Make Your Move 21: The Moveset Design Contest | Submission Period Ends; Reading / Voting Time Starts Now!

Smash Daddy

Smash Master
Apr 29, 2007
K Rool Avenue
As the other big Kinnikuman fan in Make Your Move, I was naturally excited to read The Mountain! This is the most stereotypical heavyweight villain, he is pretty much a living boulder. I could immediately see why you chose to remake this upon seeing the Ghost form, though even the small reference to Giga Bowser’s melee weight and its effect on combos was immediately fun. The Ghost works in a simple but fun way, doubling up your potential to take damage while giving many double purposes to various moves. I do think making the foe mash out of Mountain’s corpse as it falls on side special should be changed, but besides that, it’s hard to fault the set at all up to smashes. The down smash is easily my favourite move in the set and whenever the ghost Mountain and the “corpse” interact; it’s always great, whether on side special, dsmash or the back throw. I also really like the fsmash and wish it had more of a central role, this could easily be the foundation of the set working similarly to the most recent Sloth set where you rely on boulders rolling back as a hitbox.

There is one move that I really do not like in this set and I can imagine you know the move. The fthrow gives the ghost intangibility for 5 seconds, the basic fthrow as a result is very dry. The effect allows Ghost Mountain to stand on top of regular Mountain and throw out hitboxes that can't be challenged at worst, and at best he goes on an insane offensive where Ghost Mountain has a Star Man. This simply needs to be changed.

I did not like the dtilt either, the Ghost version specifically. I like the flipper hitbox of the regular version but I do not like Ghost Mountain attacking through the ledge or dropping his entire body into the stage on demand. This would be a very cheap ledge guard and this Ghost crouch in general doesn't seem to take into account how it works on platforms. Does his entire body poke through as dtilt implies, giving him a massive hurtbox underneath? Or does he turn into a tiny hurtbox unless he uses dtilt? I'd be happy if this crouch was at least banned on platforms and that would probably be the easiest solution.

There were some moves that I thought were strangely weak for The Mountain that tried to bring in a combo focus. The utilt, bair and uthrow all have pretty forced animations to make them combo moves and I do not like being forced to blow meter on the uthrow to enable combos, or uthrow much in general. It would help the set if these were given quick changes to instead make these moves either focus totally on combos (uair could be a general launcher and not rely on the sourspot) or power moves (bair/possibly uthrow would be a lot more fitting that way).

I did end up spending most of the comment going over the negatives, but that's only covering a small portion of the set. This set could definitely go places if you wanted to jump back in, though as it is, the only move that really needs to change is the fthrow. That and at least clarifying what the Ghost crouch does on platforms, not exactly a time consuming edit. After that the other suggestions are up to you, as it's still good beyond those two specific complaints. Overall, can’t fault much else here! Great job Warlord.

As I was one of the two who gave behind-the-scenes feedback on PlanetMan.EXE, only fair I give a comment on what I think after the edits. I do appreciate all the edits you made to the utilt, the bair, the dsmash and various other changes. This included a wholly new uthrow, and I never even directly suggested giving a little extra to the down throw effect, which was a great idea. The original set had some pretty specific issues in these moves where PME was a bit forced and stilted between interaction/core moves, but this was alleviated greatly by editing the animations.

Now that all that is sorted out, the core of the set just feels far more consistent. At the same time I do have a few lingering problems that keep it from being among my favourites from you, and in case I somehow fail to get around to commenting it, I'd say Idella is my favourite of yours currently before I read Rime Marz. My problem is mostly characterisation. I don't get a good sense of if PME is particularly sadistic, funny or serious from his attacks, playstyle or animations. This might be something else for you to improve on, for example in the utilt when you say it's PME ordering his planets to "act" - this would be an opportunity to say if PME is an actual boss of the planets, or just kind of crazy and humanizes these constructs. I do wonder if BN itself is why because it doesn't exactly give huge depth to the RMs, in which case you may have to basically invent a personality, I don't mind what it is. Some flavour text on the animations would truly go a long way.

Honestly beyond that complaint, which is admittedly a little nebulous, I also found it hard to pin down a strong playstyle in this set. He creates the planets, a cool gimmick, and he plays around the spacing of the planets, it's a typical stage control set. It's executed well but it felt like it was missing a core idea to really elevate it beyond a fairly simplistic playstyle. As an example, I didn't feel that the planets and their exact type mattered that much after being a massively long, fairly excellent special. Couldn't his dsmash and other moves have unique interactions? Then he could have a different reaction or another bit of flavour, or thereabouts. Overall I definitely like the set and it's vastly improved so I don't expect you to go to such lengths on my behalf. Even if you only made some flavour changes it would be very worthwhile in my opinion for the set's quality.

Poliwag I commented on before and I had to delete my comment after discussing it in private with the set creator, all that can be salvaged from it is my hope you make Poliwhirl and especially Poliwrath… and maybe Politoed, as much as I dislike that design. This set now has a nice balance of a counter in Belly Drum that then powers up various moves; significantly the fsmash for offence and the core was already strong due to the aerials. These aerials are reminiscent of Squirtle or Pichu as combo-centric moves to bridge the gap to his weaker smashes. It then makes a lot of sense how the Belly Drum interacts in the KO moves later to help bring down the difficulty Poliwag logically would have to KO and the playstyle is made stronger by your buffs to the aerials/the addition of various new KO options. All in all, the playstyle here is neatly packaged and well done, and I like much of the characterisation too. It’s just a solid all around moveset.

I will say that as a general criticism not entirely directed at this set I am not sure of the use of a counter as a central buff. In Poliwag you do at least now have plenty of strengths on the counter like a very low end lag, a generous duration, Gut Check’s reflector capability and its power is well managed. On the other hand, needing to land a counter to accomplish things is not fun for the player. The set isn’t hugely UP when Belly Drum is not in use, and in fact does a good job making Poliwag seem UP without being laughably UP, but nevertheless it does restrict the character when these fun interactions and what bridges the playstyle together is locked behind a counter. This is simply not something we’re going to agree on though and that is okay, the set is still good even if I don’t like this aspect. I personally would have given a very laggy option to do Belly Drum without needing the counter.

Darmuk was a trip down memory lane seeing as I was once a reader of Homestuck. It really nails the writing style and feel of the web comic, it's pretty uncanny and I can't help but say, almost more fun than it was reading huge portions of Homestuck. On that note, the characterisation was also your best. The set is fairly dry after the specials but it does get across the point that Darmuk largely fights on the fly and his moveset naturally adapts to his chosen weapon. A weapon switch is not easy and this set definitely suffers a little for having to break many moves up, but you obviously went the extra mile too. It shows in how much longer this is than your other sets.

The overall playstyle is at its best when making use of the great Captchalogue mechanic. I do wish the set created more of its own projectiles or had another way to add items to the log, as currently it feels a little slow to be able to do that, and the faster that Darmuk can fill up the inventory the better. It's a very cool idea however and just having it available would be an interesting bit of pressure, but it could equally have some more interesting ways to experiment in there. For example an item that takes up two slots, or playing with the way slots are filled or extinguished in general would be a welcome addition.

My criticism of the set largely comes down to the grab game and some big redundancy issues. The throws are not very interesting at all, even if they are functionally alright. They could’ve at least had some weapon switch stuff in there. The redundancy issue is the big problem as naturally, the Captchalogue has to be filled up, and the set takes many an opportunity to create items to put in the Captchalogue… and this is often the main creativity of these moves. I do like the Captchalogue, but the set needs a little more depth beyond that. Besides that, I am not sure if his playstyle comes together super coherently and is a bit messy because of the inherent design philosophy behind a weapon switch. I can’t really fault you for that, but it might’ve been smarter to have another central mechanic that tried to bring harmony to all the weapons somehow. I do enjoy the fact the weapons all break and add to the Captchalogue. The down special was definitely improved, but is the weak link in the specials, so may be the problem. In any case, this is your best set and I enjoyed it, thanks for all your participation this MYM Kafka!

I was excited to read Aurelia and largely have to say, it met my expectations! This set takes a concept not dissimilar to a weapon switch and manages to reinvigorate the idea, and does so while not having all that many hard interactions. The general playstyle in that way reminds me a little of Kylo Ren and his “slag” interactions where Aurelia creates a little dent in the ground, there’s a couple other things but mostly Aurelia just loads her giant… ribauldequin and immediately has access to a crazy amount of options. I’ll just refer to that as her weapon from here on out. This could easily be a huge mess if it was a true weapon switch and all the moves were split into all the various types of ammunition, by stacking them on top of another, you managed to make every move consistent in the playstyle. It was a very clever idea.

The set would also not be all that to write home about if it wasn’t acutely aware of the engine and as I know you don’t play or watch the games as often as some of us, I would’ve assumed you’d not be too knowledgeable on the way it works. I assume you did a lot of research or had someone on hand to ask questions because this set is very impressive in how far it digs its claws into the engine. The nair’s two hitboxes, the vast array of ways to utilize the dash attack, the super fast dtilt/fair, just scrolling up later on the standards in general were surprisingly functionality-focused and smartly grounded the set’s balance. That then leaves room for fun and creative, if not entirely lets say tournament tested moves like fsmash or usmash. These moves aren’t unviable or anything, but the set ensures it’s not just a one trick pony that’s entirely reliant on hard reads. The balance in this set was obviously an important aspect of it, and I think it almost entirely delivers on balancing an incredibly powerful weapon that has to be front loaded. She has super strong moves, but they aren’t so extreme as to be useless, and can be augmented to have pretty specific uses.

The characterisation of the set is more of a bludgeon hammer being used to bash foes using the giant instruments, but that’s okay. I enjoyed how impressive and satisfying it is to throw around the giant weapon, in many ways reminding me of Metireon and his giant tablet. Inevitably the set can’t quite go that far in giving an identity to Aurelia’s weapon but there’s plenty of creativity to make up for it in how she utilizes it both as a blunt weapon and to create massive disjoints at the same time.

I would say that there’s a little redundancy in the “power moves” of bair, uair, bthrow and fsmash in that they are strong moves basically made stronger, in various creative ways, but nonetheless the dust could’ve been put to better use on other moves. The other issue I take with the set is that the other three specials aren’t nearly as central as the neutral special. The down special is pretty good actually, and while it may have been good to utilize later on, just having it around was a nice way to help balance the set. The side special flamethrower felt a bit weak honestly as a side special, and the up special as we have discussed has issues on some stages, and doesn’t tie in nearly as strong as may have been possible. These are really not big problems overall, though I would say they aren’t just nitpicks. In any case, the set is still one of my favourites this MYM and you should feel proud of this one! Great work FA.

Elpizo is another set in the “customization” genre and one that has a good core and strong melee to help balance the concept. The set reminds me of a combination of Anti-Mage’s mana/shield system to augment moves and sets like Jr. Troopa due to all the individual upgrades. Elpizo has some really good, fun animations that just feel satisfying and are the sorts of move I would gravitate towards doing this archetypal boss character. For example the usmash and dsmash have a good villainous aura that combos well next to these showy sword moves, the ftilt has a lot of personality of course, and I like the general look and feel of moves such as dash attack. It all gives a great sense of personality with the smallest of touches, I like that this is all through very simple animations too, quite subtle. Both this and Copy X are two characters I very much enjoyed seeing entirely due to the playstyle/characters being ones I would like to see in a game, as they have a lot of innate personality to their animations. A magic evil swordsman is rarely not fun.

Where Elpizo takes the initial concept is relevant to how fun the character is to imagine playing, as largely it takes the route of fun experimentation over practicality for the upgrades. That’s just how these customizable sets tend to go; you can’t really build a strong playstyle around the foe having a myriad of optional upgrades to go. That’s not necessarily a bad thing however as having the freedom to make your own playstyle is obviously quite appealing. Balance also plays a huge part in this working, as is demonstrated in how DarkMega is a legendary train wreck using the same general idea. Another important detail here is the way the Dark Elf is applied is very well done. The “COMPLETE” and “CONFIRMED” messages cannot be understated in how intuitive they are compared to just nothing or a weaker indicator to the player. It’s nice to have a set like this that goes the extra mile to make it all clear. I also really liked the way the set plays with angles and hitboxes on moves like dash attack, back aerial and the nice seesaw changes to moves like uthrow and nair. It’s a good mix of both small, significant changes to hitboxes/lag, and other changes that drastically alter how a move works. In a set focused on customization, giving a wide selection of choice is very important.

There were some moves I was not sure about however for balance, primarily being forward tilt, up aerial, fthrow. The forward tilt doubling the potential damage that Elpizo takes is a little ridiculous considering how much damage a single hit already does in 1v1s, I would reduce this quite a bit. The up aerial I’m not convinced is all that much of a negative at all for such a hugely powerful upgrade. Fthrow doing self-damage and knockback to gain access to a powerful throw, basically giving a 104% KO throw is a little ridiculous especially when Elpizo can upgrade to deal obscene damage in other moves including his pummel and bthrow, so it’s not hard to get to that number having a stock lead. I was also not so sure about all the self damage on moves like aforementioned fthrow, fair, and the neutral special orb. In many ways these moves are actually a lot worse than self damage leaving lingering hitboxes or dealing very strong knockback to Elpizo himself, making the set seesaw a little into extremes.

Nevertheless, if you really wanted you could revisit some of these things, if not I still really enjoyed the set and it’s not all that far off from Copy X in quality for the many positives I do like. As a duo they’re an excellent project and an impressive end for a great contest from you Roy! I’m really hoping you can keep up the momentum for next Make Your Move.
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Jun 10, 2014
The Mask Falls
Burger King (The Black Knight)
Black Knight was a blast from the past. Not because I grew up with any pinball games aside from Space Cadet, but because the projectile redirect set was one of my few attempts at creating a moveset pre-MYM21.

Much like Strikers Daisy, The Black Knight has a central projectile that he has to smack around in order to let it gain power, in this case the Electro-Ball.

The set makes sure to make it feel like its source material: A pinball machine. Not only are all moves named after pinball techniques, but the most important props in the set are all themed after pinball classics even five-year Space Cadet-playing me can recognize, such as the bumper and the flippery things.

The set also provides tools to build your own pinball machine, so to speak and set-ups rarely feel redundant.
However, this exactly is the flaw of the set. Instead of playing pinball, The Black Knight forces the player to build the pinball machine first, which is a huge set-up and one that doesn't last in a Smash setting, especially since the Electro-Ball is build to bounce around this rarely existent pinball machine, being lightning fast.
This creates a sluggish and frustrating playstyle with a character with Link-like mobility having to build an entire set up in the hopes that a sonic speed thunderbolt can zip around for *fifteen hits* without flying out of bounds, which, with the current tools, seems nigh impossible especially when some of the Black Knight's tools even *speed up* the ball and what's left is an unimpressive melee and grab game.
Oct 27, 2015
Pop Star
Here Lies MYM's Hidden, Bloody History
To address the elephant in the room immediately, you succeeded at creating a vastly better Dead Hand than that of Wizzerd in the days of yore. Good work, Khold! Now, for the meat of the set. The rotten, festering, bloody meat. Dead Hand maintains a similar core to the Wizzerd set, albeit vastly less broken, revolving around wise use of the Dead Arm pseudo-minions to grab and fling the foe around wildly. I greatly appreciate you taking the effort to avoid the pitfalls of Wizzerd's take, not mucking about with stacking grab difficulty and such; the Dead Arms feel appropriately scary, but not to a broken degree. The shadow zones on USpecial are very neat, I'm rather fond of them and their features. NSpecial and DSpecial are also fun, giving DH a nice set of Specials all around. The sickening heap also has a nice selection of standards; I was particularly taken by Ftilt for being such an evergreen nice with a myriad of uses. The smashes are similarly good; I LOVE DSmash in particular! The aerials and throws are also nice; I like the use of arms to replace legs for "kicks". All in all, it all works and flows together very enjoyably; good work! (As an aside, I love the flavor, bouncing from horror to Wizzerd jokes, heheh.)

First things first: the flavor on this set is great. You did a great job imitating Andrew Hussie's style while simultaneously avoiding the pitfall of making the set incomprehensible to those who aren't familiar with Hamsteak. The second-person narration in particular is pretty much dead on, with my only complaint being that it at times loses the thread of being written in-character, with Unarmed UTilt even dropping second-person. But ultimately I still adore the flavor, and it goes a long way towards spicing up a solid, though not exactly groundbreaking, set. With that out of the way, it's on to the Specials, the meat and gristle of the set. Captchalogue is a pretty potent ability if used correctly, and I'm very happy to see that you've more or less made the STACK Captchalogue work exactly as it did in the source, down to weaponizing the violent forced ejection; in fact, said jettison mechanic is what propels this move to greatness, making it a more complex but more rewarding Pocket. But what makes it better is that you kindly provided Darmuk a good handful of objects to nab on his own, so he's not just screwed out of a mechanic against someone with no projectiles. The Strife Deck is well done, with each weapon occupying a clear cut niche with no real overlap, which is impressive for a first-time weapon swap set. I especially like how you even make the broken weapons useful by letting them become Captchalogue fodder. DSpecial is my favorite of the bunch, honestly, simply because it's such a simple but effective construct, handing out buffs, dealing DoT, and serving as Darmuk's best option for the Captchalogue eject under most circumstances. USpecial is also fun, since it actively feeds into the STACK. Beyond the Specials, the set is pretty cut-and-dry, with straightforward moves that all work well and are solid enough. My only complaints, I already voiced to you in the Discord, and they're all easy, rudimentary fixes. All in all, well done!

Who WAS That Mysterious Masked Mon?
Kilton has seen extensive reworking since his release, thanks to WCF taking feedback to heart and doing his best to refine the set more and more; I'm impressed with the (currently!) final result, so I'd say it was effort well spent! Kilton is a micromanagement set, albeit more distilled than some others in the genre thanks to having a relatively modest pool of Stuff to manage. Of course, having a modestly sized pool of stuff doesn't mean he can't have fun with his mechanics! The minions in this set are pretty interesting, since they're essentially neutral parties; I adore the idea of essentially summoning a stage boss to harangue everyone on stage... including poor Kilton himself. You even manage to keep that from being too overpowered by making it so the Lynel will never ally with Kilton and so he cannot be paired with another, less dangerous monster. The Lynel is a nuclear option, more or less, something extremely powerful but also very risky to Kilton himself. Beyond the minions, Kilton plays around with a lot of fun BotS mechanics, like cooking... Stalhorses (still angry we can't keep those in BotW, by the way...)... Octorock Balloons... he even uses the Spring-Loaded Hammer well! The Specials are all fun and interesting, especially when widely used in tandem. I love how practically every Special interacts with the others organically, even if the interaction is something rather small. The Smashes are all really fun as well; I'm happy to see your take on the increasingly popular concept of Smashes as Pseudo-Specials, because Kilton's Smashes play into his monsters in some really fun and useful ways! The rest of the set isn't necessarily EXCITING, but the melee game is solid, with a good focus on somewhat clumsy, awkward animations to hammer home that Kilton isn't exactly the most graceful fellow. Ultimately, I feel this set is very much worth a read, and I'm very pleased to see your dedication to it!

Universe Man, Universe Man
Planetman.exe starts off with two very strong core concepts that mesh together beautifully: orbits and Planets. Both concepts are pretty straightforward and intuitive, but the combination of them leads to some excellent central mechanics that make Planetman a fairly unique heavyweight! I'm very fond of what you've done here, creating a sort of "soft" projectile manipulation set that ends up lending the character an almost almighty feel as he whips comets, massive meteors, and chunks of the earth itself around as if they're nothing more than pawns. Planetman wisely keeps things close to the two cores, taking care not to introduce things that overcomplicate or water down the set. Every single move has an intuitive use and works together with Planetman's mechanics in a fun fashion. Even the animations are fairly fun given the character's unorthodox build! To sum it up, you did a great job, US. (Also, the space shuttle BAir is adorable.)

That's How Mafia Works
Aurelia is a set that admittedly intimidates with its length and density, but sticking with it is absolutely worth your time, because FA has done a wonderful job here. Between Shatter and the Dust cartridges, Aurelia has two very strong central mechanics that give her a VERY satisfyingly brutal feel that I love, especially in tandem with her absurd weaponry. The name of the game is overkill, and yet it's all balanced thanks to Aurelia needing to think on her feet and manage her resources and spacing wisely, otherwise she may end up missing crucial strikes and wasting big hits. While the word count is massive, it never feels superfluous or unnecessary thanks to every bit of information being engaging and useful. The set never feels like it's simply talking for the sake of having more words, thanks to having plenty to discuss. The animations are fairly creative in several places, and generally fittingly savage and brutal given the weapon Aurelia uses. It all comes together in a hugely satisfying symphony of destruction, one that demands the player learn how to dance to its tune, but promises extreme power when played correctly. Aurelia is pure gold, and absolutely worth a read; don't let the length put you off, this is a treasure not to be missed!
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Dec 31, 2018
Tallon IV
Switch FC
SW 1995 0060 1138
Unfortunately I won't be able to vote, so it seems.
Having the Comment deadline being the same Day as my Bachelor Thesis deadline does not help in getting things done in either direction
Jun 10, 2014
The Mask Falls
Default Dance (Omega by The Jim Jims The Jim Jims )

Just like the last comment aimed at this set, I'd first like to apologize for overlooking this set for quite long, being lodged at the bottom of my reading list. I found some time to read it and was really surprised since I heard this was your first set and while first sets are usually quite rubbish, you've managed to make your entry at a very respectable level.

This thanks to your mechanical understanding of Smash's mechanics and mindgames. While most sets tend to stay kind of basic in the melee category, you describe one-on-one interactions with fitting responses to opponent's reactions which makes even the weaker moves feel like a core part of Omega's set. This grasp is usually exclusive to moveset makers that have been here since the dawn of time and I can't stress enough how impressive it is for a newcomer to give us this sort of set of standards.

Much like the previous comment aimed at this set, I think the Specials are funnily enough the less interesting part of the set. The ammo isn't a bad mechanic by itself. It seems to represent Fortnite quite well and it gives a bold direction to the set.

That said, I feel the ammo, while a fun idea, is implemented a bit awkward.
Not only is the Plunger quite weak, it also comes with a hillariously high cost as you only have six of them. As noted in the set, these six Plungers correspond with the six Tony Hawk ramps you can build, but the set also uses them to give Omega a ranged option and to apply general pressure. A tool that is that recurring in the rest of the set's applications and with weaknesses similar to your regular old projectile shouldn't have such a harsh cost.
An ammo cost of twenty would already prevent Omega players from outright spamming it and make throwing one of them a concious decision, but it would allow this core projectile be less restricted in its uses and would allow Omega to actually use them for the purposes described so well.

Alternarively, you can keep the current ammo cost, but you can make them the most positively broken projectile in the game to justify it.

On the opposite side of that spectrum is the Tony Hawk Ramp, which is said to be the core of the set, but isn't mentioned a whole lot in the otherwise neatly described melee game, which makes it seem like a detached part of the set instead of its core. Some parts of its balance, such as the low HP and the high build time don't mesh well either with it already having a punishing ammo cost.

This is all easily fixed though, which is why I wrote this comment. I really think you already got what it takes to be one of the greats and Omega already competes with some of the sets of the leaders in my opinion which is why it would be silly to not rethink the balance of the ammo system and leave this gem be unpolished