Game

Grab - Inhale
Luggs' grab is identical to Dedede's Neutral Special, but with slightly more startup lag. The spherical ghost isn't limited to moving with a victim inside him; Luggs can also use his regular moveset. Some of Luggs' attacks will damage the foe he's holding, racking some nice damage on them or stunning them inside the glutton...or both. Good for him, considering he has no throws...why would he want to throw up such tasty characters?

While an opponent is in his stomach, Luggs won't heal any damage or gain seconds of energy, but he won't lose any energy. Due to this, Luggs will find it advantageous to inhale an opponent he's looking to build damage on, allowing him to do so without the danger of tiring and collapsing. Of course, due to Luggs' lack of substance, characters can escape this grab more easily than most others. Although you can't KO them while they're inside you (suicide KOs are much too slow for Luggs), you'll want to use a damaging move to spit them out, rather than having them escape on their own. In addition, when Luggs is aiming to, you know, keep them in to build damage, he'll have to put his stunners to use to do so. A fatty, using stunners...imagine that.


Pummel - Belly Drum
Fat Bastard Luggs pounds his victim-stuffed belleh belly, damaging the swallowed character by 2%. This is quite a speedy pummel (even moreso if Luggs is enraged), in contrast with the tubby Scot from whom this pummel was stolen. A good Luggs strategy is to stun your grabbed opponent before whaling on them with his pummel to build some quick damage. Just be sure to refresh the stun after it wears off, to prevent them from escaping (unless you're ready to finish them off).

Basic Attacks

Jab - Belly Bulge
Luggs swings his stomach a slight distance in front of him over .5 second. His bouncy flab deals 8-9% and knockback that KOs around 135%. He can use this move in combination with F-Tilt to build rapid damage, especially if he's angry. It's also fairly difficult to counter; if a character attacks his belly, they'll receive 1.5 times the damage and knockback of their move, as his stomach bounces it back at them. In addition, if they run into his extended stomach, they take 10% and a low set knockback.

If you don't want to surround yourself in darkness when you're being comboed at close range, this counter-of-sorts is a good alternative. Your opponent will have to shield-grab Luggs if they wish to attack him out of this jab. If an opponent is inside Luggs as his stomach connects, or if another opponent runs into or attacks his stomach, they'll take the same damage as the outside character.


Dash Attack - Black Shadow
Luggs turns into his silhouette form, seen by using Down Special, before tucking into a ball and rolling forward half of Battlefield at Falcon's dash, passing through any obstacles in his path. Like with Down Special, Luggs cannot be attacked mid-move (he rolls for approximately one second), although he does have .3 second lag starting and ending.

Luggs loses energy at double the normal rate while rolling, but since he can't hold this move out, he always loses just two seconds of energy. Foes hit by his roll take 13-14% and enter a prone position. Luggs can either roll into an opponent to approach, punishing them as they rise, or roll away from an opponent to space from them. No change happens to Luggs when he uses this move while Down Special is in effect.


Forward Tilt - Slobber
Luggs' extends his long drooling tongue half a character width and licks upward. He has .25 second lag on both ends, and licks for approximately half a second. Characters hit by his coarse tongue take 10-11% and are coated in drool for the next five seconds. This doubles their tripping rate, in addition to allowing characters to escape their grab twice as easily. This could come in quite handy for Luggs, as if an opponent tries grabbing him as his energy gets low, he'll need to make a quick escape and flee to feed. Luggs cannot stack his drool effect by getting enraged and licking an opponent repeatedly, like a popsicle (although this can build great damage).

Down Tilt - Belly Flop
Luggs performs a very exaggerated belly flop motion on the ground in front of him, taking about .5 second to float up slightly before slamming down. He creates a small shockwave that reaches out a character width on both sides as he lands. Opponents who are caught under Luggs take 18% and knockback that KOs around 85%; if they hit the shockwave, they take 5% and trip.

Luggs can try to space from opponents after tripping them with the shockwave, but with his .55 second cooldown, he's less likely to make a clean escape than with his more blatant spacing moves. Opponents inside Luggs as he flops take the damage, as well as half a second of stun. He won't be able to flop multiple times in a row without the victim escaping, but he can always take advantage of the stun with a pummel or three.


Up Tilt - Stomach Trampoline
Luggs floats up a Mario, lying horizontally with his belly upward, taking .6 second to do so. He can hold this pose for as long as he wishes, canceling it with little lag by rolling. If an opponent drops onto his stomach, they take 9% for every Ganondorf they fell; they are bounced upwards, taking vertical knockback that KOs starting at 100% at one Ganondorf fallen, and decreasing by 10% for each Ganondorf fallen. Any victim inside Luggs takes the same damage as the fallen character, due to being bounced on. Luggs can use this as a great anti-air; due to him floating off the ground, he can also use this at close range to float out of the range of most tilts.

Smashes

Forward Smash - Ghastly Belch
Luggs rears back for .65 second, before leaning forward and unleashing an explosive belch, creating a cloud hitbox a character width in front of him. Characters hit by this cloud take a phenomenal 26-31%, as well as knockback that KOs around 70%. Although this is an incredible slow Smash normally, it becomes actually viable, and quite deadly, once Luggs is angry.

If an opponent is inside Luggs as he belches, they take the damage from the belch as they're spat up and forward half of Battlefield's distance. Characters who hit the projectile opponent take 12% and knockback that KOs at 120%. When you want a victim out of your body, this option is preferable to simply letting them escape, due to damaging them on their way out (you do risk them escaping during the startup lag, however).


Down Smash - Dizzy Pirouette
Luggs twists his body for .5 second, before spinning like a top in place, arms outstretched. He holds this spin for approximately one second, before stopping with .3 second cooldown. Characters who hit his spinning body take multiple hits of 7% that add up to 28-35%; the last hit deals great knockback that KOs around 90%. There is a slight vacuum effect a Battlefield platform's distance on either side of Luggs, helping to pull victims into the attack.

If a character is inside Luggs as he spins, their dizzy noise is heard from inside his belly, as they are stunned for a half second to a second and a half, depending on charge time (they don't take damage, however). Don't get too caught up about charging the move to stun an inside opponent, or they may escape just before you start spinning.


Up Smash - Ectoplasm
Luggs leans upward for .55 second, before puking up a stream of green ghost slime in an arcing stream, it splattering all over the ground upon contact. The stream's range varies from one Battlefield platform to half of Battlefield, depending on charge time. Characters who hit the stream take multiple trapping hits of 4-5%; if they're in the stream as it hits the ground, they take 16-19% and vertical knockback that KOs around 110%. Although Luggs can't camp with his puke, he can use it from a range to avoid projectiles...if you're not trying to have one interrupt his meal in order for him to get angry, that is.

Luggs can spit up an opponent he's swallowed, like with F-Smash, automatically trapping them in the puke (although they can try to air dodge through it to avoid the knockback). A bit of ectoplasm sticks to a space one character wide at the steam's maximum range, remaining there for ten seconds. Opponents who walk onto the ectoplasm are stuck there, being unable to dash, jump, or dodge until they escape with grab difficulty. One puddle of ectoplasm may be onstage at a time. Luggs can trap a character in a puddle of sludge, before racking damage on them, or fleeing to summon a Waiter.


Aerials

Neutral Air - Expulsion
Luggs begins inhaling a copious amount of air over .6 second, his descent speed being cut in half as he does so, before pressing in his stomach, expelling the air from his body in a circle around him. Opponents within a Stage Builder block of Luggs as he inhales are sucked toward him, but not into him (that's what grab is for).

Anyone caught in the circle of expelled air are pushed back with triple FLUDD's knockback, giving Luggs some handy breathing room. If an opponent is beneath Luggs offstage, the expelled air will likely blow them down to their doom (Luggs should rarely be offstage to begin with, though). If an opponent is inside Luggs during this move, they are expelled out with the air at a random angle, dealing 10% and set knockback to outside opponents.


Forward Air - Scalding Breath
With Fire Breath's startup lag, Luggs breaths forward a Wario-sized cloud of fiery breath. Characters hit by the cloud take seven trapping hits of 2% over the second before it vanishes. This is a great move for Luggs to use from his hover. He can hover forward, use F-Air to trap a foe, then come down and hit them with any tilt. Luggs also has the option to hover and land F-Air, then hover back and away from the burning opponent to use Neutral Special.

Back Air - Teleport
Luggs vanishes for a split second, before reappearing a Battlefield platform and a half behind his former position with a roar. Opponents within a Stage Builder block of Luggs' frontside as he roars take 13% and are footstooled. Luggs essentially has access to a horizontal Melee air dodge.

Although he doesn't go helpless after using it, the roar takes a good half second to complete, so he won't be going anywhere too fast. That's not to say he can't space from opponents by teleporting away, though...Luggs can also use B-Air as a recovery method, although he'll have to blow himself up to be level with the edge, if he's below it to begin with.


Up Air - Tongue Propeller
Gluttony Luggs sticks out his tongue above himself and rapidly spins it about to slow his descent. His already-average fall speed is now halved, as his horizontal DI capabilities are tripled. Opponents hit by Luggs' spinning tongue take seven hits of 2%, the last of which KOs vertically around 125%. By tapping the input, Luggs spins his tongue for a second, although he can hold the move as long as he wishes, with .3 second lag on both ends. If Luggs needs to escape a fight to get some food in his belly, he can jump up (or use Up Special to get up even higher), before hovering to safety with an U-Air or two.

Down Air - Cannonball
Luggs curls into a transparent ball, as he plummets toward the stage, with lag comparable to Bowser Bomb. If he passes through characters on the way, he'll envelop them in his transparent form, before carrying them down to the stage. He is invincible to all attacks while plummeting, although he has truckloads of landing lag to make up for this strength.

Luggs deals 5% per half second to an opponent he's enveloped; once he lands, he materializes with the opponent inside him, as if he's Inhaled them. If Luggs lands on an opponent with this move, the same will occur. The glutton can easily use this move to drop down on opponents with, considering he'll pass through their anti-air attacks and absorb the attacker with his transparency. Surprisingly, Luggs cannot suicide KO with this very well; the startup lag practically spoon-feeds opponents when to dodge, and considering most characters will be gimping Luggs from above anyways, he'll have trouble finding a time and place to bring an opponent down with him.


Final Smash

Final Smash - All-You-Can-Eat Buffet
A fork and knife materialize in Luggs' hands, as he roars in hunger. Several Waiter ghosts materialize, carrying a long, wooden dining table laden with food, placing it in the background of the stage's main platform, before vanishing. For the next fifteen seconds, Luggs can perform a spot-dodge to take a seat at the table and begin stuffing his face, healing a buffed 3% and receiving five seconds of energy for every half second he eats.

This is much more of a defensive Final Smash; because Luggs cannot be interrupted by any move that doesn't hit into the background (which most characters lack), he cannot get angry by having his meal interrupted. He's best off just dodging right off the bat and stockpiling energy for later. If he does happen to be facing a background-hitting character and they attack him, he gets super armor while angry. From then on out, he can just go to town on them while enraged, before dodging at the last second to continue feasting (no need to worry about being stunned or grabbed, with his armor intact).


Playstyle

Mr. Luggs plays his matches utilizing an intriguing mix of offense and defense. He can't rely too heavily on one over the other; Luggs can play a decent offensive game, but can't do so for very long without collapsing. Likewise, he has plenty of defensive spacing moves, but can neither build consistent damage with them nor fight from a range once he achieves it.

At the beginning of a match, Luggs will want to start defensive by summoning a Waiter from a distance. Although he won't heal himself without damage, he'll increase the time he has to attack opponents later on. This should be enough of a motive for opponents to approach Luggs and interrupt his feeding. Of course, this causes the big lug (excuse the pun) to lose it.

Some opponents, particularly the faster combo characters, may not see a need to interrupt Luggs and give him access to faster moves. In this case, Luggs will want to take some damage, before spacing from his opponent and feeding. If he can't draw in opponents by increasing his energy, Luggs will have to do so by healing himself. No matter what, Luggs will want to fight while enraged, to stand a chance of beating anyone better than Ganondorf; most of Luggs' moves have high startup or ending lag (or both) that any character can take advantage of to destroy Luggs, unless the lag is halved by his rage.

If you feed early enough on (or don't take too long to flee and start feeding after taking some damage), Luggs will have a nice chunk of energy with which to take on opponents once he's enraged. Unless he has incredibly high damage and wants to feed more to heal damage before coming after opponents, he'll want to get up to them and start building damage. Keep in mind that his energy will be dwindling down as he does so; whatever you're going to do, you can't dilly-dally doing it. Fortunately, Luggs' attacks all deal plenty of damage, allowing him to put the hurt on opponents without much effort. Your basic attacks, as well as several aerials will all get the job done; if you're having trouble, Luggs can use one of his stunning moves meant to assist with spacing (e.g. dash attack, D-Tilt shockwave, or U-Smash slime).

If Luggs is able, Inhaling an opponent is a great close-range option, due to him not losing energy while holding a foe in his belly. It's generally a good idea to inhale an opponent after they take upwards of 30% or so damage, so they won't immediately escape before Luggs can land an internal stunner. Once they're captured, Luggs will want to alternate between stunning moves (such as D-Smash or D-Tilt) and damaging ones (such as pummel and D-Tilt again). In FFAs, Luggs can extend his stomach, full of an opponent, into a crowd with jab or U-Tilt, for additional damage. When he's ready to bring them back outside for a KO, he can either let them escape like a wuss...or force them out with F-Smash, U-Smash, or N-Air. If you want me to spoon-feed you the moves with which you can KO them, you are a cyborg.

Now, you won't always be able to build damage with your opponent in your belly; it's inevitable that your energy will drop as you continue fighting (especially if you use Down Special to ensure you don't waste this time becoming combo food). This is where Luggs has to shift gears to defense mode. Luggs must space himself from his opponent in order to summon a Waiter. He has plenty of options with which to do so, not the least of which include sending your opponent running with Side Special, blowing them away with Up Special, or hovering away with U-Air. Once you're at a range, let your feast commence. You'll be able to regain your energy and heal, until your opponent interrupts you again.

Perhaps the most important decision Luggs players will have to make is in regards to at what point to call it quits and space in order to regain energy. Luggs needs a bit of time to build damage, but after that, you are faced with the choice of whether to stick it out and build a bit more in one sitting, or flee, rest, and come back later. Opponents of the great glutton will be playing aggressively to keep him occupied as his energy runs low. Although he can stun them back or disable the common problem of grabbing with F-Tilt's slobber, Luggs needs to leave enough time to escape and feed. He needs to leave a bit of time to actually do the feeding as well. If he tries using Neutral Special at close range, he'll maybe get in only a few seconds of energy before having to flee again without building damage, in order to muster up enough energy to even be able to return to fighting.

In order for the obese spirit to come out on top, the player must be able to play responsibly, accordingly to the amount of energy he has left. A good Luggs player will create a balance in matches between offense and defense, between fighting and eating, tying the two together with Luggs' vast collection of attacks that lend themselves to each category.



Match-Ups

Vs. Luigi - 60/40: Luggs' Favor
If only Sakurai had given him the Poltergust, Luigi might have come out on top here...Luigi has no problem against Luggs' regular slow moveset, so Luggs will want to take some damage, before fleeing and summoning a Waiter. Luigi will be forced to approach and interrupt his meal, pissing off the glutton. At close range, Luggs outranges Luigi by far; although Luigi can combo Luggs fairly easily, he can simply activate Down Special.

By that point, Luggs will likely have quite a bit of energy accumulated from ranged eating, due to Luigi having fairly slow approaches; he can afford to remain in the darkness for a few seconds, to turn the match back in his favor. In addition, Luggs' anti-air U-Tilt and U-Smash can put the hurt on the green plumber if he attempts a series of short-hopped aerials. Spacing from Luigi isn't exceptionally difficult, either, allowing Luggs to gain even more energy. The glutton takes the cake here, although if Luigi's combos are solid enough, he can land an Up Special on Luggs' massive bulk with ease; this match-up is far from a given for Luggs.


Vs. Dionysus - 20/80: Dionysus' Favor
For starters, Dionysus can place his vineyard much more liberally against Luggs, who will be feeding from a distance early on. When it comes time to pull Luggs into the vineyard, Dionysus can do so without even interrupting Luggs' meal with Side Special (a non-damaging move). Once he's close enough, Dionysus can simply grab the big ghost; this will interrupt his feast, but because he's already grabbed, it's too late for this to matter.

Dionysus will have an easy time racking damage on Luggs with multiple throws; it's doubtful Luggs will even have time to use Down Special to avoid this, due to Dionysus pressuring him back toward the vines with his stunners. Speaking of the stunners, even if Luggs manages to get enraged, Dionysus has plenty of these buggers, allowing him to regrab the fat ghost. Granted, Luggs takes quite a while to die off traditionally, but Dionysus, with his lengthy grab-game and stunners, will have little problem keeping Luggs around long enough for his energy to drain completely. Not a favorable match-up for Luggs in the slightest.


Vs. Dark Bowser - 65/35: Luggs' Favor
The primary reason Luggs wins over Dark Bowser is that the glutton has free control over Dark Bowser's cages. Because Luggs can space so well, he can prevent himself from getting caught in one in the first place. Sometimes, however, that's just what he'll want to do, in order to feed in reasonable peace. When Dark Bowser begins trying to 'torture' you, whether it be by creating earthquakes or by blowing in objects in clouds, Luggs can either take a hit with Neutral Special order to get enraged, or simply use Down Special to slip out of the cage unharmed.

You can even stay in the cage long enough for Dark Bowser to come into the cage with you, considering once enraged, Luggs' close range options are on par with, if not superior to, Dark Bowser's. And hey, if you get in a tight spot, just use Down Special to escape, and summon another Waiter. Luggs essentially neutralizes a big chunk of Dark Bowser's damage-building game with his cage control. Dark Bowser has Luggs beaten in KO versatility, although Luggs doesn't struggle to send Dark Bowser reeling off blast lines with his deadly attacks. Overall, Dark Bowser will have to play a much more conservative game building damage without his cage, as well as consistently preventing Luggs from fleeing and feeding with Up Special, if he wants to come out victorious. He's definitely capable of doing so, but Luggs will surely give him a run for his money in the process.


Vs. Octillery - 50/50: Draw
Both Luggs and Octillery will be hoping to fight from a range at first. Luggs will want to take some damage, before fleeing to a safe spot and feasting; Octillery will want to approach more than vice versa, due to him taking a while to KO Luggs both traditionally and by gimping (Luggs' recovery isn't that bad). Luggs has no problem building damage on and KOing Octillery, but he also has to work during this match-up to ensure he has enough energy.

In some circumstances, he'll have trouble finding time to feast, due to Octillery constantly interrupting him with his camping. Octillery can also badger Luggs, giving him much less room to mess up during the match. He can latch on and wail on the glutton to prevent him from gaining energy, or spit out some gunk and attempt to trip Luggs on top of it. Octillery will have to beware being KOed early to win this match-up, which can be troublesome against Luggs, who specializes in doing so. While he has trouble KOing Luggs any way -but- by draining his energy, Octillery can be quite an annoyance in this regard. Definitely a nail-biter match-up to watch out for.


Vs. Dr. Tiki - 0/100: U-Smash's Favor
Does Luggs -really- need to be in the game? Large Tiki fills the role of heavyweight antagonist better than this ball of fat could ever dream of doing, and you fans are far too stupid to even recognize this fact consciously. You know what else? The designs of these ghosts are atrocious. In fact, they're so bad, I feel like laughing at them, like the joke they are. Hahahahahahahahahaha! Suck on that, Luigi's Mansion creators!

Extras

Up Taunt - Belly Rumble
A loud grumbling is heard from Luggs' stomach; being the wise guy he is, Luggs looks every way -except- at his stomach, trying to pinpoint the source of the racket.

Side Taunt - Haunted Bib
Luggs' bib flaps upward, wiping its owner's mouth off for him. Luggs, used to haunted objects of this sort, seems to pay no attention.

Down Taunt - Stomach Drum
Glutt...er, the gluttonous spirit plays a random tune on his belly by pounding on it. The tunes are all very short and include such randomness as the first few notes of the Super Mario Bros. theme or the Legend of Zelda item jingle.

Entrance - Dinner is Served
A single Waiter ghost struggles to carry an overlarge platter from the background. The platter becomes too heavy to bear, and flattens the ghost, which vanishes in a cloud of dust. Luggs pops the top off of the dish, revealing himself, as the battle begins.

Victory Pose #1 - Victory Feast
Luggs hovers in front of an enormous tray, shoveling handful after handful of ghost jelly into his mouth.

Victory Pose #2 - Finished Meal?
A Waiter is seen taking a tray, licked clean, away from Luggs, who smiles contentedly...for a few seconds. As soon as the Waiter leaves the screen, Luggs begins ranting for more food.

Victory Pose #3 - Babeh Baby Food
Luggs is seen in the background of the stage, chasing after Chauncey, the boss baby from Area 1 in Luigi's Mansion. Chauncey performs his trademark annoying crying as he floats away, while Luggs licks his lips in anticipation. Baby, it's what's for dinner!

Loss Pose - Drowning Sorrows
Luggs is seen eating from a tray held by a Waiter in the background, too preoccupied to clap for the winners. A second Waiter does so in place of its master, who doens't seem to notice or care.
 

Rychu

Thane of Smashville
Joined
Jul 5, 2010
Messages
810
3DS FC
1908-0105-4965
Mr. Luggs:

To me, this is a really cool set: an obscure character that has an un-smashish moveset thats still fairly believable.
The thing is that against certain characters(meta knight, snake, DDD) he's totally screwed. Then again, against others(all in the triforce teir), he's almost a guarenteed win. I cant tell if he's broken because of his down special and food rage thing, or underpowered because of the stamina and slow overall speed
Overall, He's pretty much what I want my movesets to be like: interesting, flowing, and middle-tier material.
 

MasterWarlord

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 24, 2008
Messages
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Location
Not wasting countless hours on a 10 man community
MR. LUGGS

I rather like the mechanic you pulled off with this one – it’s a unique take on the ammo bank mechanic in that it doesn’t arbitrarily limit your move selection, but it gives you all the strategy about conserving resources from said ammo banks. More importantly, though, you introduce another very intruiging layer that shakes up this conservative energy storage in that Luggs has to get a few to interrupt his refueling and let it out all at once to actually do that much.

It’s a very intruiging mesh of offense and defense, even if most of the flow is on the defensive side outside the whole mechanic with attacking foes inside his belly, which can be used as both offense and defense. Considering you don’t lose energy with a foe inside your belly, there’s no penalty from being enraged, so I’d consider that something more for his offensive game, so I suppose the complaint about there not being that much offense is rather moot. The various moves that enable outside foes to interact with a victim Luggs has eaten offers intriguing strategies for doubles and FFAs too, so kudos to you. Nice job with this one, Kupa, especially with those match-ups – it’s so rare we get any good ones nowadays.
 

darth meanie

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
452
Mr. Luggs

This moveset is a pretty interesting set overall. The combination of heavy focus on offense and defense, and camping without projectiles to build up energy is pretty unique overall. The combination of stunners with his inhaling grab, and unique take on throws and utility in team and FFA matches is a plus too.

My main complaint with Mr. Luggs is with the mechanic he's centered around. I don't buy that enemy players would have any incentive not to attack him immediately, as Mr. Luggs has no reason to stop eating himself, as being attacked only has benefits for him. So any competent player would immediately rush him down when he starts eating, and pressure him so he couldn't eat any more. This is compounded by the fact that running out of energy is basically instantly dying. Why you can't even summon a waiter when he's in this catatonic state to get him back into fighting shape is beyond me; it's a grossly over the top punishment for failing to maintain a time-bank mechanic, especially when he has moves that double his energy loss.

Beyond my deep concerns about the mechanic though, this is a very good set from you. If the concept behind the ghost waiter had been better designed to create more interesting choices and was less a tax on the player to maintain, it'd be super vote territory. As it is though, this set is merely strong. I definitely like it more than Dionysus or the Scotsman who inspired this set though, and neither of them were half-bad either.

 

Fawriel

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Messages
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oblivion~
Ahahahaha, oh wow.

I leave the boards for, what, a year or two, and suddenly my little thread creation took on a life of its own.

I'm amused to no end, I tell you what.
 

Junahu

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 15, 2005
Messages
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Location
Shropshire Slasher
Holy cow..it's FAWRIEL! Welcome! :bee:
We're totally going to pressgang you until you stop by the MYMchat and say hi. So, seriously, pop in whenever you have the time


[To those MYMers who never bothered to check, Fawriel was the proprietor of the original MakeYourMove thread. This makes him awesome by default.]
 

ryuu seika

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 21, 2010
Messages
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Amidst the abounding light of heaven!
I was told to post this here:

Emil Castagnier (yes, he's a swordsman but a unique one)
Hailing from the Aselia universe, Emil is the main character of Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the new World. Don't let that put you off though as he brings some interesting and powerful moves and a to the battle.
Emil appears in his white starting costume.

I cannot find a picture of white costume Emil but the character looks pretty much the same as the one for Ratatosk, just with green eyes.

Features: Emil can change characters but, unlike Zelda, cannot be bypassed on the character select.

Specials:
^B Havoc Strike - Jump upward slightly, then strike diagonally down at a near vertical angle with both foot and sword. Your descent follows the same angle and continues until landing. The knockback isn't great and it fires them upward and away from you (also a near vertical angle) but the damage isn't bad, it's quickish to execute, has practically no afterlag and can hit at any point before landing. No control is possible during the descent.
<>B Phoenix Rush - Move forward slightly while slashing in a circle round you. Knockback is decent and is in an either forward or backward direction depending on the opponent's position but the damage is minimal. No descent occurs during this move and the mid point actually has a tiny bit of upward movement but, as this is past the end of the forward motion, the small afterlag will kill you if this was otherwise enough to recover. No start up lag is present and no vertical motion is possible.
0B Demon Fang - Slash your sword to create a projectile shockwave whick travels along the ground or diagonally down through the air (equal parts vertical and horizontal motion). The move itself is quick with some afterlag but little startup lag. If this part of the move hits the knockback won't be too much but the damage would be high (think just below 20%) and if the diagonally upward/forward knockback (equal parts) didn't fire them far, the projectile could still hit. The projectile, however, would be slowish and do only 6 or 7% at most, giving only flinching knockback and hitstun. No motion is possible during the move but the projectile does not hinder player motion and gives time for the afterlag to wear off. The projectile is easily jumped and travels about 2/3 the length of FD.
vB Fiend Fusion - This is the main twist of Emil. His sword motion (which does about 3% and flinch knockback in a tiny range) draws in darkness without any startup lag. During this time his is vunerable from above and behind and after the sword motion he is shrouded in darkness for an instant, allowing him to be hit from all sides. Once again, no movement is permitted during this attack, making Emil rather vunerable. Nor is this move usable while properly ariel, instead forcing the player into freefall until it can be performed with the sword motion ending on the ground. When Emil comes out of the darkness, however, he is a different and stronger character, see "Ratatosk".

Final Smash:
^
0>B
v Devil's Hellfire - "I'm not gonna end here!" Emil slashes three times, each with pretty high damage but no non-flinch knockback (yet) and then smashes the edge of his sword down into the ground (high damage, no KB), unleashing and explosion of darkness (mid/low damage) and finally releasing all the KB stored up until this point in one huge upward and slightly forward blast. Ground only, will auto jump off/drop through platforms if nessicery to continue the combo up until hit four.

Taunt: "I... I must go on."

Would Replace (if ever made): Zelda

Ratatosk (or Emil V2.0)
Ratatosk is a summon spirit. An elemental being of immense power comprised solely of the worlds mana. Once keeper of the mana tree, Ratatosk is second in power only to the spirits of Time and Matter. A war, however, caused his tree to wither and die and four thousand years on, Ratatosk seeks revenge upon mankind.
He wears the dark blue suit from Dawn.



Features: Ratatosk is a secondary form not present on the character select menu and, unlike Sheik, will return to his original form after 1 and a half minutes or thereabouts. May also revert when blocking (undecided).

Specials:
^B Burning Havock - Jump upward slightly, then strike diagonally down at a near vertical angle with both foot and sword encased in flame. Your descent follows the same angle and continues until landing. KB still isn't great but the damage better than that of the non-fire elemented version. Slight horizontal control is possible during the descent and the landing causes a firey explosion with slightly higher damage than the main move. The KB for this explosion is also rather higher than the move itself but is 50/50 up/forward rather than mostly upward.
<>B Phoenix Rush - Slash in a circle round you to create a stream of wind. KB and damage are both minimal but KB caries the enemy round behind (or below if able) you, allowing for several hits to rack up percent. The mid point has slightly more upward movement than before but it's still not enough for any real use besides allowing the opponent partially under you for the final hit. No start up lag is present and little but some vertical motion is now possible.
0B Shadow Demon Fang - Slash your sword in an arc of darkness infront of you. The move is quick with some afterlag but little startup lag. The darkness adds a small amount to the range of the attack and it now has some decent straight up KB but the damage remains the same and there is nolonger a projectile.
vB Fiend Fusion - Knock your enemies back a short way with a burst of stalagmites from round your feet doing little damage but more than that of the sword motion (which remains part of the attack) and protecting you from foes on the ground from all sides.

Final Smash:
^
0>B
v Ain Soph Aur - "Ain! Soph! Aur!" With a blast of pure light from the palm of his sword hand, Ratatosk anihilates his foes without any hope of survival (unless they dodge it). Damage and Knockback are irrelevant as those hit dissintergrate immediately.

Taunt: "Begone!"

Would Replace: Sheik

Suzu Fujibayashi (Yes, she is related to Sheena for those who don't know.)
A young Aselian ninja girl, Suzu also originates from Tales of Phantasia. The party first meets her in Volts cave but she doesn't join them until they meet up again near Origin's seal. Suzu shows little emotion, even after killing her own mind controlled parents, but this and her pet frog just make her a tougher fighter.



Features: Suzu has the ability to create a mirror image of herself and only speaks in Japanese. Her basic attacks consist mostly of small gagger strikes.

Specials:
^B Crow Blade - "Ninpo, Izuna Otoshi" Teleport upward (with leaves, it's ninjaish), then drop down spinning with daggers. The entirety of Suzu is a hit box during this move and the only limit to the number of hits is the hight of the stage. This move doesn't teleport vary far though (about CF's height) so you'd have to be almost that high up already for the full effect. Each hit does about 3% and the KB is only a tiny downward amount that doesn't vary with percentage. This is mainly a recovery move and/or dodge as the startup lag is non-existant but the damage can rack up quite well if you can catch your opponent in it and the amount of vertical movement allowed (about what Kirby has during falls) shouldn't make that too hard. Afterlag is fairly high though.
<>B Secret Thief - "Ninpo, Shiranui" Dash forward slightly, doing about 6% damage and a small amount of upward and very slightly forward KB. Startup lag is miniscule but the end lag is a bit more noticeable. Has about 20% chance of finding an item (apears in Suzu's hand) on a sucsessful hit.
0B Merciless Thunder - "Ninpo, Raiden" Suzu throws a dagger that deals 5% damage and flinching KB before giving off by lightning for another 12% and KB similar to Pikachu's Thunder. The width of the attack is small but unlike Pikachu's Thunder, the lightning can hit under platforms. The startup is fast and the afterlag is small. The projectile can be repelled with a perfect guard but the short range of the dagger makes this hard unless Suzu is airborne when throwing.
vB Mirror Image - "Ninpo, Utsushimi" Suzu concentrates for a short while, magic sparks floating round her, then a second Suzu apears. This looks exactly like the regular Suzu apart from being slightly transparent and works just like Nana (the female Ice Climber).

Final Smash:
^
0>B
v Summon Jiraiya - "Ninpo, Jiraiya" A giant frog falls from the sky just behind Suzu, dealing massive damage and downward KB to anyone hit by it. Suzu then hops on, both floating in place if the frog isn't on the ground, and the frog breathes out blue flame. This is similar to Bowser's fire breath but more damaging.

Taunt: "I pity you."

Would Replace (if ever made): Popo (the Male Ice Climber).

Edward D. Morrison (note: for the sake of this working, Edward and Tawnix count as one character. Such a theory is not considered canon.)
Also hailing from the Aselia universe, millenia ahead of the others, Tawnix originates from Tales of Phantasia. Tawnix D. Morrison is the inventor of time travel, encouraged by Cless and his friends after they're sent back in time by his grandson. Edward, however, is not who they thought, as Tawnix had no children before his time travel experiments wisked him off into the future. Tawnix and Edward are infact one and the same, the latter having had much more experience in his artes.



Features: Nothing special. A normal fist/foot fighter.

Specials:
^B Lunge - Teleport upward, then drop down until you connect with the ground or an enemy, performing a 2 hit kick + punch combo with small damage and KB on contact with either. Horizontal movement is possible during the fall so this makes for a good recovery move and an effective dodge due to its total lack of startup lag. Be warned, however, the afterlag is quite high.
<>B Rending Blast - Edward thrusts his palms forward for a strike with little damage and only flinch KB. A red energy sphere then bursts from his palms (does not move) giving off lots of damage and a lot of forward KB, finally downing the foe. Ukemis are possible if they "land" off stage but they will have lost a fair bit of height already. Large afterlag and not particularly quick startup though. Does not prevent falling but may be used ariely
0B Indignation - Charge up a bolt of lightning similar to Pikachu's Thunder but with a much wider area of affect. KB is relatively small but the damage is medium-massive. A fair bit of charging is required even for minimum damage though and it has some afterlag so this is in no way a quick way of racking up percent. May charge while airborne but speeds descent slightly.
vB Outburst (AKA Dhaos Coridor) - Small startup lag. Edward slams his palm into the ground to create a burst of flourecent green time energy around him (he's totally unhittable at full explosion size). The damage isn't great compared to his other attacks but is better than lunge. The KB isn't massive either but gets the job done and varies in direction based on enemy location. End lag is also small but cooldown is larger and he enters freefall if ariel

Final Smash:
^
0>B
v Indignation Judgement - "This ends here! Indigation Judgement!" A huge circular glyph appears below his foe, shortly followed by a blast of electricity out of it with high damage and small upward and slightly forward/backward KB. This is then followed by a sword from the sky which does high damage and spikes. This sword then explodes on contact with the glph for location variable KB and a little more damage.

Other moves of note:
0A Tetra Assault - "Tetera Assaulto!" Starts with a horizontal sweeping slap attack in front of him and, with three more presses of the a button, can be extended into a second slap (identical but with the other hand) and two low kicks. Medium startup lag and fairly high after lag (lessened if not all four hits are activated) but good range, pretty good damage (7%/7%/5%/5%) and good horizontal KB for what the move is. KB isn't ever enough to kill though, doing about CF's width per hit at 100%. The range may be good but the movement during the combo is fixed and so if the first hit only just connects, the second is unlikely to at over 60% or so.

Taunt 1: "I dwell amidst the abounding light of heaven!"
Taunt 2: "Thou art at the gateway to the underworld!"

Would Replace (if ever made): Unknown
 

darth meanie

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
452
Welcome to Make Your Move Ryuu!

While those movesets are a good start (it's rare to see someone start with four sets at once) movesets are only accepted if they have a full suite of moves. That means standard attacks, tilts, smashes, aerials, and throws too. The Specials you did write are also pretty light on detail; with barebones organization, no line breaks, and no detail on important stuff like KO percentages, range, exact damage, it makes it pretty thin.

I would recommend reading other sets and getting to understand a little better what makes a set well received if you plan on making any more sets, so you can improve in quality.
 

Twilight-Emblem

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 28, 2008
Messages
114
Location
Alabama
@MR.LUGGS

Well, well, well, what have we here? Mr. Luggs, hmm? Ooh, I'm really scared...Err, wait, since when was he formidable?!
RUN LUIGI! RUN!

In all seriousness, though, Mr. Luggs has more things in his favor than against. I like the fitting take on his constant eating as a sort of "fuel" mechanic, and the blind rage works.

I do have to concur with the above posts that being unable to call desperately for food after fainting is a bit cruel, especially against combo-lock characters. Also, I wasn't sure at first where the moves came from in which he became a ball/silhouette of darkness, but then I remembered who the boss of his section of the mansion was.
Bogmire

All in all? 7 Ghostly Stares/10
:evil::evil::evil::evil::evil::evil::evil:/10




Now that the review is out of the way, it's opinion time!

That's right everyone, it's time to weigh in on these three questions regarding my sets (note that I will decide for myself, but all viewpoints are accepted)

1. How much Specific Damage should it take, minimum, for Primid's Shadow Bugs to create a copy of the opponent? (Specific Damage being defined as damage taken from a certain type of attack, I.E. Moves utilizing Shadow Bugs) The doppelganger will, in the set's current form, have the same amount of HP as the amount of Bug damage the victim had at creation.

2. Which team set would stimulate the most interest at this time, a group of Pokemon meant to integrate the team relationships in Brawl and Pokemon, with each capable of operating solo but still having a role to play in a team; or Bowser's Minions, a fun set I started way back in my Black Mage day but never completed?

3. Is there any official area to place a Story Mode anymore, or shall I simply link to it from my Pocket Dimension (Link-up Space) in the next thread?

Primid has only a few roadblocks left to scale before he steps up to the ring, the final of which will be proofreading, anyone interested? Should be early October or so that I get it to you...
 

ryuu seika

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 21, 2010
Messages
4,743
Location
Amidst the abounding light of heaven!
Welcome to Make Your Move Ryuu!

While those movesets are a good start (it's rare to see someone start with four sets at once) movesets are only accepted if they have a full suite of moves. That means standard attacks, tilts, smashes, aerials, and throws too. The Specials you did write are also pretty light on detail; with barebones organization, no line breaks, and no detail on important stuff like KO percentages, range, exact damage, it makes it pretty thin.

I would recommend reading other sets and getting to understand a little better what makes a set well received if you plan on making any more sets, so you can improve in quality.
I have read other sets and understand exactly what is wrong with mine.
I kept my move descriptions "bare bones" intentionally due to the fact that I lack the knowledge of what isn't and isn't fair in regards to te more complex details and left the organisation somewhat lacking so that it was clear where one character ended and the next began.
These were designed as simple movesets, not the complete ones that are shown here because, with the detail I can give, it would just end up as Punch, Punch, Punch, Punch, Punch, Kick, Kick, Kick, Flip Kick, Flying Kick, Ariel Kick, which is in no way a fun moveset to read.

These sets were not designed for MYM and were simply meant to get a good description of the important moves without bogging the reader down in unnessicery and likely useless (due to my limited understanding) details. I was reluctant to post here to be honest but apparently I am not allowed to post them elsewhere :(.
 

john!

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 19, 2006
Messages
8,063
Location
The Garden of Earthly Delights
These were designed as simple movesets, not the complete ones that are shown here because, with the detail I can give, it would just end up as Punch, Punch, Punch, Punch, Punch, Kick, Kick, Kick, Flip Kick, Flying Kick, Ariel Kick, which is in no way a fun moveset to read.
I made this mistake with my movesets. That's what MYM has become, people are making these ridiculous movesets that might be fun in theory, but would never make it into a Smash game because they are unviable in practice. If ROB, Snake, Dedede, etc. weren't in Brawl and I posted their exact movesets, they wouldn't get a second glance from most of the people here even though they are far more realistic.
 

UserShadow7989

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
305
I made this mistake with my movesets. That's what MYM has become, people are making these ridiculous movesets that might be fun in theory, but would never make it into a Smash game because they are unviable in practice. If ROB, Snake, Dedede, etc. weren't in Brawl and I posted their exact movesets, they wouldn't get a second glance from most of the people here even though they are far more realistic.
Realism means little. The sets are for entertainment. Fun to make, fun to picture, fun to scheme up, and fun to read about. Reading generic punch and generic kick over and over is hardly entertaining, nor is creating them.

There's no reason to make it realistic; these sets are never going to be used for something beyond an entertaining thought exercise. There's nothing ridiculous about making them entertaining to read by sacrificing viability for something that it will never be used.

No need to get so worked up over it, it's a game of make believe. Go crazy.

Edit: Also, I LOVE that signature. I nearly fell out of my chair laughing.
 

darth meanie

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
452
I made this mistake with my movesets. That's what MYM has become, people are making these ridiculous movesets that might be fun in theory, but would never make it into a Smash game because they are unviable in practice. If ROB, Snake, Dedede, etc. weren't in Brawl and I posted their exact movesets, they wouldn't get a second glance from most of the people here even though they are far more realistic.
Well the point isn't to replicate or predict movesets for characters in Brawl. The fact is, most Brawl characters have fairly boring movesets and not much playstyle or thought to them. Granted, they're real, while our sets aren't, but our goal here is to create the most interesting and fun movesets that we can, and the actual characters in brawl don't cut it.

Of course they won't make it into Smash, most of our characters aren't even Nintendo franchises. Which is why we can go the extra mile into ludicrous ideas. And even then, many of our ideas are still fairly well grounded into Smash. Certainly, they're not as boring as sets that already exist, but sets that would fit into Smash as it exists as well as ones that change the nature of the game are both in Make Your Move. The key is not how 'unsmash' it is, but how good and fun and interesting it is.
 

john!

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 19, 2006
Messages
8,063
Location
The Garden of Earthly Delights
i understand that being realistic isn't the point of this competition, but it took me a while to realize that creativity and originality are valued more than feasibility and character balance. i'm not trying to disparage your efforts because i've seen some extremely creative stuff here.
 

UserShadow7989

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
305
i understand that being realistic isn't the point of this competition, but it took me a while to realize that creativity and originality are valued more than feasibility and character balance. i'm not trying to disparage your efforts because i've seen some extremely creative stuff here.
It's alright. I apologize if we acted unfriendly towards you. There's nothing wrong with taking a more realistic approach; we've just become jaded and fairly demanding over the years after seeing so much (well years is a bit of a stretch, since MYM isn't even 3 years old). We DO get really over the top at times, but that's all part of the fun.
 

KingK.Rool

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 26, 2005
Messages
1,810
i understand that being realistic isn't the point of this competition, but it took me a while to realize that creativity and originality are valued more than feasibility and character balance. i'm not trying to disparage your efforts because i've seen some extremely creative stuff here.
You have some very fair points, so I feel we owe it to you to explain. The reason balance isn't paid as much attention to is because it's really quite restrictive for us; almost no one in MYM is competitive at all and a few members don't even have Brawl (weird though that is), so we're not qualified to make judgement calls on something that'd be impossible to quantify anyway. I mean, how do you decide whether one set is better-balanced than another? ;) The obvious answer is to not bother deciding at all, but we've got this competitive bent we can't seem to shake and comparing one set to another is therefore inevitable

As for feasibility, that's an old debate we have around here - how unsmash is too unsmash? what can we pull off without going beyond the realm of common sense? - and you'll find movesets and movesetters on both sides of the divide. The problem for the pro-smash bunch is that it's a lot easier to appreciate an uber-creative, really outrageous set that shows off lots of effort right from the bat than it is a quieter, humbler, more implementation-slanted piece of work, and everybody likes to do well when the voting period comes around, so even those who, when commenting, think that we should be sticking to the game's constraints often just let loose when they come around to actually making their own movesets. That's certainly my situation in a nutshell, but I'm retired anyway
 

MasterWarlord

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 24, 2008
Messages
2,902
Location
Not wasting countless hours on a 10 man community
You have some very fair points, so I feel we owe it to you to explain. The reason balance isn't paid as much attention to is because it's really quite restrictive for us; almost no one in MYM is competitive at all and a few members don't even have Brawl (weird though that is), so we're not qualified to make judgement calls on something that'd be impossible to quantify anyway. I mean, how do you decide whether one set is better-balanced than another? ;) The obvious answer is to not bother deciding at all, but we've got this competitive bent we can't seem to shake and comparing one set to another is therefore inevitable

As for feasibility, that's an old debate we have around here - how unsmash is too unsmash? what can we pull off without going beyond the realm of common sense? - and you'll find movesets and movesetters on both sides of the divide. The problem for the pro-smash bunch is that it's a lot easier to appreciate an uber-creative, really outrageous set that shows off lots of effort right from the bat than it is a quieter, humbler, more implementation-slanted piece of work, and everybody likes to do well when the voting period comes around, so even those who, when commenting, think that we should be sticking to the game's constraints often just let loose when they come around to actually making their own movesets. That's certainly my situation in a nutshell, but I'm retired anyway
For the most part Rool covered everything, but I feel his reason for why we ignore balance is rather shoddy. What I'd like to highlight is that for the most part balance is just simple number crunching - just changing around simple values for power and speed. An example of when something is a legitimate balance concern that we take more notice of is when the balance problems are more deeply implemented into the set and can't be edited out with some simple number crunching - it's in these cases where the concept itself is simply broken. An example would be Wizzerd's Dr. Strangelove, regardless of it being an amazing set - Strangelove can set off his bomb to cause the match to be left up to luck, meaning his lowest possible match-up is 50/50.
 

DiamondFox

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Jun 4, 2010
Messages
35
I think that u guys don't give nearly enouf credit to stuff that is in-smash, and that is y i hvae only postd one moveset so far. After al, sets like what Sakura made r in bawwl, yours will never be. don't meen to be meen tho...
 
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