[Major] "The Power of One" ~ Vid Channel links 1st post + Montage by Dekar

[zApollo]

Man, I got the Big Day Out on Friday, then flying in Saturday morning with a hangover and playing smash all weekend.

This is going to be awesome.

 

[MTGod]

So guys, I gathered moneys to pay for flights! Can I get a gist of who'll be there prior to the tournament? Totally would be up for exploring Brisbane on the days prior :D

 

[CAOTIC]

Tiger flights have suspended a lot of their flights to Brisbane Airport due to floods -- because of this, I have a rescheduled arrival which is likely to make me unable to attend the tournament, however, the Fraser Island plans are largely unaffected.

OOS'ers should check their inboxes to see if they've received any notifications regarding flight changes and manage themselves accordingly.

The question I'm asking to myself is: why are floods up north affecting flights in Brisbane Airport? And why up to a month from now?

 

[Aussierob123]

Yeah, I was goin to ask that too cao, makes no sense at all. No floods at Brisbane airport...

 

[xXArrowXx]

awwwwwwww poo

 

[S.D]

Shiiiiit, I still gotta book flights >.<

 

[MTGod]

Apparently the weather patterns are similar to ones that occurred 25 years ago that flooded some areas of Brisbane, so naturally laypersons are getting out of their tree because their reading too much into the science. AFAIK it's only Tiger that have suspended their service to Brisbane, and not the other airlines. This may affect people's ability to Price Match with Tiger prices though (it has for me, sadly D: )

 

[CaLibUr_1337]

Oh noes. Btw MTGod, tell me about how you won teh monezz

 

[Nova]

Brissie had about 90mm of rain yesterday, and the forecast is for the monsoon trough to head further south which could increase rain over southern QLD.
I know SA and Vic are due to get a fair bit of rain this week.

But that doesn't exactly explain Tiger's enthusiasm to reschedule flights lolol.

 

[Vyse]

@Brawl:

1) What do you guys think about testing a 3 stage starter list? ~ Yoshi's Island/Battlefield/Animal Crossing?
2) What do you guys think about Final Destination as a starter over Pokemon Stadium 1?
3) What do you guys think about Pictochat?

@Melee:

Opinions on Corneria?

 

[CaLibUr_1337]

FD over PS1

I'm a fan of pictochat

 

[Darkwing SykeDuk]

I'll have onions with my corneria.

apex rules betaarr

Neutrals 1v1:
FD
Yoshi's Story
Dreamland
Battlefield
Fountain of Dreams

Neutrals 2v2:
FD
Yoshi's Story
Dreamland
Battlefield
Pokemon Stadium

Counterpicks 1v1:
Kongo Jungle
Brinstar
Rainbow Cruise
Pokemon Stadium

Counterpicks 2v2:
Kongo Jungle
Brinstar
Rainbow Cruise


The player choice clause!:: If both players agree to a rule outside of this ruleset, feel free to play by that. If one player wants to counterpick Mute City and the other player is fine with that because they think it's a fair stage, then that is more than fine. However in the event the two players disagree, house rules stand.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

@Brawl:

1) What do you guys think about testing a 3 stage starter list? ~ Yoshi's Island/Battlefield/Animal Crossing?

Based on match-ups alone, starter lists should look like this:
3: PS2, Smashville, Lylat
5: +Battlefield, Castle Siege
7: +PS1, Frigate
9: +Halberd, Yoshi's
11: +Delfino, Final Destination
13: +Jungle Japes, Rainbow Cruise
15: +Brinstar, Norfair

Just because a stage moves, doesn't make it any less balanced than a static stage, and we should be striving for the fairest stage for game 1. Though considering the Australian community... SV/BF/YI would be your best bet I guess.

2) What do you guys think about Final Destination as a starter over Pokemon Stadium 1?

Pokemon Stadium 1 is a much more legit starter. It is much more balanced (Starters are supposed to be as neutral as possible) and is a much deeper stage.

3) What do you guys think about Pictochat?

If you're going to have it, you should also have some other borderline stage to counter it's influence, like Green Greens

@Melee:

Opinions on Corneria?

Camping below the fin is an incredibly advantageous position. Given the general lay-out, it is also a strong counter-pick for Fox. Stronger than any pick for any other character (unless you include Mute City for Puff/Peach).

EDIT: I agree with Beast's post.

 

[Testikills]

There's no way PS2 and Lylat are both better starters than Battlefield

 

[MTGod]

1) What do you guys think about testing a 3 stage starter list? ~ Yoshi's Island/Battlefield/Animal Crossing?

I'm a big advocate for more starters, purely because it allows greater option (even if 90% of the time it'll go to smashville regardless of how many starters there are ). I'm not experienced with a three-starter scenario, so personal opinion is as much as I can offer.

2) What do you guys think about Final Destination as a starter over Pokemon Stadium 1?

I'd love it, but only in a 5 or 7 list. I can elaborate on this if need be, but I'll leave it as personal opinion for now and see if I'm horribly outnumbered rendering my vote useless :D

3) What do you guys think about Pictochat?

Ugh...

 

[Ghostbone]

Just to note

3 Starters is working backwards more than anything.

The starters are supposed to give the fairest match-up for the first game, and it's very hard to do that with only 3 stages. 7 stages is a really good number, basically the seven grim said above maybe with Frigate replaced by Yoshi's.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

There's no way PS2 and Lylat are both better starters than Battlefield

That is based on raw match-up data, so actually, they are.

Though I'd probably put Battlefield above Lylat purely because of the random tilting.

I'm a big advocate for more starters, purely because it allows greater option (even if 90% of the time it'll go to smashville regardless of how many starters there are ). I'm not experienced with a three-starter scenario, so personal opinion is as much as I can offer.

You legend.

Finally someone else

I'd love it, but only in a 5 or 7 list. I can elaborate on this if need be, but I'll leave it as personal opinion for now and see if I'm horribly outnumbered rendering my vote useless :D

Still a legend.

Just to note

3 Starters is working backwards more than anything.

The starters are supposed to give the fairest match-up for the first game, and it's very hard to do that with only 3 stages. 7 stages is a really good number, basically the seven grim said above maybe with Frigate replaced by Yoshi's.

This is very true.

I suggest working off of this:

Starter:
Pokemon Stadium
Battlefield
Smashville
Lylat Cruise
Yoshi's Island (Brawl)

Counter-Pick:
Pokemon Stadium 2
Castle Siege
Frigate Orpheon
Halberd
Delfino Plaza
Final Destination
Jungle Japes
Rainbow Cruise
Brinstar

Borderline:
Pirate Ship
PictoChat
Green Greens
Norfair
Distant Planet
Port Town Aero Dive
Luigi's Mansion
Yoshi's Island (Melee)
Onett

Switch some things around if you need be, but that is the basic frame-work of a competitive rule-set. The stages are ordered from "Stage I think should be considered the most" to "stage I think should be considered the least". I left Castle Siege and PS2 off the starter list because I don't think you guys are quite ready for that yet

 

[xXArrowXx]

soooo why is fd suddenly so bad?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

It's not a bad stage, just a bad starter.

FD is not a starter stage. Shouldn't be, anyways. It is, quite simply, one of the most polar stages ever. I went down from S tier to D tier and found 2 characters who find the stage neutral in more than a small handful of matchups. FD is a hardcore counterpick. It's very rare that one of the two players doesn't ban it, that's how polar it is. It's literally about on the level with Rainbow Cruise or Brinstar as far as matchup polarization goes.

 

[Hotdog]

All we need is one starter.

Smashville!

 

[Grim Tuesday]

All we need is one starter.

Smashville!

Mr. Game & Watch would be pretty bummed about that.

 

[MTGod]

I left Castle Siege and PS2 off the starter list because I don't think you guys are quite ready for that yet

I tried a 7 list with Castle Siege back in December - it was -always- struck

Stick to what people are comfortable with for Majors - locals are the times for testing :D

 

[Ghostbone]

Mr. Game & Watch would be pretty bummed about that.

And Ice Climbers would be overjoyed.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I tried a 7 list with Castle Siege back in December - it was -always- struck

Oh, fair enough then. I've never tested with the stage, so that was just theory-craft based on what various character boards have said.

I'm guessing that the majority of people who struck it were just thinking about the walk-offs though, rather than if there character would benefit.

 

[Testikills]

And Ice Climbers would be overjoyed.

Unless they are playing against wolf, oh J-birds where you currently located

 

[MTGod]

Everyone struck it because there's 3 transformations, and it's very tough for all three of them to be favourable to your character in any match-up. If you think about it, you got almost all stage variations appearing at some point in that stage (short of moving platforms of course), and thus unless you already have a 70:30 MU against your opponent's character then you're giving them an advantage at some point in the match that they otherwise wouldn't have had on a different stage that you can counterpick. It's not a bad stage, but it's rarely ever going to get picked over stages that are consistently favourable to a character.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

That makes sense.

Do you agree with the list I posted earlier as a starting point?

 

[MTGod]

Which one? The one with PS2? I don't like PS2 as a starter. I don't like PS1 as a starter either, but everyone else seems to so I just roll with it.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

This one:

Starter:
Pokemon Stadium
Battlefield
Smashville
Lylat Cruise
Yoshi's Island (Brawl)

Counter-Pick:
Pokemon Stadium 2
Castle Siege
Frigate Orpheon
Halberd
Delfino Plaza
Final Destination
Jungle Japes
Rainbow Cruise
Brinstar

Borderline:
Pirate Ship
PictoChat
Green Greens
Norfair
Distant Planet
Port Town Aero Dive
Luigi's Mansion
Yoshi's Island (Melee)
Onett

 

[Ghostbone]

Everyone struck it because there's 3 transformations, and it's very tough for all three of them to be favourable to your character in any match-up. If you think about it, you got almost all stage variations appearing at some point in that stage (short of moving platforms of course), and thus unless you already have a 70:30 MU against your opponent's character then you're giving them an advantage at some point in the match that they otherwise wouldn't have had on a different stage that you can counterpick. It's not a bad stage, but it's rarely ever going to get picked over stages that are consistently favourable to a character.

Well then you'd most likely also have a transformation that helps your character, so it evens out more than anything.

Though I guess if your opponent can take advantage of the transformations better than you can it'd make sense to strike it.

 

[Attila_]

PS2 and lylat in a 3 stage starter list? grim has seriously never versed an mk before. seriously, that's ********.

in response to vyse:

1) I'd like to see a five stage starter list, just for a little more variety. Ideally SV, BF, FD, YI and PS1, although i figure FD will probs be substituted for lylat, although i'm still unsure why.
2) FD is fantastic; there's only one character who dominates on it, and even then, he's better on sv imo (i have for some time cp'ed tibor successfully to FD, and if you don't like it, strike it).
3) Pictochat is fine. No need for debate. RC/Japes/Brinstar are worth discussion, however. I think they're all equally ********, and we should either have all or none of them.

 

[Nova]

All of you are stupid.
FD is fine.
It should be legal because I like it, no "oh it's bad for half the cast" arguments, since I don't play half the cast.

Edit: Except Attila.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

@Atilla

Pokemon Stadium 2 doesn't favour Meta Knight >.>

I don't even support a 3 stage starter list, that list I posted before was based solely on match-ups, not my suggestions.

And lol at FD being "fantastic".

 

[MTGod]

Well then you'd most likely also have a transformation that helps your character, so it evens out more than anything.

It evens it out somewhat, but when you've got a choice of giving your opponent an advantage for some of the match or playing on a much more neutral option for a starter, most people choose the latter. Even if someone doesn't choose the latter, the other person probably will, resulting in it being struck anyway Smashville FTW

1) I'd like to see a five stage starter list, just for a little more variety. Ideally SV, BF, FD, YI and PS1, although i figure FD will probs be substituted for lylat, although i'm still unsure why.

I'd imagine it's because there are already three predominantly flat stages on the list, adding FD as a fourth is pretty unbalanced. Changing FD for Lylat will results in most matches going to SV first up, as there are 2 platformy stages and 2 flat stages, with SV being the middle ground so to speak. TBH I don't think I've ever seen Lylat or FD played as the starter stage in a tournament set that wasn't a ditto.

 

[J-Birds]

Starter:
Pokemon Stadium
Battlefield
Smashville
Final Destination
Yoshi's Island (Brawl)

Counter-Pick:
Castle Siege
Frigate Orpheon
Halberd
Delfino Plaza
Lylat Cruise

<3<3<3

 

[Grim Tuesday]

1. You have Final Destination as a starter. Why?

2. Brinstar, Jungle Japes and Rainbow Cruise are missing from your CP list. Why?

 

[Ghostbone]

FD as a starter?

You realize almost every match-up in the game has one character banning it right?
It's on the same level as Rainbow Cruise in terms of polarity.

 

[Testikills]

What do you put in it's place that won't be struck as much?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Lylat Cruise.

I can't guarantee that it won't be struck as much

Spoiler

EDIT: Wait, yes I can. I personally guarantee it won't be struck as often or as quickly as FD over-all.

, but I can say that the game will be more likely to end up on the fairest stage for the match-up.

 

[Testikills]

Lylat Cruise.

I can't guarantee that it won't be struck as much

Spoiler

EDIT: Wait, yes I can. I personally guarantee it won't be struck as often or as quickly as FD over-all.

, but I can say that the game will be more likely to end up on the fairest stage for the match-up.

I don't know the last time anyone in QLD in the past year has played first match on Lylat.