• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Make Your Move 25: Moveset Design Contest — Contest Over? Discord Invaded? Better Call Saul!

Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,143
Location
The Make Your Move Rooligan Society
Thanks for the response, Han! Glad you took the time to do that big write-up. Got some more comments here too - sorry if any of them say anything you're already aware of, had them written up before I checked this thread.


Another over-the-top “final boss” power heavyweight with great animations, I came in Adramelech with expectations when you said said she was your best set. You seem to enjoy your heavyweight characters, judging by you being interested in reading ForwardArrow’s The Primordial Darkness set.

We have not had a character whose mere presence makes the match’s timer tick down twice as fast! The world-ending atmosphere that comes with Adramelech is really cool too: all the little details like plant life dying, the world collapsing in the last few seconds and foes getting no music if they win in that time all help to sell it. I know FA will enjoy this part of the set, as Primordial Darkness had some world-ending and space-distorting visuals in its set. I am curious how this mechanic works if the match isn’t running on a timer, though - say you’re playing with 3 stocks and no timer.

The Standards are fittingly similar to Ilias’s: an F-tilt that can be held to make it stronger, a slow D-tilt that hits the entire ground, and Corrin-style. U-tilt and D-tilt work nicely together in neutral, the former catching out foes who jump against the latter. F-air is a fun aerial projectile, but it’s a bit hard to discern its full potential because the projectile and explosion have no listed travel distance or size. U-Smash being a Palutena-style move that slowly travels upwards and gives Adramelech time to act near the end is very cool, too.

18.4% and 17.4% damage on F-throw and U-throw respectively do feel quite high for throws - in Smash, throws normally deal 12% at most. It’s a bit more notable on F-throw for its status effect - crippling the foe’s walk and run is neat, but I’d be interested in hearing how it plays into Adramelech’s set and how it helps her. I enjoyed D-throw though, as it takes direct advantage of Adramelech’s mechanic and makes it very scary to be grabbed by her when the match’s timer is near its end. Side Special is super unique too - I love the space-time tearing visual, and having a move that shortens the match’s timer is funky and hasn’t been done before in MYM - I think. Down Special is a simple buff that also works with Adramelech’s mechanic.

I did prefer Ilias for her more over-the-top and ambitious moveset, but Adramelech was also cool and arguably a more unique read! Certainly looking forward to your next sets, particularly La Croix given how insane ambitious I heard she was (and the fact that you’re planning on remaking her).


I’ve had a bit of exposure to Touhou with all the sets we’ve gotten in MYM (particularly from Froy, but Tern and Goliso and there too), and I have not heard of these characters. Thus, a fresh and new experience. Also interested in how you handle non-heavyweights attack-wise.

Equally appealing to super heavyweights is the fighting game combo focus that Jo’on has, where some of her standard attacks cancel on hit. Jab doesn’t have any knockback listed on its final hit: as neat as it is as a confirm into other attacks, I am curious if there’s any incentive for Jo’on to go for the final hit. Like to space opponents away. U-tilt is a particularly fun cancel move, being a finisher that can jump cancel but suffers harsh end lag if you don’t connect. F-tilt being a hitgrab is a bit unusual, but is interesting in that it stops Jo’on from connecting with it if foes shield against an attack she cancels into it. Dash Attack is a fun little safe conditioning tool that’s unusual for the input. D-air might be my favourite move in the set: a slow, safe shield attacker that sends you back up on use, can pop foes up for combos - or stall-then-fall for a groundbounce combo and get a huge advantage off of shields. F-Smash is also a nice and simple combo or kill move that rewards landing the laggy hit. The Smashes work pretty nicely with Jo’on’s playstyle.

The Neutral Special is cool! Being able to throw Shion out and switch places with her, or teleport to your opponent to extend your combos. Retaining Shion’s momentum when you teleport is cool too. Side Special being a riskier but more rewarding rushdown on hit is cool tool. I also appreciate the list of combos at the end of the set, helps to flesh it out a bit more.

Packing some very cool moves in Neutral Special + D-air and being pretty nicely-designed, Jo’on is my favourite of yours so far. As I’ll say with a lot of FFC-made sets, added details could help to sell her more, like mix-up potential on moves for instance. Maybe fun you could do out of Shion teleport to sell its coolness even more. Your set detail is good, but in MYM we have very high expectations! If you’re interested, we did actually get a good few solid fighting game sets this contest: Hakumen, Sleaze (very FG-inspired OC), Alex, Kula Diamond and Jacky Bryant. The first 3 sets in particular are around 25k, while Alex is a monstrous 40k set with around 90 inputs. Hakumen in particular gets super detailed with its melee, which is backed by a good few fighting game mechanics. If you love fighting game sets or character, I'd definitely recommend checking these sets out.


Welcome to MYM, Unknown Fate!

Neutral Special is a fun take on reloading-based projectiles, where you press a button while reloading to apply an effect to your 3rd and 6th projectile. As someone who made 3 (Blue Archive) sets with basic reloading mechanics this contest, it’s a cool little something I’ll keep in mind if I handle reloading mechanics again. Glad to see that the Specials have their reach listed. Side Special is a simple dash that’s nice in practice, but doesn’t have a lot to it - these types of moves normally have a hitbox or some kind of bonus on use, but it’s okay.

Also assuming that Down Special’s bear trap doesn’t last for 1.5 minutes - that’s an awfully long time for a stage control tool, plus the bear trap snaps shut by itself after a few seconds in the move’s GIF. On the plus side, the air Down Special is nice and has the fun Neutral Special cancel.

Beyond this, Dahlia is a nice and simple set. Each move has its individual applications, but aside from moves that link from aerial Down Special, it’s a bit hard to see how they all work together for Dahlia’s playstyle - both mix-up and combo-wise. For instance, what are Dahlia’s good moves to throw out after hitting with her Neutral Special or Down Special trap? Anti-air moves that are good for catching out opponents conditioned to jump around those moves? What moves could Dahlia combo from her Down Throw?


Welcome to MYM! A fun character choice, I’m liking how you explore the differences between King Koopa and regular Bowser, the latter being more of a cowardly schemer than Bowser being a straight-up powerhouse. It seems that a lot of people in FFC love the superheavyweight archetype. You’ll be at home in MYM.

Kupa’s usage of props is apparent right off the bat. The idea of Koopa using a banana of all things as a laggy Dedede-style Dash Attack is hilarious. Actually, it’s not quite Dedede when Koopa can trip his opponent and cancel his end lag if he does, which is actually pretty neat - balances out the starting lag and presumably low-profile nature of the hitbox. Down Tilt is the return of Cap’n Bowser! Did you know that Cap’n Bowser from Mario Party 2 got a moveset in MYM12? We also got a moveset for Tryclyde in MYM6. Anyway, Neutral Special’s ability to turn projectiles into bullet bills is a neat take on “reflectors”. Minions in general are fun too @ Side Special: nice and simple, each one has their own threatening attack.

(Up Special says it’s for a magical potion, but involves Kupa using a warp pipe to recover)

As with the other FFC sets, this one has all the Smash applications and playstyle stuff honed down. Side Special and even Down Special are decent enough hooks to get me interested, but it would be cool if some of the moves were tied together to get a better idea of how they work in tandem and with Kupa’s neutral game. For instance, what options can Kupa get from his Back Throw tech chasing? And his Dash Attack tripping? I could see the minions (and mechakoopas) being used to limit an opponent’s get-up option. Kupa has anti-air options too, which could be used to manipulate an opponent into landing near a minion. Sorry if that all sounds weird and wanting too much from you. But a fun set anyway.


And here’s the big one. Switching to a second form upon taking 50% is a cool concept, not to mention ambitious as you have to write up 2 sets for the price of one. I like the implications behind La Croix being very limited in how long she can stay in her first form, and that high weight stat working against her as it makes her easy to combo. Lets you justify her having a crazy moveset in her first form (probably not your intention here - could be a fun idea for a different set).

This is the first FFE set that doesn’t list damage/frame data/etc. at the start of the move: less detail, but I’m okay with that, understandable on a set of this scale. You mention that you wanted to remake La Croix for MYM26, I believe?

  • RNG is a bit of a controversial topic in MYM, but I think it’s cool, so long as the author justifies the reasoning behind the randomness. I assume Jab’s syringe is a projectile: all the RNG effects feel decent for it. Helps that the limited first form time balances it. I’m assuming that the poison effect doesn’t stack - maybe when the foe is poisoned, they’ll only be effected by the darkness, paralysis or control reversal?
  • Past that, the regular moves are all simple enough, with no particular stand-outs. I do like how the Specials being evasive/stun-based contribute to staying in 1st form for longer, balanced out by being easy to combo! I do like Side Special being a solid combo-starting projectile with a cooldown, goads opponents into getting aggressive on you to use it again.
  • Does feel a bit redundant to have quick projectile throws on Jab, Neutral Special and Side Special, especially when there isn’t a huge variation between them. Maybe Neutral Special and Side Special could be on the same input (tap vs hold the button?). Maybe make current Jab a tapped Neutral Special?
  • I will admit that I thought La Croix would have some kind of flip (Zero Suit Samus Down Special?) or casual movement-based attack on one of her Specials, given her Specials are mentioned to be evasive. Sure, there’s Up Special, but having a nice mobility tool that can move you on demand would be cool. Could be Side Special if your remake Croix next contest.
  • I think that Up Special’s teleport timer should be reduced to 1 second. Maybe the blast should knock foes away in the opposite direction you were facing with good stun, as opposed to being 3 seconds of stun (which sounds uncomfortable, even if it does have synergy with Croix’s poison-based damage). Dealing that kind of knockback could make it a fun kill reversal if you’re recovering.
  • Down Special is what I wanted with Croix, a self-damage move to hasten your transformation or go into second form on-demand. Given the logic behind slowing opponents down with the blood you drew from your syringe, I’m assuming that you only get one shot with the status effect? I do like the idea behind being able to change the status effects you inflict with Jab.

Second form Croix being a lightweight is a fun contrast to her first form. I like her design too, even if character designs don’t contribute to where I rank sets. Having a bunch of minions to control is hype; the mechanics behind having 1 monster fighting alongside you and the other attacking from the background is cool and ambitious - I’m guessing that you get 3 pairs that are fixed, rather than being able to customize the near and far monster pairings (which could be really cool). I thought that all 6 of the monsters would have near and far forms, thought that would have been insanely ambitious. The minions having limited HP per stock is neat too.

3 second stone effect might be too much long for Neutral Special’s grab - maybe allow opponents to mash out, like Yoshi’s Neutral Special. I do like Croix’s Specials being used to support her minions though - beyond healing (and applying status effect on opponent to weaken their damage), maybe you could do some extra things in the bigger set, like buffing the monsters’ speed or attack?

What if the poison effects from La Croix’s first form had some kind of hard interaction with her monsters, where it enhanced some of their attacks if they struck a poisoned opponent? Gives you an incentive to tack on first form’s status effects and go into second form while the poison is still active. Maybe monsters deal more damage to bleeding opponents? It would be a cool way to tie the two forms together, which is something I’d like to see. As cool as the form shifting concept is, the set could potentially just be for 2nd form Croix.

Being able to use multiple of all of Zenova’s directional Aerials at the same time is a cool concept! It’s balanced neatly too, thanks to their thin hitboxes and their landing lag being combined afterwards. Very inventive - wouldn’t mind stealing it. I like how these directional Aerials can link into themselves. Roza Down Special summon a minion of her own (on top of the minion partner assigned to her!) from passive patches she creates on the ground by moving is neat too. Aria’s restraining grab works well with Roza’s hard hitting heavyweight nature.

Overall, La Croix felt a bit more like reading a moveset preview rather than the full product, given your plans for the set, but there were some cool ideas hidden away. The set compromising on detail does make it weaker than your others I’ve read, in my opinion, but I would be very interested in seeing this set get the full 27k or so treatment that you brought up, were you to enhance the detail on her entire set up to MYM’s lofty standards.

Skipping ahead to Rugal for now to give other setmakers attention.

Welcome to MYM, That Guyy! You got a lot of submissions, and one awesome opening choice in Rugal. We’ve been wanting a moveset for him for the longest time - a dream come true, together with Senator Armstrong this contest. Loving your writing here. Didn’t expect God Rugal to be an actual super form in his set - one person in this community even considered making a set solely for God Rugal.

The base here is pretty neat: your Specials are powerful, but they drain meter on use, so you don’t get to play god if you use them too much (I’m assuming you can still use them even if you don’t have meter). Especially Down Special, which has a ridiculously powerful reflector at the cost of extra meter drain. I wonder if Rugal Execution should kill earlier, given the hoops you have to go through to play God Rugal, and needing to land a command grab that costs 2 seconds of time to use? Some KO percents like F-air feel underpowered, but Smashes seem fine in general.

A simple moveset really, but it gets a good amount of mileage from its wordcount thanks to a lot of (fitting) Terry comparisons. You’ll see in my Jo’on and Shion comment for Old Man Han that sets for fighting game characters can get really in-depth in MYM. But Rugal’s shortness makes him a refreshing fighting game set, one that manages to get its points across well showing off love and history for the character in the GIFs, character trivia, extras and writing style. And that makes him an enjoyable read in my books.
 
Last edited:

FrozenRoy

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
Messages
1,186
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
Switch FC
SW-1325-2408-7513
Poverty and Pestilence (Cute Girl Edition) (Jo'on and Shion Yorigami OldManHan OldManHan )

It's definitely very interesting that this moveset has the patch notes directly in the moves and discussing how it "worked with old Side Special" or the like. I assume this is for FFC judging and to let people know about fixed balance issues, but it does read somewhat awkward without any context and with the fact that patch notes are usually included at the end of MYM sets instead. And also because info about how a current move works will bleed into the patch notes at times. I'd also say this is definitely a set where at least introducing Neutral Special (if not all Specials) earlier would be better: The teleport effect from it is vital to the set and yet not explained at all before the end, which contributes to the segments feeling bare as you cannot discuss how Neutral Special actually helps, and you flatout have a grab system reliant on it for boosted versions but have not given the reader enough information to even understand what that means. It also is bizarre since Neutral Special is pretty obviously the core gameplan of the set even if it is not intended, as their combo game doesn't have many alternatives otherwise.

Jo'on has a pretty simple combo game which is largely based around NAir/UAir loops with little else, and I think this is where the set more falters on a core since her entire ground game is also focused on getting foes into the air. It's a rather uninteresting combo game and feels a bit odd that she doesn't have more options than FAir for real combo ending, Down Aerial and its potential drag down are cool enough but it feels like it is carrying the robust nature of the combo game overall. Part of this might be from a lack of air-to-ground side combos due to just how laser focused are on getting the foe into the air. Neutral Special is core because the teleporting option means that Jo'on has unique combo extension in addition to approaching, but there isn't really much aerially that has that cool or flashy pop to it. I do like how much the pair have a clear gameplan they work towards and it isn't quite bad, just a bit...uninteresting outside of Down Aerial? I think it would have been great if Jo'on had more to work into the teleportation, such as an aerial with a powerful killer sweetspot or Down Special being able to 50/50 it (although it'd perhaps not want to suicide kill in that case) or something else a bit more "cool". I also think some more depth to Jo'on's grounded combo game would be good: Ironically despite Dash Attack saying it was improved by not making it a kill move, I think giving it some kind of cool combo ender property or something would be much more fun than it is right now, where it feels redundant with the other tilts and maybe a bit odd overall.

My recommendation would be to keep the cool bounce back part of the move, something I do like, and having it deal high damage plus a lower knockback angle that starts off tech chases. Maybe even amp the damage and the starting framess by a few. This would give it an interesting niche as a combo ender that can put the opponent in prone for a different level of gameplay, some more combo ender variety to the set and...for example, having a Neutral Special on the foe allows Jo'on to follow techs / getup options better than most characters, so now you could add some notes about how Neutral Special makes tech situations good for more combo / power options.

Keeping to the aerial part of this segment for a bit, Neutral Aerial is probably pretty busted (I have no idea why DAir was such an issue with the tweak you said when this is stronger). Little Mac gets away with his super fast NAir due to his bad air stats, terrible air follow-up options and so on, and is still 3 frames laggier at a total of 15 frames. The fact this has actual range ("a negligible amount of disjoint" probably beats out Little Mac, poor guy), more than twice the damage, actual combo loops AND is only 12 frames from start to total finish is simply far too much, mostly the speed as 12 frames total is ludicrously fast in Smash. I would increase the ending lag (4 frame start-up and 4 frame active is fine) to make it more balanced: It should still link into itself just fine with that increase.

Empowered throws, an MYM classic, here they largely take the original throw and amp it up. I don't like Back Throw making Shion disappear for the stock: It feels a bit random on Back Throw, not to mention casual unfriendly with how it makes a random throw undo a whole mechanic in a way that's not intuitive. Here's an idea: Instead move it onto the Down Special command grab where getting the command grab out with Neutral Special on the foe either empowered the A/B options OR unlocks an especially powerful variant via a B + A input instead of B or A! This would add some inter-Special synergy in a fun way, add some flash to all of them, make it harder to just accidentally remove an entire important mechanic from the set, and overall feel good. I'll also use this note to say I'd make NSpec quicker to start but laggier to end, as I feel that would allow Jo'on more opportunities to use her rather enjoyable teleportation mechanic but more punishable when she messes up applying it / spamming it. I also think that the Empowered Throws could maybe do a bit more, but I don't have a specific idea in mind.

Some other random brief thoughts: TBH I feel Jo'on with more kill moves or some more strength would be fine, as her combo game doesn't really feel all that strong overall. Up Smash has uses to catch landings that since it is one of their only KO tools feels worth going into (and ways that it could be set up). Base Down Throw's forced tech throw seems odd. Forward Tilt was fun and I appreciate the Jab -> Tilt gimmick. While I'm not too enthused with a lot of the set, there's at least parts of it that feel enjoyable, and a lot of it meets an okay baseline quality (like all the tilts are good enough for example and I particularly liked Up Tilt's jump cancel vs. end lag much like Kat, Down Aerial is quite fun, Neutral Special is a strong core idea).

Overall, Jo'on is a solid enough if somewhat not too unique set with some fun gimmicks (NSpec and DAir primarily) to itself with the occassional design decision that feels off or balance issue. It does feel like part of my issue might just be the fact it does feel like the set could dig into specifics more, but it isn't too bad about that. The way Neutral Special works made me imagine an Ice Climbers-style duo set with this NSpec (or some non-IC duo set), where you could desync and then swap between members for teleporting combos, or sacrifice your AI partner temporarily to have them haunt the foe for debuffs + a teleport on them or something. I may have rambled on too long here, especially since as it approaches 3:30 AM I am not the most crisply coherent, but...yeah.
 

tunz

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 4, 2022
Messages
7
Comments on Saul Goodman by BKupa666 BKupa666 and Rychu Rychu

Man this set is fun! I pretty much only have positive feedback, so here we go:
-This set is incredibly funny, riddled with references in both move concepts and within the text explaining the moves!
-The way you just paused the Neutral B explanation to explain Down B, and then use Down Tilt as an example for how to use Down B, only to then finish the Neutral B section. That is bold, but you made it work.
-The general concept of having to record your enemies comitting crime is so fun!
-I can imagine professional commentators having a blast with Saul in a tourney match, and that makes me smile :)
-The fact that Neutral B alone houses two huge gimmicks is an accomplishment all on its own.
-As a massive Huell Babineaux fan, Huell should've been a prominant business contact in my opinion, but I do understand why not, and I do love his role in Saul's Grab Game. Just saying, Huell is the absolute best HMA out there.
-Mike is one of my favorite characters alongside Huell, so I love his inclusion and especially his voice lines.
-I can just imagine Saul's shieldbreak game is insane, which is insanely hype.
-I really like the mechanics with Business Contacts and cars from Side B. I can imagine a bunch of hype combos with it.
-Not even just that move, but a whole lot of the moves can work with each other, and the fact that you guys clearly thought it all through and explained it.
-Characters who can create stage or platforms, like with Saul's billboards, are automatically cool.
-This is an incredibly well done trapper character.
-Saul would be broken in doubles, IF him and his teammate are smart and skillful about it. Rewarding skill is always good.
-Lenny's usefulness being dictated by the matchup is a fun concept, and doesn't stop Saul from excecuting his main game plan since it doesn't completely revolve around Lenny.
-Not to even mention, Lenny in general is a really fun concept and I love how he was done and explained.
-The Final Smash is so much fun, I was genuinely chuckling while reading it. Especially the part about Saul's ****-eating grin.
-Maybe my favorite thing about this set is the sheer amount of characters that are included in his moves like Neutral B, Grab, Final Smash etc.

There are a few small nitpicks I have though:
-Is Up Taunt usable online?
-Could've had a bit more trivial information in the extras section, but that wasn't required or recommended, so no sweat off my back, but it would've made it a bit more fleshed out. Not that it doesn't already feel fleshed out, though!

But overall, an incredibly fun read! Probably my favorite set I've read so far!
 

Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,143
Location
The Make Your Move Rooligan Society
WTF character choices are rare in MYM, but when they do come I am all for them. The idea of a random shoe getting a moveset is ridiculous, and I love it. One-liner sets are normally the signs of a joke set, but listing damage, frame data and kill percents helps to flesh out these moves in a way that old MYM1-3 joke sets didn’t do. I’m impressed that some of these moves are accompanied by drawings, and some of the animations that only a shoe could pull off like Dash Attack (use shoelaces to boost yourself forward). Other than that, Shoe is an understandably simple set that revolves around its Limit-Break style sole mechanic.

“Pros:
Shoe’s really good at keeping their opponent on their feet” Pfft.

Also, I enjoyed the Snake Codec and Palutena’s Guidance extras: a fitting character to make them for.


I thought this was a set for Superman when I saw the document’s title.

Welcome to MYM, Brazillian Guy! Getting more My Hero Academia sets is sweet: this one marks our 6th in MYM, alongside Deku this contest, Shigaraki in MYM24, Ochako in MYM23, Bakugo in MYM22 and Himiko Toga in MYM21.

(lol, not expecting an image like that on the stats section)

Neutral Special is a pretty cool base! Longer charge = more steel time works well, and I appreciate that the buffs you do get are balanced. Tetsutestu being OHKO’ed by Metal Slash, and burning Tetsu dealing fire damage (but only being a visual effect!) are nice touches too.

I do wonder if the charge time is a bit committal for how much reward Tetsu gets: two second of steel time doesn’t feel like much for one second of charge. Maybe Tetsu’s steel time is 4x or 5x the time he spent charging, but he can only charge for up to 3 seconds? Prevents him from staying steel for his entire stock, but also gives him a good amount of steel time for the amount of charge time he commits. Maybe charging Neutral Special also gives Tetsu percent-based armour against projectiles, forcing opponents to approach him or try to beat out his armour with multiple projectiles?

The rest of the moveset is pretty simple, fair when we’re talking about Tetsutetsu. I do like how his Smashes are fighting game inspired because Tetsutetsu likes fighting games! Nice and amusing character pick.


Your next Touhou set and final set this contest. Right off the bat is a neat meter-based mechanic that’s channeled into a lot of what Mima can do: neat that this applies to her shields and dodges, and that her Specials can backfire on her if she’s hit during their start-up and doesn’t have enough meter to pay for the double-consumption penalty! Her shield is very unique, as it’s essentially a much more durable shield at the cost of tying in with her meter - expend too much meter for offense, and you won’t have any for defense. The Complete Darkness mechanic is a bit vaguely-described, as I’m not sure about the implications of its movement bonuses or how far or long Mima can move out of her dodges. Or specifically how much meter it drains.

Onto meter moves. Dash Attack being tied behind meter is interesting, as it means that Mimia can be locked out of a burst option if she isn’t willing to invest in the move’s relatively high price for its reward. U-air feels pretty fair, it’s an intimidating move but doesn’t have ridiculous kill power. Nice that F-Smash and D-Smash can be upgraded with meter, and don’t rely on it to be used. U-Smash is actually a really cool move: big, powerful hitbox that hits on frame 2 and is an insane out-of-shield option, but takes up 4 segments of meter (limiting its usage from shield), and is massively punishing if it misses. The start-up does feel a bit extreme, partially because its high damage would naturally lead to dealing a lot of shield damage. Otherwise, I could see the threat of Mima pulling out an U-Smash being a great tool to condition foes into shielding and getting around the move - I assume that U-Smash is unsafe on block.

Neutral and Side Special are pretty solid zoning tools, the former having the fun where you can set it as a delayed hitbox to fly to Mima’s current location after a moment. But the craziness begins on Up Special that the move foreshadowed too: free flight that lets you use your grounded moves in midair, limited only by meter usage! I appreciate that the throws and other grounded moves were balanced out to make them less absurd when hitting foes in the air, with Smashes being entirely unusable. The meter cost for using your Up Special also means that Mima is in big trouble if she is knocked off the stage without any meter. Down Special’s meter-costing follow-up hit is nice: buffs the next 3 energy-influenced attacks, including some meter-stealing and cost-lowering aspects, and gives Mima some healing that is admittedly useful due to the unreliable nature of her recovery.

All and all, my second favourite set of yours posted this contest. Keep up the heavyweight devotion.
 

Arctic Tern

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 12, 2022
Messages
57
KANADE (Kat)

Kanade opens up with a surprising concept at first glance; his Neutral, Side, and Down Specials are all determined by RNG! Despite the base concept, the set still manages to maintain a coherent playstyle, as they all fill different niches; NSpec fires projectiles that all serve as good neutral tools, SSpec uses various support options, while DSpec is a counter that has varying effects based off the specific spell in Kanade’s list. Most importantly, however, Kanade is actually capable of storing these spells for later via Shield Special, allowing him to actually plan around the attacks he gets from RNG.

The Specials themselves are suitably quite versatile. While I don’t really have much to say about the NSpecs, the SSpecs get really weird, with water pillars that reflect projectiles, creating smoke that hides Kanade’s hitboxes and prevents foes from shielding his own projectiles, the ability to keep his own hitboxes in place, and creating a clone that can do almost anything he can. DSpec’s counter options are also quite interesting; there’s a standard counter, but also one that freezes his stale move queue (since he’ll be using NSpec a lot) and one that warps the opponent to various positions while creating portals to better follow up. That’s already a lot of options, and they get even crazier when Kanade’s other moves are taken into account. This is another reason why I love how the RNG is handled; it acts as a balance to the amount of stuff Kanade can pull off with enough setup since he may not even have that setup and can be pressured into not being able to use it at all for at least 12 seconds.

Onto his other moves, I’ll be going with cliff notes over what I liked since basically every move has a gimmick to it. The moves that vary based off the spells Kanade currently has were cool, I liked the UAir teleport and how it works with his preference with being above the foe, the UThrow barrier was nicely implemented as an aerial pitfall, and the FSmash wall is patently ridiculous but still manages to feel balanced. Throughout it all, the set manages to keep a consistent theme of being unsafe on close range to counteract Kanade’s gimmicks, as well as having multiple tools to bait out a counter; plus, a few moves that don’t have gimmicks just meant to fill niches in his gameplan, and ones that I assume he uses quite frequently in BOFURI. I also like how the interplay with the Specials was handled, with only especially noteworthy connections listed and not all of them since there’s a lot to handle. It all feels very big brained in every way possible, very much in line with Kanade’s character.

Overall, Kanade is a very cool modern take on the sandbox set, managing to create a coherent playstyle out of something as inherently unpredictable as RNG. Very impressive work!

SAUL GOODMAN (Kupa/Rychu)

Saul has been kind of a hype character for MYM, especially after Walt managed to place 1st last contest. And I gotta say, this did not disappoint!

Jimmy’s main gimmick is, naturally, suing the foe on false grounds to both debuff the foe and gain funds for his more intensive tools. The way this works is also fascinating, with there being three different debuffs that Saul has to choose from, potentially incentivising him to not use hit causal combo tools like UAir or DTilt. He’ll mostly be using this for his summons, which serve a variety of purposes. The weaker summons serve as obstructions/basic tools for building up lawsuits, a middle ground follows Saul, either increasing his attack speed or following his attacks with either the foe’s or Saul’s own moveset, and the highest are reserved for his flashy kill tools, including a storm of support letters which sounds strangely animesque for the character.

Slipping away from the summons, Saul has other neat tricks at his disposal. His SSpec has him use a car to keep the opponent in before sending them out the windshield, which can either be used as a straightforward KO tool, a threat through having associates use the move, or a means to bait a lawsuit through filming them destroying the car or being with someone else in the car. FSmash summons a bowling ball that Saul can spend money to have stay out as a powerful throwing item; foes can use it, but that could rack up a charge. There’s a lot of cool moves in the set that all work well into Saul’s lawsuits or summons, so I won’t go into them all here.

What really sells me on the set is the playstyle. I have not watched anything in the Methverse, but even then it’s easy to tell who Saul is like; a conman who manipulates other people into doing his dirty work for him. Not only is this encapsulated in the basic hook, but in how he gets his lawsuits; he can fake taking knockback after dodging a move but still use that to buff his NSpec (the lawsuit move I forgot to mention) and film an associate dressed as his foe to frame them for crimes. I also adored the parallels to the previous Walt set: not only do they both have monetary related mechanics, but they share a car SSpec, a ladder USpec, a projectile FSmash, and a special pummel, each of which serve different purposes than Walt’s do.

To close this off, Saul manages to make the most of the character choice to make a set that perfectly summarizes both him and his show. Mechanics, flavor, execution… it's all good, man.

See more comments and ratings on my personal page!
 

FrozenRoy

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
Messages
1,186
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
Switch FC
SW-1325-2408-7513
See You, Space Cowgirl... (Tsukumo Sana bubbyboytoo bubbyboytoo )

Moveset is BEEG!

Sana, to me, in some ways ended up feeling like the platonic (or perhaps planetonic?) ideal of a Bubby character, having a fairly simple base with the planets that gets some spice added to with the size shifting and then built upon in a logical, focused way throughout the set. The size shifting is rightfully subdued, but aware of the fact that the increase in range alone is a potent tool for Sana to use that can come back to bite her because of blind spots. The buildup past this largely involves a mix of simple but well designed melee attacks that also manipulate her planets, such as Down Smash, Down Tilt, Up Aerial, Down Aerial and Up Throw. This is where the real meat of the moveset comes in IMO, as Sana has a lot of fun direct attack scenarios out of these.

Down Aerial is a personal favorite of the set, with multiple hitboxes that see use within the set from a flashy spike to groundbounce combos because Sana being BEEG allows her to combo at higher heights more easily, then on top of that she gets lag cancels and projectile properties from smashing into her planets. Up Throw is the kind of move I enjoy in a moveset as well, a fun redirect with applications that are really up to the player but with some downside if they don't play it right, given Sana has other throws she can use in a lot of scenarios. Moves like Forward Tilt are understated good points: It's a nice move overall but I particularly enjoy it as one of the blindspot moves Sana has, having great yet flawed coverage when Big that along with Up Tilt (itself a flawed anti-air with no ground coverage) and Down Tilt gives Big Sana some excellent zoning that opponents can break nicely with prediction or Sana misusing her tools, Forward Smash itself playing into both this style of gameplan and her overall defensive-zoner self while weaving back into her planetary manipulation by making it manipulatable.

Up Smash is naturally another centerpiece, being her laggy but highly rewarding option to mix into Side Special's gravity push. I particularly like how charging it powers it up via a duration increase rather than damage scaling, as it not only works into how the knockback uniquely scales but also gives Sana more time to either manipulate it OR use its gravity pull to manipulate her own existing / new projectiles. And on top of that, it serves as a fun drag-off kill move when send offstage with Side Special and its duration! It definitely helped pull the centerpieces together for me. Oh, and since I can't find anywhere else to point it out specifically, I find the Big Side Special on a moon to be really fun, high speed super strong sniping tool (Byleth Mains Unite) with cool range. Up Special's funky hitbox was interesting to envision and felt like a good use of her Space powerset.

I do think that the set could give a little bit More to Sana's size-shifting, and probably in general a bit More? One I mentioned in chat as an idea is making it so Black Holes destroying planets (and maybe other objects?) doesn't just destroy them, but adds some duration (and thus power) to the black hole up to a cap. This fits the flavor of a black hole (and, IMO, Sana's lore style of "oops accidentally destroyed this!" like crashing into the Earth. She might destroy a nearby planet or two, but such is life) and would add some extra nuance to its planetary functions. Similarly, I think that Dash Attack could have an exaggerated sweetspot closer in power to the Knee of Justice while Big as a reward for such a stringent sweetspot on an attack which now is liable to miss grounded characters and thus require even more Skill to hit even if it's technically larger, and it also would just had a Cool factor to landing this risky attack while a Big target. Forward Smash feels like it could become bigger with Big to feel a bit less funny as an animation and as a slight buff, although if you don't enjoy that I think it is fine as-is.

I would be remiss if I didn't mention the characterization this moveset exudes, both in the amusing and fun textual explanations of the move that get across Sana's character and in the amount of extras in the set. I would probably main Apostle or Singularity color Sana, as those are good color coordinated looks. The victory poses are very good, and Abyss Runes are generally fun to see, some of these feel like stuff to mine for later set ideas such as Rune M. It would be fun if Sana had a permanently-Big Boss Mode with a lot of buffs to emphasize her power as part of Council, with either an ability to go Further Beyond in how Big she can get or some kind of new, powerful Boss exclusive move to go over Down Special.

Overall, I feel confident in saying that Sana is the best Bubby set I've read so far (I haven't read Asbestos) that he's made and feels like another link in the linear chain of Bubby's quality. The fact that everything I have heard said this competition has Very High Competition means it'll be hard to beat out Cyclohm, but I sure hope it does (or at the least beats Calli) as i would enjoy seeing you rewarded for your continued evolution as a setmaker. This set felt on par with Valkyrie for me and while RV+ would depend on the rest of the contest (people keep saying they have SVs like 12-15 deep they wish they had, so) this set ain't leaving RV for me unless something seriously goes up. Good work, Bubby!

Get Rotated (Fire Bar n88 n88 )

The year is 2022. The Nintendo Gamecube is 21 years old in Japan and, much like me, is able to drink. Will I do so? No, because I don't drink. But we are going to get another set that can't move, as per yearly tradition. Despite the fact this idea has such obvious problems with workability, it seems like the trend of making them will never end, which given Make Your Move is a for-fun contest is more than fine with me because it ends up funny. Perhaps I, too, cannot move on from the constructed prison around me, much like the central fireball within Fire Bar, constrained by a brick that it never asked for yet perishing if it fails to return to it on Down Aerial. Can we not all find applicability within the plight of the poor Fire Bar? Does going through life not sometimes feel like awkwardly using Side Special to hobble yourself forward a variable length depending on your passive hitbox, struggling to surge in this world that clings to us like molasses?

I don't know. As far as sets that cannot perform the most simple of actions, moving, Fire Bar feels interesting. The passive hitbox instantly gives it value as a defensive character around which the foe needs to be always careful to time their approach, to consider their options, a characterization that fits well as the Fire Bar serves a similar purpose within Mario. The ways in which it can move mean it can...potentially function, although I shudder to imagine how it plays against a character like Cloud who will be limit camping. I suppose the potential range it has equals it out? The moveset in some ways reminds me of Primordial Darkness, of all things!, in the ability for attacks to function within hitstun and also the deep, deep polarization between what it can do and what it cannot. It is, of course, not close to Primordial Darkness in quality. It is simply a brick. Another brick in the wall.

I initially had the thought that the lack of ways to deal with projectiles would cripple it too much, but the ability to grab projectiles and compress them into the Fire Bar's fire rotation helps give counterplay. It is also very interesting as it gives more variety to how Fire Bar can use tools intended for a fireball such as Up Smash. What happens if a projectile gets destroyed and leaves a gap in the chain? This is a question Socrates first asked in the ancient Greece days. Alas, he hated writing, at least according to Plato. So we can only apply the Socratic Method to find out.

Some of the attacks like Up Tilt and Down Aerial provide interesting hitboxes, and the moveset plays around with the extremity with a sort of quasi-series psuedo-joking manner that leaves it playful, open to curiousity, yet not farcical. It certainly invites the reader to enjoy the set and not think too hard about it. The writing is very funny and constantly enjoyable, such as Side Aerial, Dash Attack may have shaved years off my life as I read it in hilarity. This moveset has turn staling. My mind instantly thought of how turn staling could be an interesting part of an autoturn character, or on a character who gets pivot bonuses on attacks to prevent spam. Fire Bar cannot turn around. This is my Giganotosaurus.

I am conflicted between this set being surprisingly good for one of the most difficult concepts possible or being utter garbage that is still redeemed by the very funny writing. Being unable to move feels like it still presents many challenges. What does playing Fire Bar feel like on Big Blue, or DK Falls? Should the Fire Bar player just Side Special off stage and try again on 75m? Why couldn't the Fire Bar just move? It would be funny if Fire Bar could do Instant Dash Attack to actually use Dash Attack in place, but this is even funnier. What happens when this thing is put into prone? Can it prone roll or does it silently cry itself to sleep if Ganondorf Side Specials it? Whatever. Five stars. Maybe I'll look at it again later. Between this and Idar, you seem to have a masterful knack for turning hilarious unplayable stuff into something worthwhile. #FireBarSweep, because the fire literally sweeps across the bar.
 

Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,143
Location
The Make Your Move Rooligan Society
Oh nice, a Blazblue set. If you like Blazblue, you’ll love reading the full-on Hakumen set that we got this contest!

I’m assuming that Celica gaining 3 quartercircles requires her to fulfill all 3 requirements, and not just one of them (it is worded a bit confusingly). Basically your big fighting game finishing move, though the requirements to get your super inputs do feel more situational than I’d like when you only get them on your last stock among other requirements. It’s nice that this set explains fighting game inputs to the average Smash audience (don’t worry, we’re all pretty well-versed in fighting game stuff with all the big Street Fighter sets we’ve gotten). Voice lines in attacks is fun too. Such is the benefit of having a voiced fighting game as your set’s source material.

(Dash Attack says it takes a bit to get out of, but its first actionable frame is 24 while its active frames are 7-14, which equates to really low end lag. No biggee, easy to fix. Alternatively, you might be referring to end lag rather than FAF, which would make sense given the FAF numbers on a number of these inputs.) Start-up does seem really fast for Neutral Special projectile, though, as well as Side Special; projectiles and movement-based attacks don’t normally start up in less than 10 frames - a movement-based attack that comes out on frame 2 would be utterly insane by Smash standards. Diddy Kong’s Side Special, which doesn’t grab until frame 18, is still pretty fast by Smash standards. Celica’s Up Special is strangely slow by comparison, but then her main recovery is meant to be bad.

Did you draw those images, like the ones on Up Tilt, Up Air and Neutral Air? Because they’re really good. It’s pretty hilarious that you’re going for original animations in this set, and not just using attacks from Blazblue (which is perfectly fine, too!). Super moves from fighting games are always fun to see in movesets, too.

A fun set, but I did prefer Felicia for having a stronger hook, more interesting ideas and what I thought was more prevalent characterization with her assists.


I am not familiar with the Yakuza series, but I do know that people really like this guy and have wanted to make a set for him. It was enjoyable to read his intro, and his “Majima Everywhere” mechanic is humorously weird: it is very, very rare that MYM sets will play around with respawning mechanics, but it does make you think. This already makes Majima’s set feel more creative than Rugal’s, thanks to being a Smash original thing. There’s certainly a lot that Majima can do with his Heat attacks: an attack that hits prone opponents, and one that works as a very tight counter against opponents just before they hit your shield.

Majima’s 4 movesets are pretty simple, but shows that he can do quite a lot in his source material! It’s commendable that you compiled all the GIFs that you did. A fun experience, coming from someone who doesn’t know the gameplay, portrays the character nicely like you did with Rugal. There is not a lot of detail on how his attacks work together or a lot of their applications, but among them I did like:

  • Thug Side Special’s racing car trap + ramp.
  • Mad Dog’s speed buff you get with every 5 attacks.
  • Mad Dog Down Special’s random and utterly bizarre shadow clone attack. While the RNG makes it unreliable for getting a specific attack you want, this is a fun take on the duplicate concept that MYM has seen quite a bit of in its history - we normally allow our characters to program their duplicates.
  • Disco’s gimmick of maintaining a hitbox indefinitely is unique, but giving him armour during his compulsory taunt animation afterwards does feel a bit potent, - you could tank through an attack that the opponent went through to get through your continuous hitbox.
  • I’m assuming that Slugger’s Power Surge gimmick only protects you from light hitstun, and is basically similar to Bowser’s Tough Guy armour? Would be common sense not to make him outright immune to hitstun.


Welcome to MYM! Finally got around to one of your sets, Daehypeels. I remember we got a set for FE Anna back in MYM16. In fact, we got a set for Daisy from Fire Emblem too, who has gold and weapon durability gimmicks like Anna does. You might be interested in reading her, as she’s a short set. Unique here is Anna’s weapon quality, where silver attacks deal a ton of damage but both need a lot of gold (deal lots of damage, don’t take much damage) but also break with less hits. 40, 25-20 and 10 hits on each weapon does sound like a bit much - I can’t imagine Anna landing 40 hits on an opponent with a bronze weapon in an entire stock.

It’s funny how we’ve had (at least) 2 sets on the last day of MYM25 with money-hauling mechanics that slow down the user when they have a lot of money.

Hope you don’t mind me saying this, but there are parts in the set where you talk about your thought process on a move, and it doesn’t contribute to understanding the attack - just makes for an unnecessary read. For example, this paragraph on Neutral Special:

“While thinking about this move, I kept flip-flopping between having the bag be interactable with the opponent or not. If the opponent can’t do anything about it, it’s far easier for Anna to play around with it, change her playstyle on the fly much easier (partially rewarding good placement and space management), and removes a bit of weight from the player’s shoulders as it’s one less thing to worry about. But if I made it interactable, there’s then an additional factor of potential fun where it not only slightly screws with certain opponents (forcing someone to move around or attack an obstacle that never despawns normally is fun) but also encouraging a bit of risk/reward thinking on the opponent’s part in certain situations, such as choosing between attempting to gimp Anna or kicking the bag further out of her reach and/or offstage. Both are options I’m fond of, and I fully wrote out the explanation for the latter initially.”

As you’re using Google Docs, I’d suggest using the “Summary” option on the left to add these kinds of author’s notes. Or show them in a different font in the set. Other than that, nothing wrong with throwing out your personal thoughts! It’s interesting to hear about your personal thought process.
“I don’t think this is a super defining move of Anna’s kit, but it’s definitely something for the opponent to watch out for.”


It can sound like you’re not confident on certain parts of your set, like Neutral Special above. But hey, no one said making hypothetical movesets for a fighting game was a breeze! Even some of us who have been doing this for over 10 years have trouble at times.

Heh, Anna’s Jab permanently lowering the opponent’s weight instead of damaging them is funny - we don’t get this kind of thing much in MYM. I get the logic behind it. Attacks are kinda missing damage percents though, and I would like to see the power differences between weapon qualities to really sell, say, how strong a silver weapon can be when you get one. I agree on your Up Tilt statement that sets need “generic” (simple) attacks, but the way a set describes the applications of those moves and their relation to the rest of the moveset can sell it. For instance, generic sword swing upwards on Up Tilt could combo into the moveset’s quick Neutral Air, but the moveset is unsafe against shields: foes will want to go for shield if you’re just throwing out Up Tilts, a behaviour that you could exploit with anti-shield options (Anna’s Down Tilt would be a good example of this).

Up Smash’s arcing arrow attack is fun. We like these projectile-like regular attacks in MYM. Down Smash is uhhh… would prefer for fighters’ non-Special attacks to have hitboxes (no lag or hitbox is described here - for all I know it probably deals no knockback or hitstun but has similar lag to a regular Down Smash, which would get Anna punished even if she connected it). Banning your opponent’s Specials doesn’t feel super fun when you’re banning their recovery: 8-24 seconds is a pretty long time too. We actually got a set this contest that can ban entire attacks in a fighter’s moveset, but movement-based Specials just had their hitbox removed rather than preventing the opponent from using it. That moveset was Herminia by Junahu, if you were interested in checking it out.

It doesn’t seem like weapon quality affects Anna’s staff-using Jab or Down Smash.

Up Air is a funny kind of move, where you go into a lot more detail around its applications than usual. Down Air has the bag weight variety, but the hitbox details behind the attack feel vague. For grab games we’d prefer if their animations and all the throws were described - grab games are serious stuff in MYM! - but I do like how Anna’s Pummel gives her more gold than usual. Side Special is described as an anime-style rush, but it doesn’t seem to describe how Anna attacks her opponent as she rushes them - does she slash them with a sword?

Some fun mechanics here, but a few questionable parts, and the set can get unsure of itself while being vague on some of its attack descriptions. Nonetheless, I’m curious what’s in store for your next sets - especially when Regigigas and v-tan (who is 20k, which is very long for a moveset!) are among them.


Welcome to MYM, Awful Beast! Quite the interesting intro you’ve got for this character. I would admittedly be interested in hearing more about this character, - the way she is described in the set in derogatory terms and being good at annoying people makes her sound like she’s some kind of joke. You seem to like her character though, because you went through the awesome effort of throwing out an image for each of Dame’s hitboxes, as well as throwing up a UI for her! Nice work.

  • Neutral Special feels nice and balanced for a damage-nerf that needs to hit close-up, but the foe gets their power back just by dealing you 10%.
  • Giving your minions power you stole from your opponent - and making your opponent defeat that minion to get that power back - is a cool idea!
  • Side Special laser mentions having a tipper, but the laser is also mentioned to travel an infinite distance. I’m assuming that the sweetspot comes at a specific point of the laser.
  • Up Special is actually pretty awesome. The teleport isn’t reliable for recovery when you could end up warping offstage, but being able to send your opponents back to a specific time is pretty funky with your minions. We don’t get this kind of ridiculous thing these days. Reminds me of time-based sets we’ve gotten in MYM, like Father Time (MYM5), Kang the Conquerer (MYM12) and Young Xehanort (MYM13).
  • Sending your opponent back to a specific point in time would probably be near-impossible to use in practice, though: you’ll have no idea where the foe will end up at any specific point of releasing the move. Maybe hitting the foe just sends them back to where they were last hit? Nice and simple, keeps the move’s effect where Dame can send her opponents back to a disadvantaged state.
  • Sending aerial opponents into insta-death freefall with Down Special feels too strong - maybe it should just send them tumbling, like you performed a footstool jump on them?
  • Back Throw has some of that more “send them back to where they were before” funk.
  • Dash Attack should probably have a hitbox on it.
  • Calling Dame Dedtime lots of derogatory names in this set. I’m assuming this character gave you a hard time in her game?

This set has a good amount of potential for how short it is. It is largely held back by a lack of hitbox-based details: no damage percents and knockback. Minion details like lag, movement and size aren’t present, which does make it hard to get a full feel for how they would operate aside from basic information. I do have high expectations for minion sets though: there is honestly a lot of details about them that need to be fleshed-out and considered for them. Attacks past the Up Special don’t describe ways to play off the minions or interact with them - say, play around with an opponent who is distracted by wanting to get their power back by beating on your minion. To be fair though, you’re new to MYM, and talking a lot about minion interactions is pretty advanced stuff.

Anyway, nice work here.


Now this is an interesting character choice. I believe others told you that we got a set for Pete from Harvest Moon this contest. The money mechanic and using it to upgrade your tractor also reminds me of our recent and famous Saul Goodman set, which also has a money mechanic that you can use to spend on a car. At first I thought you were playing as the farmer themselves, and that the tractor was summoned on a Special, but it turns out you’re playing as the farmer on a tractor! That makes the mechanic of sowing seeds more appealing, as it occurs naturally as you’re running along the stage.

  • Harvester says it instantly KOs enemies who are “stuck in the ground” and over 75%. Does the former condition refer to burying? AKA the status effect you can give opponents with the Pitfall Seed or Inkling’s Side Special. Because that is actually pretty cool. If the tractor can insta-kill like this and speed across the stage with the Neutral Special input, I would suggest listing some start-up for it: movement-based attacks generally take at least 15 frames to start-up, as to make them reactable.
  • The fact that you’re playing as a vehicle naturally leads to some amusing attack animations, like all of the Tilts and the Neutral Air
  • Sorry if this sounds petty, but I am not a fan of Up Air’s animation where the forklift flings a pig upwards as a weapon. I dislike unnecessary portrayals of animal cruelty in fiction. Maybe the forklift could fling a barrel or an oil drum instead?

While the base mechanic is neat and simple enough, sowing seeds to get a stronger tractor, it’s hard to get a full sense for how the Farmer plays from his moves, which have relatively minimal details and little in the way of applications like combos, mix-ups or usages as neutral tools. It would also be cool if the set had played off the seed-sowing mechanic more: even if you didn’t do more with the seeds (like have attacks that interact with the seeds), you can say that frontal moves like Dash Attack and Forward Air are used to bash the opponent forward so you can continue to run along the stage and sow seeds.


We’ve had a set for at least one of these in the past, but not since Steve was added to Smash. Speaking of Steve, I find it funny that none of Creeper’s stats are compared to Steve (but he is referenced in the main set). Gunpowder mechanic sounds neat, creating a customizable explosive trail, but it is confusing in some areas:

“You have a near supply of Gunpowder at your disposal, about enough to make 100 Gunpowder Stack Pieces to work with.”

I’m assuming that Creeper’s gunpowder supply is limited per stock. I’m also unsure exactly what “stacks” refer to: is this when you overlap segments of gunpowder with each other? It would make sense with how more stacks deal more damage, covering less stage in exchange for a stronger hit.

  • “with enough knockback for characters above 20 to land on a platform” I know that the 20 refers to the foe’s damage percent, but at first I thought it was referring to their canonical age. A move that has different properties against opponents of different ages would be hilarious.
  • Jab and Forward Tilt are neat enough for their interactions with gunpowder.
  • I have never seen any moveset throw out pictures of movies as a substitute for actual words.
  • Neutral Special and Side Special don’t feel like they add a lot: you already have ways to spread gunpowder across the stage @ Neutral Special, and Side Special has no hitbox (which always spices up movement-based attacks, assuming the attack doesn’t give you other bonuses like cancels or enhancing your frame data).
  • It seems you didn’t have much potential to work with, given Creeper’s Side Special and Up Special involving cats and lightning. I’m assuming the latter is a reference to some kind of Minecraft media.
  • Down Special is the move we were waiting for, a hitbox that interacts with your gunpowder. Saying that the explosion is Creeper’s only kill move is false though: it has plenty of moves in its set that KO, like Up Special.
  • Unexpected Shield Special is another gunpowder interaction. I’m assuming all those stack damages listed at the start of the set are meant to be applied here? So a 7 stack gunpowder trail would ignite after 7-15 seconds and deal 70% if it hits? It’s a bit confusing when the details are split between the start and end of the set.

A neat enough set, but a little hard to understand the gimmick, and the moves that don’t set gunpowder don’t necessarily play off what you can do with the gunpowder. For instance, you could use a long stack of gunpowder for stage control into your bigger moves like F-Smash, or using moves to confirm into your Down Special or set foes up for a Shield Special blast. But you mentioned being on a short timer when you made this set, so it’s understandable that it’s not as fleshed-out as it could be.


I have a lot of esoteric character picks, but this is the one FFC character submission that I actually made myself in the past. Back in MYM9. It uhhh, wasn’t a very good set, but I have thought of ideas for a remake, and saw some videos praising how good of a villain he is. In any case, I was interested in seeing how you handled the character!

  • Making Mephilies a cowardly zoner checks with his character.
  • Unique Specials from your float is an interesting idea! (though it’s only one unique Special in this set)
  • Shade mechanic could be situational depending on the match-up, like if your opponent somehow has no attacks that hit the ground. Shouldn’t be a problem, though.

  • Backstabbing is fun and interestingly true to character - I didn’t know that Mephilies only attacked you when you weren’t looking at him in his 06’ boss fights. I like that it boosts his attack speed and not just his damage. The mechanic also goes into nice detail about its gameplay implications and how it can make Mephilies predictable if he goes for it too eagerly - I like that it acknowledges how airborne opponents can’t (casually) turn around to face you if you slip around to get behind them. Also neat to see that the mechanic gives some of Mephilies’s attacks unique benefits, like his Neutral Special.
  • Curiously, the way that Mephilies’s hover works, and that it takes half a second to make a shadow with his hover Neutral Special, means that he would need to hover in the air a few times without being hit to reach his max charge. The various ways he can send out his shadows to attack is nice.

  • I enjoy the We Are Number One reference on Side Special, which in itself plays off Mephilies’s backstabbing mechanic nicely. Given the sheer speed of the move, I’m assuming that Mephilies is vulnerable for his entire movement?
  • Down Special is certainly an interesting counter! Join Dame Dedtime in having an attack that sends you and your opponents back to a certain point in the back. As I mentioned then, this would probably be unreliable in practice when you probably won’t know where you have been exactly 5 seconds ago, especially when it’s tied to a counter.

  • 2 frames of end lag to a decent-ranged Down Tilt that’s active between frames 3-10 is awfully short.
  • Going more into combos at the end of the set is nice. There is some missed potential with the backstabbing mechanic though: it would be fun if the attack speed boost resulted in Mephilies getting some true combos, compared to if he wasn’t facing his opponent.

While the backstabbing mechanic is not as referenced as much as I’d like on the regular moves, this set’s concepts and Specials felt strong and coherent enough to make Mephilies my favourite set of yours! Much better than my Mephilies set. I’ve got 6 more of your sets left to read too, so who knows which one I’ll like best?
 
Last edited:

BrazilianGuy

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 10, 2022
Messages
9
Wellthis is my first time commenting on a moveset soo yeah, first moveset I got to in this tournament was Quaxly by WeirdChillFever. It caught my attention for it being for a Pokémon with so little source material, also Quaxly is my favorite new gen starter. It was quite impressive to see all that you could do with the little info given on the lil ducky, also loved the Down mechanic, the way it interacts with so many of his moves is awesome and now I hope he has something related to cleaning the floor in the games lmao. I kinda wish his Aqua Ring Up Throw was a move on its own so it could be used more often, but other than that I really enjoyed all his moves, specially his aerials and Down Smash. Also I fell like Down and tidy and earnest was used a lil bit much, but is understandable since he doesn't have much to really be done. In conclusion, Quaxly is the only character I know that has a Close Quackers Combat option so I really liked him. Ducky/10
 

n88

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 10, 2008
Messages
1,481
Hammer Bro by FrozenRoy FrozenRoy
I dig the Yoshi-esque second jump and the general design of the mechanics here. This would have been a good opportunity for a character with a distinctive short hop too - I think my main memory of these guys in SMB3 is trying to catch out the big jump they do vs the small one.

Using projectiles from Hammer Bro variants makes sense, though the Specials layout does end up feeling a little off to me. You bring up Piranha Plant as a point of reference in the set, but the variant-riffing hits a little different here, at least for me. I think that’s because Hammer Bro does have a signature move that feels like it should be the thing, but it’s not really given special treatment over the borrowed moves (or perhaps it’s just that I’m used to Piranha Plant). I think it slightly stuck out for me personally because I like NSpec to be the The Move input, but Smash has examples of that not being true, so I guess consider this paragraph a Ramble About Philosophical Differences and not a criticism of the set.

Kirby should get USpec when he copies Hammer Bro tho.

Anyway, the core premise of ‘buddy up and unleash bullet hell’ is a compelling hook for a Hammer Bro set, and I really like that the set uses these temporary transformations as a mechanism for Bro selection without resorting to something like the Monado Wheel; no shade thrown at wheel-enjoyers (sometimes you need a wheel), but I always enjoy when a set that could have done that and finds another way instead. It’s an interesting effect to have on the Sledge Bro too, since a lot of your tools for getting him in the mix are fairly committal (though the fact that Bro-summoning only happens occasionally does mean it’s not a huge detriment).

I think the set would benefit from more of a breakdown on the pros/cons of each Bro as a Friend - you do a good job giving each Bro powerset an identity, but it’s still a bit much to keep track of the nitty-gritty of what the likely self-defense moves are and the good program moves are for each Bro type as you go, and the bigger picture of how different Friends might influence the overall playstyle, while digesting the Hammer Bro’s melee. Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s a strength that the set avoids detouring every attack description through every possible Friend, but I think it’d be nice for each Friend to have a bit more of a mission statement. (I mean Sledge is kinda obvious as Beeg, but y’know, for the rest)

I’d’ve walked away with a better grasp on that, I think, if there wasn’t much more to it than choosing the projectile coverage you wanted from your Friend, but the potential to program moves outside the Specials and the differing self-defense capabilities introduce some wrinkles there.

Really solid set, though. I always like seeing other folks’ spins on these sorts of bit-part barely-characters and your usual technical acumen is fully on display here.

Stray thoughts:
  • Aprio is my favorite Mario character anyway.
  • The input layout actually really puts me in mind of Byleth (funnily enough) who has a similar sort of moveset philosophy where their most thematic weapon is on Up Special and the rest of their Specials kit is borrowed stuff.
    • Already thought that midway through the Specials, but the normals continuing the motif of divvying up inputs between Bro types only reinforces the Bylethiness.
  • “In the official game Super Smash Bros. Ultimate for the Nintendo Switch” - never heard of it.
  • Down Aerial size increase is bold and unhinged (though a bit less-so once it’s established that that’s a set-wide thing on a few moves). Really like the stage-shake effect in this move.
  • “This remains after the move in the same way as the Fire Bro/Boomerang Bro colorations” - don’t think I picked that up in the previous moves, though it’s possible I missed it. Fairly straightforward if it just lasts until you use a different Special though.
    • Ah yes, the next move addresses this.
  • “And if there's one thing Bowser's Army always makes sure, it's that the members are only the brightest!” - job market can be tough, I bet a lot of those mooks have degrees they’re not using.
  • “Taking out TWO Metal Hammers and thus truly evolving his power level” - finally, the transformation into Super Saiyan Super Hammer Hammer Bro.
  • When commanding aerials for Hammer Bros, is that done like jump -> Attack + direction, or maybe just jump + direction?
  • 1.8% is a pretty chunky pummel for Ultimate.
    • Pummel damage percentage nitpicking, the highest form of moveset analysis.
  • The last-second insane grabgame really is a favorite trope of mine, and the gang-up effects are fun.
  • Interesting that this set doesn’t really talk about Hammer Bro’s disadvantage state much - I would have expected the uniqueness of the recovery to come up more on a character drawing mechanical inspiration from Yoshi.
 

Daehypeels

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 10, 2022
Messages
7
Welcome to MYM! Finally got around to one of your sets, Daehypeels. I remember we got a set for FE Anna back in MYM16. In fact, we got a set for Daisy from Fire Emblem too, who has gold and weapon durability gimmicks like Anna does. You might be interested in reading her, as she’s a short set. Unique here is Anna’s weapon quality, where silver attacks deal a ton of damage but both need a lot of gold (deal lots of damage, don’t take much damage) but also break with less hits. 40, 25-20 and 10 hits on each weapon does sound like a bit much - I can’t imagine Anna landing 40 hits on an opponent with a bronze weapon in an entire stock.

It’s funny how we’ve had (at least) 2 sets on the last day of MYM25 with money-hauling mechanics that slow down the user when they have a lot of money.

Hope you don’t mind me saying this, but there are parts in the set where you talk about your thought process on a move, and it doesn’t contribute to understanding the attack - just makes for an unnecessary read. For example, this paragraph on Neutral Special:

“While thinking about this move, I kept flip-flopping between having the bag be interactable with the opponent or not. If the opponent can’t do anything about it, it’s far easier for Anna to play around with it, change her playstyle on the fly much easier (partially rewarding good placement and space management), and removes a bit of weight from the player’s shoulders as it’s one less thing to worry about. But if I made it interactable, there’s then an additional factor of potential fun where it not only slightly screws with certain opponents (forcing someone to move around or attack an obstacle that never despawns normally is fun) but also encouraging a bit of risk/reward thinking on the opponent’s part in certain situations, such as choosing between attempting to gimp Anna or kicking the bag further out of her reach and/or offstage. Both are options I’m fond of, and I fully wrote out the explanation for the latter initially.”

As you’re using Google Docs, I’d suggest using the “Summary” option on the left to add these kinds of author’s notes. Or show them in a different font in the set. Other than that, nothing wrong with throwing out your personal thoughts! It’s interesting to hear about your personal thought process.
“I don’t think this is a super defining move of Anna’s kit, but it’s definitely something for the opponent to watch out for.”


It can sound like you’re not confident on certain parts of your set, like Neutral Special above. But hey, no one said making hypothetical movesets for a fighting game was a breeze! Even some of us who have been doing this for over 10 years have trouble at times.

Heh, Anna’s Jab permanently lowering the opponent’s weight instead of damaging them is funny - we don’t get this kind of thing much in MYM. I get the logic behind it. Attacks are kinda missing damage percents though, and I would like to see the power differences between weapon qualities to really sell, say, how strong a silver weapon can be when you get one. I agree on your Up Tilt statement that sets need “generic” (simple) attacks, but the way a set describes the applications of those moves and their relation to the rest of the moveset can sell it. For instance, generic sword swing upwards on Up Tilt could combo into the moveset’s quick Neutral Air, but the moveset is unsafe against shields: foes will want to go for shield if you’re just throwing out Up Tilts, a behaviour that you could exploit with anti-shield options (Anna’s Down Tilt would be a good example of this).

Up Smash’s arcing arrow attack is fun. We like these projectile-like regular attacks in MYM. Down Smash is uhhh… would prefer for fighters’ non-Special attacks to have hitboxes (no lag or hitbox is described here - for all I know it probably deals no knockback or hitstun but has similar lag to a regular Down Smash, which would get Anna punished even if she connected it). Banning your opponent’s Specials doesn’t feel super fun when you’re banning their recovery: 8-24 seconds is a pretty long time too. We actually got a set this contest that can ban entire attacks in a fighter’s moveset, but movement-based Specials just had their hitbox removed rather than preventing the opponent from using it. That moveset was Herminia by Junahu, if you were interested in checking it out.

It doesn’t seem like weapon quality affects Anna’s staff-using Jab or Down Smash.

Up Air is a funny kind of move, where you go into a lot more detail around its applications than usual. Down Air has the bag weight variety, but the hitbox details behind the attack feel vague. For grab games we’d prefer if their animations and all the throws were described - grab games are serious stuff in MYM! - but I do like how Anna’s Pummel gives her more gold than usual. Side Special is described as an anime-style rush, but it doesn’t seem to describe how Anna attacks her opponent as she rushes them - does she slash them with a sword?

Some fun mechanics here, but a few questionable parts, and the set can get unsure of itself while being vague on some of its attack descriptions. Nonetheless, I’m curious what’s in store for your next sets - especially when Regigigas and v-tan (who is 20k, which is very long for a moveset!) are among them.

Hey, thank you so much for commenting on my blog, I really appreciate getting feedback from here! I’ll run through your list a bit and add some of my own thoughts.



-Good call on the durability, I could definitely bring the durabilities down a peg – especially with Bronze, I set it to 40 to make it REALLY hard for it to break and leave Anna helpless, but you’re right in that it’s way too much for one stock. And that’s before even thinking about my lack of clarification about weapons not sharing the same durability – that’s 40 points of durability per weapon, not just for the whole stock. Whoops. Perhaps something closer to 25 for Bronze, 15 for Iron, and 8 for Silver…

-I’ll keep in mind that not everyone likes the more meta, behind-the-scenes look from the author’s notes. An old habit I picked up from trying to appeal to Amino users was that my author’s notes weren’t just about how a move functions, but could also include my thoughts behind various different layers of it – I thought that might be interesting to read, but if this server doesn’t like that sort of thing mixed in with the rest, your advice of separating them somehow sounds rather interesting. The uncertainty was also part of that attempt to make it feel more casual/discussion-like, but that doesn’t matter if it didn’t work as intended.

-F-Tilt and U-Tilt were my two biggest worries while submitting Anna, since I didn’t know I’d be allowed to make major edits to my submissions. I really appreciate the advice of looking into it as deeply as possible… I definitely need to do better than just “yeah it’s basic, whatever, moving on” (which is a problem in one or two of Stephanie’s moves as well, I’ll get on that). Might steal your suggestion for U-Tilt, thank you.

-On one hand, you’re definitely right about being more specific with hitbox size + the lack of fun/balancing issues with Silence lasting that long (I think I can nerf the duration a bit and nix the harshness of zero recovery options, good call), and I like the suggestion of changing it from their inputs doing absolutely nothing (something a flinch animation replacing it would probably go a long way)… I could do a better job of explaining it, but I did say that D-Smash is identical to Jab in every way other than the effect, meaning the hitbox (while vague, I still sort of described – I’ll update that as well) and more importantly the weak knockback that made it safe on hit were described as far as I was concerned. However, if needed, I can update that further and just make D-Smash describe it better.

-Also yes, back when I first made this I debated about the durability for Jab and D-Smash but went against it to simplify the blog a little, in hindsight that was a bad idea. It won’t be hard to go back and update it with some durability, Hammerne can cover them.

-You’re right in that I need to give U-Throw and Pummel an animation, but… I did cover all of the throws gameplay-wise, and F-/B-/D-Throw all had animations. They could be better and described with more depth, which I can do, but they were there. But if you missed them, unless that was just an error on your part, perhaps that’s a sign I need to describe them better.

-And finally, yeah, that was mostly the idea behind Side Special, just some sort of Quick Draw/Critical Hit-like dash into a sword slash, but I really need to update that. Even back when I made this it was a little bit rushed, since in general I have a terrible habit of rushing a bit by the end of a blog’s creation, but that’s no excuse.



I really appreciate your commentary on Anna though, what you said will help me an incredible amount for the future of what I do in this server, and hopefully make everything a better read as well.

I feel like Regigigas might be the best submission of mine in this contest (not saying all that much though), since they should have significantly less issues than Anna did in the way of descriptions, but they’ll still be missing damage/hitboxes/whatnot until I update them as well, Stephanie being a similar story. I have no idea how /v/-tan will go down, I’m very mixed on him myself and I got some scathing criticism even from the FFC server, but we’ll see how the professionals look at him.
 

UserShadow7989

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
279
Hakumen by n88 n88 and FrozenRoy FrozenRoy **

Between the rush to submit one more set in the contest's final week and other distractions, Hakumen's chunky start wound up throwing off my momentum, I'll admit. The set is frontloaded with multiple mechanics and a bevvy of specials, which makes it a bit of a rough read at first. Those mechanics and specials earn their place, however, seeing mention across the rest of the set's moves which are functional both in their own right and with consideration to those effects, and the set itself spells out the overarching playstyle it's all in service to.

Hakumen turtles up early on, serving as a slowly advancing wall that will suddenly strike out when opponents drop their guard or make a mistake, with his assorted meters and mechanics letting him shift to an abrupt and deadly offensive, akin to an unyielding avalanche. The set reminds me of Alex in some ways; not quite having the same level of technical detail, but sharing the feel of overwhelming power when in his element and a focus on strong impressive hits over flashy tricks and bizarre effects, combined with a Blazblue flair that still makes it feel like something more than just fundamentally solid.

I like the set a lot, but I'm having trouble putting to words the degree and reasons I like it, or even nailing down how I felt overall. The set feels whole, maybe a little overfull with all the added inputs that do indeed carve out their own niches and serve as important parts of the moment to moment exchanges, never pulling out an absolutely showstopping concept but also never dipping below a high level of quality. Hakumen is a good set, one I see aging well and deserving its praise, with the question of how good it is being a matter of taste, I think. You two did a fantastic job, both on this set and the contest in general. Well done!
 
Last edited:

Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,143
Location
The Make Your Move Rooligan Society
I have vaguely heard of the game this character “comes” from, because I saw a video about a mod that let you play as Elaina from the anime Wandering Witch: The Journey of Elaina. But about Calamitias - what a backstory she has!

The two minions you get from Revengeance Mode are downright funky: we have never had minions whose distance from the opponent is relative to yours (I think we haven’t). This, and their positions from the opponent, results in a funny situation where opponents have to get close to Calamitias to reach the minions (unless they have a ton of reach on their attacks).

The minions having a passive hitbox might be a bit strong - maybe opponents should be able to negate it with attacks, or they are immune to it while they are attacking. Just that I could imagine situations where Calamitias suddenly gets close to her opponent, and uses the minion above them to damage them when they jump into it. It foes fit with Calamitias being a really oppressive fighter, though! Iirc, the FFC community considers Calamitias to be really overpowered - it is kind of fun to see a set embrace how strong it is, but not so strong that it’s just stupid.

Side Special is actually a very cool concept, a Pac-Man Side Special esque path that can be customized and stood on as a platform and serves as a wall. Does feel excessive though - I could see situations where Calamitias just casually blocks the opponent’s recovery and they die, even if the worm doesn’t move very fast. Also, how long is the worm, and how many segments does it have on its body?

No wonder Calamitias was considered so powerful by FFC: she has Pikachu’s Quick Attack for her recovery, lol. Even if it’s slower, that KO percent is scary low, assuming it kills grounded opponents at around 90%. Wasn’t expecting various weapons for her non-Special attacks, given how her intro says she’s a powerful magician. Does feel a bit contrary: most of the weapons say they are drops from Calamitias, but I’m not sure exactly how character fitting it would be for her to use these. Feels more like the protagonist/your player character in her game would use them.


Star mechanic is a fun little thing that gets its pay-off at the end of the set. But it’s easy to forget about before that, and the set doesn’t specifically mention how much meter you get from various actions. Being able to cancel the end lag of two of your Specials with good timing is a fun little mechanic too, and it’s not ridiculous when you have to commit to those two moves for a bit before you get the cancel. Wasn’t expecting the Down Special stars to give Geno his own super moves: that you can pop out multiple super moves at the same time to create your own custom super move is really nutty. It does feel vague, and absurdly overpowered if you ever get multiple stars - would probably depend on how long it takes to gather stars, but that is not made clear. Still fun, and a neat enough idea that I’d consider using it myself in the future.


Nice, a set for a Legendary Pokemon! Intrepid Sword is a respectable mechanic, but the knockback multiplier of 1.5x is a bit too high - Super Mushroom multiplies your knockback by 1.6x, and as you might know that makes the knockback on your attacks ridiculously strong. Might be better to reduce the knockback to 1.2x. Don’t worry, it took MYM a long time to realize that knockback multipliers are much more effective than they look.

Curiously, Up Special says that it does deal 1.2x as much damage and knockback under Intrepid Sword. I wonder if this was your intended damage multiplier for the mechanic?

I like that Intrepid Sword doesn’t affect every move in Zacian’s set, so it can use a few of its moves to set up for its stronger attack. For instance, Moonblast being a slow projectile that Zacian can outrun and potentially use to combo into one of its attacks. Iron Head can also be used to pop foes up to start combos - the move feels akin to a Dash Attack that can reflect projectiles, given its low start-up and combo potential. Other than this, I don’t have much else to say about the set.


Rychu had been working on a Monika set, so it’s neat that we got one now. Definitely like the glitchy text flavour-wise. There is a nice amount of thought put into the glitchy visuals for Monika’s super mode where she goes all horror mode. The super mode is pretty powerful, getting a 1.3x damage boost/25% speed boost, being outright immune to projectiles and immune to being KO’ed outside of being knocked clean into the blast zone - the latter buffs are kinda unique, actually. Maybe Monika should be kicked out of her super mode early if she falls off the blast zone but doesn’t get KO’ed for it? Also nice that it charges slower than Cloud’s Limit Break, for how powerful the buffs are - that feels right for Monika starting out harmless in DDLC, but once the horror themes kick in she becomes an extreme threat.

We don't have many moves in MYM that prevents opponents from grabbing the ledges, but I like that it doesn’t occur until 80%, preventing you from getting cheap kills early. 10 seconds might be too long for the effect though - maybe reduce it to 3-4 seconds, so you have to knock the foe away quickly after hitting them with the projectile. Maybe don’t prevent foes from grabbing the ledge if you hit them with the projectile in the air, because otherwise it’s too good of a gimping tool when you can use the slow projectile to edgeguard. I think a lot of people in MYM will call out on the move’s ledge-banning properties.

(Down Special-wise, Monika doesn’t really need a way to deal with projectiles in My Reality when she automatically deletes them on hit. Being able to reflect them is still nice, though. Maybe the move could do something else?)

Beyond the Specials, the regular attacks do have a little extra playstyle and combo applications than I was expecting, which is nice!

Overall, this set has some good effort put into its attacks, visuals and playstyle segments, but Side Special’s ledge-banning does bring it down for me a bit.


It’s pretty nuts that we got 2 Regigigas sets this contest, especially when we never got a set for it before! Here, Slow Start is tuned to really live up to its name, taking an entire 2 minutes for Regigigas to get going. I feel like this was designed to be balanced around longer matches - maybe its timer varies based on how long the match is, or how many stocks Regigigas has. Spending 20 seconds in Slow Start with one stock feels about reasonable. I do like how you emphasize how troublesome Slow Start is to Regigigas, as well as how its size, weight and fall speed work against it.

Details like damage, KO percents and frame data are missing like in Anna, but I won’t dwell on that - I am trying not to repeat criticisms in multiple comments for sets the same author.
I brought that up because I actually like Forward Tilt - being a powerful shieldbreaker that gets a second hit for mix-ups and shield destruction when Slow Start has worn off, but not knowing its damage and frame data and the general vagueness means it is not sold as well as it could be. Regigigas’s base as a big, heavy character appeals to me more than Anna, honestly.
In fact, Regigigas’s regular attacks are pretty interesting! Funny Down Tilt command grab and Up Tilt rock smash. I understand that you didn’t want generic punches and stomps and claps, but MYM has nothing against them - do what you think is natural for Regigigas to do.
I like that Down Smash has less end lag when Slow Start has worn off. The write-up about punishing rolls and covering lots of ground is decent enough to sell its applications.

Dash Attack is what I like to see! A cancel that talks about the implications of each move you can cancel into, like how Forward Tilt scares foes into not shielding, while moves like Up Smash and Down Smash cover jumps and rolls respectively. We quite enjoy this stuff in MYM.
I like N-air for being a quick, big combo breaker that can kill and forces opponents to respect Regigigas, but has hell to pay if you miss with it. Lack of damage and kill percents (where they exist in certain parts of the set) doesn’t sell it as much, though.
U-air is a silly fun move - I like U-airs that hit above you, but also propel you downwards and have a hitbox below you. Your tendency to make big stupid moves (a good kind of stupid) is paying off a bit.
I like that D-air is basically a free landing ticket with Slow Start worn off (super armour when falling) if opponents don’t hit you.

I understand that Crush Grip is difficult to implement faithfully while still being an interesting move - but it doesn’t feel like it has much of a pay-off. Only 44% at most for landing it on a foe at 0% while you don’t have Slow Start, and this is a slow command grab. It’s also downright disadvantageous to land at higher percents. Maybe the more damage it deals, the higher its knockback is, but it always deals more hitstun - and at around 100%, it deals low enough hitstun to keep opponents close and kill confirm them?
Hyper Beam is nice - something you can destroy opponents with from a distance, but you’re in big trouble if they get around it. Fun that it gets faster without Slow Start, but is very hard to use and absurdly punishable if you do have it.
Down Special doesn’t do too much for MYM standards, but I can respect but it works with Regigias’s playstyle.

Overall, Regigigas is a promising fun heavyweight set, which could be stronger with some added damage details and tweaking the Slow Start mechanic. Nice work here!
 
Last edited:

BrazilianGuy

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 10, 2022
Messages
9
Heavy is one of my favorites in TF2, only behind Engineer as far as playtime goes so I was interested in this one. I would overall say you did a good job translating him into Smash, he sounds like he completely dominates when he has his advantage but could struggle a lot. I liked how you used the G.R.U. as a side special and the moves that burry are a great help for him to not only kill but get a ton of damage. At first I thought Down Special was a lil bit too much or too little but I kinda of ended up liking how you did the Sandvich. I will say it's weird that the Killing Gloves of Boxing are worse at killing then Heavy taunting but those are just details that come with ballancing. Also just a question, does Back Throw consume any of his ammo since it uses his gun? But overall a nice read that portrayed the character well, Bologna/10


I was impressed with how you adapted some Pokémon attacks into his Smash kit, Flash Cannon specially was real cool and gives some good sinergy to his kit due to the Flashed status. Also thank you for not making him a turtle style character by not making his projectiles opressive and making him want to approach be it by his awesomely and quite originally implemented Puddle Mechanic or simply due to how much power his moves have. Up special with puddle sounds awesome, just having a giant turtle approaching you and reflecting anything that comes his way. I kinda wish there were some more images and Down-Throw is a bit weird but overall it was fun to read through. Flashed/10


I'm going through a lotta Pokémon movesets, I like Pokémon, such a silly franchise. But onto Alolan Marowak, I really liked how you made it a shorter but heavy character, and it was real cool seeing all you could make for it. It's semi-puppet status is really interesting and unique, something that I don't think any other character could really pull off. Also as a Jr. player in Smash I love making my enemy have to deal with multiple possible threats and Will-O-Wisp, the Bone and Marowak itself being a threat at the same time is really nice. Up Special was a bit simple but it's alright, it's other moves are real nice, you did very well with giving it the max it could get. Bone/10
 

Arctic Tern

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 12, 2022
Messages
57
GODDESS ILIAS (OldManHan)

I am not brave enough to look up Monster Girl Quest, but I do know that it has way more in-depth characters and plots than most works of its… er, genre. You do a pretty good job at summarizing Ilias for the many who aren’t willing to play the game, and the playstyle is fitting and MYM-esque; a full on boss set with an insane amount of power at the expense of horrible disadvantage. The set’s neutral tools are honestly pretty intriguing, most specifically DTilt and it’s stagewide range. DSpec also has a pretty dope concept, with time locked minions, and a lot of interesting ideas are sprinkled throughout, such as spreading holy ground that USmash interacts with and the Dash Attack hitgrab.

The main critique I have with the set is that it’s a bit too lopsided. I get that was the point, but it does seem like Ilias only has one good disadvantage tool in her BAir, and even then I’m not sure how good of one it is. Comparing this to a set with a similar base, MYM 23 Primordial Darkness, that set had a decently quick NAir and a very fast Jab, coupled with a good amount of stage control and moves that filled multiple purposes. Ilias, on the other hand, only really has BAir, and as the set itself describes “everything kills”. Playing as her just seems a lot more restrictive than PD. I also don’t really know how I feel about the Jab insta-kill, like the concept, but I feel the input is very weird.

I did still overall come out with a positive impression of Ilias, however! It’s just that I feel the idea of what you’re going for has been done better in other contests.

FELICIA (ComicWaterz)

Felicia, like the previous set, also has time delayed assists as part of the gameplan, although in her case they’re much more important; they change up the way her non-Special moves work, based on a mechanic in her home game. There are a decent number of cool ideas at play here, most notably the DSpec table tray; not only does it summon said assistants, but she can push it around to use as a weapon or ride on it to use her attacks while moving. I also quite like the characterization, with Felicia’s assistants often reacting to her attacks and her Jab being her attempting to fix a mistake she made (though you should probably keep in mind that accidental attacks are generally frowned upon in MYM). The rest of the set is competent enough, with a clear focus on comboing but a good amount of moves that aren’t combo tools; I also have to commend the effort it takes to write four variants of every move.

With that said, I have to echo what Kat said and say that there isn’t a lot of flow. More particularly, I don’t really think most of the assistants are worth the 20 seconds it spends to summon one. Their attacks have normal kill percentages, and there aren’t any desync shenanigans for crazy setups, so most of the time I see players only really choosing Peri, who makes three of Felicia’s throws kill at the 90% range. I also don’t see why Peri and Hana are here instead of anyone else; Flora is obvious, but the others seem very unrelated to Felicia (though I very much lack Fire Emblem knowledge so maybe they are?). Personally, if I was to use this same mechanic I’d either stick to just Flora or use a time based mechanic where having tea out for longer gets a stronger assistant.

Still, it’s not every day you see a first set that includes four variants of most every attack! For that alone, I have to give you props for an admirable debut.

See more comments and ratings on my personal page!
 

Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,143
Location
The Make Your Move Rooligan Society
Ah, good old Wesker. We got a set for this guy in MYM15, which was very popular and still remains memorable to me. That set involved firing bullets and teleporting to their location (both sets use the Samurai Edge gun, interestingly). Here Wesker is given the option to perform a short-ranged teleport after some of his attacks, which reminds me a lot of Tern’s excellent Remilia set this contest.

Best not to give projectiles little-to-no end lag, especially fast ones like Neutral Special. Instead, you can make it so the bullet deals enough hitstun so Wesker can get that close-ranged Jab/grab on hit anyway.
I feel like there is mix-up potential in Side Special, given it can be a grab or a melee hitbox. That alone would make it effective against shields - I imagine the move would have some decent lag to it to balance this.

Being able to use your Side Special and Up Special more quickly after your counter is triggered is a neat idea. So you Side Special after countering an enemy projectile to close in on them quickly, or you can just do the teleport forward and leave it at that. Mix-up potential in how you can work around foes counterplaying this would make this neat: for instance, quick Side Special grab beats out shielding, but it loses to jumps or dodges as Wesker presumably suffers high end lag out of his Side Special, to compensate for its mix-up properties. But if the foe jumps or dodges in response to Wesker’s Side Special, he can just not use it and use a different move to smack them!

End of Up Special teleport having a hitbox to setup opponents for a combo is kinda fun.
I’m guessing that teleporting between Jabs is mainly used to rack up more damage with the move, since teleporting in the middle of it resets your Jab string. The idea of teleporting not resetting your Jab string would be interesting. This could be really cool on a move like Marth’s Dancing Blade, where you can make different inputs to get different outcomes on the attack.
Up Smash is a funny way to carry over Wesker’s big finishing move from MVC3.
Ah, the sunglasses throw on Up Taunt. Funny enough, I believe this was Wesker’s Forward Tilt in Smash Daddy’s MYM15 set for him. I still remember the name he gave that move: Deal With It.
Was expecting him to do the “Complete. Global Saturation,” line in one of his victory animations, lol.

A nice and simple set with potent ideas in its teleport and Down Special counter.


We’ve had hundreds of Pokesets over MYM’s history, but sets for the trainers themselves are far and few. So I love it when people actually make sets for them: it’s kind of a WTF thing. If we get a That Guyy story mode that involves every moveset you’ve made, will Raihan end up catching Zacian? I mean, they do come from the same region.

I was curious how you’d handle Raihan - wondering if he would fight himself, because yes I have made 2 sets for Pokemon trainers (albeit one from a fangame) who fight themselves rather than use Pokemon. Instead, he uses Duraldon, but this isn’t just a regular moveset for Duraldon: flashy attack animations, support from other Pokemon to represent double battles and weather effects let readers know that this is Raihan’s moveset! I am pleased with the amount of thought you put into this.

I like the weather concept too! Very cool to see a Pokeset handle multiple weather effects in one: that it’s tied to a mechanic and triggers via RNG on certain moves is unique too, rather than be activated manually with a Special move. Reducing the foe’s attack speed by 30% with rain might seem strong, but it only affects those close to you, and being triggered by chance with a slow input - and being removed if you throw out another weather effect - helps to balance it. Plus Duraldon is stated to have slow attacks. Does the slowness only affect the opponent’s lag, or the entirety of their attack? (like being time slowed, aka Witch Time) Because the latter would give their attacks longer active frames.

Side Special activating on frame 4 might be a bit early, especially when you can hit does from its stun effect before they’re launched, though you do have to wait for Torkoal to finish attacking before you can use it again. I do like being able to knock foes into Torkoal to stun them, though.
Given Torkoal activates Drought in Up Smash and also appears on Side Special, shouldn’t the latter also be able to trigger Drought?
I am personally enjoying the trivia on this set, like what’s on Down Special and Up Special. Geez, Duraldon is crazy light.
I’m glad that both Duraldon and Raihan get attention in their taunts and victory animations.

In addition to a base concept that’s arguably a bit more interesting for me, Raihan is the most I’ve enjoyed a moveset you’ve made alongside Rugal, thanks to the nice emphasis on characterization and making sure that the trainer gets as much attention as the Pokemon.


I heard that this was a joke set based on a hypothetical situation where your friend got turned into a cartoon penguin.
The set is played pretty straight for a joke set! The moves and stats (minus being intentionally overtuned) could pass for a real set.
Lots of penguin stuff, but some props on Down Special, F-tilt, Smashes and grab to show human stuff.
The fact that Bipples is essentially an original character means that he has no “source material” for the audience to look up on. What Bipples does in his set comes across as having no context for it, which made it difficult for me to connect with - OC sets require the author to give information and fill in gaps to make the audience care about the character. I also don’t know who any of the Spirit characters are. Sorry if I’m being harsh on what is supposed to be a fun joke set.
You might be interested in reading Dark Blupi or Shiny Hoppip, other joke sets that go full ham.


This set knows what it wants: a brutal heavyweight who prefers the ground and wants opponents grounded. I can respect that.
Execution is a fine enough mechanic that pays homage to Apol’s franchise, but being able to perform it with your Jab and still kill at the same percent as your other harder-to-hit moves (like U-Smash) does feel like… there’s no reason to use those laggier moves once your opponent is at 120% (aside from coverage/situational purposes, like you being airborne or your opponent is above you for something like U-Smash). You can even cnacel other moves into Jab!
A parry that stuns melee attackers is a neat enough take on Smash Ultimate’s parry mechanic.
I like that this move utilizes walls to stay true to its source material, with moves like Neutral Special and Side Special. While it wouldn’t make sense for Apollyon to make her own walls, you could use the side of stages like Battlefield and Final Destination to slam your opponent into. Nephenee actually did that this contest.
I like Down Special as a delayed pressure tool, and something to bring opponents down to the ground where you want them.
A Shield Special that bans your Specials after a while as a trade-off is an interesting concept. Not sure if losing your Specials is a worthy trade-off to getting lifesteal - but it does present the neat situation where you’ll want to have healed enough to be able to survive without your recovery when you can’t use your Specials.
Jab mentions being based on what stance Apollyon is in, but we’re not given information on stances. I assume that stances were a scrapped idea in the set?


Not a character I was expecting you to do next, but this isn’t a Pokemon we’ve gotten a set for, either! Nice to see Gen 8 getting some love this contest. Won’t go into too much detail, but like Bender, there is a lack of hitbox details like lag, knockback and KO percents all across the board. It’s okay if you don’t want to include them though. It’s also interesting that you went with the cooldown route on the Specials, like you did with Bender. I’m fine with that being a trend.

Neutral Special is one particular move that could benefit from details like lag, hitstun, and how far and fast the projectile travels. The move says it deals 12%, but doesn’t mention whether it deals any knockback. For all I know, the move could deal enough hitstun to start combos, or be a zoning projectile that can eventually KO! The move’s cooldown would justify either.
Speaking of cooldown, it would be neat to give specific cooldown times if you can - even if you’re not confident on your balance, there are plenty of us here to help you if you’re willing to give it a go.
I’m assuming that Sweet Scent is a trap.
Up Special being a projectile rather than a recovery makes Alcremie a very projectile-oriented glass cannon - we don’t know how far she jumps or whether she has a great midair jump like Yoshi.
Down Special following Alcremie around for a few seconds, reflecting projectiles, acting as a shield and having a hitbox (does it deal knockback or hitstun?) is very powerful. Lack of details make it difficult to discern how strong, though.

Sorry if this is being a bit harsh. Once again, don’t be afraid to drop by our Discord or respond to our comments on your sets! We’d love to hear from you, find out what it is you want to achieve in MYM.



Remember how you made a joke set for Matryoshka Dolls at the end of last contest? Well, it’s funny that your last set this contest turned out to be a villain who makes use of Matryoshka Dolls in his set. It all comes full circle! I love that you were motivated to work on this set for story mode purposes, and the touch of Joey making mention of Jodie in his opening dialogue (despite the fact that both characters come from different fanworks) - Jodie being your first set this contest, Joey being your last.

I don’t need to tell you that Joey is very reminiscent of Hina, able to summon dolls that follow him from a set distance and can mimic his attacks to a degree. You mentioned something like that in the chat, which made me curious how strong of a set Joey would be when his wordcount is shorter than Hina, Pegasus or Jodie’s. Wordcount doesn’t always equal set quality, but still.

It’s particularly fun that the Lv1 doll’s ram attack can tie in with the stronger dolls’ synched-up attacks: it reminds me of Bubby’s Tainted Forgotten set where you have 2 entities that respond to your inputs, but one of them uses only one or a few attacks that can be performed with multiple inputs. That could be a really cool and fresh focus on these types of Nana-esque sets if you were gunning for more of them in the future.

Side Special is very fun, as a way to mix up what attacks your dolls use by giving them firearms! I love it when tag-team sets do this: Saul even did a bit of this too. The grenade option is really fun: pop your opponent up into the air with your doll, make the doll blow up instead of you, but the opponent can knock the grenade-holding doll towards you. The bazooka input is smartly-implemented to give Joey attack leeway with his dolls while either of them are holding the weapon. Side Special helps to make Joey feel fresh among your patented hitbox-duplicating sets.

The other two Specials are simple by comparison, but work. I’m guessing that the Up Specials smoke bomb is 4 units wide, intended so you can hide your dolls in the smoke - I do think you should shrink the blast hitbox and make it close-ranged, especially when the move is stated to be fast. The tricks you can perform with the recovery are pretty fun, though.

Ahh, Forward Smash is channeling the Hol Horse with that reticule, which is very fitting for obvious reasons. The Smashes are simple enough moves that state their usefulness with Murderdolls without going on for too long. Jab has the smack > projectile combo that I believe Mad Dog used, and F-tilt is a simple but fun move that outlines a Joey weakness in neutral while displaying a benefit of having multiple dolls lined up. Dash Attack is a fun little de-syncing tool with your dolls, where similar to Haukmen your burst movement is based on your dashing speed when you performed it. It is interesting that F-air and B-air both have stronger late hits that don’t combo from the earlier ones, and D-air’s stall then fall of course has neat de-syncing potential with your dolls. Forward Throw works neatly with your dolls, especially if they’re holding weapons to potentially lock foes for the explosion or get a 50/50 with the rocket launcher. Back Throw for its tech options and making use of the dolls’ turnaround mechanics.


While Joey has quite the fun base with his first 2 Specials, makes good use of his dolls with his relevant regular attacks and has a well-defined set of weaknesses to balance out his strengths, he is more tame than your bigger sets that had cool and creative moves across the board. Nonetheless, it’s a strong addition to your loaded contest, which I feel was just as successful as MYM24. I really appreciate and commend that you’ve been keeping up with reading and commenting sets throughout the contest, too - it makes a huge difference. Thank you for all your hard work!
 
Last edited:

BrazilianGuy

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 10, 2022
Messages
9
I was gonna send death threats until I got to F-Smash and saw Slugger moves, I believe in Slugger supremacy, but his duo with Green Glove is awesome! I really liked your take on a double character, and as someone who tried to play Icies but couldn't get into them having Green Glove respawn after some seconds is a good addition, and is not like that makes them easier to play, they honestly sound like quite a technical character. My favorite part of the set was the watermelon D-Special, not only did the writing with the Mespotamian bit caught me off guard, plus it was genuinely a really unique and good move that pays homage to their home series. The ammount of wild things they could pull off with their reflects and projectiles is nutty, I loved that. Overall a very solid and well done set! Mets/10

This is a simple set, not many of the moves have much of a description, but that's fine. I really enjoyed F-Smash, it sounds like a silly lil move as well as being decently strong. Barrier could be kinda gross, similar to Steve's block, and I really like that, doing dumb things is fun and fits this scrunklo. But yeah overall this captures Mr. Rime's vibes quite well but it could still use more description in it's moves. LoveableScrunklo/10
 

ForwardArrow

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 17, 2011
Messages
477
Saul Goodman
Okay, so let me get something out of the way up front. I think Saul Goodman is a good set, I enjoyed reading it, and I think the immense effort that went into this set is highly respectable. I'll have more detailed positive things to say about it at the end of the comment, but I want to get that out of the way at the start, because I'm going to be pretty negative here, and its not because Saul's by any means a failure. Its not, I just don't think its frontrunner quality.

So with that out of the way, let's get to my biggest issue with the set, and one I'm not sure we'll really be able to find common ground on or is entirely fair. I don't really tend to like to grill sets for being "too complicated" because I like to make complex stuff myself and I love reading it, I think deep interaction webs and complex mechanics that would take months and sometimes even years for players to really get the full nuances of are rad. There's something great about a character that rewards a hefty learning curve, my favorite sets this contest basically all do that. So when I say Saul runs into complexity problems, I mean something a bit different. Saul's issue, I think, comes down the pace of Smash Ultimate and just how many diverging decisions the set asks you to make in that context.

So let's break down Saul's mechanics to show what I mean. Saul is trying to land charges on the opponent, of which he can have up to 3 stored at a time. In order to get charges on the opponent, he has to specifically be recording them, and he has limited recording time. Many of Saul's moves apply charges when you land them on the foe, build up a stronger charge on the opponent over time, and there are certain conditions under which Saul's opponents can get a charge that are triggered by the vast array of constructs in Saul's set from items to cars to billboards to the VAST array of contacts. If you have more than 3 charges on the foe, the oldest one gets overwritten, which can just casually come up when you're trying to get the foe out of your face with moves that put fairly cheap public indecency charges on the foe. You can turn the camera off, but that's probably not a viable option while the foe is in your face. Saul has NINE contacts each with their own decision trees on how to use them to get back the money you spent on them and then some, or get a payout in terms of hurting the opponent(the Premium Contracts are basically all payout). He can make cars and billboards and potentially get money out of foes damaging them or in the case of billboards, just leaving them out on stage, and both of these are tied heavily to him even having a recovery in the first place. The recovery is thankfully cheap, though. Also if Saul gets nerfs on the opponent depending on the most expensive charge of his selection, making the process of putting charges on the foe even more insanely complex than it already is, all of which are highly potent with different reasons to go for each. On top of all this, if Saul's carrying around a large amount of money, he loses vital movement stats and eventually starts having an incredibly powerful cartel start blasting him from offstage in a way that pretty much just marks him for death if he's not at obscene advantage state over the opponent, considering the movement debuffs are also there. The payoffs if you put up with the cartel are completely bonkers powerful and I get the impression you're not expected to use them in a regular match, but I think just having to worry about "too much money makes you slow and potentially will start killing you" is a LOT.

And this is... a lot, to worry about in any given moment. Especially because there's so many forking decisions to get the max payout based on the foe's actions with any individual one of these, with how complex the charge system gets when Saul has like 20+ different charges he can fish for and how each contact aside from arguably the premium ones is built with lots of versatility in mind. This is just... not stuff Saul will have time to think about when fighting for his life with his aggressively mediocre melee game filled with blindspots, there is NO way he can pull the kind of headgames and make sudden optimizations when he's got to juggle where his camera is and what contact he has and how much money he has and if he's going to lose an important charge all of a sudden. And frankly, its a lot for foes to keep track of too, worrying about Saul's like, 15 different constructs he can throw around and how any one of them could get the foe sued for interacting with them in a variety of specific, annoying ways, and the debilitating status effects and pseudo-Final Smashes that can pop out if they screw up. I recognize MYM sets can often give players more things to think about than any Smash character at any given time, but usually its like, 2-3 and MAYBE 4 important things to focus on. Saul has like 8-10 at a time, and the nature of the money mechanic and his weak melee makes them more likely to just explode on him all at once, never mind whatever mechanics the opponent has to worry about. Honestly just imagine what's going through Shulk's brain trying to figure out what Monado art to react to all this with, and what's going through Saul's brain when he's adjusting to Shulk's stats on the fly along with all this nonsense.

So like... how do you solve this? I'm going to be honest I don't really know. Kupa's said he wanted Saul's playstyle to be about basically fighting to keep your head above water, true to his character in the show in a pretty cool way, and I'm not sure if the ideas I have for that will remove that aspect of the set. But I think the best thing to do here would be to simplify the money/charge system in a way that it can be used a bit more brainlessly, and I know that's painful because the strategic elements are cool, but like. There's already so many ways to make with how charges are obtained. I think what I'd want to at least alleviate the problem a bit is a way to lock in a charge you really want to keep to make it easier to select what debuff you're going for and not worry about random melee moves taking off charges you want to hold onto from the opponent. I don't... know a good input for this, but its a piece of quality of life I find myself wishing the set had. I also think the movement nerf and cartel mechanics just seem straight up aggravating to worry about, and I'd rather just set an even higher price tag on Mike and the Town or nerf them than have to worry about passively getting nerfed because I used my mechanic too well. This... probably wouldn't even be enough to get the set to frontrunner status for me then, but it'd raise it a few spots on my votelist and in a contest this viciously competitive it'd help a lot.

I guess to address some other complaints that didn't bother me as much but I figure I'll get out of the way: the animations here really feel less natural than they did in Walter White. Saul's using stuff like smoothies and toilets and giant inflatables to attack opponents when Walter White was using chemicals that actually seemed like they'd be effective and dangerous. It leaves the set feeling really cartoonish and chaotic in a way that, like. I know Saul's a goofy character, but its maybe a bit too much for a Breaking Bad/Better Call Saul set? I also found the moves post-Specials didn't have the kind of punch you'd expect from a base like that. I guess when I complained about complexity so much that's maybe not fair to ask for MORE of it in later inputs, but I dunno, I guess I was hoping for stuff that would contextualize all these constructs in slightly more exciting ways than the set ended up doing. A "smash this button for a big reward if you have setup" style Smash would probably feel quite fun to have here, IMO, and maybe let Saul have something he could rely on as a consistent endpoint in his melee amidst all the chaos. I dunno.

So, I spent a long time griping with the set, but if it helps, I do have quite a bit of positive to say, I just needed to get that out of the way. When I get past the sheer number of them to worry about at once, I do like Saul's catch-22's with "hurting my minion helps me" and how you can really force the opponent to try to decide between the better of two bad decisions in a split second. Like, when I get past how many of them there are to make at once, the decisions this set puts both Saul and the foe through are really cool and nuanced as he tries to make each construct pay him back what he spent on it. The set does a good job of making every input serve an interesting playstyle function, I don't ever feel like moves here are ever redundant or dull. And I have to admit the contacts are a really fascinating selection, each with their own bits of solid characterization that made them a blast to readthrough and with all 9 of them having cool strategies, from the lowly Skater Twins to the incredibly overpowered but not quite a true delete button Mike. I particularly enjoyed the Business Contacts, Lenny is my favorite part of the entire set for the sheer hilarity he provides and also just how fun it is to use him to frame the foe for his crimes while he can also fill so many holes in Saul's melee game. Not that the other 2 business contacts are slacking, they're all a blast.

And I think the best part of the whole thing is the characterization. The set really is the full package in that regard. Saul's gotten into something too big and difficult for him, juggling his way through it frantically by offloading parts of the job onto others, and comically weaving his way out of dangerous and violent situations with a mix of smooth talking and just pure bullcrap. In some ways, I think the amount the set puts on the player to worry about at once and how Saul will inevitably fail to juggle it all feels very in-line with his character, even if maybe its too much at the detriment of the player and taken to too great an extreme as of now. The set's got an incredible depth of references to the show, pulling all kinds of characters and moments from throughout Saul's history to construct a hyper-complex, ambitious moveset for a lawyer with no fighting ability. Not to mention the comedy is on point, loads of goofy references to Smash, MYM, and other tangentially related snarky bits that aren't just fun in how they're interwoven into the set, they feel true to Saul's character too. The fact I haven't watched Breaking Bad or Better Call Saul probably has made it harder for me to enjoy the set than some others in that regard, the amount of love and respect for this character on display here is downright incredible. Bravo Kupa, and Bravo Rychu.

I'll be honest, if you don't feel like this set should have any changes based off what I've said, I want to clarify, that is fine. It clearly has other fans and both of the set's creators have other highly competitive sets(Elder Princess Shroob, Cranky Kong, and Whitebeard), so its not like not appeasing me on Saul Goodman is going to prevent either of you from having a great contest. And I know that I've picked at a point that, if our respective Jodie comments are anything to go by, might be philosophically out of alignment with what Kupa believes in from a setmaking perspective. But I can't say this set's a favorite of mine this contest, because I feel the amount of frustration stemming from a pace of decision-making that isn't in line with Smash Ultimate's speed ultimately hurts the set. And that's a shame, but please don't feel I'm not incredibly impressed by what you two have made here. I am, and regardless of where it ends up on my vote list in a ferociously competitive contest, you two have created something remarkable.
 
Last edited:

Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,143
Location
The Make Your Move Rooligan Society
I’ve heard things about this set - between this and your Jamcon sets, I’m glad that you’re willing to embrace nuttiness in modern MYM. Especially this kind of nuttiness, which feels like something you’d see in MYM11. This is obviously not meant to be a competitive set, so I’ll just throw out some thoughts:

The passive fire hitbox is pretty well-balanced: even though you can switch which direction it rotates, its knockback is counterproductive to edgeguarding, and foes can punch through the fire hitbox with attacks.
The control scheme behind expanding and compressing your fireballs would be a really fun idea on a stance-based set. That’s the fun thing about this little set: it might just inspire something amazing.
Neutral Special extending your firebar in exchange for making it rotate slower is neat.
Side Special is not only a funny way to move around, but balanced as a ledgeguarding tool since the solid, stronger fireballs can’t pass through the ledge. It’s fascinating to imagine Firebar pole-vaulting its way across the stage.
The idea of creating “ghost” hitboxes that activate after a set time (when you exit hitstun) would be very cool to explore in a moveset. This gets fun on the Standard inputs.
Down Air is surprisingly fun with Side Special.
The way grab is implemented, and the ability to take grabbed opponents into the stage is downright funky. Does feel more like something a ghost character would do - but then, you do love your Ghost-type Pokemon, and you should have plenty of Marvel characters who could phase through walls. Also, this set practically invents new types of throws control scheme-wise.
F-Smash is actually very fun, because its starting lag depends which direction the firebar was pointing at when you used it.

All and all, surprisingly very well-balanced and in-depth for what you have to work with. I admire that you were willing to go for something so… “un-smash”: it makes for a very, very memorable reading experience among modern MYM’s orthodox set approaches.


This is the one character of yours that I have no familiarity with (not entirely sure what “ToT” stands for). I assume that the way sets are presented in FFC means that intros are less warranted, but here in MYM you generally want to introduce your character. The first thing that tells me something about Stephanie’s character in her set is her gimmick, which makes me think that she’s a singer.
Stephanie’s visual changes from a higher meter are well-documented. Makes it easy for players to keep an eye on. Specific meter gain is noted, too.
Bold of you to throw out a Jab that just makes you move back and has no hitbox. I respect what you’re trying to do here, but you’d generally put an input like this on a Special. Players can actually accomplish the same thing that Stephanie does with her Jab by dashing backwards, which is a thing in competitive Smash.
I enjoy that you’re throwing out Smash terms here! Pancaking, Pivot-cancelling.
Don’t know much about Stephanie’s character other than the screenshot from her game above D-tilt, but she seems to be awfully violent for a singer… drop-kicking people, punching them harshly.

I like F-Smash! The little pose to gain hype is icing on the cake: adds some much-needed characterization to the set, and contributes to her mechanic in a fun way.
3 seconds of stun from a fully-charged D-Smash is excessive - that would give you enough time to fully charge another D-Smash and infinite the foe! Sure, the move has 30 frames of starting lag, but still. I would reduce the hitstun significantly, and hard-code the move to just send the foe flying away if you hit them again with D-Smash while they’re stunned. I do like the attack’s animation, though.
D-air getting you massive respect when you hit with it, and draining the foe of their respect when they die from it, is funny.

Neutral Special reminds me of Mr. Game and Watch’s Judge, but tied to her mechanic rather than RNG. I like the characterization on this move; both that Stephanie is getting her performance judged by a crowd, and her look of horror if the crowd boos because you used the move when you had a 0. I respect that the move has cooldown for balance and flavour, but one minute - at the start of the match and after using Neutral Special might be a bit much - maybe 15-20 seconds instead?
I wonder if Stephanie should have a consistent recovery that’s not affected by her meter? Then again, meter-dependent recovery is consistent with your feast-or-famine vision for this character. You’re also self-aware of how polarizing the move is, and how having a great recovery lets you go deeper to attack opponents.
Down Special has awfully long cooldowns like Neutral Special, but I appreciate the flavour of the move (no pun intended), and like that you get a stronger food item once you’ve gone through your initial 3 options.


Here comes the big boy set! Easily the longest FFC entry we’ve gotten so far; 20k sets make for a nice, 2 hour long read. I’m assuming this person is an angry gamer. His playstyle and strengths + weaknesses check nicely for his angry man characterization, too.

V’s mechanic is fun: gives the player the choice to become evil, which is interesting both gameplay-wise and from a character view-point. The size increase works nicely with V’s small body making his attacks hard to hit with in his base form. The increased size, end lag and passive damage you suffer work nice as ways to balance the crown’s upsides.

Already seeing a pattern of you putting grabs on 1 Standard input, going by Jab.
I do like F-tilt’s mix-up on block, where you can drop the combo if you think your opponent is going to parry.
F-Smash embodies V’s strengths and weaknesses as a fighter pretty well.
U-Smash is actually genuinely fun - has the same animation as U-tilt, allowing for mix-ups! This works well with U-tilt’s cancel effects. Nice that the move goes into details, like how you lose the mix-up if you perform U-Smash from out-of-shield, since you can’t use U-tilts from out-of-shield.
Dash Attack has similar energy to Steph’s Jab - mobility option with no hitbox. Not really sold on the latter, or not having a traditional Dash Attack when you can just react to enemy projectiles in the same way as other fighters.
I like how F-air goes into detail about its anti-gravity forward nature, like how it makes the move unsafe if whiffed - compared to if you just fell normally and could suffer landing lag for mix-ups.
I like Cancer B-air stated to be big plus on block if the opponent doesn’t get pushed back from their shield. U-air being a stall-then-fall, that’s nice and I can understand the logic behind that from the move’s animation.

Neutral Special is a respectable enough projectile that prevents V from camping given its state-up, but hits hard when it does hit.
Side Special is nice with all of its options - but it does make his Dash Attack and F-Smash feel redundant when the big thing going for them is that they are all designed to get around projectiles.
Oh, ground Up Special is introducing an anger mechanic. I respect the dedication to out-of-shield mix-ups with Up Smash, that’s not something a lot of MYM sets do. Not entirely sure if V should be losing just to get access to the best version. I do like his cancerous grounded Up Special though.
Down Special is a cool move for its multiple throw options. Funny enough, laggy super armoured command grab is something that Sleaze did this contest, and so did I on a set. I like it. (Thank you Han!)
You can actually do a lot of cool stuff from burying opponents in Smash - do you know about knockback storage? Just pointing it out because you go into a lot of little details with a number of V’s moves.

More than Regigigas, this is my favourite set of yours so far, for having some neat melee and self-awareness of the angry man’s playstyle. A questionable Dash Attack, glossed-over throws and the set being uncertain about itself at times does mean that I can’t rate it too highly among MYM25’s submissions, but it’s pretty good when you were working towards a deadline!


Another crazy character choice to rival the shoe! I approve.

Neutral Special based off of Pong, it makes sense that it can bounce off the screen like it can. I like it. Is there a limit to how many of these projectiles you can have out?
Based on the type of game Up Special is based on, I imagined that the ship would shoot its projectiles in the direction it was traveling. This would feel more balanced than firing randomly in all directions, and would make the move more fun for both players.
Down Special is a bizarre move! You use math to randomly increase the damage your next move deals, but you can run out of numbers during your stock.
The moves here are quite simple, not going into as much detail on their applications or playstyle uses (or how other moves work together) as other FFC entries.
But F-Smash is a genuinely fun concept! Slow projectile that moves forward, but you can shield B to place a mushroom on the stage to make the projectile move backwards. The writing on this is kinda fun too. Other two Smashes are exceedingly short, so this set has a weird thing where it has unexpectedly longer and interesting moves.
 

WeirdChillFever

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 10, 2014
Messages
6,412
Location
Somewhere Out There
Soaring, Flying (Medli and Makar by BridgesWithTurtles BridgesWithTurtles )
First of all, nice to see you in MYM! I know you’ve been in MYM for a long time and we crossed paths in the years between and that you’ve been back for a good while now, but since this is the first set of yours I’m commenting I wanted to acknowledge that.
So obviously, the presentation is top notch: The visuals are very nice to have, the document is laid out nicely, the icons make the set clear to read and make the set a breeze to go through. It’s definitely something I need to keep in mind for my own sets, so I’m glad you and Junahu are there to spruce up our understanding of visual aids.

The writing style too doesn’t succumb to MYMian wichtigmacherei and when you use the terms you use, you don‘t give them a seperate paragroh to inflate word count. You know your stuff and the stuff is just part of the set. Why waste more words than necessary, which is a great quality to show you got the fundamentals down.

Combined with the visuals, it makes the set feel alive and makes it feel like these two have been buddying up together in Smash for real since Brawl, along with the “in-Smash” moveset itself. The set takes the signature attacks of Medli and propels it up to her main tool, although the usage of Neutral Special is more based on what the player decides to do with it rather than MYM Hard Interactions dictating its importance in the set. MYM Hard Interactions aren’t necessary per se, but I would’ve liked the Specials to have more synergy with the other moves, so that it becomes more of a centerpiece when combined with zoning tools, with or without specific hard interactions. It can be as simple as having more moves that combo into it, or giving it a place in Medli’s air game.

The other playstyle hook is well thought-out, with Makar buddying up for specific centerpiece moves. Maybe the set might be more interesting if Makar’s moves where more interspersed throughout the set, but I also understand the reason behind min-maxing Medli’s ground-airgame potential considering she is a bird and all. The set could be more spicy if one part of her air game involved Makar as well; maybe she could still combo really well, but would lose out on an aerial kill option, in return for maybe gaining a Smash. Other than that, the melee is serviceable, though more pizazz would be nice. It’s definitely there for the grab game between the Balloon and the Deku Leaf.

Overall a set that shows great care and thought throughout and portrays a good duo, though sometimes needs to go the extra mile to show how the two get the rhythm going by weaving together the various instruments.

I Don’t Dance (I Know You Can) (Baseball Boys by Slavic Slavic )
Yes, I’m on a duo spree and yes that somehow means High School Musical references, bet on it.
Baseball Boys is a fun take on the duo set, as the moves are equally divided over the two characters rather than moves being a double whammy: Together with the different mobility stats and different powersets, it creates a nice asymmetric playstyle.
Creating a set for these two is pretty hard, since the two have only one attack in YI, so I’m surprised at how the different projectiles and different reflectors carved out a niche for themselves instead of doubling up on their core business just for the fun of it.

Funnily enough, the set sort of surprises the reader in a curve, where the melee game dips a bit after the Smashes, but then the set comes back in a burst of creativity in the grab game. Not that the melee is bad per se, just more understated when the highlights tend to be the reflectors and the projectiles. Having a surprise mouseketool in there that’s not either of those, like Down Air’s Breaking Free application, would help the set stand out as more fleshed out, but even as it stands right now the set is a succesful experiment so much that I believe there might be even more to have gotten out of these little boogers, as Grab game shows.

Fabulous (Anna by Daehypeels Daehypeels )
Welcome to MYM! You all made quite a splash by dropping in with your bag full of backlog sets in the final day, something I already have made my fair share of passive agressive remarks over, but the feeling that sticks most is just utter glee that we have a fresh load of setters to join in our community!
Well, new is not exactly the right word, because you have been creating sets for a while, something that definitely shows! It gives your sets a unique style that I would hate to see be homogenized completely in your transition to MYMers, so let’s see what we as MYMers can learn from FFC-ers (or FCC-ers, whatevs) and, probably more relevant to you, a crash course on MYM.

First of all, I genuinely like your writing style. It’s fresh, it’s casual and it reads like you‘re bantering with a friend which makes the set read less like a document and more like a blog. For MYM, you do gotta be clearer in which design decisions you make and which are offhand speculation, but it’s not a writing style you have to abandon completely. One thing to keep it mind though is that, since MYM is so keen on the details and the paragraphs of it all that you don’t get long-winded, but for example the stat section was the right amount of breezy. It allows the set to prime the reader on the ideas it’s gonna implement, which is always nice, though make sure the reader spends more time reading the concepts than the foreshadowing to the concepts.
For this reason, I like the playstyle section in front of the entire set, as the reader gets a nice idea of what’s gonna be the strengths and weaknesses of the character and where the focus of the set will lie. MYM standards say you do have to type up a proper introduction section, with a short blurb about who Anna is in her home series (though this is gonna be the shortest in terms of “things MYM wants you to write down”)

Moving on to the Anna set itself, the highs of the set are genuinely impressive (and not even in the “surprisingly well for a casual n00b” sort of way). The gold meter might be a decently common MYM design sensibility, having outings in this contest in both Daisy and Saul Goodman (and probably more), expending another mechanic for the “bag money” gives the set a good core of juggling four weapon types, as the set notes. The fluid nature of all of these weapons as they can be upgraded seperately gives Anna a very versatile gameplan. The bow might only have two moves relegated to it, which is a biiit on the low side, the Neutral Air is an all-round input that Anna wants to use a lot anyway. Having the bag have its own interaction with money and its own moves distributed throughout the set is peak MYM and probably the highlight of the set.

The staff moves are a little understated in comparison, and I think the weight-lowering is interesting enough to make it a recurring effect to feature the staff more, which would also get rid of the more generic sword moves and give Anna a true Trickster vibe, something that is now a bit more snowed under as most of her sword moves are worse versions of Lucina. As you note in the set, generic moves can be the bread-and-butter, but right now Anna is a little bit on the weak side just balance-wise. MYM is pretty crazy when it comes to mechanics, so don’t be afraid to go overboard when you’ve struck Gold!

Out of the sword moves, I liked Up Air giving a glimpse of Anna’s adaptive playstyle, with the same move fulfilling different roles at different sword rarity levels. Noting how a move interacts with the various stages of Anna‘s gameplan can help her flesh out the sword strikes; at which percentage do they combo into the sack moves, and which size does the sack need to be?
Speaking of which, putting the Side and Up Special along with the other specials helps give the set that cohesion as well, and helps writing the generic moves too: regular sword strikes become a lot more impressive if Anna has the flexibility to either combo a weak sword hit into a big Spendthrift dash, or can chain together bigger blows if she spends her gold on swords instead! Having bag moves can then mix up that playstyle even more: what happens if Anna has a weak sword, but a big bag? What about vice versa?

Generally, the long moves in MYM are long because we tend to relate each move to each presented mechanic; for Anna, it means the weapon durability, the different swords, Spendthrift and the Bag are all factors that, if each move talks a bit about how they interact with each of those mechanics, the set becomes longer and, more importantly, makes richer connections between the various tools. Along with the basic checklist of damage, knockback, range, speed, lag and combo potential, I’m sure that Anna (and you by extension) has what it takes to quickly put out a great set.

Overall, Anna shows a lot of creative potential and it’s a pretty great set for a first-timer if the main criticism I have against it is that there just wasn’t more of it.
 
Last edited:

Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,143
Location
The Make Your Move Rooligan Society
You said you went hard on your Among Us set, and I can see what you mean! Right off the bat, the ally summoning is a neat way to implement the teamwork-based nature of Among Us. Angered allies seem powerful, but they are nicely balanced when one considers the Crewmate’s poor, lightweight status, and the fact that the ally is their main defensive option. Really like this as a base concept. Being able to order around your ally reminds me of US’s modern sets, too.

Side Special camera reminds me of the set of Special ideas you had for an L set, which I’d still be really interested in. A simple move, but has fun gameplay implications that incentivizes you not to summon the ally immediately.

Down Special that makes you invulnerable except to underground-hitting attacks, eh? That sounds like a challenge to make someone implement that kind of attack in their set. In all seriousness though, this is a really cool move altogether: a strong invul + standalone attack, but leaves you high in the air where you’re weak afterwards. I do wonder if the vent invulnerability is a bit too high (maybe it should be one second at most?), but that’s an easy change. I also like all of the ally usages of Down Special - using the vent attack to pressure opponents, make the Crewmate hide in the vent to take control of its ally, log their inputs in the vent.

I like the occasional D-Smash that serves as traps rather than hitboxes like Snake’s old D-Smash, similar to what Hol Horse did in MYM22. F-tilt’s varying knockback on angle is fun, too. I appreciate that D-tilt’s bullet has a limited diagonal downward range when it flies offstage, as that was something I was conscious of on Wakamo too. All Aerials are good, with D-air being particularly appealing among allies and seeing good use from the characters’ floatiness, and U-air being a fun little move with a variety of hitboxes. The special throws that involve your ally remind me of Naoto’s set: the up throw where you get your logged Aerial mix-ups with your ally being particularly cool.

Vent variations of attacks add an extra layer to Crewmate’s attacks that I was not expecting. Some of these moves are particularly fun, like U-Smash’s tracking and Jab being a simple tripping tool that the ally can’t capitalize on. Dash Attack being a wall, B-air and D-air catching out delayed aerial approaches. Honestly, pretty much all of the vent attacks, you get some surprisingly great mileage out of a guy in a vent with a few props. The mindgame factor where foes can’t tell what move the ally will use plays in very well with the mindgame-based nature of Among Us, and of course reminds me of Light Yagami and Death Note in general. You’ve said that you enjoy mindgame-based sets - when one considers that people make sets for the type of sets they like to see from others, it makes sense that you would absolutely tackle this kind of concept.

All and all, a strong concept with some cool tricks makes this one of your stronger sets this contest, in my opinion.
 

Arctic Tern

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 12, 2022
Messages
57
ADRAMELECH (OldManHan)

Adramelech opens with a concept that I'm pretty sure has never been done in modern MYM; whenever she appears, the match’s timer gets faster. I’m not really sure how I feel about this mechanic; on one hand, it is very unique and adds a unique layer of pressure, since if she gets an edge in damage she’ll win by default. On the other hand, I do feel that it’s a bit too oppressive, and I’m not sure how it would work in practice given I’m fairly sure most matches in Smash are fairly quick. It also doesn’t specify how this mechanic works when the match doesn’t have a timer, which is kind of important when adjusting timers is Adramelech’s whole gimmick.

Outside of the mechanic, Adramelech is fine. There’s not nearly as many “wow” moves as Ilias, but the moves serve their function fairly well for what they are. I do have similar “restrictiveness” complaints to Ilias, but there are enough moves with different applications that it is to a lesser extent. There’s certainly a wild concept, enough for me to approve of it, but it wasn’t as wild as Ilias was thus putting it slightly lower.

THE YORIGAMI SISTERS (OldManHan)

As another hardcore Touhou fan, I was naturally fairly excited to see you tackle this duo, especially since I’ve considered them a couple of times.

Jo’on does almost all of the work in the set, but that is the case in Antimony of Common Flowers so I’m not exactly complaining. I do feel that Perfect Possession is a bit underplayed; the whole point of it is that it forces the foe to deal with Shion’s bad luck, but here it’s just a combo tool. The set states that debuffs were a thing in an old version, but were removed due to being overpowered; I have no way of telling if they actually were overpowered but my idea has Jo’on hampered by debuffs with Shion with her, so that could be another means of balance.

Aside from that, the Yorigami Sisters are a standard combo focused set, with the admittedly neat idea of canceling moves into other moves. The set has similar problems as the much earlier Tifa set in that comboing is the entire focus of the set, and outright removed easy kill moves to make them combo tools. Even Fox has a casual kill move in his BAir, and he’s probably one of the characters you think of when you think of a combo character who can’t KO. Aside from that, I have similar balance concerns as with Froy in regards to the NAir (thanks to them for bringing that up) and similar concerns as to the buffed BThrow. I do like the idea of choosing buffed throws over an opportunity to extend a combo, but there’s not a lot of description as to the specific combo opportunities.

There are plenty of neat concepts, but there’s enough balance concerns (and probably me being more passionate about the characters, admittedly) that I’d rank this lower than every preceding set of yours.

BLACK DAHLIA (UnknownFate)

Black Dahlia adds another character to our surprisingly long list of FGC reps in this contest! I don’t have much to say about this one, mainly because the set itself is extremely basic. She’s a zoner, but doesn’t really have any real gimmicks aside from that. The ability to alter the properties of your bullets by reloading is pretty neat, though, so props to that.

KING KOOPA (Tortoise)

King Koopa is another basic set, but one with a bit more meat to it. Despite what the character choice may make you think, only one of Koopa’s moves even resembles Bowser’s, with the rest building of either his scepter, costumes, or general 80s cartoon villain incompetence. I do like how the SSpec minions are handled, more stage control tools that generally stay in place, but the wheel method is kind of odd for the input (angling the input would make more sense IMO). The dash attack is also pretty neat; Koopa throws a banana peel, which normally he trips on for an attack but if it hits a foe cancels the rest of the move and allows him to follow up. Koopa’s emphasis on his characterization was the final standout tidbit; he’s a schemer in the cartoons, so he controls the stage with minions and has a counter-zoning tool in his scepter.

This is, again, a basic set, so ultimately I’m not all that high on it, but there’s enough there that it gets a decently high rating for a set like this.

See more comments and ratings on my personal page!
 

ForwardArrow

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 17, 2011
Messages
477
Alcohol Witch Daniella
I've been beating around the bush on this set for a while, because its a pretty popular set that I just personally did not like. Its not awful, I think the core concept of an effect with upsides and downsides that you have control over how it gets applied to both parties is always a fun one, and this set has a pretty compelling one. Getting drunk increases the speed of a player's attacks and lets them knock opponents further away, but this speed comes with the downside of only really being able to land 1-2 hits in a row due to heavily nerfed combo potential(from both increased knockback and end lag). There's a suite of smaller debuffs attached to which make the user more frail, leading to an interesting setup for some impressively early kills for Daniella if she gets both parties drunk with the buffed knockback and debuffed defenses for the opponent. I think this tradeoff is interesting and Daniella's attacks have internal mixups and added unpredictability that lets her get more out of the extra speed than the opponent, but its still a bit risky due to forcing shorter combo strings and making her more frail when she's not exactly a defensive powerhouse as is. Its a good premise, I see why people find it interesting.

Where the set fails for me is in a couple areas. The first, and easier one to fix, is just the numbers. I think Daniella, as is, is just absurdly powerful, because you don't need to combo to get hilarious amounts of mileage out of her attacks. Honestly, I think the better strategy is just to get a foe near the ledge and then use your astronomically overpowered Fair on them. One thing I've noticed with your sets is that you're pretty fond of diagonally downwards knockback, and in this set its to Daniella's detriment because being able to bust out diagonally downward knockback on Frame THREE is obscenely powerful. Diagonally downward knockback is basically the best kind of knockback in the game in a lot of ways due to pushing the opponent away at both angles of recovery and actually getting kills before the opponent goes off the ledge unlike just regular downward knockback. Its not weak either, it kills reasonably early especially with the knockback multiplier... this move is in a kit where so, so many moves will just come out on Frame 3. A 7-frame lag drop off an entire moveset, universally, is kind of ludicrous. Daniella's got so many attacks that come out on frame 3 under these circumstances, including attacks with counters to defensive measures built into internal mixups, that it really feels like she's just going to bully foes toward the side of the stage and just pretty the delete button in Fair, because even if the foe CAN make it back she's got great edgeguarding tools in Up Tilt and her setup game, as well as just... throwing out another Frame 3 Fair at the foe. Fair could certainly see a nerf and I'd recommend it, but I think her ability to just bully the foe around by getting drunk herself and accept the flaws that come with 7 frames of lag off every move is kind of absurd as is. It also makes me think you don't really want to get the foe drunk that much because then you forfeit your speed advantage, a 7 frame universal lag buff just feels completely absurd even with a 5 frame end lag increase and decreased combo potential.

I think my other issues is just that I never really felt her setup game integrated all that naturally into the drunkenness stuff. There's points of intersection, like opponents not wanting to dash over puddles for momentum while drunk because they'll trip and the aforementioned edgeguarding aid. But the latter feels more like a bug than a feature, and in the former case, I kinda think foes won't want to go anywhere near Daniella's puddles anyway when her Smashes let her make setups out of them, and while I'm aware this is more subjective, I just don't feel like the drunkenness status effect and the barrels and puddles she can setup on stage really flow into each other well. It kind of feels like two separate movesets in that way, one broken but admittedly interesting and one a decent if a bit standard MYM setup set, and neither gets to reach its full potential because they just don't intersect in a particularly compelling way. Its why I probably wouldn't be too high on the set even if the drunken status effect was nerfed, so like. You might not want to entirely take my word on if that nerf needs to be made, I'm not particularly likely to vote this set anyway in a contest as competitive as this.

I do see what people like here, anyway. The individual nature of the setup part is decent, the melee here is well-written and accounts for a lot of things even if it did end up giving her way too strong an edgeguarding/pressure game for my liking, and the set has some decently innovative ideas even if it overlaps with Remilia a lot. I guess its worth bringing that up too: while the execution of the specifics is very different, Remilia's a set that takes lag cut and puddle mechanics and weaves them together a lot more seamlessly in exchange for not putting those effects on the foe, which arguably is the most itneresting part of Daniella's hook. So its not like you didn't successfully execute on these concepts, I just think the more deliberate balance Remilia had around it works better, and I'll definitely have to get around to commenting that set soon because its a treat. But as for Daniella, she feels like a branch in the execution of that set's ideas that ends up feeling a lot more aimless and flawed, and I can't say I'm a fan, but its still pretty impressive you went for a set of this scope during a JamCon.

Oh, though as a final note, I will say this character does feel like it emulates US' style of OC with its slightly different flavor and spin on it, her backstory and role in the world honestly feeling pretty solid. I actually think in terms of OC characterization you did a good job, and I'd be totally down to see you try that again. Especially considering this set is pretty popular despite my personal opinions on the matter.

Herminia
You know, Octopath Traveler 2 was something that I was a lot less surprised by when I learned that there was an Octopath Traveller gacha just lying around for a bit now. Not the first game I'd have expected a gacha to be made after, but I suppose its a very lucrative(read: exploitative) market so if there's an audience for it you mas well capitalize. More seriously though, Herminia's a set I actually enjoyed a decent bit! I think the concept of using a powered up input and then having that input deactivated in both players kits is a pretty fun take on the "buffs for all inputs" style of MYM set we see a decent bit of nowadays. This is, of course, only Herminia pretending to play fair, she can restore use of that input or even activate the empowered version of it repeatedly if she's got big piles of gold out on stage to derive her power from. That's the other part of this set, the gold piles, a bit of an old school MYM staple that died out over the years and even appeared in other Junahu sets before, brought back here with a pretty fresh take. This gold is effectively Herminia's blood, it gets distributed out on the stage as she takes damage and she can potentially recover using it too. That makes your gold setups incidental, but Herminia can inflict deliberate self-damage to leave gold out on stage in an attack that's actually pretty potent on its own merits too, and of course, playing off the incidental setup your opponent creates just by hitting you will work just fine too.

There's a real nice... kineticness to it all, honestly, I found the interactions to feel pretty simple and satisfying. There's something very satisfying about just smacking a foe into a gold pile and having it echo the knockback and some of the damage, either to skip them all over the stage with high damage or just lead to some downright hilarious KOs if everything lines up with FSmash. There's very clear visual indicators and a kind of satisfying flow to how the interactions play out that feels like the stuff you'd see out of a professional game designer, and the set's visual presentation itself is also really solid. Its a set that, no matter what you can argue about the specifics of how its gameplay plays out, the game FEEL is excellent and its something I remember liking about your old sets back in the day too. Just nice to see that back in a modern context, and makes me look forward to Mao.

I do have complaints, though I do think the overall playstyle is handled pretty well especially for a 3 day set from someone who only got back into MYM pretty recently. I don't like Gold Curse, plain and simple. Its a pretty vague status effect in terms of how dramatic it is on foes, and I think it makes the process of getting rid of gold piles maybe a little too annoying, as the way it affects a foe's movement can really screw with their combos. I think if you're messing with a foe's mobility via status effect, you need a good reason to do so, and here it mostly just feels like an incidental effect to deter foes from destroying Herminia's setup. I'd also echo Froy's complaints that not all of the extra throws are great(though I think its cool you added them at all and I think the whole package gives added depth to Herminia's grab game) and the way the melee flows into itself isn't particularly polished, mostly just feeling like the set wants to keep the foe at a distance and... that's about it for connections on that end, beyond the fun gold pile stuff. But honestly, I do think the gold pile shenanigans, solid character work, and great game feel do carry this set, I found myself enjoying it more than I did Kactuar last contest and also feeling like it was one of the best of JamCon #5's entries.

Baron Mordo
The genre of boss-summoner is, even in the crazy, summons-loving environment of MYM, a pretty rare one. The only sets in this genre I can name off the top of my head before Mordo are Don Thuosand, Werner Werman, and Syndrome. The last of those is the set Mordo feels the most like because he's either trying not to antagonize Dormammu, or play off Dormammu's hostility in a way that's more beneficial than hurtful to him. Mordo's got a fair few tricky attacks to let him make a hostile Dormammu useful as he throws his projectiles into a different path or puts the opponent in the way of a Dormammu attack aimed for him, and this kind of thing is definitely good fun. The set never goes TOO wild with its melee and once it gets to the specials for manipulating opponents into Dormammu's actions its pretty classic MYM stuff like an illusionary duplicate(handled pretty tastefully for modern times though) and portal setups to throw projectiles, Mindless Ones, and opponents to inconvenient parts of the stage, but I feel these tricks hold up pretty well. Attacks that stood out to me were FSmash for being able to REALLY get big quantities of curse out of to summon Dormammu and deal massive damage to the opponent in FSmash, and Dash Attack just because the animation is really, really cool. I might have to steal it sometime.

As for the set's faults, I figured I should point out that Fair, FSmash, and FTilt are all pretty wonky moves and its... probably not great that every single one of Mordo's forward facing options comes with some amount of attached awkwardness. Its the kind of thing that I feel would add up to cause him a good few woes in an actual match, especially given attacking a foe in front of you is the most common angle to deal with opponents in Smash. This is a pretty noticeable balance problem compounded with the absolutely gigantic boss with stage sweeping attacks that summons his own minions, so I'm pretty convinced that whatever place this set's balance is in, its not a good one. But I can't point out a specific way to break the set that came to mind immediately, and I think the set did a respectable job of making him work both as a solo AI boss fight and moving him to his Boss-style minion role in the set, so I'm inclined to give the set my approval despite that.

Elimine
You don't seem terribly fond of this one given what you've said about the set in chat and... yeah to be honest I do see why that is, but I don't think this set is lacking in merits in its own right. This set is very focused on keeping Elimine in place, stacking and maximizing her buffs in a way that feels a bit static, and at times silly when she's summoning the bonus items she gave in Fire Emblem 7 to grab out of the sky. That said, there's definitely something satisfying about the buildup when you stack two blessings together and let Elimine go completely beast mode by holding down the fort on your Holy Ground until the buffs become enormous, and I don't think the playstyle of trying to be static is without merit. I liked the fairly basic Bellossom just fine, and I think that playing king of the hill is a unique enough way to play Smash that doesn't clash with the way the game's meant to be played TOO hard, but I'll be honest Elimine didn't do a ton of stuff to commit to this playstyle, the most interesting bits being the mobility on the aerials to kind of weave in and out of Holy Ground in a sudden fashion. I do think that stuff's fun, but I found the rest of the set a little lacking in terms of ways to build on the buff system.

The grab game is pretty wild, though, I have to say. Basically using the Fire Emblem Heroes summoning orbs as projectiles akin to Mewtwo's throws, which you can spend the FE7 bonus items on as payment feels, if nothing else, like a silly but kind of fun-feeling way to fish for good RNG results. And hey, if you spend a whole 10 items you get the Celestial Stone which just drops down and whacks the opponent on the head for huge damage and knockback, which felt like one of the most blindsidingly ridiculous things I've seen in a set of yours. I don't know why, but I think just the commitment to "every part of the buffalo" with Fire Emblem Heroes' mechanics including the gacha pity system of all things, plus the sheer impracticality of ever actually using it, and how it gets introduced right at the end out of nowhere, just kind of made me burst out laughing when I saw it. Honestly, the set on the whole is pretty funny as it plays up what tiny aspects of Elimine's character we have(the Fire Emblem 7 Bonus Disk, being in a gacha game, and apparently the sins of racism and Catholicism) to hilarious degrees. I'm not sure its the most sensible way to represent the character, but her existence in the FE universe has always been either as a minor lore character or a weird gimmick, so its fair enough to take a silly approach like this.
 
Last edited:

Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,143
Location
The Make Your Move Rooligan Society
I like how, while this is essentially the same character as Crewmate, both sets have extremely different intro write-ups. Both fighters are frail and lack casual kill moves, though, but Blue has a stronger set of moves than Crewmate. This guy must have more fighting experience.

Here the vents get a different use as a simple, stage-dependent grounded teleport that is primarily used to escape or extend your combos. It is probably not that good for escaping when it has 15 frames of start-up and can only be used on the ground, but that is fine for balancing its teleport nature. Perhaps what you could do is make it so the move stales like spot dodges if you use it to teleport excessively? That is, it starts out very fast but gets slower when used repeatedly.

The air version is neat as a way that Blue can rush to his Crafting Table-esque Meeting Table for another fun repositioning tool, and pull opponents towards him while he’s at the table! If you’re not suffering through that long cooldown. I understand that the move is an infinite recovery, which is bold and balanced out by the fact that the table’s position and lack of a moving hitbox make it predictable. What if there’s stage between Blue and his table?

Counter is another fun little spin on Steve’s Crafting Table, where knockback is directed towards your table. This set is really reminding me of how much simple but fun potential that Steve’s Crafting Table has for sets.

Sabotage is not something that was present in Crewmate’s set. I like how this set leaves it open to interpretation whether the character you’re playing as is genuine or an impostor.
- Making the screen go dark is hard to sell in a set, but I like that fighters’ shields are still visible.
  • Messing with the foe’s joystick sensitivity is… not something we see in many sets! Another tricky sell, but I appreciate that Blue is affected too, and the joystick messing technically doesn’t ban or limit fighters gameplay-wise.
  • Making the blast zones warp is another crazy thing we don’t really get in sets. Feels like you’d be using this to recover, rather than loop your opponent around when KO’ing them is a far better outcome (unless you’re trying to disrespect them). Really feels like the type of move that you’d see from an arrogant reality warper who likes to toy with their opponents.

Side Special is a fun move on paper: charge move to send out asteroids, release it to blow one up when it’s in your green square. I am not against RNG, but the speed and spawn rate of the asteroids do feel too vague to sell the move as well as they could.

- Dash Attack is arguably more fun than Down Special , given it can be used to knock foes to the table on demand. I imagine a scenario on platforms with stages where Blue could knock the opponent down into the ground for a prone situation. Down Special admittedly feels less Special when you have multiple quick moves to knock foes towards your table.
  • U-tilt powering up your Dash Attack is strange, but fun. Is it a one-use buff? Doesn’t say that it goes away over time.
  • D-tilt hitting at the vent you last came out of is fun. Maybe you can tilt the control stick while crouching to pick whether you have the attack pop out in front of you, or from a vent on either side of you. The set doesn’t specify how long the whole “attack at the last vent you popped out from” thing lasts for: might want to clarify on that.

  • F-Smash is interesting: very powerful for its start-up, but has poor range if not charged.
  • I’m guessing that D-Smash KO’ing at 42% is a typo, since the move is stated to have low knockback scaling and be good at comboing.

  • With moves like U-Smash and the nature of the throws, this set has a more “proppy” feel than Crewmate, where Blue makes use of a lot of non-combative items.
  • As nice as the D-throw puddle is for Blue’s spacing game, it does feel really tacky to create a puddle of water just by pouring water on the stage with a large jug. I don’t know whether you can create slippery puddles of water in Among Us, but it does a bit… off for this character.
  • U-throw geyser is neat, but it doesn’t detail a time limit or how tall the geyser is.
  • I like that the slingshotting mechanic is mentioned in the Aerials.

Overall, a daring set with a mish-mash of concepts that can come across as tacky (some moves like N-air where Blue doesn’t appear to be intentionally attacking his opponent) and don’t always feel focused, or at their full potential. Nonetheless, I enjoyed this one more than I expected for its short length! Even if Eldlich and Meltryllis are much higher in my opinion, it’s still one of your stronger solo sets.

Also, it’s funny that you made a set for Red last contest, and a set for Blue this contest.


We got a set for this guy in MYM11.

  • I wonder if the KO percents of the Neutral Special projectiles should be spread out? Each version just KOs about 10% earlier than the last, and you can’t store the charge like other projectiles. Could be something like: KOs at 150%, 118% and 70% respectively?
  • If I’m reading correctly, it takes 25 seconds for the Sphere Doomer to perform all 10 of its bites. It’s nice to have a projectile that’s a command grab in a zoning-based set, but it does feel under-defined: can the foe act while they’re being bitten? If it takes so long for the bite to launch, I could see it being used as a kill extension when the foe is near the blast zone.
  • Aside from stopping projectiles, Down Special doesn’t seem to have much of a hitbox or a very well-defined role against opponents.
  • F-Smash is really, really powerful - the KO percents might be a tad overtuned for its lag. Given that Magalor is meant to be big on zoning and projectiles, I think that a projectile-based F-Smash would be much better for him: he only has 2 projectile inputs on his set, which is less than other dedicated projectile characters in Smash.

Aside from damage, KO percents and frame data, the moves don’t go into much detail about their applications, especially compared to other FFC entries. For instance, I could see the current F-Smash being a big hard read tool that suffers if you miss. In what ways can these moves combo, and how can Magalor use them in neutral? Side Special is an interesting move, but could do with some more detail. Sorry if I’m being a bit hardh here.


So this is a custom character set, eh? Like Pokemon Trainer. The sorcerer’s spell gimmick is nice, though it does run into an issue I’ve seen with a number of FFC sets where it feels like it takes way too long for the mechanic to charge up. I am assuming that FFC sets are balanced around being played in long timed matches or 3-stock matches. I also like Rogue’s gimmick of cutting end lag on your attacks when they connect: simple, but a strong base that could make for a great set if it was focused on and sold it with strong clarification.

  • Looking at sorcerer Specials, spell slots definitely charge way too slowly for what little pay-off you get from the moves they are involved in.
  • How long does Firestorm trap opponents for? Feels like it would be a good time to mention that you could combo into something nice for all the charge you invested in, or that it’s a scary way to trap shielding opponents.
  • It does feel strange for all 3 classes, especially the sorcerer, to use the same type of weapons and moves outside of their Specials and Smashes. To be fair, you’re working with 3 different characters, but still.


For our last MYM25 entry, Cursola has a neat gimmick in its Perish Body, which has it perform an automatic delayed attack 4 seconds after it takes 25-20% from direct attacks - I like the reference images, but it’s hard to read the text of the one on the right. Does the delayed hitbox deal hitstun or knockback if it doesn’t instakill the foe? The move captures the effects of Pokemon’s Perish Song move nicely, and the boost to Cursola’s movement speed during the delay is nice. Ectoplasm to slow opponents works nicely with this mechanic, too.

If Perish Body hits on frame 8, and presumably interrupts whatever you were doing, does that mean you could use it to cancel out of an attack you were performing?

  • I am okay with the way damage percents are vaguely presented in the set. I don’t think that not listing specific percents in a set destroys it, but it is generally better to list specific percents if you can.
  • Much as I like Jab projectiles and its ectoplasm uses, the move feels really underpowered when it takes 30 frames to fire one, same end lag as Rool’s F-Smash and the attack doesn’t even deal hitstun, so it doesn’t stop opponents from punishing you. Not flinching is okay (though maybe it should up-close, so it can function like a regular Jab), it works with Perish Body, just that maybe it should be faster if it’s not going to deal hitstun.
  • D-tilt checks as a defensive move, to compensate for Jab dealing no stun and U-tilt having a specific hitbox directly above you.

  • Details like frame data and knockback can be vague in this set, but I commend that you have drawings for each move in this set, making it easier to understand the attacks’ animations.
  • When you say that F-Smash “can kill quite early,” are you referring to the fact that the move deals knockback after the daze effect, or that you can hit opponents with another attack while they’re dazed? Does feel like you should list this move’s lag, given its potency. Also, what happens if you hit an airborne opponent - do they just take knockback?
  • D-Smash suction works nicely with Perish Body kill.
  • F-throw tech chase is nice.
  • B-throw’s animation is funny.

  • Neutral Special checks nicely as a tool that makes Cursola dangerous if opponents do not engage with it. Being able to make the ball stop in place for 4 seconds by jumping or performing defensive options is quite cool - that it deals half as much damage when it is still is a decent balancing effect. Being able to redirect the ball after its stopping time is up is very cool too.
  • Side Special is fun too, and Up Special more so for its various options and synergy with Perish Body. Quite liking your diagrams for the Specials.
  • Down Special seems like it would work decently with Cursola’s moveset a bit more so than other fighters, thanks to Perish Body and its light weight. Being able to ban your opponent’s Up Special does feel very powerful though - counters generally get the most use as edgeguarding tools in Smash.

With a fun base concept and some moves that work together for a cohesive playstyle, which are sold further in the competitive aspects section, Cursola is actually quite a strong FFC set. All that holds the set back for me is Jab, a bit of questionable balance on Neutral Special and Down Special, and a good number of vague details on the regular moves. Otherwise, good job here!
 

WeirdChillFever

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 10, 2014
Messages
6,412
Location
Somewhere Out There
BOFURI’s nu- [this message was edited by a moderator] (Mai and Yui by Katapultar Katapultar )
Another day, another duo! Mai and Yui take yet another approach by splitting the two gals up by the button input to give them a playstyle based on splitting them up in order to circumvent their heavyweight playstyle.

This heavyweight playstyle is pretty minmaxed, but unlike other sets that have tried to go all-in on heavy blows, the set balances the otherwise lopsided archetype by making the trouble double, which is a nice way to make both heavyweights and a duo set complement eachother. Glad you mostly avoided the “move is bad unless there’s two”, though it’s still the most apparent balance tool in the set to make the slow hits be unreliable unless a sister is there to threaten.

The centerpiece of the set, though, is actually what the set is missing: Specials! This blindsided me until Forward Tilt, which had a full-on follow-up that secretly housed a mechanic in and of itself. Swapping hammers around is an incredibly fun mechanic that, together with its aerial counterpart and the semi-counters in Up Tilt, makes up for the lack of Specials.
In the past, I’ve commented on your habit of adding bells-and-whistles to the more basic moves to hard code a niche into them, so I was surprised that you sort of restrained yourself this time (although a good amount of moves still have extra inputs or psuedo-counters to them. It’s a really cool way to turn your habits into a set core; having special mechanics on random buckwild moves is much more welcomed if there’s no Specials. In fact, I think you could’ve gone further in adding these extras and, more importantly, given them more of a centerpiece role in the set. Still, it is very impressive to make an enjoyable set that doesn’t have specials, and I doubt I would’ve even noticed if Forward Tilt didn’t set off my fight-or-flight Manacuff reaction.

Happy to see someone else join the club of intricate grab games. Weird to see the grab game go the extra mile when the rest of the set is fundamentals-based but I am glad you’ve seen the light either way.
 
Last edited:

Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,143
Location
The Make Your Move Rooligan Society
Walkure is a set like no other in MYM25… or rather, she is like FA’s Valkyrie set, because she is an echo fighter of that set! Uncharted territory for MYM. It definitely checks that your echo set would be for a character with a spear.

Giving Walkure an entirely different base concept to FA’s 3-man is very smart, and feels like the right way to do echoes of other setmakers’ sets: it means that while Walkure feels like your own work, despite having animations and attacks based on Valkyrie. I’m sure that FA must have been flattered to have a set be a semi-clone of his own. I’d be very happy to see more of these kinds of sets, and even do a semi-clone of someone else’s sets. No promises there though, because my esoteric franchise interests would make that difficult.

Here Walkure’s core concept is a collection of nice little buffs. The more unique one here is the omnidirectional jump, and the homing jump after performing an attack. The latter reminds me of Remilia Scarlet’s mechanics, which you’ll see soon enough where you get to her. The way Mobility Amplification works does mean that Walkure will almost always have it on (unless you’re getting really pressured when you need to activate it), which means that her MA bonuses are pretty much always active, compared to other fighters who need to work harder for their buffs. This does make the buff a bit less compelling than it could be, but not to major effect.

Nova is a simple, but reasonable enough tool for Walkure’s air-orientated game. Ironically, Divine Execution’s debuffs reminds me of something that you’d see in a bigger FA set: it’s neat that the set is dedicated to landing this tipper-based debuff.

(I didn’t know that Fox could jump or dodge after he reflected a projectile! Quite fun, worth considering for future sets. And pffft, Heavy Nova.)

While the base concepts of this set are understandably tame, given you’re working with a generic F/GO enemy rather than a full-fledged Servant, the melee is neat. F-tilt is especially cool for the defensive first strike vs the more range-y second strike that sacrifices defense in neutral, and it gets better when (under Mobility Amplification) you can go into your U-tilt or D-tilt instead! F-tilt’s second hit! Feels like one of your more innovative F-tilts since Fairy Knight Gawain, and has obvious comparisons to Hakumen’s U-tilt. D-tilt works nicely with Walkure’s homing jump.

F-Smash’s “choose your launch angle” when you get all the conditions right is not something I was expecting - but I do remember you said you wanted to do custom knockback stuff with Sale from JoJo Part 5. U-Smash was the one move that made me read the author’s notes, a neat MYM’ian move that I admittedly don’t remember a ton of from FA’s Valkyries. D-Smash’s counter invincibility helps to sell the need to imprint Divine Executionmore. D-throw being a frame-neutral that goes into depth about Walkure’s not-so-great frame-neutral, but throw out a potent delayed hitbox in return, is a neat little take on the patented time bomb throw genre.

In the end, I found that the melee held up and made Walkure one of your stronger sets this contest! I might be one of the people who prefers her more to the original Valkyries for that reason. A neat way to end your very strong contest.


Oh, and one more set I need to comment. Then I can say that I have commented on every MYM25 set...

Sorry for the late comment!

  • Hoppip specifically being shiny is funny. We don't get many sets for Shiny Pokemon.
  • Pfft, I love that Shiny Hoppip gets benefits from Sunlight, but can't summon sun on her own. The fact that this set references recent sets around the time it was made (like Melt and Belossom) makes it a fun read for its time. Referencing your own recent set is nice too.
  • Funny that Up Special references Twisted Metal, which I am pointing out because you very recently threw out a TM potential tier list in the Discord thread.
  • Cotton Spore is indeed balanced.
  • Down Special giving you an extra stick does make me cringe, but that's just because I did the same thing in Shedinja years ago. That is my fault, not yours.
  • Sweet Scent is a truly bizarre reality-warping move on par with Blue's blast-zone shenanigans. This set channels the energy of older MYM sets that are hellbent on making the match as obnoxious for players as possible, which stretching the blastzones is sure to do.
  • Funny that Sweet Scent draws in people who don't come out of Pokeballs. Way to make people pay attention to characters' entrance animations!
  • I like the logic behind D-Smash being ridiculously powerful to compensate for the fact that her 2 Smashes suck. Hoppip is a fair and balanced character!
  • F-tilt encouraging your opponent not to interact with you flows with D-Smash!
  • I approve that U-tilt acknowledges the existence of the almighty being that is Dark Blupi. The meta of MYM's joke set roster grows...
  • I would be genuinely interested in seeing a moveset play around with a grab that only hits above them.
  • An Aerial with ridiculously long starting lag (@ F-air) would be fun to see on a serious set. For some reason, this makes me think of Tristan Taylor.
  • B-air traveling ridiculously far is strangely intriguing to me. I think you could do something fun with this on a serious set?
  • Swords Dance swords tacky lol. Pokemon Syndrome, 0/10.
  • I'm guessing that Victory A is meant to reference something that's not Pokemon-related.
  • I love that Victory C brings all of your Pokemon to play, especially the infamous Melvin.
 
Last edited:

Arctic Tern

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 12, 2022
Messages
57
LA CROIX (OldManHan)

La Croix has two very neat ideas: the first is that she gains access to a second moveset when she hits 50% damage. The second is that the second form is a minion set, where she can choose between three pairs of minions, one member of the selected pair replacing most of her kit and the other staying out as a more standard minion. I think the transition between the two sets is decently handled, with the first stage’s goal being to get damage in before La Croix hits the 50% mark because without her minions her set is bad. The minions also have some neat stuff in them, with one of them being able to spread puddles that boost her normally lacking movement.

The main issue with this set, I’d say, is overcomplexity. Both the minion and second moveset would be major gimmicks on their own, but they’re both included in this set, thus leading to the latter gimmick being overshadowed. The way the minions work is also quite complex, with all three pairs replacing almost the entirety of her moveset. While the base is cool, the set doesn’t really exploit it as much as it could, thus leading to there being not a lot of flow between each different pair.

You’re planning on remaking La Croix next contest, so here’s a detailed list of what I’d change:

  • Scrap the second moveset gimmick. As you lamented in chat, the second form is the only form people care about so make it so that only the second form is playable. I get that this is how the fight with her plays out (I assume anyway) but the minions are the clear highlight so the second moveset ends up overshadowed. Plus, it’s not like La Croix can’t use her first form’s attacks in her second form, unlike other characters whose appearance changes too drastically to feasibly combine them. With almost every character there’s an element of potential you have to ignore for the sake of a better structured moveset. First form could definitely still be an alt, though.
  • The “Combined/Far” gimmick is neat, but reading essentially four whole sets with different playstyles is both overwhelming and leads to a lack of flow. I’d just make it so that they change La Croix’s Smashes, allowing them to get a good bit of focus while not flooding the reader with individual moves. A good example of a similar structure would be Slavic’s MYM 24 Seto Kaiba set, which ended placing 2nd. The Far minions could also be streamlined a bit, mostly to make them more predictable for the opponent.
  • I’d like for there to be a way to alter the formations of which minions you summon, instead of being locked to specific pairs. I assume these pairs are the ones used in La Croix’s boss fight, but I feel going for a more creative take on the mechanics would allow for greater tactical depth.
  • As a result of this, La Croix’s solo set should turn from “useless” to “situational”. La Croix’s solo set being bad to compensate for her minions is a great way to balance things out, but you can’t keep her set like that when her minions only replace a small section of her set instead of basically all of it.

There’s a lot of other things I’d tinker with, but these are the major ones. Don’t let the huge list of changes fool you, though; the size should tell you that you’ve got a killer moveset concept for me to discuss it in length!

MIMA (OldManHan)

Mima is the first true PC-98 Touhou character we’ve had a set for, not counting Reimu since she’s in every game, which doesn’t really surprise me given her popularity. The set includes the MYM staple of a meter that buffs some of her attacks, as well as a unique dodge that allows her to move wherever she wants. The set’s goal is to make Mima the destructive force that the fandom often depicts her as, with a powerful dash attack and a 2 frame USmash that requires all of her meter to fill. I did like her recovery, and the edits to specify how it worked with her other moves shows a good bit of growth.

I did walk out of the set with a few notable complaints. First, I don’t like how you have to use the meter to get some of your attacks, at least that’s how I read it; it’d be best for it to be an option as it is on other moves. Second, I have a few balance concerns, though take that with a grain of salt as that’s mostly due to me reading the balance concerns other FFC members had. Last, and most importantly to me - and this may seem a bit strange - this doesn’t feel like Mima. The set certainly has the playstyle down, but it uses almost none of her attacks from the games she appears in. With some PC-98 characters you kinda have to do this to get anything out of them, but Mima is not among them; she has two boss fights and two playable appearances! What I’m saying is that Mima doesn’t just need the playstyle, she needs recognizable moves to truly represent Mima.

While Mima could definitely use a better set, this certainly isn’t a bad effort, and I appreciate it for giving us another PC-98 set.

CELICA A. MERCURY (ComicWaterz)

Celica adds another character to the proud, growing list of ArcSys sets. I like how the super moves are handled, though at first I didn’t recognize them since you first called them “quartercircles”; she doesn’t always have them, and needs to fulfill specific requirements in order to do them. The set doesn’t really break anything with its mechanics, and I like how there’s a trade off between the supers and healing yourself with DSpec.

The primary complaint about the set, aside from there not being a lot of explanation in the moves, is that it plays nothing like Celica in BlazBlue. I know that adapting her in this way is probably the best way to appeal to the FFC crowd, but it needs to be noted that MYM has significantly different standards than FFC. Most FGC sets try to adapt the character’s playstyle into the Smash engine, making adjustments to their moves as needed. Celica does not; she’s a superheavy when in BlazBlue she’s ridiculously frail, she doesn’t have that good of a combo game when crazy combos are a major selling point in anime fighters, and most importantly her most intriguing mechanics aren’t present. The big gimmick is that she can use Minerva as a puppet and get “blue health” which she can either use to heal or buff her special moves, but they’re not actually in this version of the set. Getting an accurate playstyle is important to all sets, but IMO this is especially the case for FGC characters since they already have an established playstyle.

I’m sorry to say, Waterz, but I’m fairly sure that this is the first set I’ve read this contest that I actually dislike. I do still believe you have potential - just look at Felicia - but this just doesn’t click for me.

See more comments and ratings on my personal page!
 

n88

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 10, 2008
Messages
1,481
Naoto Shirogane by Arctic Tern Arctic Tern
Apologies for taking so long to get to this one! I was excited to see it drop and I started reading it quite some time ago, but didn’t finish and… well, time makes fools of us all.

I do have a bias in favor of this set working the way it does, I admit; it’s very satisfying to me that Akechi resonated with someone well enough to go and use the set as kind of a mechanical blueprint for a different character. Doing my level best to set that bias aside, I dig the ways you’ve played around with the Akechi framework to make it your own and better suit Naoto. It’s always fun to see different MYMers’ takes on similar concepts and this is no exception.

Mechanical differences become really interesting in this context. The approach to Hamaon/Mudoon has the big obvious distinction that you mention in an author note, that Naoto takes a very different approaches to instant kills. But I think it’s also fun to unpack say… the fact that Hamaon/Mudoon are genuinely different moves in Naoto’s set despite living on the same input, whereas Akechi just uses them interchangeably. Obviously some of that can be chalked up to the fact that you’re partly adapting P4AU attacks here and they’re more differentiated in that game! But it does meaningfully separate light from dark in Naoto’s kit and make her aware of their advantages and disadvantages as tools. Meanwhile on Akechi I avoided differentiating the two – I’ve always interpreted Robin Hood’s bless/curse duality (besides being a callback to Naoto) as speaking to an ethos that is… let’s say results-oriented. Anyway, I promise to stop talking about Akechi in a comment on a different moveset, I just wanted to speak to that a little bit because I think this set makes it fun to compare and contrast the two.

Some attacks in the set feel very silly to me, but a lot of those are pulled right from P4AU! I guess (and this is a take I wouldn’t expect most folks here to necessarily agree with) that most P4 characters feel a bit out of place to me in a fighting game. I’ve played P4AU a bit, but P4G is still my primary context for the characters. Something I enjoy about P4AU is that it embraces the weirdness of “P4 fighting game” and just goes deranged and silly and over-the-top. Getting that crazy style filtered back through your sort of no-nonsense technical approach gives the set an oddly undersold presentation at times. This is not at all a criticism of the set - just a passing thought about how certain moves (like say, Shotgun Recovery) are really pretty wild in the context of P4, but just kind of tossed out in this set like they’re intuitive things for Naoto to be doing because they’re totally normal in P4AU. It’s an interesting tension that I think can only really crop up on something like this, an adaptation of an adaptation.

As for the mechanical meat of the set itself, there’s a very tech-chasey playstyle here that feels right; I like that emphasis on pursuit and reads on a detective character. The Snake influence is a great choice; besides having some set-up and tech-chase tricks in his gameplan that are similar to Naoto’s, he’s just got really fun attacks to use as inspiration. The melee feels generally solid here, and I don’t have a ton to say about it.

I did have to go back over the set at the end and chew over some of the Fate Gauge options to get a feel for how quickly she can actually deplete the gauge; I think it can be a little hard to follow that thread through the set and retain knowledge of what’s going on with it. I think what’s there works well, though: a couple chunky gauge depletion options she can bust out if she gets reads, a few more scattered ways to just shave 1 or 2 points off.

Stray thoughts:
  • I haven’t played enough P4AU to really have a good feel for Naoto’s kit or playstyle there, so I don’t have much to say about the set as an adaptation at that level.
  • The description of where Hamaon’s square of light (aka the Hamsquare) can show up is a little awkwardly conveyed, mainly in that cases around one or both fighters being in the air feel like they’ve been inserted as after-thoughts. The following paragraph still segues like the first paragraph ended on the “not quite an insta-kill!” sentence, but there’s been a fair amount of technical detail since then.
    • That’s not that much of a problem though. Mostly I just wanted to say “Hamsquare”.
  • I think it’d be cleaner to make the Persona FSpec differentiation work off tap/hold, more like the NSpec does - double-tap of a two-button input feels a little gnarly. I also like consistency-of-control when there’s not a reason to deviate.
  • Is it intentional that the Persona FSpec follow-up hit effectively takes away Naoto’s NSpec by overriding the input? Or is it meant to work off A+B rather than just B?
  • The endlag on Persona DSpec is way too low.
  • I think you probably want the ‘up’ angle on Snipe to be below 45 degrees to be ideal for catching shorthops. Don’t believe she fires that high in P4A either.
  • Snipe doesn’t really seem to consider using the move off-stage or in the air. Easy trap to fall into when adapting stuff from trad fighters – I think the flow around the Hamsquare description also suffered from this.
  • I like how the Anti-S SP Pistol β deals more damage at close range, just like a real Anti-S SP Pistol β.
  • “It deals 2.9% damage and very weak upwards knockback, not enough to kill under any circumstance but enough to jab lock” - I believe hits that send upward can’t lock.
  • You’ve got a couple conflicting KO percentages in the first paragraph FThrow - at first I thought the first one was maybe the KO percent at the ledge if she misses the stage, but it wouldn’t make sense for that one to be higher than the ground-bounce one.
  • In the all-Naoto FFA, those Fate Gauges have really gotta be plummeting. Unless each Naoto gets separate Fate Gauges for each enemy Naoto, which sounds like a UI nightmare.
 

Slavic

Ask not the sparrow how the eagle soars
Premium
Joined
Jun 5, 2013
Messages
736
Location
taco bell, probably
A wonderful joint set by Rychu Rychu and FrozenRoy FrozenRoy to start the contest off, I'm finally getting off my ass and reading it! Whitebeard is an incredibly heavy-hitting heavyweight who channels some of the most fun things a character in Smash can be. Sure he's slow as hell, but puts just about everyone else to shame with some absurd damage values and kill thresholds. For a character like this, who's so cumbersome both in movement and attack speed, it pays off to keep his firepower so impressive. There's definitely a fine line Whitebeard toes here, but never crosses it in my opinion, doubling down on his barren approach game. Specials are especially well put together, Up Special giving Whitebeard one of the more memorable recoveries of a set I've read. I really love the choice to have a powerful counter on the world's strongest man be best when used against weak moves. Not only does it stand out but compliments Whitebeard's playstyle exquisitely.

The only issue I really have with the Specials is the Neutral Special terraforming, mostly because it's a bit tricky for me to wrap my head around. I think a picture explicitly showing what it looks like when one of these wall/slopes are made and where they're formed would be helpful, at least for me. The set talks a few times about Whitebeard's slopes when they are above him, but if my understanding of them is right (they're like the Yoshi's Island pipe) that seems really niche given his height. This is particularly true for the NAir wall sticking, where there hardly seems like there'd be enough room for him to even jump. It might be an issue in how I'm interpreting it but Neutral Special was a move I had to reread a fair number of times as is.

Whitebeard's melee game is full of treats throughout, featuring devastating tectonic blows and massive naginata attacks. The Smashes are horrifying to face, very cool, and in general Whitebeard has to be respected for the power it's willing to give attacks. Dash was a great move to read, very cool to have the different follow-ups and showcases a good depth of knowledge while also giving our man a much needed approach tool. Neutral Air is another move worth bringing up, a wickedly fun omnidirectional Sephiroth FAir, complete with a funky follow-up that probably shouldn't be used as an approach but someone can certainly try. Honestly, my biggest problems with the set are that I think it gets just a bit away from the terraforming, which considering how good the set is as is is hardly a huge complaint (also gotta love that English lets 'is as is is' be a proper clause). The wall is almost never talked about during the set, and while the slope is brought up I'm still a little unclear on how it works as described. Despite this, this beefy boy really did kick off the contest with aplomb and is an impressive showcasing of both your abilities, good work!
 
Last edited:

UserShadow7989

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
279
Cramorant by BridgesWithTurtles BridgesWithTurtles

At first, the core moves had me a little uncertain about how I felt about the set- Cramorant's core felt like it could easily be an obnoxious camper, with Whirlpools and Whirlwinds and effects that can extend the duration of both. However, its stats and move pool (for the most part, I'll get to that soon) don't support it camping out the foe, and the moves it has best suited to play into the traps require it get up close and personal, while also not being able to pile on insult to injury easily off of getting a foe into a trap.

Your primary gimmick, the Gulp Missile, can't be fired through a Whirlpool, only into it to enhance its effects, so the set neatly dodges the obvious problem having a wide lingering hitbox to hide behind paired with a strong projectile would present. Cramorant also only has one move guaranteed to get it into Mouthful Mode, and it's a very laggy one; the chance of entering the mode is always high off of the relevant moves, so Cramorant won't often get screwed by RNG, but trying to just camp the opponent via spam will leave you coming up empty sooner or later if all else fails. A combination of being somewhat weak in a straight brawl (though far from incompetent and able to level the playing field with Gulp Missile on tap) and being a touch frail works toward an ideally balanced zoner, though there's some issues.

The three big things I'm concerned about are Forward Aerial, Down Smash, and the ability to indefinitely extend the duration of a Whirlpool with certain water-based moves. Whirlpool is still a heck of a thing to approach around, and if Cramorant is in Mouthful Mode, it needs to be engaged at an angle. Both are covered by approaching by air (which Cramorant isn't heavily built up to counter, good call), but that does mean characters with middling air games will have more problems, and Cramorant will be able to often force engagement on its terms due to Whirlpools blocking opposing projectiles just the same. The moves that extend Whirlpool are hardly low-commitment, but I'd recommend diminishing returns if it keeps extending the duration of the same Whirlpool, especially for the sake of preventing easy ledge guarding with it. Or maybe that's just me as a Little Mac main talking.

Forward Aerial's issue is pretty simple; it's too fast. Frame 12 isn't actually reactable as the set thinks, and while hardly setting records in comparison to melee moves, it's VERY fast for a projectile. Frame 19 is considered pretty good for a projectile, for an easy comparison point I only know about because it came up in voice chat a little while ago (to dispel the illusion I've at all improved with the hard numbers in the game). The high end lag is good for preventing spam as mentioned, but it does mean that Cramorant can be obnoxiously hard to get to behind its Whirlpool, hopping up to spew projectiles that'll drop foes into the Whirlpool.

Down Smash's pool of water worries me. Hitting foes into the pool and using tricks like Whirlpool, Surf, Forward Aerial, etc to keep them in there can leave opponents unable to retaliate for some time. I'd shorten the duration or potentially make it so that it'll despawn if the opponent leaves the pool to prevent Cramorant from just comboing them back into the water, though the latter might be too much of a debuff.

That out of the way, and before I start getting into a bunch of very tiny nitpicks, I want to establish I do actually like Cramorant. The set does a lot to work each move into playing with its specials and mechanic, and aside from the two concerns I mentioned does its best to keep Cramorant defensive and the Gulp Missile central to its playstyle without tipping over into unfun to play against. Like Kat mentioned, there's a clear appreciation of Cramorant between the presentation and writing, and the set is happy to be a little annoying to play against in a way that's kind of hilariously troll-y (or maybe it's the mental image I have of Cramorant's dopey bird face inspiring salt in its opponents) even with the balance checks. The melee is competently handled, and Mouthful Mode's push to make Cramorant more actively aggressive (serving both as a buff AND a subtle debuff to ensure it can't get away with just camping 24/7) is a nice touch, giving a little ebb and flow in its playstyle. Everything feels like it's conveying Cramorant's character well, everything goes together well, it's a good scene.

For some rapid-fire nitpicks: the list of potential Gulp Missile ammo and the % chance of them appearing doesn't add up to 100%? I think Down Special is meant to say "Not an entirely safe move," since it goes on to mention the end lag and blind spot in the same bullet point. Rapid Jab lists Grab as a potential follow-up, but Cramorant can't grab in Mouthful Mode when Rapid Jab is exclusively available. Do wish the non-Arrokuda Gulp Missile ammo got some more references, but it might be for the best that the set doesn't go over them all at every opportunity given the number/that the primary purpose of the mechanic is the same. I second Kat's concerns about the pool left by Down Smash.

I feel that Cramorant is overall a good set, and I came out of it appreciating the 'mon's existence a little more for it, even if it took me a little bit to get through it. Kudos!
 

Slavic

Ask not the sparrow how the eagle soars
Premium
Joined
Jun 5, 2013
Messages
736
Location
taco bell, probably
Cursola gang rise up, also one of my favorite Pokemon and one I didn't hesitate to use on my Shield team! Seeing a set for Cursola posted by A AwfulBeast is exciting for me just from a character perspective. First thing I want to say because it drove me crazy the entire time I was reading, "it's" should be used when you would say "it is" only, not for a possessive, that's just "its", you scallywag. With that out of the way, we can talk about Cursola! The set does a great job of getting the character across, an ethereal, almost sedentary ghost that slowly kills off the world around it as revenge for global climate change. The art is a nice touch to be sure, something we don't see that often in MYM (Dixie not withstanding). Do be wary about text contrast; the description of Perish Body is hard to read once the words overlap with the aura diagram. The love for the character comes through here, especially with little touches like the animations in the grab game.

Cursola reminds me very much of sets I've written earlier in my career, with the likes of Magcargo, Castform, and Hitmonchan, so I feel particularly poised to give advice here. The approach to the set is admirable, taking a few mechanics and tidbits about Cursola to build a set around, and filling the rest with animations that help drive the character forward (animations for Cursola would probably be tricky given the sluggish, stiff movements it has). To start with, we have Perish Body, Cursola's signature ability from Pokemon. It's a pretty direct translation here, emulating the instant death mechanic of Perish Song, but it could definitely do with some refining. As is, Perish Body gives foes a four second window to get away from Cursola after making direct contact with it, otherwise they take a large amount of damage and are instantly KO'd if above 120% damage.

MYM is no stranger to instant kill conditions, and this isn't the most offensive, but there are some issues with it that should be addressed. Having this instant-kill option gives a good place to build a set around, but Cursola's set is instead designed around not only limiting foes' movement but making the game unfun to play against. Lowering all speeds, including recovery speed, through ectoplasm while also trapping them with Whirlpool. It's a very harsh punishment for Cursola's opponents for simply playing the game, and while Perish Body's range is limited, Forward Smash is a decently fast Smash that dazes opponents, leaving them open for an instant-kill after getting smacked. It's not that Perish Body is an undefendable ability but more that it discourages counterplay outside of projectile spam, something Cursola likely has an issue with.

Another move which I think needs some major refining would be Down Special Spite. Locking a move from the foe is something that needs to be done with a lot of nuance, as sealing off the foe's recovery move for 10-15 seconds can be devastating. Cursola has this on a counter, and described as faster than all other counters which puts it as either frame 1 or 2, a bit faster than Incineroar's Revenge. All Cursola needs to do to win against a good number of fighters is get them offstage once before countering on their recovery, knocking them away a bit and sealing their recovery off. I'm certain this wasn't an intended use of the move but regardless can't be ignored.

Past those two big issues, I also want to address damage values, something which I know has been brought up already. This isn't the kind of set where damage hasn't been thought about, we do get those from time to time where there's just animations with no numbers. Obviously thought was put into the amount of damage each move did, so it shouldn't really be more of a stretch to just attach a number to it. Beyond the number crunching issues and the fact it helps with the clarity of ideas, it'll help smooth out writing. There's one point where a move is described as dealing 'three small damage hits that add up to medium damage', this is a really clunky way to describe the damage and would flow a lot better by just using exact numbers.

I definitely don't want this to come out as overly negative, I'm mostly trying to provide actionable advice to help showcase the things MYM values, and Cursola does have cool stuff in it still. I really like the interpretation of Shadow Ball here as a slow, transcendent projectile that can move in any direction. As I mentioned the animations are fun, in particular the throw animations are memorable, and it does show a love and care for the character. Cursola just has a handful of areas that should be reflected on to avoid making habits out of. Also, I pray I never have to read sets on Amino Apps in the future, that website scares me.
 

BrazilianGuy

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 10, 2022
Messages
9
Is it weird to say I loved The Nostalgia Critic? Regardless I definetly did love this one. I have watched a lil bit of NC's videos and got a few of the references, but overall I like that he attacks both with ways he did in the videos (like gun or crowbar) but also just random gags. I love how much silly stuff he has like his mocking N-air and Up Tilt, his Up Throw having a nerfed witch time, the down air in general and of course, being drunk. Is really cool how being drunk brings positives and negatives, it gives you a reason to want to do it despite the possible problems it could deal. His laughing taunt lasting for up to 10 seconds its also glorius and super in character. Overall a very nice read that I enjoyed from start to finish. Alcohol/10

The main thing to take from this set is the Neutral Special, at first Dash might seem like a complicated move but most of it's variations come rather naturally such as the stall and fall or the Rocket Star, also I never knew Wheelie's could throw nuts and bolts, but they add quite well to the set and make him a really unique pressure character. Also love me cargo throw~. The extras sections is incredibly well done with a ton of extras. never bad to have extras like that. The only real thing I didn't get was why the playstyle was after the moves, but that's more of a style choice so is not a problem or anything. I enjoyed this one quite a bit. Tire/10
 

ForwardArrow

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 17, 2011
Messages
477
Ilias
Not gonna lie, this set kinda knocked the wind out of me when it was first released. USUALLY when people walk into MYM with a franchise pick this uh. Bold. To clarify, I don't even mind it, and the set is 100% tasteful and basically entirely avoids the less than savory aspects of Monster Girl Quest, which seems to have been your goal when making it.

In all honesty, this set was actually a very smart choice of first set to post, because it immediately hits you in the face with a very strong impression. The Jab is immediately ludicrous, capable of a potential 40% heal and/or dealing 57%, the Down Tilt can hit the entire stage, Forward Tilt is a pretty unique feeling move that pulls foes towards Ilias in a very risky but potentially extremely potent manuever that leads into huge advantage states if foes don't respond properly. The set's immediately going into overdrive to sell you on the impact of everything between the gameplay applications and the over the top as hell animations, taking the final boss flare of a character like Sephiroth up to eleven. Its the kind of thing I'd hope for out of someone who's been making movesets, even if in a less viciously competitive environment than MYM, for a while, you know how to hook people on a set and I found myself engaged with what it was doing the entire way through.

And like, before I get to my complaints, which I have quite a lot of unfortunately and I hope you don't mind that, I think this set isn't JUST flash either. Some of the moves here feel pretty smartly designed, the mix of flaws and upsides to charging FTilt are quite cool. Dash Attack's got some huge power and can coat a lot of the stage in the pretty useful light effect, but you really have to land it up close to get the most out of it on a character with awful disadvantage and the duration/end lag is VERY punishable. The presence of moves like NSpecial, SSpecial, and Back Aerial give her some good openings to use all her powerful options by giving her a massive swath of projectiles to swoop in from behind, a frustrating projectile to keep the opponent on the back foot when out of range(potentially you can mix in DTilts too), and aerial mobility tools to line up the super big hitboxes of Uair and Nair. Up Special has exactly the flaws it needs to emphasize her extreme disadvantage state while still feeling exceptionally powerful. The set also is smart enough to know Ilias really does have all the power in the world already, and as such her "big reward" move in Down Special doesn't give her more of it, rather it cuts lag on her exhorbitantly powerful Forward and Up Smash and gives her Angel Minions she can summon that will remove her biggest weakness: how annoying it is to line up these ludicrously powerful attacks. There's real meat to this set and in spite of the stuff I'm about to complain about it, its got some strong consciousness of what this ridiculous playstyle would actually play like and manages to give it depth beyond mashing your big murder button.

So, to go into my issues with the set:

  • Jab's interesting in its many weaknesses as a hitbox but absurd potential rewards when you do land it, but I think it should not have 12 frames of end lag. The thing that makes Jigglypuff's Rest, the move I was comparing it to in my head a bit, as compelling as it is, is the fact that if you don't line up the difficult to line up move, you get a BRUTAL punishment. I don't think this move needs as extreme a downside as Rest does, but it has an FAF of 24 which means its not even really like... all that punishable overall? Which given it deals 57% under a not too hard condition and can potentially give Ilias a huge heal, I think it should have some more serious end lag problems, probably upwards of 30 frames of it at minimum. As is the risk is too little for the associated reward.
  • The grab is the actual biggest balance problem this set has amidst all those crazy moves. I don't mind Ilias having a fast, high range grab or very powerful throws but... both at once is a bit much. Mostly because when the grab is that good her playstyle will really boil down to fishing for grab when its so much faster than her other options, has higher reward than a lot of her other moves in practice with the combo BThrow and the potential of UThrow to set up USmash(at least I'd imagine it can, infinite range upwards hitbox while a foe's being dragged upwards in a pseudo-grab is some scary stuff). I'll be honest, maybe it goes against the spirit of the set, but she might work better with a more modest set of throws just to get the foe out of her hair outside of Rapture, and then once Rapture activates she gets all this power. Or her grab is as punishable as all her other stuff outside of Rapture but becomes the godly fast grab she has now once in it. Because frankly Rapture has an absurd enough set of rewards I think grab as is would be completely understandable in that context.
  • The hitstun you describe on Up Tilt/Up Aerial makes me a little worried that as they're currently written they can potentially infinite between each other, that's something you might want to make sure is addressed, either with a "you can only get enhanced holy hitstun 1-2 times in a row" clause or some other clarifications to prevent it from being a problem.
  • Down Aerial kinda skips on a lot of details with the way the light patches work with the move, and to be honest in a set with frame data for everything else I'd at least like to know the frame data on the Grab itself. Its not necessary for throws, but the grab itself should at least have the numbers visible I think for the sake of consistency.
  • I'm actually overall a fan of Rapture, its like a harder to fully utilize Wario Waft that gives a powerful but not completely unbeatable long duration buff instead, but you have to get 2 seconds to yourself to pull it off... which actually sounds kinda stressful for Ilias, she does need to decisively win a neutral exchange with its massive charge duration to go for it or she'll probably just lose it for the rest of the match. The reward for pulling that off is a minion summon with some well designed minions: Cupid giving her kill setups for her absolutely busted FSmash, Valkyrie letting her combo, and Ranael and Gnosis giving her powerful/completely ludicrous at a cost stage control respectively. But I... don't think the restriction with Eden on Gnosis is totally reasonable, even if I get why its there for flavor. Exactly timing it at 99 frames with no cue and a punishment of literally zero reward if you whiff it just seems like a needlessly frustrating mechanic when this summon is already gated behind every possible barrier in Ilias' moveset. At the same time... I admittedly don't have a fix that I think would keep the flavor of the current version in-tact and with how much of a corner case Gnosis' summon feels like in general, its probably the thing I can complain about I have the least to say about.
And I guess to wrap it up, to talk about a negative point that's not something that you can casually edit out and more something to keep in mind for future sets: I do think this set runs into a problem where it can be a bit one-dimensional and matchups are really landslide-y by nature. Rather than having an unconventional disadvantage/advantage state like some of the best superheavies in this genre, Ilias is either dominant over the pace of the match or in the process of dying with not as much in-between as I'd like. Its not a set without depth for the reasons I've stated, but I think the back and forth with the foe has less to it than I'd like.

I went on a while about that stuff, but like if I'm going into long strings of negatives about a set like this and I also say I like it(which I do), its because I see something very compelling there. This is an incredibly strong opening set, Han, and even made a pretty positive impression of the character for me when it was joked that I was going to be the one who's brain broke over this franchise getting sets. There's a lot of cool stuff here, and I think on top of that its also a very potent springboard into future sets for you as well. Looking forward to what you put out in MYM26 and beyond!
 

FrozenRoy

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
Messages
1,186
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
Switch FC
SW-1325-2408-7513
Sam Fisher's Price (Sam Fisher Rychu Rychu )

The start of this set gave me some big Claire Redfield vibes with how the ammunition on the guns works along with the trap canisters for gas and sticky stuff, but as the moveset went on it reminded me of an older style Make Your Move stuff but with modern sensibilites added on. Given you told me in private that this was in fact based on some older set ideas, it makes sense. I have to say it was unexpected to me, I was thinking this would be more straightforward as a shooter given I have little knowledge of Splinter Cell, but a welcome one all the same.

The core part of Sam Fisher is the subterfuge of his item specials, most prominently a canister of gas that not only deals light poison damage but steadily obscures the area it is placed and allows him to either place his C4-style Wall Bomb or the more proximity-based stickies, and the powerful options for guns that he has limited ammo for outside of his basic pistol and their own slew of unique strengths and weaknesses. The sniper rifle feels like an obvious fun one here, being a potent kill option to throw out for opponents caught in Sam's plans that has a big ol' blindspot he has to work around. But then he has the ability to cancel his starting lag as a mixup to get opponents to do the wrong move and punish it, which further gives Sam a "tactical" feel that is befitting his Splinter Cell origins. This all fits together with the fact that if he opens up opponents with Side Special, he can get a sudden and slick Execution kill as long as he keeps the pressure on with multiple hits.

Perhaps what is surprising afterwards is ways that Sam Fisher is both subdued and very much not. Subdued in that aside from his Smashes, a large portion of the set is dedicated to more direct melee and fighting with the projectiles and traps more as explosive rewards. Not subdued in that this set takes a lot of concepts, oft forgotten, and tries to do new stuff with them: Down Tilt is taking the old "background attack" ideas in the opposite direction in how it works, Down Aerial as a psuedo-command grab but only against grounded foes, Neutral Aerial doing the splits to hang out between platforms and walls (this is a Splinter Cell ability, apparently??), while not in the standards I want to point out the invisibility on the smoke felt a touch bold, the way Rappel works as well. I would say these almost always hit for me, Rappel in particular is a very fun element to Sam's game that feels like it'd have some crazy use on some of the more wild stages in addition to being a very unique edgeguarding tool.

An example of why I felt they worked for me would be Down Tilt. So, what was the problem with old "Background Hitting" attacks? The biggest and most obvious is the only time anyone in Smash is in the background for any notable amount of time is when dodging, during which they are intangible and thus immune to the background hitting attack to begin with. In Sam's case, this is irrelevant because the Down Tilt is itself instead doing a psuedo-background dodge WITHOUT intangible frames, essentially meaning it is a funky dodge state with a niche weaknesses. This gives a new element to Sam's neutral: What kind of attachs do you have that hit the background as an anti-Down Tilt? Maybe you're unhappy with your options and prefer instead to punish? Unlike old attacks which basically were just roll coverage attacks of questionable actual ability to work, this is adding some tactical thought to his dodge-and-punish portion. This set also has some wild animations, like Up Throw (which admittedly I am not sure about).

It did feel kind of odd Sam Fisher seems so fast to me, albeit I am not a character expert, at some points his lag feels Mario-esque which is not what I expected. His speed and coverage is balanced by his kill moves being either gated (Side Special, gun ammo) or difficult to land without high setup (his bombs) and the fact his actual combo game is pretty mediocre at best, meaning he is more about the sneaky hit and runs and there's a balance trade-off. I will say I always found Mega Man's Jab + F-Tilt + NAir combo wasteful and very annoying to play, but Sam's guns being much more useful helps alleviate a big reason why I dislike that. I will also say while I enjoyed Sam is wild, it left the set feeling a bit on a razor's edge to me: There's a lot of stuff I found acceptable but maybe a but worried (command grab DAir for example), which does mean other people's opinions might sway me. The edits to this set were helfupl as some of the stuff edited would have definitely cost points with me if it stuck around.

All of the Smashes are pretty nice (flash)bangers, although Forward Smash's stun does perhaps worry me with how the set works but is proooobably balanced fine given the restrictions, Down Smash was definitely my favorite (and a strong set ender) as I think the trickiness of it fits into both the set and what I saw of Sam's character and it feels like it has very cool playstyle applications. I'd also be remiss if I didn't mention really enjoying the organization, honestly one of the better recent examples of a kind of "character-centric writing style" I can think of with a cool visual side to boot, and that the Final Smash was very cool and felt like some great character expression. Would be a pop off in game. Junahu, I suspect, will enjoy this set. And overall I'd say I enjoyed it a lot too, I don't know if it'll be for everyone but alongside your other recent output I think it does continue to show that modern Rychu isn't a pushover (even if Whitebeard and Saul will most certainly do much better, as a 3rd-best-set I think it is pretty great). Good work, Rychu, maybe next contest we can get more volume from you too!
 

Arctic Tern

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 12, 2022
Messages
57
RUGAL BERNSTEIN (ThatGuyy)

The sheer number of these sets has kinda burned me out on doing extensive comments so for the rest of the FFC sets I’m gonna do bullet points.

  • Rugal is a hype choice, obviously. I actually have plans for Rugal myself, and I’m fairly sure you wouldn’t mind someone else tackling him.
  • I like the idea of the Specials, where they’re incredibly powerful but require meter, but I don’t really see how they’re more powerful than other Specials.
  • Did not expect God Rugal to show up! A very MYM take on the character, and I do like the choice between using his Specials or saving them up for his Specials/DMs.
  • Most of the set is serviceable. The moves have a clear purpose, but they’re pretty bare bones for the most part.
  • Overall, not the best set Rugal could have, but any set for him is highly appreciated.

TETSUTETSU TETSUTETSU (BrazilianGuy)

  • Solid core (no pun intended) in the NSpec, which gives Tetsu progressively stronger armor the more he charges.
  • Playstyle is quite fitting from what you describe of his character, using his armor to power through attacks to get in quick.
  • FTilt reflecting projectiles is a nice touch, since otherwise Tetsu would probably be camped out by projectile characters before he could get good armor up.
  • Most of the set is serviceable, but I did like how his Smashes were based on FGC moves to reflect his canon love of fighting games.
  • Decent enough set for the character, could definitely be improved but this is good for a very low priority character for a remake.

GORO MAJIMA (ThatGuyy)

  • Yakuza is a series I have little experience with, but from what I’ve seen of it it definitely looks like a series I’d love so Majima appeals to me.
  • The stances are decently well implemented, with each one managing to feel distinct from each other.
  • Also like how the USpec is consistent across all stances, thus giving them all a consistent means of recovery. This also goes for the throws, which give Majima some form of consistent spacing/combo/KO tools.
  • I have to say that there isn’t really a lot of “flow” between the stances (flow being how well a moveset’s parts connect together). This is kind of just a problem of the stance set in general but it is still there. One idea I’ve had is to have a bufferable stance switch, thus allowing the character to use moves from one stance to combo into moves from another.
ANNA (Daehypeels)

  • There was actually an Anna set back in MYM 14, but I’m kinda surprised we didn’t have another one at this point.
  • Gold mechanic is actually pretty neat! I particularly like how Anna can store some of her gold in a bag to strengthen some of her moves. The weapon upgrades seem fairly balanced, as well.
  • Jab and Down Smash are pretty weird inputs for such major status effects. That said, I do like the concept, especially Jab with its weight decrease. 8 seconds sounds a bit too long for the Silence effect to take place, though, since it decreases recovery.
  • The bow seems a bit too underutilized to be upgraded to the same extent as Anna’s sword.
  • UAir is kinda neat! I know you say it goes against Anna being bad at comboing but IMO she needs a combo tool to function and a tricky combo tool like this gives her that combo tool while being tricky enough to keep the intended weakness.
  • I’d say this is the best of the FFC sets I’ve read so far. You’ve said sometime in the past that you thought you were the standout of the community and reading this I can see why.

THE FARMER (ThatGuyy)

  • Having a character who fights entirely in a tractor is kinda funny.
  • I do like the upgrade mechanic, especially with how it comes with the tradeoff of the farmer having a bigger hitbox.
  • Smashes seem a bit too powerful to me, primarily the USmash due to being a projectile that could very well hit recovering foes.
  • Other than that, I have nothing to say except I appreciate this set for existing thanks to the novelty.

CREEPER (ComicWaterz)

Creeper moveset? Aw man…

  • This is inherently a tough character to do so making a stage control character out of Creeper is both impressive and fairly fitting considering it makes them afraid of it.
  • Like the mention of depositing opponents onto platforms where gunpowder is stored.
  • FTilt has a surprisingly MYM interaction with gunpowder!
  • DSpec is really powerful, and I feel it leans on overpowered given Creeper can potentially cover the whole stage in gunpowder (which boosts the range). The self damage does kinda mitigate this, though.
  • The animations where Creeper makes blocks erupt from the ground are kinda weird. Creepers aren’t known for being physically strong or heavy, so there’s no canon justification for it.
  • I do like this take on Creeper, but it’s a bit too strong for my taste.

See more comments and ratings on my personal page!
 
Last edited:

ForwardArrow

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 17, 2011
Messages
477
Akira
I swear so many of the sets this contest have a yellow-ish color scheme to their set somehow and are making me use a yellow or orange header. I'm trying to have color variety here, guys. Come on now.

More seriously, Akira's biggest issue is the balance of a couple of the status effects. Even if they're locked behind a charge meter, knocking a flat 1 point off movement scores and forcing the foe to turn away from you for 10 seconds is a pretty brutal set of effects. You describe the former as a big nerf to Mythra/Sonic-types but imagine poor Incineroar having to dash around at 0.18 dash speed. He's basically just dead at that point. Those two effects stood out to me as "things that need to be flat out replaced for this set to be even remotely enjoyable to play against", and I'll admit I found the rest of the set mostly... not particularly memorable. It wasn't bad outside those effects, but the rust and time limit clearly left you without an ability to do much with a mechanic beyond a pretty basic meter and some status effects on attacks that activate once the meter fills up. I think the most interesting aspect of the meter is that you get benefits from moving and the set generally helps/encourages you to move around a lot, which is a different type of way to gather meter than just the straight "damage the foe or take damage" that most sets take directly from Little Mac, but the set doesn't really go far enough with this mechanic for me to give it too much credit for that. Its something you could build on another time though.

Sorry to not say much about this one. I'm glad the set exists as Akira's gone without a set for 19 MYMs now, and as one of the more popular characters in the game its nice to see his abilities and mechanics represented in a way that feels pretty in-character in the modern context. And I do think the way the set is written and the applications of moves are described shows that you've retained a lot of the lessons you've hurt your earlier entries. Its much better you mess up a few balance things than lose the good habits you've developed.

Mad Dog
Here's another one I don't have a lot to say about, but fortunately in Mad Dog's case, its because its a set that's honestly pretty hard for me to argue with. The core concept of basing Mad Dog more heavily on the trapping aspect of Live-A-Live's Western chapter makes a lot of sense given it was his idea and he works very actively with Sundown Kid to make it happen, even brewing the means to make certain traps himself. In the set, Mad Dog's trap setting balances out the mindgame/guessing game aspects in a pretty solid way: you can basically break every trap before it activates if you're careful enough, provided Mad Dog isn't going to just poke you out of it, and provided you don't go for the worst option to deal with a given trap you usually have a chance to get out of the way before it gets you. It all feels very fair, but messes with the opponent's head enough to give Mad Dog the ability to make the opponent's life very difficult in their approach.

The rest of the set is where I'm a bit more at a loss for what to say, mostly because its just... solid stuff, with very few moves that stood out to me. Mad Dog's horse is a pretty well-done take on the Wario Bike that feels like an actually sensible way to include a horse in a moveset, and I think the set makes good use of his selection of in-game attacks and represents them in respectful ways that flow into the set. It never really feels like the set is straining hard to make a fitting move for the input, things all feel pretty natural and solid... I'll just admit its not throwing out stuff that I find really hypes me up aside from probably my favorite character in the game thus far(I haven't played a lot of LAL lmao, but Mad Dog's great) getting a set that has lots of solid little character bits throughout. I think that's what does, at least, elevate this set above Alolan Marowak for me as far as your JamCons go: its not wildly exciting in concept and execution but the rogue cowboy personality gives it something to carry it through and keep the reader interested. So, very solid work, I just wish I found myself remembering the set better by the time it came to comment it.

Apothecary Gary
I'll be honest, I'd rather come back to this when the set's actually finished to form a proper opinion, but since I'm supposed to comment it for the JamCon nomination stuff, I'll say a little: I think 4 Ice Climbers-esque characters sounds like a lot, but the fact that each one you bring out increases the already insane fragility of Gary makes me inclined to think it can probably be balanced fine. What's... probably not okay at the moment is how strong the spore nerf on the foe is. As written, it reduces their power to 0.3x per stack, which means fully stacked up the opponent has only 2.7% of their movement speed and attack damage, which basically means their stock is over, and frankly even 1 stack basically reduces them to the point their attacks and movement are completely ineffectual. Even at reducing their power to 0.7x per stack, that's still an extremely oppressive decrease to opponents stats with just one stack, let alone 3, and I think in general the spore mechanic on foes might want to either use much smaller numbers or get a rework. Putting your frogs around the stage to distribute your Ice Climber-style attacks all over the place is a reasonably fun mechanic, but its kind of hard for me to say about how it plays out with the set in the incomplete state its in. Mostly, I think if you want this set to have a shot at succeeding, you probably need to nerf the spores a very large amount. Good luck on the full set, anyhow.

Giganotosaurus
This set's kind of an interesting case, because it feels like an attempt to create another fever dream of a set in the style of Tumble. And if nothing else, its certainly a surreal moveset, creating an atmosphere of absurdity as every input section turns the set more chaotic, more over-the-top, and less actually dinosaur related as by the end we're just summoning Morbius for the grab game. And admittedly, its pretty funny to see things like the "real" version of Buzz Lightyear still represented as toy-sized, the sheer ridiculousness of Giganotosaurus spawning a ladder that, specifically, has a cage which defends against it, and also just this ridiculous creature climbing a ladder in and of itself. Plus its abundantly clear you know absolutely nothing about Morbius, which honestly is the best way to represent Morbius in a moveset. There's definitely some humor to be had here, I wouldn't agree with Junahu that the set isn't funny... its more that its not CONSISTENTLY funny is the problem.

Because, evaluating this as a jokeset, and we kind of have to because the moment you evaluate it as a serious set you have to consider how the air game would work in practice and it immediately becomes a 1/10 set. The fact that this absolutely gigantic character has no aerials aside from the tiny fly Buzzing around her disjointed from her hitbox that's pretty easy to dispose of basically means the moment Giga goes into the air everything goes to hell and the set is basically unplayable. I'm not actually as upset about the way the Smashes and Grabs work by comparison, I think that gimmick Smashes can work as long as they're covered by other moves in the set and these at least still have a hitbox, and a weird grab can be compensated for in other ways as attested to by the fact that Smash 4 Pac-Man isn't unplayable garbage despite that monstrosity of a grab, but the air game is pretty inexcusable. A small part of me was wondering as I read this moveset if maybe the Tornado from Twister would've made for a better air game as at least that would, presumably, be attached to Giga's body and could maximize on all Giga's constructs and allies by flinging them about the stage. Before you say "well Dutch Boy already shoots tornadoes I couldn't do that", you make a point, but I still have to feel like it would've worked out better than Buzz Lightyear... although I guess Buzz is funnier which feeds into the next point.

The set kind of runs into the problem that its not really as funny as I'd have expected a Jokersaurus set to be, and its not because the set isn't suitably ridiculous, it absolutely is. Its more... you can only throw out so many MYM details and interactions between everything before the joke of all these weird disparate elements interacting wears off and you're just reading text that contributes to an attempt at seriousness which inherently fails because of Buzz Lightyear's mere existence. So the set ends up devoting a lot of its massive word count to being weirdly... technical, which doesn't work if you're trying to go for a Tumble-esque blend of humor and "you could actually play this in a game", because it ends up taking away from the joke when you're going on so long about the technical aspects of this ridiculous thing you made the set do. I don't think the set is totally lacking in humor or anything, I was having fun reading it, but I couldn't help but find myself unengaged when the set's going on about 5 dinosaur interactions on a Fair when I already know the set's not going to work. That's really not where you want to be on a joke or pseudo-joke set, you have to be punchier than that. Also I'm realizing this entire comment is just me picking on Buzz Lightyear. And to be honest he deserves it because he genuinely feels like he screws up the flow of the entire moveset.

For what its worth, there are things here I like, and not just from a "well the Dutch Boy satellite from Geostorm being here is hilarious". I actually find Dutch Boy's role in the whole set kind of interesting, picking a "climate" for your entire setup to operate in and changing it to a more aggressive, temporary setup, or a slower paced, more defensive setup is pretty interesting even if I wish it didn't happen every time I just wanted to use a Smash attack. There's totally ways to do this mechanic better and to be honest I think I'd be interested if you took another shot at this stuff. I also feel like the dinosaur minion tilts are probably the most genuinely interesting part of the set, you clearly put effort into bringing each of these dinos to life for exactly one attack and there is some real work in making their one attack per dinosaur interesting and nuanced. Which is weird for a set this chaotic and non-sensical, but it makes it easy to see you love the Jurassic Park dinos genuinely. I'd also say that this set is just such a weird experience that, despite all my dunking on Buzz Lightyear, I think it warrants a really unique spot in MYM and is worth reading and talking about for that reason alone, it was impossible for me to forget about the set after reading it and to be honest I kind of am glad it all lined up in exactly the way it did. The set kind of stretches the bounds of where joke and serious set intersect, gives a look into the nature of man, beast, consumerism, and society, and really shows just how cutting loose and not caring about where a set will place can put out some really just... unique, even if flawed experiences. Thank you for this set Slavic. Its absolutely awful but the contest wouldn't be the same without it.

My incredibly late nomination goes to The King of Sorrow by FrozenRoy.
 
Last edited:

UserShadow7989

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
279
Hat Kid by Slavic Slavic

Appreciate the shout out in Neutral Special! Hat Kid is a fun little rushdown character with a solid (if brief) advantage state and good neutral but vulnerable disadvantage, with all sorts of little tricks that make her stand out from the crowd in her Specials and her namesake Hats, as well as the creative Throws that close out the set. Despite her eclectic power set, everything here gels well together in terms of flavor (helped by the writing showing off her troll-y personality well) and function. Her mobility tools are a lot of fun to think about using, allowing her to zip around and re-engage quickly each time she bats a foe away with a combo finisher.

Her fundamentals are well developed underneath the flashy effects and abilities, written in a way that makes reading through and remembering them a breeze and scarcely losing sight of how it all comes together. She can seize control of a fight well enough and get her licks in, but her combo strings are truncated and fall off as her opponent nears the end. While not lacking in KO options like Sheik, she lacks proper kill confirms that would make finishing the job easy for her, and her combo strings tend to be flashy but short-lived- which feels appropriate for Hat Kid, being a little flighty and quick to find something else interesting to do.

Aside from a small slip up in Up Aerial claiming Hat Kid focuses on recovering high when it's previously established that her tools will cause her to recover low more often than not, there's not a whole lot I can critique in the set. It doesn't have anything truly mind-bending, but it's yet another solid set in 25's massive library of solid sets (RV and WV sections on people's voting lists are gonna be bloodbaths, there's no doubt). An excellent finish to a good contest!
 

ForwardArrow

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 17, 2011
Messages
477
Mima
So this is an interesting one because it allowed me to see how your sets work when you're not doing a giant passion project with a single-minded focus like Ilias was, which may not be the most clear view as to your setmaking. Mima seems to be one of the sets you're most proud of, I get a greater feeling of confidence in this set than you did Ilias when you talk about it and... I apologize if that's gonna make this comment sting a bit because I had very big issues with this one. With that said, I can certainly see the perspective of this set being your best, in part because of how well it works in FFC specifically. Mima's got a clear "gimmick" that her gameplan is extremely centralized around in her meter mechanic, which her recovery, shield, and dodges are all locked behind on top of multiple standards/aerials/smashes and most of her Specials. Its a pretty fragile mechanic too, interrupting her can SERIOUSLY mess with the meter's potency. The rewards, of course, are an absurd shield/dodges/recovery in exchange for all that, and some pretty ludicrous meter payoffs like Up Smash and Side Special. I actually, genuinely do like how snappy the meter feels to use, there's nothing wishy-washy about the benefits here. You use a move with meter you will get what you pay for every time with highly potent effects, some of which I honestly find pretty cool like enhancing Mima's moves if she pulls off Down Special with meter, recontextualizing her grab game and Down Tilt in the air via Up Special, and the 2 frame Up Smash that deals like 30% and has massive KO potential + invincibility frames on top of that in exchange for a ton of meter.

I think this stuff is fun to talk about an individual matcuhp for because it gives a clear, centralizing factor not seen in any Smash set in the game, and doesn't get too complicated so talking about the specifics of it won't take hours of parsing through or require you to skim over some details and just kinda hope the matchup works out. In a tournament bracket of sets fighting each other, this'd be a fun one to talk about, so in regards to the community it was made for I'd say it was a pretty big success. I don't want to take that away from you.

However, I don't really think this works in MYM as well, and the reason's pretty simple: Mima's "seesaw balance" that I complained about in Ilias is, somehow, more extreme than Ilias' in my eyes. I mentioned how good those shields and dodges are, they're completely nuts and make it incredibly hard to fight Mima... until her meter's down, for one reason or another. Then the dynamic of the matches shifts on a dime and there's not really a lot she can do, with holes in her kit like a missing Uair, Dash Attack, and USmash and basically dying the second you get her off stage without a real recovery. Its honestly just overcentralized in a way that I think wouldn't be fun, because one moment the opponent's not really able to do anything to her until her resources are out because of just how strong her shield and dodges are. Then she's out those options and barring good use of her absurd Nair and Grab she's probably done for. With how swingy everything feels, I get the impression that Mima's playstyle is not as versatile as advertised, because when her meter is so woven into using options that are basic fundamentals for any Smash character, it probably becomes the clear best option to focus on those fundamentals and not spend her meter elsewhere, especially when her Grab and Nair are such good moves without any help from the meter. Seriously her throws all deal like 16%+ with big upside on top of that, I feel like this character would end up spamming grab way, way too much as things are right now.

When a set like this is approached in MYM, usually stuff that messes with fundamental mechanics like dodges/shields/recovery is a bit more of an "opt in" kind of deal so the character can, potentially, play without worrying about collapsing the moment the meter runs out at all time. I think stuff like Mima's Up Smash is cool, and it'd be a lot cooler if it wasn't the ONLY option she had for her Up Smash to blow almost her entire meter on a ridiculously risky maneuver, if that makes sense. Extreme conditional power is really fun, you've got that part down, but I think it makes the balance of sets play out much better if the player isn't forced into it at all times, lest the set end up pathetic or unfair off simple factors like "how strong is the Nair". Like ATM I think Mima is really strong but if you brought her Nair/Grab down to regular Smash character levels she'd be possibly the worst character in the game, and in either case her exchanges would probably be more one-sided in terms of how they play out than Ganondorf and possibly even Ilias. I think giving the player some input on if they want to go for this high risk stuff or not just makes for better set design for everyone involved. But I don't think your pride in this set is misplaced, it has a lot of cool ideas and ambitions that shine particularly well in a bracket-style theory tournament... just probably not when put into the game outside that one theory tournament, unfortunately.

Regigigas
People have already talked about the easy problems to point out here. The lack of damage percents for context is definitely something worth addressing in future sets and even in edits to this one, and the writing spends a lot of time talking about theory and not actually discussing how the set works. I feel once you get into the actual set the move writeups are clear enough on how Regigigas plays and the advantages/disadvantages of each attack, its not SO conversational it messes with things, but I do think maybe it should be written with a tad more confidence where you assert each move WILL do X. I mean, maybe it wouldn't in practice, but that's for the reader to decipher, its best if the set itself states "this will work" if you think it will, generally speaking. And you can always ask around if you're really that unsure. I do think its neat to get some insight into what you were thinking when designing the set, its just this feels like something to add in a like, author's notes section separated from the important functions of the move, I think Walkure's a good example of how to do that if you want to do something like that.

As for the set itself, this is another really extreme feeling superheavy, maybe I'm just getting a lot of those because of my particular choices of set to read from FFC... or maybe they're just interesting to talk about balancing and that gravitates part of the FFC community towards them. And for what its worth, I do like some of Regigigas' approach to this, as while he takes a long time to get going, the set does its best to force opponents to respect his space as hard as they can. The massive space covered by Jab/DSmash/USmash/Nair, how dangerous he gets once both parties are near a ledge, and the sheer amount of threatening options he can do to a shielding foe with Dash Attack/FTilt give him some pretty unreal pressure once Slow Start ends. I'm a little unsure how I feel about a character being so dependent on the number of stocks/duration of a given match, I know Wario Waft is already a thing but it feels like Regigigas' mechanic is far more important to get online than for Wario to fire off the one big Waft, given it changes his entire set for the better. But I do like the set's insistence on forcing the foe to respect Regigigas' space, giving him a good combo break tool in Nair to save him from being completely destroyed while Slow Start is up alongside his other zoning/defensive tools, and the combination of mixups and raw power he has to make him a real menace once his full power is finally unleashed.

With that said, there's a couple elements of this set's design I find a bit contradictory. You talk about how Regigigas hates dealing with foes above him, then you give him this gigantic ranged Up Smash with enormous power and duration so that its hard to even air dodge around that comes out on Frame 12. A LOT of Regigigas' power is focused in this one move and it, if anything, kinda makes me think he's actually pretty good at dealing with opponents above him off the back of literally just this one attack. Its that good. Its also weird to me how a lot of his zoning/space respecting tools just... aren't all that effective before Slow Start comes online? He'd really appreciate something like Down Smash before its active, even in a reduced power form, to force opponents to respect his space and run out the timer on Slow Start a bit. But instead he ends up feeling pretty limited on his tools to deal with opponents during Slow Start, and that kind of leads into the fact that, well...

I don't think this set is very viable. Regigigas' fast options are limited to Jab and moves that are hideously punishable in Up Smash and Nair, as good as the other qualities of those moves are. The set stresses how slow basically all his inputs are without really giving him a solution to that problem other than hoping the range is enough, and with how much Smash heavies usually struggle, it probably isn't. Mind you, I think post-Slow Start he's got enough crazy stuff to at least be functional and decent, its more that the period you're dealing with before Slow Start ends is so awful that I feel he's going to be too far behind by the time he's got it deactivated its probably already too late. This is compounded by the fact that his recovery is really, really bad. Giga Impact feels right for the character flavor-wise, don't get me wrong, but needing to charge a full second to so much as match Captain Falcon's Up Special is so laughably bad alongside an incredibly high fall speed that waiting it out for Slow Start is probably even less viable when foes are just gimping you left and right the second you go off a ledge. Mind you, this kind of extreme heavy, especially one with a debilitating weakness like Slow Start, is a very hard feat to balance and you made some interesting moves to help get it there, I just think the set can't cover enough weaknesses to not end up getting horribly exploited in almost every matchup.

For what its worth, I'm being this critical because, like with Han, I think you and a lot of the other FFC people already kinda "get" the basics of making an interesting playstyle. You actually talk about neutral/shield pressure/edgeguarding/whatnot in a reasonably compelling way in some parts of this set, and are willing to make some pretty fun moves here and there which, while maybe not quite as advanced as some of the stuff made by people in MYM for a long time, are still compelling. There's stuff you're going to need to change in your style to be competitive in MYM, but honestly, you've got a lot of the stuff you need already, and I've been pretty impressed by the bank of pre-existing knowledge a lot of the FFC sets seem to already be making good use of.
 
Last edited:

n88

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 10, 2008
Messages
1,481
Mao by Junahu Junahu

Admirable build-your-own-Mao sort of approach here in how the Magichange attacks and stat boosts let you mess around with Mao’s capabilities while still keeping the core of the set pretty simple. I haven’t played any Disgaea games, but it feels like the approach squares well with the max-maxing/free-form strategy stuff you bring up in the set. The take reminds me of Jodie Reynolds a bit, though with a very different design philosophy. I wouldn’t call it a sandbox, exactly, but there’s a similar sort of appeal to it that rewards customizing your kit to the situation.

Interesting take on a set with permanent changes, too - that’s always a hard thing to manage with Smash’s wildly variable pacing across modes and stock counts. The set winks at that difficulty in the playstyle section, but this is a pretty manageable version of a permanent debuff concept. The fact that it’s engineered to have the flow it does (avoid NSpec -> go in on NSpec -> burn hearts if you need to get scrappy in the endgame) means that there’s inherently some flex in how soon you make those transitions.

It probably goes without saying, but hey, may as well say the obvious nice thing out loud: you’re really in a league of your own as far as presentation is concerned. At the basic presentation-of-information level I think there’re a lot of good subtle style points here that are likely to influence how I write in the future, and the visual flair on top of all that is superb. The art for each attack is something I really wish I had the skill to mimic; beyond the obvious utility for communication and the visual appeal of having something to break up text, there’s some great comedy and tone-setting in those images that adds to the set’s fun. I got a kick out of the DSpec one in particular - love the facial expressions there.

I’ve always been peripherally aware of Disgaea as “that penguin game Junahu likes” (I continued to think of it in these terms even after being away from MYM for some years) but Mao really made me want to check it out. The set succeeds at pulling the reader in and sharing a lot about Disgaea without ever feeling like an info dump, which is a tough trick and really commendable.

Stray thoughts:
  • Does Geoffrey just fall (possibly to his death) after Up Special? Up Special generally feels a bit under-detailed, between this critical piece of missing info and some of the advantages of the cancel not coming up much later in the set.
    • I guess the meta explanation is that Geoffrey wrote this and is downplaying his role.
  • Surprising amount of control complexity in some of the spear stuff (and even more-so in the option to do the fake-out jump-SSpec, though that’s not exactly critical-path). The up-angled Down Tilt hit me a little weirdly at first, but I don’t think it’s such a big deal.
  • Hero(?) Prinny by Junahu Junahu
    • “It's threes all the way down, baby!” - ah yes, this must be the rule of threes I keep hearing about.
    • I like keeping MYM5 Hero Prinny’s choice to mix something as prominent as a dash attack in with the situationals (even though you didn’t go quite so far as to put Jab there).
      • Man, seeing situationals brings me back.
    • I was wondering just before getting to Dash Attack if Prinny would actually have scarf attacks other than USpec. Dash Attack is a smart place to put something like that if you’re only gonna do it in one or two places, to give it a little extra weight as a ‘missing’ attack.
    • “Here's a picture of Hero Prinny's crouch.” - excellent, thank you.
    • Really got a kick out of Hero Prinny as a joke character. Admittedly, ‘silly underpowered generic character’ is very much my bs so perhaps this is bias.
    • Marjoly by Junahu Junahu
      • “It should be obvious why Marjoly would want a skull entourage with her, even without me telling you what they actually do.” - not really, but I’m prepared to trust for now that this is a good thing! It’ll at least look cool!
      • Really dig the way the skulls are used to subtly cool effects in the standards - Jab and Down Tilt are particularly slick moves that are fun to envision.
      • And the set really immediately pays that off with the Smashes having flashier effects around them. I think it was a good choice to put the standards/smashes in front of the Specials here and get some of the skull set-up before digging into the skull pay-off.
      • Man, USpec’s infinite range + dodge/shield teleport effects feel like they’re right outta Old MYM. Bold play. I do love the vindictiveness of an Up Special that puts the foe into helpless when it’s whiffed, but it feels a little weird for it to hit through i-frames like that… might be cleaner if it was just a second hit that happened a bit after the first one so that it would be very tough to dodge both.
      • The skull stuff in this set kicks ass, I love it. Neutral Special is delightful, probably one of my favorite moves in any set.
      • I do think unfortunately some of the other concepts in her Specials feel a little disconnected from the rest of what’s going on with her? Beyond just giving her some tools that let her operate without disrupting skull set-up anyway. It’s a shame because this set’s strong points are really strong.
      • RIP RFK
      • “If you're wondering why I specifically said that Marjoly's sadist pummel deals damage.. why not read Anne Elmtod's pummel? “ - hoo boy.
  • “Don't bring your stupid house rules into this!” - Saul Goodman assures me I have rights and I’ll take the money from the center of the stage, thank you.
  • I appreciate the nuttiness of Chara World - the block effects feel like they’d be too much to really keep track of moment-to-moment if there were anything more complicated than itemless 1v1 going on. The Warp Gate mechanic is dang cool though.
  • Almaz von Almandine Adamant by Junahu Junahu
    • Putting the loss animation before the victory animations is a great subtle character touch (amid some less subtle character touches, admittedly).
    • Hitgrab-as-stance-transition is a cool mechanic to build around. I like that it kinda ‘rhymes’ with Mao planting hearts on people.
    • Really respect the willingness to write stuff in-character; I always get extremely fussy about that sort of thing and usually just steer clear of it as a result. Interesting challenge to take on.
    • I like the set playing around with the my-set/our-set dynamic - fun and something it’s uniquely positioned to do with the first-person perspective. I always feel bad about the idea of demoting a character to the “duo set partner” role.
    • I wasn’t as immediately into Almaz as the other sets here - it grew on me toward the end, but it didn’t get my brain turning over like Marjoly did. And as much as I respect the character-perspective, I did miss your usual writing style here.
    • I think he’s probably the best-developed of the supplemental movesets but he can feel a bit dry at times, which I didn’t really expect from the in-character one. Maybe a result of the character’s voice not being excited about himself?
  • Bailing out of the match to show up as an Up Taunting loser on the results screen is maybe my favorite chaotic item concept.
  • “if you kill him he'll turn into a slightly more useful Beam Sword.” - you also get a point for killing your own Assist Trophy so that’s a pretty good deal.
  • Asagi Asagiri by Junahu Junahu
    • Alliterative appellations abound.
    • Neutral/Down Special/Jab have some fun gun mechanics. Feels inspired by Smash’s shooty types, but very distinct. I like the manual reload in particular.
      • Can she DSpecial roll in the air?
    • The human suffering line really got me.
    • I don’t remember the last time my perception of a character was changed so dramatically by an Up Special. The tether aspect of Up Special definitely feels like an after-thought, but it’s funny. A bit out of place with the general stylishness of the set though. At least she's got the multi-jump as a better recovery for cool factor.
    • Dash Attack is slick - just from the sprite it’s clear how that’s gonna play out and it’s really fun to envision. I was immediately imagining it crossing up shields.
    • The hard landing/Down Smash interaction is great, really fun way to weaponize empty jumps and mix up her landings.
    • RIP GFK?
    • This set could be more cohesive and fleshed out, but I think it succeeds at its main mission of being a simple moveset with attacks that look really cool and also a weird Up Smash.
      • Or at least that’s my read on what it’s trying to do.
  • I did admittedly start skimming once I got to the character-specific attacks in Baal, but I’d read a lot of the later bits when the set was first posted. I've got like 100 sets to read so I will probably put a pin in the remaining extras for now and plan to return later.

Hat Kid by Slavic Slavic

Really well-developed melee game for a zippy li’l character. The set’s focus on mobility feels right for a platformer. I haven’t played A Hat In Time, but I assume it’s not one of those campy platformers anyway. The set feels kinda bizarro-world-Mario, in a good way. FSpec is a really cool signature mobility tool and I love how the set makes a move like that so important in the gameplan.

I was expecting a lot more hat-centric moves when the stats section teed up the hat-switching mechanic (I was perhaps primed to expect this by the character being named after hats), but the set did end up being pretty restrained about it. From a playability perspective I think that’s a sharp choice, letting you lean on most of her kit without busting up your current hat/mask. I’m not 100% sure how I feel about ‘reduced startlag for having recently used the same move’ as a mechanic, though. It’s an incentive to use attacks repetitively that I'm not sure is great gameplay wise? On the other hand, maybe it’s fitting since the character seems puckish. Much like Byleth, DSpecial-only is obviously the Hat Kid FFA strat. It's a soft enough influence on Hat Kid's behavior that I don't think it's really a problem, but it's an idea that made me have a long think about whether or not I liked it. Generally that left me enjoying the other carry-over effects (weight boost, mobility boost, etc.) that come from hat-switching more than the move-specific boosts.

Stray thoughts:
  • Odd tidbit from the stats/mechanics: why doesn’tswitching hats appear to increase the start-up on attacks? Having a clear visual indicator would make the mechanic easier for newbies to pick up.
    • Dash Attack at least sounds like it actually does have a visual difference.
  • “acting more like Joker’s grounded grappling hook!” - though they’re both combo tools, the way this move works is pretty different from Joker’s hook.
  • USpec claims she can’t recover low in one of the later paragraphs before the Dweller Mask, which goes a bit against what the set established earlier.
    • Masks is hats?
  • The DSpec footnote ending on the insane claim that this is all in service of limiting word count got me.
  • The big laser feels so puny next to the “use an umbrella” attack! I guess FSmash is offsetting its big hitbox, but dang.
  • Up Smash description could probably be tightened up a little? There are like three paragraphs in a row that are mostly about UTilting and USmashing back and forth. Which is kind of a meta way to write about two moves that combo into each other, I guess.
  • “It’s the hottest fighting game move of the Nintendo Switch generation! You’ve seen crocodiles, space pirates, and professional wrestling tigers do it, now here’s a kid in a hat! “ - is it a final smash where she blows up her enemy’s house? (I don’t remember Incineroar’s final smash but I assume it’s that)
  • “the stocks taken by this move are very real.” - now I’m imagining an Old MYM version of this set where they’re not.
  • I was a little confused by UThrow as I was reading mainly because the spectral-reveal is unconditional, unlike the prior throw.
  • “for appropriate characters, like Peach or Isabelle, they will play pattycake back with Hat Kid!” - aha, Venom Deadpool needs an update.
  • Interesting that she effectively never wants to have the normal hat on. No idea how well that reps the source material, but I trust it’s a sensible choice. Always interesting to me when the character kinda doesn’t want to do the iconic thing/have the iconic appearance though.
 
Last edited:

BrazilianGuy

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 10, 2022
Messages
9
Akechi is one of my favorite characters in Persona 5, is nice to see him get a set. I like your interpretation of how a Persona user could work in Smash, and it particularly really fits him due to his nature as a more intelectual character. Speaking of moves that fit the character, Akechi Side B suits him so well, is a very unconventional counter attack, I like how he doesn't just counter a move which would probably be easier for him, almost like he is holding back while also preparing your demise, this just fits Akechi so much and I love it. I also love how much extra this set has, I loved his alts and Im glad that the delicious pancakes got to make a cameo as a spirit. Overall I also really liked moves such as F-Tilt due to how extra it feels, I like how both Up air and Up special involve skewering and his gun feels more in line with how it is in P5, I also read this set while tired so at a first glance I thought his gun was called Morbius and got really shook all of a sudden, but allas. Delicious Pancakes/10


 
Top Bottom