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Make Your Move 27: Jamcon 2 Comments Ahoy! Kefka and Wriothesley crash Jamcon

n88

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 10, 2008
Messages
1,530
Therion by SaltySuicune SaltySuicune
Been really looking forward to this one - Octopath is a bit under-repped in MYM and while I don't love OT1 the way I love OT2, it's still a solid little game.

Being able to grab items is a fun little twiddle (I actually have also played with this a little before in old sets plus an upcoming WIP). It'd be a bit tough to time on defense with a normal grab. Could be eased a bit by maybe giving him a more generous window for item-snatching than his actual active grab frames? Maybe not worth worrying about too much if it's meant to be more of a novelty feature than a big focus though - sometimes it's tempting to make these things super relevant but it's fine for it to be more a funny lil option in the style of Piranha Plant's anti-footstool effect.

This feels like it's getting a little more ambitious than previous sets I've read from you, while still retaining a sense of down-to-earthiness. Like this is a sensible pitch for how Therion should work in Smash - captures the feel of the character well, has solid synergies between the key inputs. It's getting just a little bit frisky in places with some of the Boost mechanics, though, and has some cool ideas.

I think there's still further for you to go, some of the melee inputs don't totally explore their outcomes or use-cases as much as they could. There are also some cool concepts that the set doesn't explore building his melee around too much. A weight debuff f'rinstance has some pretty obvious applications that you were wise not to belabor (lighter weight = KO faster, duh), but I didn't feel like the set took advantage of how reducing enemy weight might interfere with Therion's combo game or what his shield pressure options might look like once he gets Armor Corrosive going. I think applying those two effects simultaneously actually has some pretty interesting implications; cracking the opponent's defense gets easier but comboing becomes a little more difficult, providing a bit of a trade-off.

Overall though, definitely feels like a solid step up from you, and I got a kick out of reading him.
  • Joker type guy with PK Fire is vicious - I like it, but it's quite a strong move for this sort of guy.
  • I like him being a bit weak in terms of recovery - feels like it has him leaning on HP Thief for survivability, seems right.
  • HP Thief feels like it's not as good w/Boost as some of your other options... I'd consider just upping the heal amount above the canon half-damage instead of upping the damage a ton and keeping the heal at half what you deal. I dunno, 20% fast projectile isn't a bad deal at all but I think the move would shine more if the healing got amped instead of the damage.
  • Boosted recovery seems a bit awkward since he has to shield to Boost, so he can't do it in the air. So the only time he can Boost his recovery is if he Boosts and then gets sent off-stage before he has a chance to use any other attacks.
  • I think the debuffs in DSpec get pretty harsh at their highest levels, which is particularly a problem for Shackle Foe and its damage nerf; what it's doing at max boost is too strong unless it lasts for a very short time (assuming I'm following correctly and it's reducing the opponent's damage to 0.1x normal - seems intense even by the standards of spending BP).
  • DSpec is missing info about how long the debuffs last, actually, now I think about it.
  • I like the wrinkle that you start getting both debuff effects with enough boost!
  • DTilt says it's a semi-spike that's good for edgeguarding but also combos into UTilt - I think realistically it's probably one or the other, he can't be pushing foes away from the ledge but keeping them in range of that knife swipe. (Though tbf chasing and tossing out UTilt would possibly work in a lot of contexts even if not strictly a combo)
  • "I think that’s a poncho" - I too would characterize it as a poncho
  • Soulstones are a neat part of OT, makes sense to play em up on the thief character.
  • NAir damage is pretty chunky for this kind of input, might want to tone that down.
  • "enemies are sent two training stages worth of distance behind you" - that's pretty low knockback, likely only barely outside of Therion's sword range. You'd have to amp that up a little bit if you're going for high base knockback.
 

Daehypeels

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 10, 2022
Messages
13
Last edited:

Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,258
Location
Australia
Well… this is certainly something. Never thought anyone would go this ridiculously hard on a literal clone of a Smash character. Got to hand it to you for making a 50k moveset, even if your writing style is massively drawn-out compared to other setmakers and is filled with designer notes, which makes me curious how much mileage you got from this simple race car man. With that in mind, I won’t be reading every last bit of this moveset, as it is really long and it’s not all necessary to evaluating the moveset.

Blood Falcon has a nice little hook in his stats section: he is faster than Captain Falcon, but his initial speeds are slower and his air speed is harder to control, representing the difficulty of controlling vehicles in the F-Zero game. From there, it’s very apparent that the moveset is oozing with characterization: Blood’s dirty style of fighting, his evil facial expressions and the writing style, like having each stat be directly compared to Captain Falcon’s. Oh, and the quotes between attacks rock.

  • Jab has a fun little tap vs hold mix-up on the final hit, where one is bad on shields but can shield poke, but the other is safe (also the headbutt spikes, which can lead to it being teched). I like that it is balanced around having some low start-up for a Jab on frame 8.
  • F-tilt being a lunging kick feels fittingly extreme for a regular attack input on Blood Falcon, and almost like a flex on Captain Falcon, since his movement options are on Special inputs. Gives Blood Falcon a “go hard or go home feel,” alongside his Jab when they don’t feel like defensive inputs that other fighters might have on their Jabs and F-tilts.
  • U-tilt has a bit of a tap/hold gimmick that I think I remember from your previous sets, one being for combos and the other for finishers. Has a funny little crouching mindgame to it.
  • D-tilt is another “go hard” move, and I wasn’t expecting it to be a Volcano Kick style move! I think its damage output is undertuned, and it should probably have some KO potential against grounded opponents when it’s so high risk, but I get what you were going for with its primary application of deleting recovering opponents as a hard read. Might not be the most practical move, but the “do or die” aspect of diving offstage does really fit Blood Falcon and the F-Zero series as a whole. It also feels like you had a great deal of fun writing and describing this kind of dopamine-inducing move. Oh, and the attack name is very fitting too.

  • Pfft, F-Smash feels pretty tame after reading those over-the-top Standard attacks. I actually kind of enjoyed reading the pros section of this move and talking about how a Smash that can’t be blocked might work on a psychological level in Smash. I personally don’t have a problem with attacks that ignore shields, in case you’re wondering in the meta section, but it’s such an unusual thing to see in Smash when most attacks can be blocked, so I could see it throwing newer players for a loop when their shield randomly doesn’t work against it. But you know what? Who cares about that? Blood Falcon’s packing dark energy on his leg to justify his anti-shield powers, and that’s fine with me. I’m also glad you’re conscious of the implications of the frame gap between a Smash attack’s charge hold vs its release. I sort of wonder whether that gap should be widened here, it’s 12 frames right now and that’s not enough time for opponents to react with something like a spot dodge the moment Falcon releases that kick, but the move is slow enough that it probably doesn’t matter.
  • I respect U-Smash for dedicating itself purely to being an out-of-shield punish. I like how Falcon’s ability to turn around with his punch and ignore the move’s anti cross-up weakness is conveyed as a dishonest tactic. You seem to be doubting yourself with these Smashes so far in the meta write-ups, but I think your unorthodox, polarized approach to these moves works well for the character. A good out-of-shield punish feels like it would suit Blood Falcon well defensively, since his moves so far don’t feel tailored for defense.
  • D-Smash I’m more neutral on. It feels a bit like simple old attack.
  • Dash Attack’s animation reminds me of Chun-Li’s Spinning Bird Kick, and that’s how I mentally visualized this move. I like the power + lag changes to the move when it’s used out of a full dash vs initial dash, as that’s something not many sets do but has a lot of potential for fun. The attack’s animation makes it seem like it would be a multi-hitter, but it’s character fitting (and fitting to F-Zero gameplay) for it to just mow through enemies. I do think this move is kind of redundant with F-tilt, since they’re both movement attacks that focus on knockback and more damage at close range, and while F-tilt is brought up in Dash Attack’s write-up it is just as a lower-risk movement option. They do have different hitbox placements, at least, and you can only give Blood Falcon so many grounded options that are intentionally bad defensive moves.

  • “Blood Falcon swings his leg in nearly a full half-circle beneath him, punting forward.” Heh. N-air is a simple but fun enough move that makes use of the aerial momentum Falcon can build up. I like the knockback variation between hitting a ground vs air opponent, and the tech scenarios that can happen when platforms are involved.
  • F-air is another odd move, this time a big power bash, which is kind of fitting in comparison to the Knee of Justice - a high-risk bash that’s guaranteed to hit hard no matter where it lands, compared to the more precision-based Knee from Captain Falcon, but the movement poses high risks in itself. I like that it resets his aerial momentum, and that the bash’s direction is movement-based on top of the nuances that come with preserving Falcon’s momentum on start-up.
  • D-air really feels like it’s channeling the energies of Falcon Dive, Falcon Kick and Simon’s D-air in a single move. Very fitting. It’s pretty cool that you can manipulate Falcon’s trajectory based on his momentum, and further emphasis on burning a midair jump if you want to alter your momentum suddenly.
  • Blood Falcon’s pivot grab applying a bonus to your pummel and throws if it grabs foes from behind is surprisingly unique and I wasn’t expecting it on a momentum-heavy fighter. The standing vs dashing grab mix-up is pretty fun.
  • Oh man, that F-throw animation is merciless. Blood Falcon does what Captain Falcon would never dare to do in Smash. It’s a simple but effective tech chasing throw that Blood Falcon is good to utilize with his speed and burst options.
  • Your tendency to talk a lot about meta in Smash feels like it really works in this set’s favour, for obvious character-based reasons. B-throw is a simple combo throw, but it goes into some surprising detail about comparisons to Captain Falcon’s combo game, and Blood Falcon’s N-air loops. And tricks like B-throw > B-air downwards knockback being confirmable at lower percents, but you have to accommodate with using a Backwards Throw on an offensive character and do so at the ledge for max efficiency.
  • This set is really conscious of how Blood Falcon’s moves work together and make up his strengths and weaknesses, something that is emphasized in his U-throw.
  • D-throw is more simple, but works well with B-throw and just giving Blood Falcon good benefits from grabbing foes in the same position where he would benefit from the latter. Just as a kill throw here.

I’m sure we were all wondering what Blood Falcon’s Neutral Special would be, since he has no real source material to work off of here, but also expecting it to be some over-the-top finisher like the iconic Falcon Punch. But nah, it’s not a big finisher but instead a more balanced attack that gives Blood Falcon buffs to help finish off his opponents more easily. While I’m still in the camp of “Specials should go first,” in movesets, I think the design choice works well here because Blood Falcon’s moveset is so melee-driven, not to mention some moves don’t get knockback buffs and you get to talk in-depth about the implications behind certain buffed moves.

I wonder if Neutral Special’s buff is a little too powerful though: Blood Falcon already felt pretty solid as a fighter, and he can now move and combo much more easily on top of getting KOs more easily on his finishers. I think it mostly comes down to 12 seconds feeling a bit long - maybe the timer should be shortened to something like 5 seconds, which would give Blood Falcon a sense of urgency and a need to move quickly to make the most of his buffs, which would fit F-Zero being a racing game. This could also add a psychological depth that you like to talk about: a Blood Falcon player who is too reckless to use the buffs can end up being predictable and easier to outwit, but you could also be cunning and patient and take advantage of opponents giving you too much space.

  • Anyway, Side Special is a momentum-dependent attack, and that’s good because it’s intuitive with how the move is input and Blood Falcon plays. It makes sense as a “this deals more damage the farther you traveled,” attack that’s opposite to your F-tilt and Dash Attacks. I enjoy how detailed you went with the physics, and how long it takes to reach top speeds from each type of movement or lack thereof. Also the secondary details like arm intangibility. In fact, this move just plain has a lot of trivial details, like C-sticking to turn the other way for a Side Special while moving in one direction, and I really respect it for that.
  • Continuing with Side Special, it implements Boost Power from the F-Zero games in a very fun way: scarily easy to reach your top speeds, but you have to be super careful with it because you could accidentally slide off the stage. It’s more controllable if you use the move from slower speeds, but it also takes longer to wind up. Feels like it would be a crazy move to use in a real Smash game. Finally, Side Special’s grace period of allowing the player to turn around to perform the move while dashing feels like a fun slingshotting tactic that’s talked about in the pros section.
  • Up Special’s OoS usages with its early super armour are nicely described.
  • The moveset finishes with a basic power Down Special, but it has a funny twist of having really low base knockback that makes it good for early percent combos. Getting more end lag when staled is actually a neat touch too, so it can never get ridiculously good at comboing, especially with its damage output.

Writing-wise, the distribution between important technical details initially threw me for a loop in the Jab, since you have two different outcomes to consider, but after that it wasn’t an issue and the set was surprisingly easy to digest. I didn’t read most of the meta sections and glossed over a bit of pros and cons that didn’t feel completely relevant to understanding the cool application of certain moves, but I still think I walked away with a solid understanding of what you were trying to convey. I think your formula here is relatively successful.

I don’t think many of us have thought about F-Zero movesets, but this moveset does a stellar job at capturing the reckless and brutally offensive nature of the game. Stuff like F-tilt being a movement option, and D-tilt being a high-risk kill at the abyss are stuff I wouldn’t have thought about, but the way this set went about stuff like this made me reconsider how I would handle an F-Zero set (have thought about it, but very unlikely). The melee and playstyle to Blood Falcon is very well-designed here, being an aggressive momentum-driven character who makes some very good use of Smash’s aerial momentum mechanics. He is honestly such a great character pick for you given your movesetting style, as I don’t think many other setmakers would have gone into the level of physics and Smash nuances that you did. It means Blood Falcon gets a lot of mileage out of what are some more simplistic concepts.

Blood Falcon is easily my favourite set of yours so far - maybe around the level Black Alice was for me last contest, but for some pretty different reasons compared to that set. What primarily stops him from being frontrunner tier are that his concepts are not ultimately the strongest there could be, with minorly redundant or modest attacks and a long Neutral Special buff timer being much lighter issues. Very impressive display nonetheless!
 

BrazilianGuy

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 10, 2022
Messages
42
Read some guys with guns, here are my thoughts

My knowledge of Alu and his series boils down to his Death Battle Episode against Dio, one of my top 5 favorite episodes of that show, I still have the Hellsing OVA in my ever expanding lists of anime to check out. I just wanna say that the main thing I know of Cardy is that he just throws himself at his enemies while not caring for the damage he causes to himself, and that's just perfectly captured in moves like Dash Attack and Side Special. I also loved how as the set kept going you'd give more info about his playstyle, also really well done description of how each attack fits onto his kit and how they look, it all feels so in character. My favorites were his tendril nair and Baskerville. Giving him "Gun Neutral Special" along with moves that help him transition into said Gun Neutral Special was very clever and feels like something that'd be very fun to do. Also, very important detail that Luca has a Brazil alt costume, love that, All in all, I may not know Vlad enough, but this moveset is hella good, only criticism is that I know he has some more wack abilities, but since he is holding back in here I guess they'd feel out of place, but uhm yeah, real nice stuff. Areal****ingVampire/10

Not too familiar with Fang, I thought he was still called Fang the Sniper lmao. As I posted on this server I'm very impressed with how much sauce Fang has to edge guard, his 3 corks at different heights, his queen, the oil on ledge and the fire pillar (with luck) allow him to just make some characters never recover and I think that's very funny as someone who loves making and playing zoners in platform fighters. The sproingo jump also gives him a charming and unique way to move around. Charming is a word Id use quite a bit here, you can tell that you adore Fang, from his great U.I, the many references to sources from outside the games, the initial paragraphs and your passion for him comes out with full force. I will say tho, I think outside of the very creative and fun specials he lacks some sauce, his normals especially feel just alright, the interaction he has with the oil and the fake out F-Smash are nice but I kinda think the specials were where most of his interesting points went. But, I have to say that the extras section being extensive and having fun extras was really nice, again showing the passion for Fang. While I think I could have enjoyed it more I'd still say Fang is very solid, a Sniper/10.

Captura de tela 2024-02-06 132807.png
 

Daehypeels

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 10, 2022
Messages
13
Thank you so much for the quick comment! The meta sections aren't necessary, so you got enough for now - don't blame you or anyone for skimming on them.

-Glad the quotes worked out! I was tempted to revisit Bandit Gal's "Role:" gimmick, and might in the future, but I felt like Blood Falcon especially was a fun character to write them for. Probably the best part is that if any of them are cringe... yeah, it's Blood Falcon saying them, of course he's saying tryhardy nonsense.

-I could probably buff D-Tilt's damage, wasn't sure what was too much or too little... but the intent was that the plummet would almost always combo into the launching hit against opponents, it might get finicky from higher distances/exactly where they're hit/precise DI/etc., but if the opponent's on the ground, there should never be a situation where the two hits don't chain. If that wasn't clear, I'll go in and rewrite it to make sure.

-Smash Attack charge times are always a blast to mess with, without them you wouldn't get gems like Snake F-Smash. Totally get your point on F-Smash, I feel like lowering it is too much (we don't want a Sonic F-Smash that ignores shields) and raising it is unnecessary (it's already really slow and the reward ratio's kinda limp, adding a potentially reactable charge release sounds weird), so for now it's there. Might reinspect it though.

-D-Smash is probably the least-whelming attack in the blog, the meta comments delve into it but it's admittedly a mixture of filler + I liked the concept a lot more in my head than what ended up on paper. If I need to heavily rework any move, D-Smash is by far the first candidate.

-Fair point on Dash Attack. I was hoping it'd work because Blood is such a high-commitment character in the first place, he'll get a ton of ways to yeet himself at people, but some of the simpler methods will have slightly different flavors to choose from ("wanna charge at the opponent like a raging bull? F-Tilt if you want something quick, Dash Attack if you want something meatier but more committal, and Side B if you want to go all-in"). It's hard to pick between the two since I like both of them, but can't disagree they create a little bit of redundancy together.

-The grab game was a lot of fun to write, glad you enjoyed it. Funnily enough, nearly 1K alone is on a tangent about throws in B-Throw's meta section, if you brushed past that but wondered what that was about.

-Neutral B... I got really focused on the exact duration, since there was a middle ground to strike between "can snowball the duration by landing it again, but shouldn't be able to get too out of control against casuals", and "this move's Frame 19 so landing it isn't that easy". I think that screwed with my view of it, and yeah, 12 seconds is probably a bit much.
I don't like 5 seconds because I want it to be good for him/scary for the opponent, even if you just land it once and let the timer run out - if it's merely 5 seconds, opponents could just escape to the skies and willingly only contend with weak U-Airs, N-Airs, maybe a hard read with F-Air but it's the opponent's fault if they get hit by that. How do you feel about 8 seconds? Still some time to do other things without being put on such a strict timer, plus if the opponent wants to be a coward, 3 extra seconds can hurt.

-Super glad you like Side B, figuring out all those details was a bit of pain but very satisfying to finish and share, felt like "Blood Falcon go fast" wouldn't be enough to truly sell the idea.
Funnily enough, it's not really my interpretation of boosting from F-Zero, and instead a take on F-Zero X's drifting mixed with Blood's inherent personality and stats. Boosting is high-risk-high-reward resource management with your energy bar, as controlling your boost is one thing, but the real kicker is that you're literally sacrificing health for it - boosting too much doesn't just leave you unable to use it later, it makes you incredibly frail and makes any mistakes (or aggressive racers) EXTREMELY deadly. So boosting isn't just raw skill, it's a thoughtful and strategic question you're constantly asking yourself throughout the match, with loads of pros and cons. Whereas Side B is just about going fast and the risk of losing control, hence why it's called Ptero Drift and not Ptero Boost.
I have plans to more faithfully interpret boosting in a future moveset, but for now, it's only thematically similar, rather than a proper representation of how cool F-Zero's energy system is.


I'm incredibly happy you liked this one. Admittedly, I've always been a fan of lower-complexity moves - I don't often like going too hard on the raw concept of a move, and my preference is depth that lies within simplicity, just personally - so apart from maybe reworking D-Smash or doing something about F-Tilt/Dash Attack, the simpler move skeletons are here to say.
That being said, your comments will be taken to heart, and I'll use the rest of MYM27 to try and improve him any way I can. Thank you so much for the feedback and kindness!
 

Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,258
Location
Australia
Our first Majora moveset this contest is short and sweet, and presumably an appetizer based on the plans you’ve hinted at in the chat. Crafter type characters have big appeal to me: while not full-fledged throwing items like I was hoping for, Drifter still has a unique take on this with transformation-like items (Franklin Badge, Bunny Hood, etc.) that only Drifter can equip. The item that gets dumped is RNG-based, but I assume that’s how it works in Risk of Rain, and their effects are small and accumulative enough that it doesn’t matter if you get them often enough. Here Neutral Special works finely as a set-up move: one second is a long time, but it throws out an early hitbox to cover you, and you can first jump, dodge out of it and do get a bit of scrap if you are hit out of it. Not to mention recycle items close to you.

The set starts to get fun with its scrap cube, a big platform that you can stand on and push around but not get blocked by, which I appreciate. Channels a bit of Emidius. They being 3 grids long might be too long, and not really cube-shaped if they are 2 grids tall, but otherwise being 2 grids tall or Bowser-sized works. Being able to stack your cubes is fun, and… “Cubes are NOT affected by the side hitboxes of sliding cubes. What this means is that Drifter can in fact overlap her cubes into one concentrated cube. What does this do? Well, it’s basically multiplying the damage of the cube–if Drifter overlaps three cubes in the same place and you get hit by that, it’s going to HURT.” Does this mean multiple cubes can literally overlap without jostling each other? The idea of being able to merger multiple copies of the same construct and get one stronger hitbox from their slide is very fun, though the specific damage and knockback behind this is not stated. The move also doesn’t mention anything about the cubes’ HP or duration, only that they don’t take damage and that Drifter is limited to 3 of them.

  • Down Special weaponizing a bag gives me Banjo & Kazooie vibes. I like its Pocket-esque interaction with items and projectiles - maybe Down Special should be hard-coded to come out more quickly if there’s a projectile, item or even scrap cube in front of Watcher, just to make it more practical instead of having to deal with long starting lag.
  • Going off of first impressions from Jab and Dash Attack, the melee on your attacks feels a bit stronger than last contest. Might just be that I haven’t read your sets in a good few months, though.
  • I wonder if D-tilt could be used to push a scrap cube you’re standing on so you can use it as a mobile platform.
  • D-Smash is kind of fun, as it has a tripping hitbox and places Drifter in the air so she can tech chase her opponent aerially.
  • N-air is neat for its giving Drifter some degree of bag armour to punch through attacks at the cost of scrap, and is implemented in a way that can also stuff multi-hitting attacks. I wonder if it should only have armour if scrap would be removed from Drifter’s bag?
  • U-air and F-air are nice practical moves that make solid use of scrap cubes.
  • It would be kind of cool if Drifter didn’t lose her non-Headstomper D-air when she’s wearing Headstompers. Because burying moves are fun, this being unique as you can drag your opponent to the ground: I could envision a scenario where you bury them in a scrap cube and push it around while they’re stuck in it, which could be a lot of fun to talk about. Or use knockback storage to make the foe take light knockback forward, and time knocking the cube forward so you hit them with it when they escape.
  • Drifter’s throw game is solid in general - F-throw sold me further on scrap cubes not being solid and allowing foes to be launched past them, as that sets them up for the cube being pushed into them. I like cargo carry throws, especially in the context of positioning opponents for Scrap Cubes. It even has a cool twist to it where Drifter can use her Specials to different effects: like discount on Neutral Special, or the juicy trapping of opponents in cubes, and dumping more cubes on their cube so those cubes drop on them when they escape.

I won’t bring detail aspects in the future, but I am somewhat mixed on Drifter’s items not having specific damage multipliers. On one hand, it’s hard to sell the impact that say, the full 10 boxing gloves could have for Drifter’s KO options. On the other hand, I don’t mind the set playing it safe with its vagueness, as the set still conveys that boxing gloves and the like increase Drifter’s power, even if we don’t have an understanding of their potential KO percents.

While I didn’t find Drifter items to be particularly strong hooks, she ended up being a fun set all the same for her scrap cube and some of its clever uses: being an MYM oldie makes me a sucker for moving platforms you can push around, especially if they can stack.
 

Hyper_Ridley

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 21, 2007
Messages
2,291
Location
Hippo Island
The Dredge by GolisoPower
Hey look, it's that horror game I'll randomly come across on Steam! Almost played it on a free weekend, then I saw it was around 50 GB...

Anyways, this is certainly a spooky fella. There's some creepy animations, particularly DSmash, though that might be thanks to the image. The way it can teleport around the lockers is going to lead to some jumpscares in a FFA match. Oh, you're looking for an opening to hit the point leader? Too bad, here's Dredge with a buffered USmash, eat crow marionettes.

On the flipside, the size comparison pic got a laugh out of me. There's also some, perhaps unintentional, dark humor with the FSmash animation having Dredge go "F it!" and just clobber its prey. There's some definitely unintentional humor to the BThrow, I have a habit of using the Mario Bros as my mental test dummy on attacks, so I'm sitting there hearing Mario going "OWOWOWOWOW" while getting sucked in.

As for its gameplay, it's fundamentally a zoner with lingering hazards that debuff rather than directly damage, gaining more offensive potential the more inflictions it can in-fact inflict. It feels like a properly executed take on that one MYM6 set I used to denounce. I like how the debuffs are all stacking variants on slowing enemy attacks, it's exhausting its prey like the sleep deprivation torture in its backstory.

It's also cool how opponents can use the lockers as cover, allowing them some way of defending themselves even when Dredge has a bunch of effects going on. There's a supernatural tug of war around these lockers I haven't seen since highschool gym class. One thing I'm unsure of is, can the lockers be pushed around through the air? USmash and DAir both specifically mention their uses for locker repositioning.

Down and Up specials should reaaaalllly be on the opposite inputs. Gloaming is a teleport and presumably recovery technique, and Dissolution is a big buff.

Since this thing seems to feed off aggression and violence, it would make sense for there to be a way to gain power from enemy aggression. The simplest solution would be for Nightfall to charge up when Dredge takes damage, which would be most useful against hardcore rushdowners that are going to bully Dredge heavily while it tries to get things going.

Beedrill by Artic Tern
After Dredge, it's time for the true horror: A wasp! I don't care if it's named "Beedrill", that thing is clearly shaped like Earth's own harbinger of death.

The core design of the thing is great. It wants to act like real stingy bugs and fly back and forth in your face until you try to swat it away, then it punishes you for the thing it provoked you to do. It just needs Sweet Scent to summon a soda bottle it can teleport to if the opponent tries to pick it up. Little things like FTilt's pseudo-dodge and DSmash's hop allow it to "fly" around the ground while saving its safer movement for proper aerial combat.

The poison effects feel true to Bee/Wasp venom, at least for human standards. Getting stung once sucks, getting stung multiple times leads to quick death. I wish bee allergies could be cured by just slapping the thing that stung me. It might even be a bit TOO easy to remove the poison effect, since it has exactly one unsafe attack to even add poison in the first place.

Curious how 2/3 of the MYM27 sets I've read so far have aerials with rapid-strike held variants. Held NAir should be renamed to "Beezerker" ;)

Focus Energy is a neat idea, but I feel like FSmash is the flat-out correct choice 99% of the time. Taking a slow smash attack from "unsafe on shield" to "instant shieldbreak" seems too good to pass up, especially when it's so hard to gain the buff to begin with; I'm not gonna waste it to make one of the weak spammy attacks slightly stronger for one use, especially since that means I now have to forgo using that attack in the situations it's meant to be relied on.

I think a different animation for the grab may in order. It seems like the grab stuff is meant to be important with some of the more out-there effects being contained within, yet the clumsy animation for actual grabbing makes it seem like grabs should be rare niche options. A cool animation would be for it to latch on with its hind legs, which would then position its rear stinger nicely for Venoshock. Then the pummel gets to be face-stabbing.
 

Arctic Tern

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 12, 2022
Messages
129
DRIFTER (Majora)

Drifter is a neat little set centered around trash. By hitting the opponent with strong enough moves, or landing certain attacks, she can build up a scrap meter that amps her moveset in various ways. The most notable is by making items, which can buff Drifter’s footstool chances, add a sweetspot to her moves, or flatly boost the damage of physical attacks. While the buffs from these are fairly minimal, they can stack, and she can get an increase to these buffs by getting the rarest item, which allows her to potentially double the stacks. It’s a fairly interesting mechanic that doesn’t force the player to memorize a bunch of item combinations since the buffs are passive, and I especially like how Drifter is incentivized to hold onto Scrap since being hit with enough can potentially drop an item.

The set outside of the mechanic capitalizes on the Scrap mechanic in interesting ways. SSpec is the most prominent, enabling Drifter to create cubes that she can hit at opponents in various arcs with her moves, and potentially stack the damage by placing them on top of the other. USpec is a simple move, but its ability to be canceled into DSpec, which automatically gives her Scrap if she lands it, gives it a good amount of utility regardless since otherwise DSpec is slow. Drifter’s smashes all expend Scrap when charged to give them a boost in range, allowing them to potentially punish spot dodges or force trips that she can punish with scrap cubes. Lastly, DThrow can potentially place the foe inside of a scrap cube, letting her potentially push them off stage.

Drifter as a moveset is largely at its best when interacting with the scrap mechanic. The moves that don't aren’t really bad, as none of them are particularly overpowered or redundant, but they aren’t really wowing either. It also doesn’t actually mention the exact increase on the footstool window provided by Headstompers (not really a stickling point since footstools are a super minor part of the metagame) or the knockback buffs of the Boxing Gloves (which very much is - +.1 for every copy seems right). Lastly, there is a bit of confusing writing in Drifter’s mechanics section; it’s said to cap at 100%, but the paragraph before implies it caps at 20%. The latter statement is meant to refer to the amount of scrap Drifter fills by attacking, since none of her moves deal 30% or over normally, but it’s worded in such a way that it seems to refer to the meter itself. On a related note, the damage increase on the Lens-Maker’s Glasses means that she can deal over 30% if she sweetspots, so it would be neat if she could fill 30% of her scrap meter in one hit, a suitable reward for getting lucky and landing the specific hitbox.

This is a fairly simple set, presumably intentionally so given what the setmaker has talked about working on in chat, but for what it is Drifter is still a solid set that gets the character’s playstyle in Risk of Rain across very well.

BLOOD FALCON (Dae)

I did not expect to read a 50k moveset for any character, let alone a F-Zero character. Nevertheless, I’m certainly happy someone took up the challenge of doing so, especially since you generally only have a character design and a bit of lore to work with.

Blood Falcon, despite what you may expect, isn’t exactly a clone of the good Captain - his moves certainly take a good bit of inspiration from him, but all of them are very different in application. Much like in the actual games, despite his superficial similarities to Falcon Blood plays very differently, focused on flashy hard reads and committal approaches at the expense of being very punishable if he guesses incorrectly. He does have safer moves such as UTilt and to a lesser extent NAir, but for the most part his gameplan is centered around dirty tricks that his counterpart doesn’t have. Jab has two finishers, one that is fast and shieldpokes and the other being slow enough to catch out, but impossible to punish if Blood isn’t hit out of it. He has two ground burst movement tools in FTilt and Dash Attack, with the former being faster and safer and the latter being much stronger if it connects properly. And since no evil Falcon clone would be complete without them, Blood also has a few funny moves, like a super laggy DTilt that kills ridiculously early and an unblockable FSmash that is more worth it for the threat than anything else.

Despite the character being incredibly simple - “edgy Falcon clone” - a surprising amount of character is put into the set. Blood Falcon’s kit has deliberate similarities to Captain’s, such as a NAir that can be looped into itself and a slamming throw that continues the combo, but several differences. The famous Falcon stomp, for example, is the BAir, and instead of being a kill tool its a versatile combo tool hampered by being much worse for securing offstage kills than its counterpart. Blood’s Falcon Dive equivalent is an actual dive that acts as a command grab, giving him great offstage presence combined with his excellent recovery. The shoulder charge is his FAir, a super neat take on the angleable charge move with neat combo applications, and also does what Captain doesn’t and references actual F-Zero techniques. And while I’m fairly sure this was accidental, his USmash is solely dedicated to being an OoS option, calling to mind how Smash 64 Falcon had one of the best OoS USmashes in the game since it came out on frame 4. They’re similar enough to the original moves to be recognizable, but different enough that Blood Falcon doesn’t come off as a clone, while also giving him a combo and read game just as, if not more flashy than his rival’s.

The Specials are last, but they’re all very cool. NSpec is Blood Falcon’s Falcon Punch equivalent, but instead of a hard hit it applies a buff to him that improves his mobility and buffs the knockback of his kill moves but not his combo moves, making both even deadlier. SSpec is a take on Raptor Boost that is meant to outright mock it - puny Captain goes a limited distance and only punches when close to the foe, while Blood can go as far as he wants at super speed and punch whenever he feels like it, at the cost of very frequently being too fast to control. USpec is a self-launching move with slow startup, but very fast acting superarmor that lets Blood escape shield pressure in unconventional manners while also being weirdly safe if he doesn’t hit a shield. Finally, DSpec is a clone of Ganon’s old USmash, which comes out slow but has much less endlag than it should and enables him to get a ton of pressure off, especially since he can charge the move to mess with shield timing and the knockback properties ensure getting hit by it is bad for the opponent regardless of percent. I like the idea of increasing the endlag if Blood spams it too much, as incentive for the player to git gud with it instead of just spamming it, and it doesn’t feel overpowered since he lacks in so many other areas, such as general safety and anti-airs.

As someone who mained Bowser in Smash 4, I can safely vouch for the dopamine levels playing as a big unga-bunga berserker gives, and Blood Falcon is an excellent example of such. I’d pick him over that insufferably honest Captain anyday!

BOWSER (Tortoise)

As I said in the above comment, I was a Bowser main in Smash 4, so seeing a rework is pretty interesting and fairly hype given the character’s variety of abilities. This interpretation stays fairly close to his current playstyle, but with more of an emphasis on baiting him out to punish him like a true boss fight. To aid this, Bowser has some tricks of his sleeve, such as a surprisingly long-ranged FAir to catch out attempts to outspace him and a super fast initial dash that comes at the expense of not having a standard run. It reminded me a lot of Bedman’s movement in Guilty Gear Xrd, where his walk is absurdly fast but his dash is more of a special in disguise than a dash. Bowser’s animations here are also very fun, in particular his NAir, BAir, and FSmash, and while I’m not sure on his DTilt being a lava trap with no real hitbox it does help set up for his strong USpec.

While it’s certainly an interesting take on the character, ultimately as admitted by the playstyle section it doesn’t diverge that much from the canon Bowser. I’m not sure on DAir being random as well, since it means that he has no control over what shell he launches when they all have different effects; maybe they could cycle or be charged in some form? The doc also states that Bowser doesn’t have as much OoS options as in canon, but I’m not sure if that’s really a weakness; USpec starts up 1 frame faster than Whirling Fortress, already one of the best OoS tools in the game, and is a very strong kill move to boot. On that subject, it also has an uppercut activated by holding the A button, but with how fast the move is to start up there’s no way the casual player is getting it - a simple “tap B for uppercut, hold for grab” would be easier and more intuitive. Bowser as a whole still works, and doesn’t feel particularly overpowered due to his big body status and punishable combo breakers, but these mechanical issues combined with not really breaking from the mold hurt the set quite a bit.

Overall, Bowser is a very unique take on one of the most iconic of villains, oozing characterization on every move. While it ultimately doesn’t do that much to stand out, I still recommend reading this for an experience like almost nothing else in the contest’s history.

Link to full comment repository here!
 
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Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,258
Location
Australia
I’m fond of your anime character choices, so I wasn’t expecting a remake of an existing Smash character… if this character can even be called Bowser. This might be the first time someone has made something of an OC eldritch abomination for a Smash character, and the fact that you went so far as to make original artwork for it rocks. We don’t get that often in movesets.

Okay, the idea of a character who has a really fast initial dash (but no full dash) and better dash frames than Sheik is a cool and bold concept. Gives the impression of “Bowser” being one of those horror entities that jumpscares and rushes at you out of nowhere. The regular attacks are short but have applications outlined for them, with Dash Attack being a fun multiplier against shields while crossing them up. Seems to have a solid amount of end lag on miss.

D-tilt is a real oddball among the regular attacks, as it creates a puddle of lava (though not sure how wide it is?) that literally functions as a short-lived trap that pops opponents up when they touch it. I wonder what happens if you use the move at the ledge? Steve’s own Down Tilt comes to mind there. The move has low frame data and would probably be decent as a melee attack without the lingering lava, which does make the move feel a bit strong even with the 1.5 second cooldown. Also, I assume that foes who get shield-trapped in the lava can escape before its 3 second duration? Because otherwise that’s downright insane on a frame 5 hitbox that can lock foes into having their shield broken with F-Smash.

  • Might be a good idea to move the grab range data down before the throws, so it’s easier to remember and looks more in-place organization wise.
  • With that said, F-throw is wild for its insane recoil damage, and I am all for that type of move conceptually. Space yourself with the knockback, use the damage to build up your rage further and just get early KOs on your opponent. I like the fact that Bowser can tech after using the throw to recover more quickly and avoid being flung back if need-by.
  • N-air is another funny high-powered self-damaging move. It and many moves before it characterize “Bowser” as trying to act like the real Bowser, only to have it fail and backfire as a result.
  • B-air feels pretty similar to regular Bowser’s B-air. That move is a pretty prominent part of Bowser’s kit from what I understand, being a scary powerful kill move Bowser can try to fish for in neutral.
  • It seems that most of “Bowser”s down-hitting moves are strange, as D-air is an RNG projectile that flies downwards, somewhat contrary to Bowser’s stall-then-fall D-air.
  • Neutral Special is a respectable neutral projectile “Bowser” can follow behind (effectively so, from what I imagine with its high initial dash), though I think 17% is a bit too much for a projectile that can be comboed from. 10% might be better.
  • I like the concept of Down Special being a strong stall-then-fall that breaks your shell when you land, but changes your stats. It is strange that Down Special deals more damage without your shell, though: getting a 1.5x damage boost from it feels a bit too powerful.

While a fun little set, some of the more gimmicky attacks like F-throw and D-air feel a bit random and not as justified in the set as they could be, and there are a few moves that feel a bit too overpowered right now.

A tall, floaty character with a lot going for his stats, Sigma has some immediate appeal in his stronger shield that’s easy to poke and serves as a resource for other moves, traits I’ve played around with on separate occasions. Always a fan of sets that mess around with shields. We’ve seen a good few barriers in MYM, but I like how this one doesn’t block dashes or stop knockback (as fun as the latter can be). I am normally conscious of constructs and minions being able to block off projectiles, but this is one of those cases where it feels completely justified, as Sigma really needs it given his bad heavyweight combination. The way a moving barrier bumps foes along feels very fair too.

  • I don’t think Up Special mentions how fast Sigma drifts upwards, but I assume he does so at a moderate pace so his recovery isn’t too easy to exploit, as well as making combos surrounding it more feasible.
  • Crazy to see a moveset reference a Final Smash in one of its Specials! What is this, Citizen V 0.2? I am happy to see Final Smashes integrated into main gameplay, though.
  • Minor item manipulation on Up Special gets some wide-eyes from me, even if it’s just a minor interaction.
  • Giving Sigma the ability to microspace himself on the start-up of his Specials, from what I’ve seen so far, is a smart way to give him some extra viability and cover for his weaknesses.
  • Aah, I get what you’re talking about with slamming a boulder into the side of the stage and picking up the debris with your Up Special. Fun little interaction, reminds me of stuff like K. Rool firing his cannon against the side of the stage to make the cannonball bounce.
  • I also enjoyed Side Special’s self-recycling aspect of pulling in items to power up your boulder and doing this from a previous Side Special, but Sigma’s slow movement and necessity to have the boulder break against something to shed items mean this is not guaranteed from each Side Special. I was genuinely expecting a hard interaction where Sigma could bounce his boulder off of his Experimental Barrier, MYM style, but I can’t imagine him doing that in Overwatch. I appreciate the restraint you had with this boulder, as it would have been easy to go full ham like an old Warlord set and make it a rolling entity that can stop in place and be used as a solid construct or platform and so on.
  • Down Special is a simple but serviceable move in the style of Oil Panic and PSI Magnet, giving Sigma a way to get shield HP back earlier and possibly transition into his Side Special more effectively (good for countering those campers in the first place, I’d say).

  • D-Smash is kind of fun with F-Smash, and its weird unique grab retimer that doesn’t apply to Sigma’s regular grab. Never really thought about playing with grab retimers in that way.
  • Sigma’s unorthodox Jab gives me Magneto vibes. I like the idea of an unusually quick and effective regular attack with a logical cooldown to it, and making use of the Experimental Barrier to bounce them around to control when they explode at their max distance, but I’m a little unsold in their execution with barriers. Mainly because it sounds like that foes who get hit by the spheres on their way out won’t get hit by their blasts if the spheres are spaced and bounced back towards them through barriers. I do like the gameplay implication that hiding behind a Sigma barrier keeps foes safe from his spheres, as easy as it is for Sigma to just drop the barrier.
  • Dash Attack sounds kind of OP until you see that Sigma can be grabbed out of his indefinite rush.
  • It feels like there could be a bit “more” to D-tilt, as its implications of “this primarily goes into Sigma’s good grab” feels a bit narrow-minded in execution.

  • F-air having a wind hitbox that lets you drag opponents high or low where you excel aerially is neat.
  • I like disjointed aerials that leave a static hitbox behind. B-air’s multi-hitting hitbox has a unique dynamic with Sigma’s moveset, where it keeps foes trapped for Sigma to hit, but since it uses the hyperspheres it limits the ways that Sigma can score follow-ups! Might be my favourite idea in this set.
  • D-air gets some nice mileage out of Sigma’s fast fast fastfall with its dragging properties.
  • U-air kind of reminds me of Goldenglow’s U-air if I am remembering correctly, where it’s a dragging multi-hit attack with a stronger hitbox at the end that you want to drag opponents into for max efficiency. It’s particularly funky that Sigma can bounce the spheres off of ledges to send them downwards, making further use of his air game.
  • B-throw has a funky “this throw can be dodged” gimmick that I would do from time-to-time. I’m admittedly not sure if the reward if super worth the 50/50 Sigma has to go through when activating B-throw, or whether the black hole’s knockback should be vertical.
  • Minor nitpick on U-throw: “ As one of his strongest attacks, it’s worth trying to go for this a few times off BThrow, but wary opponents may opt to ” this sentence cuts off earlier than you intended.

  • “Side Taunt: Sigma performs a classic HMA pose, floating just off the stage while he crosses his arms and glowers for a moment.” I will remember this, particularly the part about the aforementioned pose being associated with Heavyweight Male Antagonists.

Overall, I think Nonon beat out Sigma as far as your non-Jamcon opening day sets go, as Sigma’s concepts and execution felt more tame. Nonetheless, he is a solid way to start MYM27, as he has some pretty fun moves in his set, and he has some simple and consistent logic with how items can be used to power up his attacks or his hyperspheres can bounce off of surfaces.

I also have to give this set props for what felt like a unique moveset archetype we don’t see a lot of in modern MYM: a heavyweight who trades power for faster, practical attacks and raw survivability with his strong shield and amazing recovery, focusing more on winning battles of attrition rather than big hits. He might be one of the better implementations of the “tank” genre in a MYM moveset, though it does help that Sigma’s Overwatch playstyle and his powerset make him well-suited to being a tank in Smash - most tanks, like great-shielder characters, wouldn’t have the perk of floatiness and would be harder to translate as faithfully in a platform fighter. It has actually given me a better idea of how to go about a moveset for Maple from BOFURI - it’s always great when a moveset does that for you, so Sigma might end up being one of the more influential sets I’ve read so far in MYM27.

I am not too familiar with Terraria aside from the fact that it is heavily associated with mods, but just seeing that this character is a random NPC makes him come across as a hilariously niche choice for a moveset. But nah, you didn’t make this moveset -for- the character it is a moveset for, but rather an event that he is associated with. Reminds me of Khold’s moveset for the Lon Lon Ranch. Oh, and this might be the first moveset ever made where you are technically playing as a boat. I am all for that. The stats write-up and mechanic section alone might make this your funniest moveset to date. I don’t know if Angler actually says the quote below his image, but it sure is a powerful quote and says a lot about him.

It’s funny when the set’s moonphases are similar to Ilyana’s biorhythm mechanic from last contest, but they feel more simplified here. I kind of like the flavour of the Blood Moon being RNG-related, since it’s a nature-based event the Angler doesn’t have direct control over. It does feel infrequent and chance-based enough that it comes down to “Angler only has a one-in-four chance of this crazy thing happening” 12 seconds into a quicker match, but that’s just a narrow-minded way of looking at it, and realistically I imagine that longer timed and multi-stock matches would take longer than 2 minutes anyway. Probably not the type of character for players who don’t want to rely on chance.

Up Special is a fun move. It might be undertuned as a recovery, since you have to wait 30 frames to rise and only get 2.5 grids of movement from it, but you can also move away from the dynamite you set in your magic water to use as a delayed hitbox against opponents, and set another stick of dynamite yourself to chase after them. The other Specials are comparatively simple, but Down Special is a unique take on old “Ingrain” moves in old Pokemon movesets that rooted the fighter in place, as it prevents the Angler from being moved around by most of his movement-based attacks. Likewise, Side Special does the opposite and enhances the movement on Angler’s movement-based attacks, effectively being a stance change.

F-tilt is where the moves start to get longer and make use of the Blood Moon, by giving Angler two-in-one for his attacks. That F-tilt is unique, as Angler fishes out a few fish, gets to use them as throwing weapons and is encouraged to capitalize on the speed cut from them as soon as possible, especially if he throws them all at once. U-tilt is equally crazy for setting airborne bubble traps, but I think making them explode and punishing opponents who hit them is a bit too strong. Also a bit unsure what it means by the bubbles following Angler if they stay in place - I assume it means he can move during the attack. Bloodmoon U-tilt is fun for being able to create a semi-custom minion by using the move multiple times, but it does feel a bit easy to throw up. Neither U-tilt states how long the bubbles or flying fish last for, with the latter coming across as a straight-up minion. I like minions, but if I remember correctly, FA said in the chat that you are not fond of minions.

Bloodmoon F-Smash is wild, and the set really sells just how horribly dangerous the hemogoblin shark is with how it can deal more damage than the final boss. Its attack feels like a beefed-up Akechi II Side Special on a disjointed entity, but it can also pull along the Angler (unless he’s anchored, that helps to give Down Special extra relevancy) or even hit him if foes outmaneuver the shark.

  • “He looks pretty excited about it! But of course, who cares what the Angler wants? We want this to hit people.” I love this line.
  • The actual move is surprisingly fun, as it’s essentially Snake’s U-Smash that can bounce off of surfaces and even be hit to alter its launch trajectory, something that I assume the Angler can do unless he’s locked into the move’s end lag until the Clubberfish leaves. Otherwise you have your U-tilt bubble interaction for that. I think the Clubberfish is too powerful for a long-reaching U-Smash that doesn’t have high lag though, especially when it deals high damage to shields and opponents.
  • N-air is a funny little Special-like move, given it has a cooldown attached to it and a different control scheme of recalling the piranha when it’s attached to an opponent.
  • I could see D-air being used as a drag-down aerial to transition into your ground game, and the fastfall variant to bash through opponents.
  • I of course like D-throw for producing a prop. It could do with a lot more elaboration though, like how far the box flies when attacked and how much damage it deals, among similar lines to Drifter’s scrap cubes or so. The last line also implies that D-throw buries opponents on use: it feels like Angler could do a ton with that kind of set-up, especially if he has a box that he could knock up and have come back down to hit the opponent as they escape being buried (which might be powerful). Actually, Angler might not be great at that given his U-tilt and U-air aren’t conventional launchers, in which case that’s some pretty clever balance design.

Criticisms-wise, I think some of the moves get a bit too over-the-top, and it can be a little hard to process how some of these big crazy projectiles and disjointed moves mesh with each other and Angler, as creative as they can be with moves like U-air. Neutral Special also feels very underelaboarted-upon in its implications: it lets him fish up twice as many fish on his next fishing move, which is self-explanatory on his F-tilt, but what happens if he does this on his other moves like his Smashes? I can’t see the Angler fishing up two sharks at the same time from his F-Smash, for instance. In spite of this, Angler just might take the cake for being your wildest set yet: on top of attack ideas, his various props and their lore made for some extra entertaining reading, on top of the moveset being funny from start to end.

Note: I previewed this moveset before MYM27. This comment is from then, and the moveset appears to have remained unchanged since then.

Another loaded Guilty Gear opener from Tern, one with some great osts at that, A.B.A is more of an extreme heavyweight who utilizes super modes compared to Dizzy from last contest. Mechanics or attacks that involve self-damage are always appealing to me, and the fact that A.B.A can use Displacement to receive a net gain from all the self-damage she sustained. It encourages her to get aggressive in her Moroha state. Moroha is handled pretty well - I don’t think I’ve seen many sets utilize the tumbling state fighters enter when they take higher knockback. It is put to good use here as an incentive for A.B.A entering her Moroha state at lower percents.

Suka Motion leaves A.B.A open for 1.5 seconds when her Moroha gauge runs out. I am for A.B.A having an extra weakness stacked against her Moroha state, but I can see how the stun would be super crippling, especially if A.B.A was forced out of her Moroha state early due to being thrown or sent tumbling. Maybe Suka State only lasts for half as long in those cases? I get the impression that Suka Motion was one of the areas you specifically wanted feedback on for this set, and my first thought is that it wouldn’t hurt for A.B.A’s stun to be brought down to one second (even when factoring in that SM kicks in when your end lag starts if you were in the middle of an attack).

I also wonder how Suka Motion interacts with knockback and hitstun? Would it interrupt A.B.A’s momentum, and possibly keep her safe from being attacked if she was sent flying far away or close to being KO’ed? It’s not a dealbreaker if these details go unmentioned, but I think there’s room to clarify on this. Personally, I wouldn’t dock points against this set even if Suka Motion was left as-is.

  • I like the dynamic of A.B.A being slow but gaining Tension over time as she approaches, as she’ll take more time to approach due to moving slowly.
  • Slashback giving A.B.A more Tension for parrying faster attacks is good. I like counters that reward fighters for countering faster attacks.

I don’t know if this means much, but I think you did a good job with GM’s balance. A.B.A gets to do crazy cancels with her Standards and Aerials, but she still has a lot of drawbacks: can’t cancel Smashes, can only do 5 cancels in a row, can’t cancel against shields, suffers 85% in recoil and 2.5 seconds of “lag” when she exits the state. If anything, the combined drawbacks might be too extreme - maybe bring the self-damage and inactive time down to 50% and 1.5 seconds respectively?

There’s a lot to A.B.A’s moveset, but I’ll point out some parts that I liked. The Specials and Tension Attacks felt simple and more quantity over quality to some degree, but I liked how Blunder works as an anti-shield attack in the context of A.B.A’s game, especially when A.B.A can cancel into it when she hits a shield. Reasonably fair given she has to be in Moroha mode. I wasn’t expecting A.B.A’s Up Smash to reuse Dizzy’s mechanics, but it’s good stuff for people who like consistency between attacks and gameplay among characters from the same series. Jab being a proximity-based attack is quite cool and one of my favourite parts of the set, alongside Dash Attack: that Moroha Dash Attack is a tripper while normal Dash Attack is a power move, the former being a burst attack that serves as an anti-roll option when A.B.A has some good threatening anti-shield options. I also like Moroha Neutral Air’s applications as a quick punchy move in the context of A.B.A’s ability to air dash when she’s under Goku Moroha.

While A.B.A is extremely long and had a lot of effort put into her, she doesn’t quite have the same appeal to me as your higher sets, being around the same level as Nui Harime. It might be that A.B.A’s moveset was very straightforward, having a lot of options to talk about and focusing more on combos and moves that are safe on shield vs not and so on. Ironically, A.B.A’s grab game was surprisingly MYM’ian and arguably my favourite section in her moveset. Her B-throw is a tether that is exclusive to her normal mode, giving her an incentive to go for her grab before she goes Moroha, while her Moroha Up Throw refills one of her blood bags and Moroha Down Throw uses a blood bag for a highly damaging blood vomit. You don’t need to know A.B.A’s source material to guess that she does none of those in Guilty Gear, but I quite enjoyed how wild you were willing to go on a section of moves you had to make up. The throws tie into A.B.A’s mechanics in an arguably more appealing way than most of her attacks, reminding me of some of your cooler throws like Remilia and Madame Verre. I think that they just benefitted from not being tied down to needing to translate one of A.B.A’s Guilty Gear attacks into Smash, allowing them to have more of a Tern flair.
 

Arctic Tern

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 12, 2022
Messages
129
SIGMA (Slavic)

Sigma is a HMA with the requisite boulder Special, but with unusual stats for the archetype that heavily influence how he is played. He’s incredibly slow on the ground, but much faster in the air, with immensely floaty fall speed and an absurd fast fall increase. Additionally, while Sigma’s shield is more durable than most other characters’, his large frame makes it easier to shield poke him, meaning he often struggles at close range. To make up for this, he has various anti-camping tools such as a NSpec barrier that he can quickly activate that stuffs projectiles and non-committal movement and a DSpec that absorbs projectiles and items and converts them into fuel for his barrier. And if the foe doesn’t have projectiles, then his SSpec boulder spawns rubble that Sigma can use for it, as well as interact with a few of his other moves.

While a lot of Sigma’s attacks are fairly basic in form, they meld together in a way that forms a fittingly cerebral playstyle. His FSmash is a big strong ranged move that works well with barriers and gains an increase in power if used with rubble from SSpec. FAir has Sigma make a black hole that serves as a rejection tool on a character with a lot of edgeguarding tools, with the windbox on it combined with his fall speed and excellent recovery letting him potentially drag the foe to the lower blast zone to increase the normally underwhelming kill percents. That’s not to say there aren’t weirder attacks, such as his hypersphere moves, which create a projectile that is only at its most effective when landed at a certain distance and briefly deprive him of moves involving them while they’re out. However, they can also be rebounded off of Sigma’s barrier to futz with the spacing on the projectiles, and BAir allows him to potentially keep the opponent in place for him to follow up with other moves. Additionally, the hypersphere moves become weak jabs that are meant to serve as combo fillers while they are out; while I’m iffy on this info being placed at the last move since it means that the set doesn’t talk about the possible combos with it, it does add a certain rhythm to them that I like.

Sigma overall plays like a midrange character, but he is incentivized to get in close due to his strong throws. He has some simpler throws, like a damage throw that leads to a getup and a spacer throw that becomes stronger with rubble, but he also has weirder ones like a UThrow that changes properties depending on the foe’s damage. The weirdest is easily the BThrow, which creates a black hole that sets up for Sigma’s combo game if the opponent falls in it and enforces 50/50s he can punish with his slower moves. There’s not really much to complain about; everything here is meant to serve a purpose in a very unconventional playstyle, and it’s clearly all done to serve the character. The only real issues are that the set doesn’t specify how fast the SSpec boulder moves nor how fast Sigma moves upwards during his USpec (and an incomplete sentence on BThrow’s third paragraph). Otherwise, while I probably wouldn’t play as him just because he feels weird, it’s a great adaptation of his kit in-game and something I would appreciate.

THE ANGLER (Majora)

The Angler is a moveset based around fishing… or rather, fishing in a nightmare world where all the fish are trying to kill you. Spending the entire match on a boat, several of the Angler’s moves work based on fishing up fish, which vary based on the Blood Moon mechanic. This is an effect that alters the damage of fish-based attacks based on the phases of the moon, which serve as a cycle, but the longer it progresses the more of a chance there is to spawn a Blood Moon, which vastly alter these attack’s properties. It all works out to a very chaotic feeling set where the Angler is playing vastly differently based on the phase of the moon, with several fun moves like the UAir that can combo into itself and the DSmash that summons a controllable, ground based projectile. His NSpec is also a decently cool move, letting him double down on the number of fish he spawns, with this becoming a mindgame in Blood Moon since the typical tell (the water being red) is always the case here.

But while it’s certainly a fun idea, as a set there doesn’t seem to be any real playstyle or goal other than some degree of range play and stage control, relying entirely on the Angler’s moves being gimmicky. There’s barely any combos listed, only a few kill moves with no real method of landing them stated, and plenty of the moves have bizarre properties, like a Blood Moon UTilt that spawns a pseudo-minion that can be increased by using the move again. DSpec, which summons an anchor that slows his movement, has the primary purpose of making it so moves that automatically move the Angler don’t, but it feels fairly disjointed since there’s only 5 moves that are affected by this, and two of them are only available in Blood Moon. If most of his moves did so regardless of Blood Moon this would be perfectly acceptable, but as it isn’t it just feels like it’s here for Dash Attack to have a gimmick. There’s also little mention of how the lack of damage (and thus knockback) in certain phases of the moon affects the Angler’s combos, nor how SSpec’s movement buff does.

I’m not really sure why this character, whose entire personality is fishing, does not have it on a Special. The tilts’ effects could easily be transplanted onto here, since they behave more like Specials than tilts, without losing anything, and they could easily be filled with normal attacks that give the Angler some much needed means to fend the foe off at close range. Blood Moon FSmash also seems quite a bit overpowered, since the Goblin Shark deals over 70% damage when it comes out and he can summon two of them at once. While we’re on the Smashes, normal USmash lists the damage it does charged and uncharged - separate values - before immediately stating that the damage doesn’t change with charge. Finally, the Aerials get a bit into tacky territory with the Angler pulling out fish themed weapons that he never actually uses in-game; I can see why you’d do it since it’s not like he can fish in the air, but it is a bit strange seeing as all of his normals involve fishing.

Overall, while the Angler isn’t without some fun ideas and concepts, they’re implemented in ways that feel more awkward and detrimental to playing him than rewarding. There’s definitely potential in the concept, it just needs to be ironed out a bit.

Link to full comment repository here!
 

Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,258
Location
Australia
Love to see you dipping into a modern Darkstakers moveset - I remember Smady bringing it up before in modern MYM, and how some of the attacks characters use are super MYM’ian (like B.B Hood having an attack where she cries massive tears). I think this is the third B.B Hood moveset we’ve gotten, actually, and it’s intriguingly not as long as other modern fighting game movesets. I remember a similar pursuit mechanic being used in Waku Waku 7 and thought it would work very well in a Smash moveset, so it was surprising to see that it’s in Darkstalkers (probably came first there?) and that B.B Hood makes use of it. Here the mechanic is reworked a little to work on tumbling opponents as well as those who are prone, the former meaning you can use throw it out after dealing some good knockback (but not too much). I like that the mechanic has a good amount of restraint behind it, like Hood’s pursuit being avoidable and a once-per-air-trip scenario, as well as the fact that it can backfire on her if she gets too trigger happy and jumps too far off the stage (even if she gets some downwards knockback from it if she hits).

We’ve had fighting game sets like MYM22 Hugo that incorporated stage walls from their source material for their throws, but this set takes a unique spin on high/mid/low block system of some traditional fighting games by having a low missile deal extra shield damage! I like Side Special’s built-in mix-up of one missile forcing shields and the other forcing jumps that the other can beat out, and giving B.B Hood an opening to approach if she is successful in catching out her opponent. Incorporating the charge mechanics of fighting games is unique too: I’m not entirely sure if the control scheme behind holding the control stick backwards to charge a Side Special is feasible, since you’d imagine that B.B Hood would simply aim Side Special behind her, but I’m guessing that her auto-turn mechanic makes it work. The midair missile that flies diagonally downwards dealing more damage in exchange for being harder to land is a good touch too, overall giving the Side Special input a good amount to it.

  • F-Smash has a unique take on one of B.B Hood’s attack animations, and is fun for its “quick weak hitbox and slow powerful hitbox that don’t combo into each other.” Specifically, an attack that is implemented in such a way that it is technically more powerful against opponents who are shielding, a great take on anti-shield options that isn’t a grab or unblockable attack. At first I thought Hood’s kick came out on frame 6, but didn’t factor in that the charge hold brings its total starting lag up to frame 15, making its reward against shields more justified. Hope B.B Hood doesn’t have to fight against Yoshi or any other fighters with non-shrinking shields.
  • This might be the first time I’ve seen a Jab 2 leave opponents in prone. Actually surprisingly cool, because you can use and delay Jab 3’s low upwards knockback to mess their tech attempts to bait out air dodges.
  • Dash Attack is a welcome slow attack that’s scary at the ledge, and flows surprisingly well into B.B Hood’s anti-roll options by virtue of it being so slow and easy to predict.
  • D-tilt is a quirky little move with its buffed second hitbox that deals extra hitstun and shieldstun, the latter offering reads and learning about shielding habits, but is trickier to land against more damaged opponents.
  • B-air is a return to the good old “hard to input on an auto-turn fighter, but is more rewarding than usual.” I like it.
  • D-air is a good move for how it links into Hood’s pursuit game.
  • “As a more minor note, the nature of the animation may make the foe think the FAF is slower than it actually is, allowing her to occasionally get away with landing more hits than she otherwise would.” You know, this actually makes sense, and while it is a small psychological thing it is worth thinking about.
  • I would normally question making opponents hold an object they were given in confusion, it partially reminds me of MYM12 Captain Hook, but it’s more justified here because it’s an actual thing from the Darkstalkers game.
  • B.B Hood’s close-ranged Final Smash reminds me of when Smady posted that image and said it/Darkstalkers would give people a MYM’ian heart attack.

While B.B’s hoods concepts and Specials are relatively basic for the most part, I found the latter more compelling than Alucard’s largely due to Side Special, in addition to having consistently more interesting attacks and a well-executed gameplan. Beedrill is still my favourite of your trifecta of shorter entries, but B.B Hood is very close behind.
 

BridgesWithTurtles

Smash Champion
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Apr 18, 2013
Messages
2,173
Location
The long road to nowhere
3DS FC
3523-2059-7939
Some comments. Will try to leave more later. Maybe. No guarantee. I'm bad at this sort of thing.

Anyway.

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Mauga (Tunz)
I feel like "really big guy with really big machine gun" is a trope that comes up every now and again with MYM, and admittedly, they start to blur together for me sometimes. With that in mind, good idea not going with the boulder Up Smash, I suppose (though I don't recall boulders being particularly common with these kinds of characters).

I feel bad saying it, but to me, the moveset kind of lacks variety in the types of moves being employed (though I say this with my only set this contest so far being 90% composed of using an axe). A vast majority of the attacks can be described as "swipe the gun as a disjoint", which almost makes him feel more like your typical swordfighter moveset ot unga-bunga heavyweight than something that really takes advantage of his characteristic features in a unique way. Maybe that's true to the source material (I wouldn't know), but I found myself wishing there'd be a little more sauce and interplay with the Berserk mechanic or utilization of the guns as actual projectile weapons.

"I had no idea how to have Mauga attack behind himself without it being out of character or weird for him to do." I don't know anything about Overwatch so take this suggestion with a grain of salt, but I feel like Back Air could have been something like a turnaround smack with the guns, which would leave Mauga facing the opposite direction (like Marth's Bair), playing into the idea that he usually faces forward in a fight.

Not much else to say about this one. I've noticed a progression in your setmaking since last contest, and I'm looking forward to seeing you continue to use that momentum. This set doesn't really do much for me, but I appreciate the attention to detail with the characterization and what it's going for. Just think it needs a little something more to sell the concept. Hope this comment doesn't come off as overly harsh. I don't think it's bad; I just wanted to see more from it.

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Pumpkinmon (SaltySuicune)
Fitting that so much of the character resonates with Villager's moveset, given the "dimimutive axe murderer" connection.

I like how you single out K. Rool's cannonballs specifically as the one projectile that can easily beat out the pumpkin projectile. Makes sense, but oddly specific. Also, poor Bowser Jr. and his less-beefy cannonballs. That move always gets the short end of the stick.

Makes sense for the Halloween trickster to have an "annoying" playstyle with stuff like the spammable boomerang, easy out-of-shield escape option with the Up Special, and the flamethrower attack that never reduces in size and racks up huge damage to anyone who gets caught in it. One thing I wish the set did more of was play into that trickster angle. Elements like moves having more deceptive hitboxes, or imparting deleterious effects that trip up how the opponent responds would go a long way to fleshing out the character and his playstyle into something deeper. A lot of Pumpkinmon's attacks are fairly standard concepts for their archetype, resembling moves that Villager or Mario would use, and that actually makes him come off as a rather fair and "honest" character, ironically enough. Dair, as an attack that can be altered to either deal knockback or drag opponents into combos, is a move that does some of what I think more of his kit could tap into.

"This is a move from Digimon Savers: Another Mission, but I haven’t been able to find any footage of it nor do I have any way to play it myself so we’ll have to improvise with what little of a description I could find" This resonates so hard for so many of us, I'm sure.

"It is fast enough to be reliably used out of shield to start a combo with the first hit, the second one ain’t that good for combos but it can still help keep a established one going" This part confused me a little. If the second hit is meant to be a combo extender, it doesn't make much sense to tie it to a secondary input on a move whose first hit is a combo starter. It'd make more sense to be its own move so that it can convert off of other attacks. Maybe I'm thinking too hard about it.

I don't have a lot else to comment on. The set is pretty straightforward, and I do think it would benefit a lot from more complex moves. This is the kind of character where you could get a lot of personality out of fancy animations and weird effects, but the set feels a bit too restrained to tap into that potential.

Just as a minor suggestion, it would improve your sets' readability slightly (as well as the presentation) by implementing a little bit of formatting. The document is several pages longer than it needs to be, for instance, with large empty spaces between text. You probably already know, but in Docs, you can format images to wrap text around them, reducing the amount of dead space.

Therion.png
Therion (SaltySuicune)
I've always had a thing for movesets where the character is incredibly weak by normal Smash standards but can use some sort of gimmick to work around that handicap, so this set has some base level of appeal to me. It's interesting that Therion fills his boost gauge by dealing (or receiving) damage, because the boost mechanic itself is primarily used for increasing damage output. He'll really have to work for his first boost, with his moveset largely consisting of big-hit monstrosities like Up Tilt with that 2% damage output. Once he gets some boosts going, though, they largely pay for themselves, since a lot of his attacks can net 25% on just one or two hits with enough boosts applied. Part of me finds that very cool, though another part of me feels like the mechanic undermines itself in some sense because of that.

I'm a big fan of the Side Special knife throw. A very cool concept, having a health-draining move that the player can choose to gamble their boosts on to increase the amount healed. Similarly, using the boost to amplify his otherwise poor recovery is a nice touch as well. I do like how the boost mechanic isn't limited to just increasing the number of times a move will hit, and can have variable effects depending on what the move is. That said, I'm totally the kind of person who would never remember how each move changes at all the different boost levels.

Personally, I'm not a fan of the way the Down Special is capable of applying its effect for the entire remainder of a stock. Regardless of whether it's "fair" or not, I imagine a lot of players would find it very unfun to have their character's base stats significantly altered for entire swaths of a match simply because they got hit by an attack once. Even if it were put on an extended timer of something like 10-12 seconds, I think that would be more than serviceable for what the move is going for.

Most of the standards, aerials, and throws are fairly basic stuff, which can come off as slightly dry, but admittedly, this kind of character would probably benefit - in a gameplay sense - by having simple moves that take advantage of the boost mechanic in a noticeable, meaningful way without making things too busy or complicated. It's a hard balance to walk. Down Throw has a uniquely interesting animation and concept behind it, though, and I give bonus points for fun animations. Congrats to Nair for having an extremely funny animation as well.

While I think this set struggles to set itself apart from sets with similar mechanics we've seen before, as an in-Smash set appreciater, I do like it for achieving a degree of realism and actually feeling like something Sakurai himself might come up with. I do think it's a little bit stronger than Pumpkinmon, for what it's worth.

Also, this has nothing to do with the moveset itself, but the alt palettes you included look very nice! They seem to be references to other characters and such as well, and those kinds of alts in canon!Smash tend to be among the uglier ones in my opinion, so good job making referential alts that also look nice aesthetically.

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Fang (Hyper_Ridley)
Good to see old Fang (as well as an old setmaker) back in action, even if I haven't touched a Sonic game in who knows how long. I don't recall him having much to go off of, but maybe his recent appearances have given him some more material?

Well, the pop gun's there, as expected. It's a fun move, too. Wasn't expecting the ability to charge it for the giant version of the projectile, but it's a neat idea both mechanically and just for the cartoony flavor. Being able to jolt Fang around in the air with a charged shot also brings in a fair share of cartoon logic, and that sort of thing really fits with a character like this. This move would benefit from having more detail on the projectile's longevity and travel speed, though. A cork supposedly lasts for 4 seconds, but that seems like quite a long time unless it travels very slowly, but none of that is clearly specified.

Fang's main gimmick is his spring-loaded tail, and the set gets a lot of mileage out of it. I always like to see movesets explore mobility in a way that canon!Smash rarely seems to do, especially fitting when it comes to characters from the Sonic series. It'd definitely be a lot of fun to spring around the stage and harass players with gun shots. The oil ball special works well with this sense of fluidity, and I like how it affects both Fang and his opponents in various ways. Flaretrigger is another fun special that forces a response from the opponent, but I really like how it also forces Fang to do the same. It's a nice use of controlled chaos.

The Marvelous Queen is perhaps the most interesting part of the set. I find it a quite clever take on a recovery move that works really well at what it's meant to do in addition to having a variety of other functions...but at the same time, being a huge detriment to Fang's recovery if its additional functions are used carelessly.

Outside of the special, most of the moves are pretty straightforward and expected of the character, and there's some occasional nice synergy with things like the spring mechanic and oil slicks. I like the decision to give him a Nair as a Uair, and Dair is my favorite of the aerials, as I really enjoy the idea of the spring-loaded tail being used to cover for the move's landing lag. Down Throw deserves mention for its sheer cartoon slapstick factor, being an amusing animation with some good playstyle synergy to boot.

Overall a fun, easy read with a lot of personality in the writing. There's a breadth of fun ideas at play here, but I feel like some mechanics have some untapped potential. Would have liked to see a bit more implementation of the popgun, or some of the zanier moves from Sonic the Fighters in place of some of the more standard tail attacks, but I also understand why the tail receives so much emphasis in the moveset.
 

Hyper_Ridley

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 21, 2007
Messages
2,291
Location
Hippo Island
Pumpkinmon by SaltySuicune
Ooooo, a Digimon moveset.

It's a short-and-sweet stabby boi. This must be the reason why parents worry about razors hidden in the Halloween candy. I like how it uses its head axe as an actual weapon, it would be neat if side-special altered those attacks to some weak punches, maybe even keep the animation just without the axe hitboxes. Trick or Treat is also a unique arcing projectile with how it can spike enemies it falls onto, making it one of the scariest edge-guarding tools ever. That final smash also legitimately unsettled me, I don't like eye-related gore to begin with and having a goddamn Digimon do it is kinda messed up.

It might be a bit too similar to the Mario Bros. Not sure why this fella would be doing basic flip kicks and a giant swing BThrow. Is this meant to be a Mario counterpart for a Digimon fighter you're secretly developing? If so, I have some roster requests. Even just aesthetically I think there's room to differentiate him some more, like how DAir seems modeled after Mario's but has the fiery visuals. NAir could be a knife thrust (a sex knife, sounds painful), and BThrow could have him strike the enemy backwards with his axe, but the momentum has him spin around a few times like DSmash. Not sure what to do with UAir that isn't giving him an entirely new attack...🤔

Surprised Noble Pumpkin isn't incorporated, seeing as it's your favorite and Digimon fighters love their power-up Digivolution mechanics. Perhaps that's being saved for its own standalone moveset? ;)

Love the icey blue alt
 

tunz

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 4, 2022
Messages
25
SIGMA COMMENT
Sigma is one of my most played characters in Overwatch with me being mainly a tank player. I have golden Hyperspheres and everything! That's all to say that I know this guy probably about as well as you do. And with that being said, here's a list of things I liked enough to feel the need to point them out:
-I like all your little references to orchestral music, which is a part of Sigma I wouldn't necessarily expect to see incorporated anywhere in his actual moves.
-The shield resource system being connected to his regular shield, Experimental Barrier and Kinetic Grasp is not only a pretty big change from how it works in Overwatch, but also a good adaptation of an Overwatch mechanic into Smash! I'd say you made it work coherently and well.
-What would win, a literal black hole or one wind-ignorant Spinning Kong? Finally a good match-up for DK (good meaning slightly losing instead of hard losing). He'd be able to easily escape windbox moves like FAir and BThrow by just using USpec, and not being at risk to Sigma's usual FSmash airdodge reads. He even counters his Final Smash!
-Hyperspheres not detonating but instead bouncing off foes, and the fact that they also bounce off his barrier is an interesting change from how they work in Overwatch that, as you explain, adds depth to his game in a fun and tricky way without feeling too far from source material.
-Often when thinking of making sets for characters who don't really fight melee, including Sigma, I struggle to think of believable concepts for regular normals like Down Tilt and the like. Though here I feel like you've made the animations in character enough for me, a person with almost 2k hours in the game to reference from, to find them believable. Well done!
-The sheer length at which you write about some of the most basic moves, like the replacements for his Hypersphere moves, is impressive and educational (at least for me, a relatively new MYMer).
-The flavor is all very in character and I love the references to emotes and highlight intros.

And here's a list of concerns and the like:
-I feel like some of the damage percentages are a bit low? Like Up Smash for example, it only does 14% uncharged? It may just be that you're calculating these numbers before adding the 1v1 multiplier, or that I'm misunderstanding something, but I'm not sure.
-Not really a negative but I saw that under the 'Simple Geometry' section you had typo'd Sigma into Simga. Funny, but thought you should know in case you want to fix it.
-The third paragraph under Back Throw seems to be incomplete. "As one of his strongest attacks, it’s worth trying to go for this a few times off BThrow, but wary opponents may opt to"

Now, I don't rate sets, but I liked this! Plays off his source material but innovates and adapts it to fit the Smash scene a bit better. Not an approach I usually take as heavily, but a perfectly respectable one that works well here! This gets the seal of approval from the newly appointed Overwatch franchise master. Good work!
 

Arctic Tern

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 12, 2022
Messages
129
WHIMSICOTT (tunz)

Whimsicott is a set focused around aerial mobility, befitting for the character - she has six midair jumps, the ability to glide via SSpec, and a decent vertical recovery in USpec. I’m a bit confused as to why you did specifically Pokepark 2 Whimsicott - it’s a non-legendary Pokemon, there’s barely any lore to research - but the playstyle of drifting around the foe’s attacks and lunging in to punish any mistakes is fitting for both this specific Whimsicott and the general line, which are notorious pranksters. I particularly like the fact that NSpec, a command grab, doesn’t interrupt her movement to perform, enabling her to use it as a punish option against opponents trying to shield her aerial assault. Whimsicott’s aerials are the strong suit of the set, with a sex kick NAir that is either a kill move or combo starter depending on which hit and a dragdown FAir that can lead into jablock setups. BAir is also notable here, where the back hit is one of her kill moves but the front hit is a combo extender meant to fill in a gap that her other aerials don’t.

The grounded moves also have some fun ideas, with a Jab that can potentially lead into other moves if Whimsicott doesn’t use the finisher and a short range UTilt with a windbox that leads into it. DSmash is particularly notable, being a multihit where the hits don’t combo into each other, something that I’ve used in my Froy Day set coincidentally enough. Whimsicott is meant to be a bit flawed on the ground, and I’d say that it comes across decently well, with her Jab being so stubby, her USmash hitting behind her first, and her vine moves logically being easily jumped over. The main “issue” is that Cotton Spore seems strangely underutilized despite being the only move she uses in the game this set is based off of, with her being easily able to use it to extend combos (additionally, the size of the clouds is never stated). UThrow also seems a bit too strong - 125% is a higher kill percent than Mewtwo’s (one of the strongest UThrows) and is higher in raw percent than any of Whimsicott’s other options, yet the text says it’s only a decent kill option. Despite these minor issues, this probably ends up as my favorite set of yours due to the increased technical knowledge in the set, a sign of growth and learning that sometimes a set can thrive without any real overarching mechanic.

KNUCKLES (Turtles)

Knuckles is a character who’s had quite a few movesets made for him, both in MYM and in general Smash fandom, so the reader should probably know what to expect. He’s got his glide and digging, as a SSpec and DSpec, which are fairly instrumental in his kit, the former being an approach tool and combo starter that he can move during to mix up an approach and the latter being one of his strongest options off a tech chase. More surprising is his NSpec, which isn’t the boulder Special most of the Knuckles sets I’ve seen give him but a Shine equivalent using the Master Emerald. This enables him to start a variety of combos if he lands it, but has the cost of leaving the Emerald open for the foe to break and deprive him of it until he gathers the shards in true Knuckles fashion. It’s a fun take on the Shine archetype that I actually think fits him better than the standard boulder Special, given it slots in better with the rushdown gameplan he should have and incorporates the Master Emerald, something heavily tied to the character.

His other moves are fairly basic, as expected for the character, but they still have good use in Knuckles’ highly versatile combo game, able to extend, end combos hard, or potentially punish attempts to DI away from him after a hit. The Specials further apply this, with a personal take on Sonic’s Spin Dash meant more for burst punishment than escaping pressure and an aerial DSpec that sets up for a tech chase on hit. Knuckles also has some higher risk moves as well, like FSmash, DAir, and Dash Attack, that are meant more for burst damage or hard reads and give an incentive for players to get risky much like the character himself. Not to say he’s not without tricks; he’s got a DTilt with brief armor to help counterpoke, can charge his NAir to catch out air dodges against his air combo pressure, and has a DSmash that automatically sets up for tech chases that, if fully charged, summons a flame pillar to punish attempts to hop over the base hit. Lastly, Knuckles’ grab game is on the simpler side but still solid, with a burying DThrow and a UThrow that he can cancel before the knockback to potentially punish the opponent’s reaction. All of his moves have a distinct purpose in his overall playstyle, with his mix of speed and strength balanced out by his short range and need to commit if he wants to approach, very in-line with the character.

The only real issue I have is that the startup on NSpec may be a bit too fast, but I don’t know the intricacies of every character’s moveset so it may not be, and even then it can be lost. While this will certainly not be the last set Knuckles gets in MYM, it’s going to be hard to beat this as my favorite.

SNAKEMAN.EXE (US)

SnakeMan.EXE is a mid-ranged character with the gimmick that, when not attacking, most of his hitbox is contained within a small pot that decreases the damage he takes if the foe hits it. This is good for him, as his full hitbox is very big and thus makes him easy to combo once actually hit due to that and his stats, and enables him to sneak his way around more projectiles than he ordinarily would. To balance this out, SnakeMan’s attacks tend to either have long startlag or long endlag, meaning that the opponent is very capable of hitting him in the midst of his attacks and forcing him to play a fittingly snake-like game of waiting for their reactions and striking when he can get away with it. Aiding in this is his DSpec, which allows him to create traps on stage that spawn copies of his NSpec projectile that he can act during, creating a small bullet hell for the foe to navigate past that he can easily punish with his long-ranged burst damage moves. All this is balanced out by the fact that SnakeMan doesn’t actually have good kill percentages or combos, relying on edgeguarding and strong punish options for damage racking and/or KOing.

While there’s not much to the character, a lot of mileage is gotten out of SnakeMan’s limited appearances, with strong punish options in the form of FSmash (which even locks the foe in place for snakes) and DSmash and tilts that serve as intermediary punish options, like DTilt poking low and UTilt punishing aerial approaches over his DSpec Holes. His grab also has some neat tricks, including a DThrow with customizable knockback direction to lead into mixups and a BThrow that forces a reaction through the use of poison and also serves to rack damage. My main issue is that, despite the major threat NSpec snakes serve, their implementation into SnakeMan’s gameplan isn’t described that much, though as I understand it was rushed a fair bit. As examples of interplay, NAir is a versatile positioning move that could easily hit foes into snakes, his SSpec sweetspot could easily catch out foes shielding or dodging snakes, and his grab has enough reach to counter shielding (additionally, some mention of holding a foe in the path of snakes with grab should be here). This can easily be fixed with more time to properly work on the set, however, and SnakeMan.EXE still stands as a neat take on the basic idea of a footsies character.

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Arctic Tern

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 12, 2022
Messages
129
CORDELIA VON FEURBACH (Kat)

Cordelia is a unique take on a gun wielder, where she can throw 5 different types of bullets into the air for her to immediately catch in her guns and fire if it comes in contact with her during certain frames of her attacks. This provides them with buffs to their knockback and damage and allows her to potentially combo off of moves that wouldn’t combo otherwise, since they come out fast and have great range. The bullets Cordelia fires with this mechanic are fairly diverse in their effects as well, with one that prevents the foe from teching if they get hit to one that’s actually three bullets, giving a greater chance for her to snag them in the attack. Most distinctive is the Luxurious Bullet, which is by far the most powerful and provides the most unique alterations to her moves but also takes much longer, meaning she needs to use it on a read if she wants to make use of it. These bullets also gain buffs if Cordelia catches them at specific points in their arc, encouraging her to use them at specific times rather than ASAP and adding a layer of positioning and timing to her playstyle that is kept throughout the set.

Her other Specials are relatively standard for the most part, with her NSpec being a basic gunfire Special that still serves well for leading into thrown bullets and conditioning air approaches. SSpec is a stronger projectile that pushes Cordelia back upon using it, which she can use for weird approaches combined with her other tools. DSpec is the most unique, a counter (letting her stand her ground for bullets) that summons a guard that serves as a minion afterwards, which can fire bullets for her to follow up on or fire her thrown bullets if timed right. There’s also a surprising amount of mileage gained out of Cordelia’s height complex; she has a super low first jump and a committal second jump, meaning that double jumps are risky but she can do very strong shorthop approaches since the first jump essentially is a shorthop and thus doesn’t have the damage reduction, combined with her good air stats. She also wants to be above the opponent a good portion of the time, due to her strong aerial NSpec and a DAir that gets stronger the longer it's held out, as well as firing a projectile if held for long enough that is only effective if fired from high in the air.

Cordelia’s standards are more basic, but still have neat ideas, with her being able to hold out a Jab to mindgame whether she’ll go for a bullet or suddenly rush forwards and a sweeping UTilt that still works well for juggle setups given her low jump (though despite being a gun move there’s seemingly no bullet catching frames, when the set specifies that every gun move has them). Her Smashes get weirder, with a super long FSmash that benefits very hard from thrown bullets to keep foes from just camping her out and a DSmash that makes a wall she can give the properties of her bullets or bounce SSpec off. The aerials and throws are simpler, but they all keep the element of timing, with BAir having a sweetspot in the middle of the hitbox duration and DThrow having a precise bullet catching window but one that, if nailed, massively increases the damage. Cordelia has a lot of gimmicks, but they ultimately all flow into a set based around baiting approaches, punishing them with long ranged moves, and tricky timing with the downside of generally slow frame data and poor range on her fast moves. It all works out to a set that gets the most out of a character with a good bit of obvious set potential and a lot out of the bits you wouldn’t think would impact a set at all - a testament to the fact that, with a bit of creative thinking, you can squeeze potential out of almost anything.

SUISEN (Kat)

Suisen is a character front loaded with mechanics, enough so that he ends up a good bit over 30k with everything taken into account. The most important is his “learning” mechanic, based on one of his in-game abilities that makes attacks that he shields, dodges, or interrupts much weaker against his shields than normal. Suisen’s shield also naturally reduces the damage of any subsequent moves that hit it, meaning that with enough learned attacks it can be near impossible for the foe to break. This is good for him, as his shield by default has much lower HP than normal and he’s extremely light, meaning that if overused at the start of the match he can easily lose a stock. Suisen is much more survivable than his weight suggests, however, as he passively heals up damage he takes, forcing the opponent to stay committed to pressuring him and providing a work around to his otherwise poor ground movement.

This could easily add up to being overpowered, but while Suisen certainly gives off the vibe, it ultimately ends up fairly balanced in my opinion. While the healing could probably be lowered (and I’m a bit confused as to whether it heals all damage he took or just the damage of the move that most recently hit him), he’s so light that it is very possible for a good combo to lead to a kill percent. Suisen also has very poor frame data even on his defensive options, meaning that he struggles to actually escape disadvantage when this is combined with his low shield health. Lastly, many of his strongest options are very committal, having either long start or end lag that make him very easy to punish if he’s careless with them. It adds up to someone who has a horrific advantage state, but an equally terrible disadvantage, especially with how most of his advantage tools require reading the foe to actually use.

Two paragraphs, and I haven’t even discussed Suisen’s actual moves! To help with learning attacks, he has a DSpec that automatically learns attacks performed in the area and a held version that serves as a counter, which grows more powerful the more he’s learned the attack that was countered and prevents them from using it for a period. SSpec applies a reticule that buffs all of Suisen’s attacks, but can also be expended on a rushing move that he can use to force a 50/50 on hit. Smashing the attack and hitting at the end of its range also lets him apply a radius to the opponent wherein he will automatically use said rushing move, letting him pressure from midrange and allowing him to potentially make direct approaches more intimidating. NSpec has Suisen fire torpedoes that he can submerge in the ground to make aerial traps, with the lock-on effect allowing him to fire up to 6 at once. Finally, USpec is a good, if fairly gimpable recovery in the air and a Spinning Kong-esque attack in the air that gets stronger the more moves he’s learned for a potential early kill option.

Essentially every move has a gimmick of some sort, but they all manage to fit in with Suisen’s gameplan while being strong moves without said gimmicks. Some of my favorites are USmash creating a missile that gives him a built-in bury 50/50 if it hits a grounded foe (that he can potentially blow up with missiles), an extendable grab that works in the air - as an actual grab, not a Z-air - a BAir with a suction effect that he can use to alter his projectiles’ movement, mess with techs, or just pull them towards a strong reverse sex kick hitbox, and a DThrow that varies depending on how close to him the foe was, the close variant being a very powerful bury as a reward for landing a slow grab at that range. Despite all the crazy things Suisen has, it all still works into a cohesive whole, based around conditioning certain methods of approach through his mechanics and gimmicks that he can then punish with his slow, but hard hitting attacks. In fact, I’d argue that the insanity works for the set’s characterization, considering Disgaea is, at its core, about giving the player a bunch of options, absurd damage numbers, and rapid growths of power, which are all in this set. The emphasis on predicting the opponent’s options is fitting for Suisen specifically, whose entire gimmick is predicting things, and interpreting this psychologically instead of as an actual move/mechanic actually works better than the other way around. It’s also worth noting that this is one of the few Disgaea sets I can recall that actually bases the set off of the character’s actual in-game special moves, which is rarer than you’d expect.

This set is still a very long read, so don’t sink your teeth into it unless you have free time. Nonetheless, Suisen is perhaps the purest representation of his series we’ve seen yet, and ranks very high in my ratings scale.

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Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
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Australia
SnakeMan is a modest entry from you, and a little throwback to Froy’s various Mega Man sets for Froy Day. The mechanic here is simple, but reminds me of an idea for a small character who gains a large hurtbox during their attacks, making them easy to punish but difficult to combo. His Specials are simple, whereby Neutral and Down Special feel like the closest hooks the set has. Neutral Special is a decent little delayed hitbox, and Down Special is a pitfall trap, though being able to have 3 of them out and place them in midair (even if they’re not all that dangerous) miiight hinge a little hard on stage control.

Down Special has its further interaction with summoning extra viruses/delayed hitboxes, but it feels like it could be more engaging beyond “set 3 traps across the stage, get extra delayed hitboxes with no drawbacks.” Maybe using Neutral Special while one of your traps is out will use it up? Might not be your intention, but it could create a dynamic where SnakeMan has to be conservative with his Neutral Special if he wants to preserve the stage control of his pitfalls, and can’t use them both at the same time. You could even make the pitfalls or viruses a bit stronger to compensate for this. Other than this, the non-Specials are solid enough, but a little wanting for solid material to play off of. I do like how D-Smash can warp around terrain, even if it’s niche and stage-dependent, and the little F-tilt and D-tilt 50/50 of slow and safe vs quick and unsafe. N-air is also a good little move for positioning and set-ups due to its varying knockback angles and flowing into different parts of SnakeMan’s game. Oh, and D-throw being like a throw version of Piranha Plant’s Down Special, where you can roll to pick a launching direction and bait out techs.

Also, I know you're kind of in the process of adding pictures, but I wonder if it would be worth adding a picture or link to Ms. Millions - a quote from her being used in the Smashboards post and at the start of SnakeMan.EXE's set makes her seem like a pretty defining part of his character.

Now this is a nice Froy Day character choice! The “Chill,” quote initially made me think this was going to be a Cold Enchanter remix, but it is very apt to make a stronger counterpart to a weaker YGO monster that got an older moveset. Even if we’re limited to a few choices here. Once had the idea to make Blizzard Princess myself, because her ice flail would make for a unique melee weapon.

Ice Counters make for an interesting dynamic as fragile resources that Ice Master needs to use and allocate carefully: the idea of your constructs being dependent on counters for their durations is always intriguing and reminds me of my old Oogie Boogie set where a dice roll determined the number of constructs you could have out. IM’s held Neutral Special has a little concept recycling where it creates a duplicate that controls similarly to Reisen’s, too. It’s nice to see concepts done by a setmaker in a single contest executed differently in another moveset. I like the offensive dynamic where Ice Mirrors can make Ice Counters on an opponent last for long, but Ice Mirrors use up Ice Counters while they are out, as well as when their attacks whiff. It does mean that Ice Master has to use them offensively, and appreciates the speed boost from extra Ice Counters for that reason. Translating Trap Cards that respond to attacks into out-of-shield recoveries is a clever way to implement them, and Up Special has useful purposes as a defensive tool, finisher or way to protect Ice Counters in a specific area. There is also the counter that punishes harder if there are more Ice Counters on the field, in case opponents decide to ignore them.

Ice Master’s F-Smash construct lives up to the promise, with various MYM’ian perks like being solid, having a powerful shattering hitbox and pressing B while charging F-Smash again to send it sailing forward and ride the block. I wonder if Ice Master could throw out an F-Smash block and then use her U-Smash to place the latter’s hitbox high in the air? Or have the suction effect from the ice pillar pull opponents into the block so they are left in range for the block’s shattering hitbox. And D-Smash is a sensible big finisher move, and a good call not to go overkill and make all of IM’s Smashes actual breakable constructs. Jab’s advancing snow wall has a lot going for it, too, where it can be used to approach and gets a huge amount out of set-ups and additional Ice Counters. F-tilt shattering ice counters and KO’ing earliest when up-angled can work against opponents who jump over your ice wall. There are plenty of little hard interactions to see here. I like F-air being a seemingly underwhelming move that applies ice counters and makes good use of Ice Counters boosting IM’s speed to eventually become a good combo tool, and U-air being a finisher that’s easier to flow and combo into than D-Smash, while also working against aerial advances.

While her concepts and individual attacks aren’t mind-blowing, and her clone usage is more tame than Reisen’s, I found Ice Master to be a well-executed MYM’ian set that can never get campy with her tools.

Knuckles continues the Sega train, Knuckles is packing some seriously rocking input section headers. Even with just the intro to go by, this feels like a definitive take on Knuckles that stays faithful to his original cool persona (before the Colors era changed him - you picked a good time to depart from the main Sonic games, from what I’ve heard of that era’s take on most of the cast).

  • Low initial dash + traction designed to give Knuckles a clumsy feel when he turns around is neat, and something else I’ve learned about stat/movement implementation. Between your sets and Blood Falcon, us readers have been getting a good amount in that area this contest.
  • Side Special is a fun start to the moveset, and pretty much what I’d want from a Knuckles moveset - I grew up with the dark era of Sonic with Adventure 2, Heroes and Shadow the Hedgehog, so I have some nostalgia for Knuckles’ gliding ability. His spin dash is a simple but good take on Sonic’s variant, though glide feels like the more fun option with the way it functions, but still needing careful usage.
  • This might be the rare modern moveset that plays with wall-clinging more than usual. The wall-cling punch Knuckles can do is neat, a little anti-recovery trick against opponents.
  • Drill Claw is a surprisingly cool move! There’s the dragging properties that allow Knuckles to go into an aerial if he has a midair jump to cancel it, and the sweet mix-up potential with leaving opponents prone on landing and transitioning to Dig. The movement options are very apt for Knuckles, being a Sonic character, and I’m fond of his midair jump being a “resource” for his aerial Side and Down Specials that make them less safe or versatile without them. Also guess we’re not going the full Tulin route with those dug-up items being optional.

While the first two Specials were good, I feel less sold on the Neutral Special. On one hand, I enjoy its direct reference to Sonic Adventure and how the Master Emerald can break. I also have to give this move props for feeling a move that would actually be in Smash, between its simplicity and ability to absorb attacks but potentially break. On the other hand, I feel its application as a combo starter is too simplistic for a Special input, and that it’s almost too easy to pull off and doesn’t have much in the way of risk/reward dynamics. Main drawback here is that Knuckles can lose his Emerald if he is attacked too much out of Neutral Special or over-relies on it as a defense against projectiles. I’m also a tad iffy on moves that negate certain types of melee hitboxes, as it would give Knuckles an advantage over someone like Zelda compared to Marth just because the former has energy-based attacks, but it’s not too big of a deal.

Standards are no-frills melee attacks, with an emphasis on short-ranged but potentially powerful punching moves. D-tilt is probably my favourite of these moves, for its knockback variety and the little armour that can help Knuckles out of a crouch-canceled Spindash. It would be kind of cool if Knuckles moved forward a little during his D-tilt so he could close in and challenge longer-ranged attacks, but he doesn’t have to do that. D-Smash is also the highlight of Knuckles’s Smashes, where the funny bouncing hitbox can loop against foes to mess with them, as well as the short-ranged sweetspot on your fist that can connect from Drill Claw! Feels like more of a compelling attack conversion than your Neutral Special. It’s also funny that your recent D-Smashes have gimmicks attached to them compared to the more straightforward F-Smash and U-Smashes. In this set’s case, I enjoyed the throwback to one of Knuckles’s attacks from Sonic Heroes.

N-air is one of Knuckles’s cooler moves, being a slow-ish sex kick that’s weak for defense but has an early and late hit application, the former being a good transition into your glide. Its charging hitbox is unique too, developing a burning dragging hitbox after 40 frames that can confirm into the main attack. U-air is also a little standout for just being a simple but effective aggression tool that works well from his Side Special at early percents among U-tilt. Knuckles’s throw are pretty straightforward, but the dodge cancel on his U-throw for mix-ups is surprisingly pretty darn unique (and there’s the funny angry buff from B-throw if foes are holding one of your emerald shards).
 

Hyper_Ridley

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 21, 2007
Messages
2,291
Location
Hippo Island
Blood Falcon by Daehypeels
First, a disclaimer: When it comes to longer movesets, I tend to focus on the core attack descriptions, and skim over the high-level competitive analysis. I am very much a casual Smasher these days, with some broad-strokes knowledge of FG fundamentals.

With that out of the way, this is certainly an ambitious take on the character. It goes beyond even being a Luigi-style semi-clone, this is genuinely a moveset tailored to Blood Falcon. This even feels like more of a "Captain Falcon but power-based" moveset than a certain Gerudo sorcerer. Funny enough, FSmash is reminiscent of Falcon's attack from Smash 64, though I don't recall that one outright ignoring shields.

I think my favorite attack is FAir, it's a freakin' shoulder barge that can be angled! Ptero Drift feels like it would be a ton of fun on the right stage. Side-to-side Bridge of Eldin, anyone? DAir is another highlight, as a crazy diving grab, and he's so improved over the Captain that his "Dive" attack is an actual dive!

I do think things get a bit carried away with the unsafe committal gimmicks, especially since they start to get redundant. Feels weird to read go through all that description of Blood Falcon incorporating spin attack to then see it basically reduced to "Just use FTilt instead". If anything, the actual F-Zero attack should be the default choice. Likewise with DTilt, it's described as a Falcon Punch kind of flex-tier read, but then Bloodbane comes along and is all "Hey guys, I'm a crazy strong move that's also kinda spammable." This would be fine, a lot of fun even, in FFA matches, but most of that meta talk is about 1v1, where it starts to fall apart.

The Angler by Majora_787
I've seen a few Terraria videos back in the day, it's probably gotten 200,000 updates since then. I've also been fishing all of twice in my life, luckily I didn't find any wandering eye fish. Then again, I do like trying new seafood.

This was a fun, breezy read. The writing made me feel like we were hanging out on a boat discussing wacky Smash Bros movesets while waiting for a bite. It was neat seeing the various Terraria fishy stuff, I now know slightly more about a game's fishing mechanics that isn't Animal Crossing or Sonic Adventure! Toxicarp is my favorite "normal" fish, while the eel is both my favorite Blood Moon inhabitant and also kinda creepy. It's like it's both 8-bit and hyper-realistic at the same time...

Of course, why are we discussing such primitive tools like "rods" and "bait" when we could just use glorious Blast Fishing! The visuals of bomb-geysers launching a boat into the air is funny, and I love how the timer is faster when it's used offensively so he can do silly combos with his own launch. The only thing it's missing is actually blowing some fish out of the water. Surely Terraria's added some "fish bones" type of enemy by now. If the concern is providing too much area denial with one attack, it could require using Chum the Waters first to lure some fish to the blast-zone.

While the Blood Moon is the heart of the moveset, I really like the simple sail/anchor mechanics. It's a cute way of furthering the boat's relevance to gameplay. On the other hand, the regular moon phases feel too complicated. I think it could work fine by simply being gibbous/crescent phases for a buff/nerf.

BAir feels a tad too strong. It's dealing 16% on its own, then applying ichor afterwards, and that's all on a fast disjoint. It should probably deal single-digit damage on its own, especially since it's a 2-hitter and therefore gains an extra 10% from its own ichor effect.

Does Chum the Waters affect throws? It would be cool to summon even bigger swarms of Eaters or double hell sharks in FFA trips. Maybe even double fishing crates? You know those crates can smell blood in the water.

That final smash...So you're saying this is a game with a Blood Moon that also has a demonic pig boss?
 

BridgesWithTurtles

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 18, 2013
Messages
2,173
Location
The long road to nowhere
3DS FC
3523-2059-7939
Well, this set was originally going to be submitted either before or alongside Knuckles, but after Knuckles got pushed ahead for Froy Day and realizing Valentine's Day was just around the corner, I decided to hold off on this one out of a sense of sheer thematic obligation. As usual, I recommend desktop view for this set.
 

BrazilianGuy

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 10, 2022
Messages
42
I know nothing about Layton and his series, seems charming and cute tho. Also I recall seeing this set on Duke of Dork's channel, nice to see it brought here. The art done for each of the attacks is super well made, really helps you see the entire set in your head, I also thank you for minimizing the sword and going for the cool puzzle route, other Layton sets I've seen usually use a lot of the sword. I like the Neutral Special having a Hamster and how you also did it for Kirby by having a Rick plush. Layton feeling like a smart character who needs to solve puzzles to get stuff done is such good characterization, your passion for the series really shines through and I always love getting to feel that in a set. But I do feel some points could be more specified, in specific his Down Special hint coins, the buff is pretty vague. I don't have that much to say really, Layton is a quick charming read with lots of passion, I give him a gentleman/10


Oh yeah, Berserking time, althought I have friends who really like Beserk I've never checked it out myself, but Guts is super cool, I love his design and messed up origin. Also you mentioned Death Battle, based! All in all from the little I know of him Guts does what I expect Guts to do, he hits you very hard and you die. I will say his Side Special being a one hit kill is very silly, but in a good way, if a character should have a 1HKO it should be the Berserk guy. The Armor is also done in a nice way where not only is it's timer based on how much damage you take so he doesn't die and Yield to Me being based on how much Armor juice he has also is really good, love how it gives him a choice to cash it all out. Although I don't really get Feed the Rage, its described as a way to charge his Armor but how much exactly he gains from using it? Is it like Cloud's but he can move? Knowing that would be nice. The rest of his kit is very good, the Bomb down tilt in particular is my favorite (in the last paragraph of down tilt you say down special, I think its a typo but yeah) only thing I can say is that maybe the attacks could be described with more violence, like Beserk is pretty nutty in how much blood and guts goes around so maybe more of that? But regardless I liked Guts, I give him a Nuts/10

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Arctic Tern

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 12, 2022
Messages
129
AMY ROSE (Turtles)

It seems we’re going through a bit of a Sonic renaissance, with Fang, Knuckles, and Amy - the latter coming just a few days after Knux! Amy is a bit of an inversion of Knuckles, in that she’s more focused on aerial combos than grounded combos. While her stats aren’t as good as her crush’s, she can make up for them with her Hammer Flip technique, which gives her an alternate jumping method with a much larger boost in momentum at the cost of less control. Amy also has various ways to mix up her aerial movement, from aerials that automatically move her around to a NAir that gives her a momentum boost on hit, allowing her to perform very long NAir loops if she can nail the timing. It all gives her a very Sonic-esque feel while also giving her a notably harder learning curve as in her 2D platformer appearances.

Amy’s Specials are a bit of a grabbag, but they work into the kit well enough. SSpec is either a hammer spin that she can use to approach or drag the foe offstage or a tornado she can use to start combos or extend her own momentum boosting methods. I particularly liked the tornado’s ability to extend hitstun, giving Amy situationally deadlier combos if she manages to snag the opponent after a hit. DSpec has her summon a present that can either be an explosion or a trap depending on if it’s done in the air or ground, and can also be snapped onto the foe by using it when right next to them. The last notable Special is NSpec, a counter where Amy gets no damage, but does gain the power to automatically dodge the attack that triggered the counter, letting her potentially get in against attacks that could stuff her approach - which is a bit tricky, due to not having that much range on her moves.

The rest of the set is fairly standard, though not without their gimmicks. Amy’s Jab has armor on it that lets her contest with other jabs, and her Dash Attack has an optional grab hitbox that lets her counter shielding, which normally stuffs the move hard. Her Smashes are very simple, but the big hammer slam FSmash works well with her methods of slowing the foe down and DSmash works well for covering tech chase responses (which she has plenty of methods of triggering, from Jab to a late hit on UAir to DThrow). Of the aerials not mentioned, FAir is a simple move that works well with Amy’s hammer flip letting her reach recovering foes faster due to it being a spike, while having all the tools needed to come back from far distances, and DAir is a neat dragdown tool that sets up for her grounded moves instead of air moves. Lastly, while her throws are also simple, they also work with her playstyle well and generally don’t overlap in purpose, so they’re a plus in my book. There are a few “weird” moves in there that do feel a bit redundant, mainly UTilt, but they still have enough different use cases to justify their nature.

Personally, I prefer Knuckles over Amy, since he had more uniqueness to his kit and no true out of place move. Amy is still a solid set, however, and a very nice Valentine’s Day treat.

INDIANA JONES (Rychu)

Indy seems like a character who's fairly difficult to make a compelling set for, what with being an ordinary human with only a few weapons, but this actually does a fairly good job at it! His whip sees use throughout the set as the basis for his smashes, grab, and USpec, with the latter being a fairly versatile hitgrab with different effects based on his positioning relative to the foe. Indy’s DSpec is the real meat of the set, involving him digging up the various artifacts he’s found in his adventures as one use items. These items are quite powerful, giving him full healing, a fast spear thrust with good range that kills insanely early and the ability to instantly recover, and feel balanced out by the fact he has to dig for a long time and the fact that he doesn’t have control over which artifact is in a digging spot. Normally setmakers would give Indy control over it, but I like this more since it forces the player to think on their feet much like the character himself.

As a whole, Indy is a hit-and-run character, with a lot of ways to run away from the foe to get the space he wants for his artifacts and kill moves. SSpec is a command dash that makes him intangible to projectiles and makes cover for him to hide behind, Dash Attack is a slide that low profiles projectiles and several attacks, and DTilt is a sand cloud that beats out most any attack in the game. While Indy doesn’t have a lot of damage or combos, he does have strong edgeguard ability, surprising lasting power thanks to his toolkit, and very early kill moves in his Smashes, plus the ability to confirm into them via DTilt and DThrow, so he ultimately finds himself able to hold his own. The only real issue is that a lot of his moves don’t have a lot of damage on them (for example, UAir deals only 7% despite killing at 140%), which is a problem on a character not meant to have a lot of combos, but he does have a fast NSpec projectile so maybe it isn’t as much of an issue as I think. It still does a great job at getting the essence of Indy down into a Smash set while still being fairly balanced, so it’s a win in my book.

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Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,258
Location
Australia
I was wondering what you were up to when you said you got inspiration, but this is a hype character pick and I’m glad we got a set from you this contest. It was hard not to smile when reading this set! This Up Special’s writing conveys a lot of character, and was just really fun to read, actually the most fun I’ve had with a set this contest from a writing perspective.

  • “if he doesn’t hit anything, he’ll enter freefall and plummet to the spike traps that are almost definitely below him.” Perfect.
  • “Indy can also hold the input to aim the whip in whatever direction he chooses, with a cute little stylized compass rose to indicate exactly where he’s going to be cracking the thing.” This is a really good and thematically-fitting visual detail.

Being a fun little position-dependent grab-like move also helps.

  • “As an archeologist, Dr. Jones’ first priority is always going to be finding interesting and historically significant artifacts in his travels, even if there’s an errant demon king or some sort of electric rat around trying to murder him to death.” Okay, this line actually made me laugh out loud.

Comedy aside, Down Special as a move is genuinely interesting. It’s a “do your set-up in one place,” type of move, but with the twist that you can do four different set-ups on four different parts of the stage! Talk about spreading yourself thinly. Has a good bit of balance to it where Jones can resume his work anytime and doesn’t lose progress if he’s KO’ed. His reward for finishing each of these set-ups is a once-per-stock trinket, all made more interesting by the fact that you can potentially have all 4 of these powerful things in your arsenal. And that dying while holding them will reset your progress. The relics Indy can dig up have nice and simple effects: I actually think the Holy Grail is an interesting take on extreme healing, because it’s once-per-stock and is also balanced out by Indy having a pretty bad recovery. The Dial of Destiny has a similar survival function in teleportation AKA an infinite recovery - could be cool if it had no lag and allowed Indy to pull off teleportation combos, but I imagine that he wouldn’t get much use out of these if he’s not that strong of a fighter.

The other moves convey a strong amount of character: Jab’s punching animation is cool and sounds exactly like something he’d do in the movies, and D-tilt is a prop-like move that shows off Indy’s resourcefulness. F-tilt, Dash Attack, F-throw, D-Smash and D-air all convey movie-like animations too. Neutral and Side Special are more simple and set the stage for Indy’s moveset being based on fleeing and spacing to dig up those artifacts, but it does feel a bit one-dimensional to focus the playstyle on that - it reminds me of some movesets from David among other setmakers around MYM11. I get that it’s in-character for Indiana Jones to avoid scuffs and focus more on digging, but it seems like the set leans into Indy wanting to survive and not interact with his opponents instead of focusing more on melee and combat aspects of his kit, even when he does have some solid KO options in his Smashes. If anything, I think the set could be stronger if Indy's artifacts linked more into his non-Specials, like ways he could use the proning effect or get shield breaks, not dissimilar to how D-throw brings up being a potential confirm into the Lance. On a different note, Dash Attack is an interesting little tech tool, particularly when using it with Side Special, but I think it has a few too many options: Indy can fire his gun to catch high-profiles, and while he goes through end lag the move says he can jump out of the slide anytime, which sort of removes a chunk of risk to throwing it out. Maybe he can only jump if he lands the attack, using its upwards knockback as a combo starter?

A fitting Froy Day entry, as iirc Whimsicott is Froy’s favourite Pokemon, and a bit of a fine-tuned Jigglypuff who has greater ground speed but less KO power. Whimsicott strikes me as having excellent survivability thanks to that Jigglypuff-like mobility and a healing command grab in Giga Drain. Her Side Special glide reminds me of another Froy Day set in Knuckles, actually: I get the approach you’re going for with this move, but I’m not entirely sure if it’s necessary when Whimsicott’s high air speed, air acceleration and multiple jumps already provide ideal groundwork for a good mobility, mix-up and recovery tool, which you more or less mention in the stats section too. I think that making Side Special some kind of move with a hitbox or other application that could take advantage of Whimsicott’s aerial strengths would give the move a lot more meaning.

Down Special is an intentional jerk move, as alluded to in the intro, going for an approach where the stun is balanced out by Whimsicott having low KO power. While I think stunning traps that can be placed in midair could be a little obnoxious to play against (even though that’s your intention here), I appreciate that it’s balanced out by Whimsicott not being able to get casual kills off of its Aerials. Down Special says that Whimsicott can have up to 2 Cotton Spores out, but doesn’t mention how long they last for - might want to add that in. The moves past the Specials are more simplistic, but the Aerials pick up in detail, with F-air being arguably the most interesting one for its conversions. I will say that B-air probably KOs too early for all the talk about Whimsicott being unable to KO easily, and it’s on the input that can confirm off of a Cotton Spore the easiest to boot. On that note, it’s a good call for Whimsicott not to have any Aerials that deal downwards knockback, preventing them from getting them off of Cotton Spore or other Aerials too easily. At least, I don’t get the impression that Down Air deals downwards knockback.

While its Specials are simplistic, and there are a few bits that could be fixed, I think Whimsicott does a decent job at being aware of various moves working together, as well as being largely conscious of the role of each input section and ensuring that the Aerials are the highlight of the set.
 

WeirdChillFever

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 10, 2014
Messages
6,496
Location
Somewhere Out There
You Are Invited To JamCon (MYM27-1)

Welcome to the very first JamCon of this contest! As you know (or not, in which case this part of the message is a bit more relevant to you), JamCons are “contests within a contest” in which a prompt is given to make a moveset, as we do more often around these parts of town. Difference between this and your regular ol’ novella is that setmakers are only given a weekend or so to create this set! Quick concepting, clear-cut decisions and writing down what comes to mind is the name of the game here. Some ground rules for what is generally a four-day-frenzy of anarchy:

  • The “theme” or prompt is chosen by the winner of the last JamCon. In the case of a joint winner, a theme can be agreed upon between the two winners.​
  • Setmakers have give-or-take four days (depending on the mercy of whoever posts the theme) to make a set that relates to the theme.​
  • Setmakers get two weeks to read all the sets posted for this JamCon, comment on the sets posted and nominate their favorite JamCon set of the round.​
  • If you want to vote, you have to read and post a comment for all the sets posted for the JamCon. People who vote get a 0.5 tiebreaker bonus to their own set’s score, if they have made a set for the JamCon.​
That’s the general gist of the process, but of course the sets themselves need to follow a few rules too.
  • Pre-written movesets are not allowed! You can have a blank template ready and have some basic notes jotted down, but sets with moves written for them already are not eligible for a JamCon. Exception to this rule are ”Extras”, such as introduction, Final Smashes or the cornerstone of every moveset, the alternate costumes.
  • You can send in as many sets as you can humanly possible create in the four-day period with no penalty other than us being a bit concerned for you if you send in more than three 10k sets.
  • ”Joint sets”, sets which you team up with a buddy (or two) to make are allowed and encouraged! They can be a fun way to get a glimpse into someone else’s moveset making process and makes writing a full moveset easier because you don‘t have to write the full set yourself.
  • Jokesets are not allowed, but sets with a lot of jokes in them are, as are sets for characters for which the act of writing a moveset for them is humorous in itself. Key lies in the effort you put into it.
  • Edits to the moveset during the two-week reading period may only consist of small number tweaks or fixing typos. Editting moves substantially goes against the four-day nature of the contest and is not allowed. After the JamCon reading and voting period when the JamCon winner has been announced , you can edit your set to be a big boy set for the MYM27 contest at large.
  • If you post a JamCon set, please say somewhere in your post that it’s a JamCon submission.
This JamCon‘s submission period runs from now to Tuesday around the same time of the day. More information to follow about any extensions we do here.

So, with that out of the way…what’s the theme?

The theme is….

For The Love of Money, Money, Money!


Fresh of the heels of Valentine‘s, let’s celebrate what really makes the world go round! Write 40k for that 40k

Some suggestions to get the hustle going:
  • Characters that are rich, like Scrooge McDuck or the fresh-to-Nickelodeon All Star Brawl Mr. Krabs, are of course the perfect penny pinchers to take a crack at this time around. Financially challenged characters on the other side of the spectrum are also a perfect fit!
  • Characters particularly associated with money, such as Team Rocket’s Meowth or Fire Emblem’s Anna
  • Characters from games that…implore you to spend, more commonly known as “Gacha games”. Last contest’s “New Jersey” hails from such a gacha game.
  • Sets that include money mechanics, such as Walter White, Saul Goodman or Irene Landry, are a staple in MYM and this is the perfect chance to hop onto the tradition.
Of course, real hustlers stretch the rules a little bit, so if you can advocate for your character to be related to the realm lf Money you are encouraged to think outside of the box!
 
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Hyper_Ridley

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 21, 2007
Messages
2,291
Location
Hippo Island
BridgeswithTurtles & Knuckles
Yo this is Knuckles, we're at Make Your Move, you ready?

The chuckling Echidna is an up-close punchy brawler, but with a bunch of movement mechanics to reflect his gameplay from his own series. I like how Knuckles' Spindash is specifically ground-based, even having special slide-cancels. Then the aerial side-special is of course his glide. I appreciate all the various options he has out of it, though I think I'll always be tempted to just plow through everyone with his fists. Gotta love how we've got 2 Sonic movesets this MYM that have persistent hitboxes attached to their fancy mobility technique. Will Amy make it 3?

The great emerald's power allows me to feel. Emerald Burst does the impossible: A shine that doesn't just middle-finger zoners, and a tasteful way to reference the treasure hunting levels in a platform fighter. I can't see a thing but it's around somewhere.

Digging up items is also a cute reference, and I'm glad he isn't forced to dig into ! on the ground to grab emeralds. He also have the power to break through shields when he reemerges, a fun tribute to his debut scene. One suggestion for digging: Instead of tap/hold to chose how to exit, perhaps it could be different buttons.

As much as I like big flaming uppercuts, Spiral Upper and USmash don't seem to have enough to differentiate them. They're both fast to start, vulnerable on the end, deal similar damage, and neither are good for enemies not above him. The simplest change I can think of would be to grant USmash some form of intangibility, since Spiral Upper has utility in recovery.

The throws are the highlight for me. Love how Fire Dunk is a good move for team combos, it's a perfect way of alluding to the game it's from, not to mention turning the thrown player into a fiery comet to score multi-kills. I'm also very happy to see his Sonic the Fighters throw included, and it even lets him stop mid-string for mixups like in that game!

If there's one thing I truly dislike, it would be UAir being his go-to aerial and not, ya know, a punch lol
 
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