Pokkén Tournament Machamp Support and Cheer Skill Discussion

[Blade Knight]

As a character Machamp has a lot of power behind his moves, but his slower frame data and low overall mobility make it hard to approach to actually make use of your strength in certain matchups. In other matchups opponents speed is simply overwhelming and can be very hard to deal with as well. Here we should discuss what supports best allow Machamp to see success in each matchup and how they are best applied. We should also discuss what Cheer Skills are best as well.

I'll start:
I've personally found that in the Sceptile and Weavile matchups Diglett and Croagunk are rather good in each phase, Diglett in Field and Croagunk in Duel. The defense debuff in Duel Phase makes our damage output all the scarier, and the minimal amount of hit or block stun Croagunk puts out allows for good setups into grabs or combos if our opponent is too trigger happy. That said, Croagunk I feel is best used as an augment to our offensive game and thus should be called on after knocking an opponent down, ideally in the corner. Its utility defensively is still nice, but I feel that's not as strong of a use for it.

Diglett on the other hand passively denies space and gives Machamp a safe route through which to approach these characters. If they jump or get reckless it easily sets up for a phase shift with knockdown advantage. If it reaches them it also forces them to block, with good timing that's a free grab or submission. Against Weavile in particular this is very useful since it's so darn squirrely.

So what are your guys experiences with Supports, good and bad?

 

[meleebrawler]

Machamp's frame data outside his ranged attacks isn't bad, really (especially considering how many can counter or crush counters themselves), it's really just his mobility that's easily the worst in the game. Togekiss is an easy fix for that of course, and Rotom's flexible air denial (even targets moves that only slightly raise the user off the ground) is always nice. Emolga and Frogadier are also good for quickly disrupting ranged attackers.

On the heavier spectrum, Pachirisu and Magikarp provide long and close-ranged relief respectively. Magneton can be comboed into fairly easily while causing nasty debuffs.

 

[Blade Knight]

I'm not meaning to imply Machamp has horrible frame data all around, he's certainly not as bad as many of the traditional grappler archetype, but it is somewhat slow in areas compared to other characters is more what I meant. Rotom is very good vs Pikachu Libre and Gengar in particular, since many of their attacks put them into the air it heavily restricts them for quite a while.

I feel for Garchomp one of the best supports is Reshiram, since pushing Garchomp a full screen away is actually advantageous unlike most others. We get a free bulk up and can also react to Garchomp's approach, very strong in my opinion.

I've actually been trying to find worthwhile applications for the Pachirisu/Magikarp support set. I know Magikarp counters Blaziken's burst attack and can shake off combos that don't move too much, though I'm not sure what utility Pachirisu offers over Whimsicott, what have you found it's most useful for?

 

[meleebrawler]

I'm not meaning to imply Machamp has horrible frame data all around, he's certainly not as bad as many of the traditional grappler archetype, but it is somewhat slow in areas compared to other characters is more what I meant. Rotom is very good vs Pikachu Libre and Gengar in particular, since many of their attacks put them into the air it heavily restricts them for quite a while.

I feel for Garchomp one of the best supports is Reshiram, since pushing Garchomp a full screen away is actually advantageous unlike most others. We get a free bulk up and can also react to Garchomp's approach, very strong in my opinion.

I've actually been trying to find worthwhile applications for the Pachirisu/Magikarp support set. I know Magikarp counters Blaziken's burst attack and can shake off combos that don't move too much, though I'm not sure what utility Pachirisu offers over Whimsicott, what have you found it's most useful for?

I wouldn't get too comfy with Reshiram, it's gonna get nerfed . Fennekin and Electrode fulfill the "get off me" role just as well, as does his own Scary Face (Charge A), which most Machamps forget about since it's mainly an anti-approach tool on a character most run away from.

Pachirisu... actually I'm not too sure what it has over Whimsicott. Still, you may as well use it if you're running the pair for Magikarp and happen to run into a zoner. Magikarp, outside of the cases you mentioned is best used when your back is against a wall as not only is it less likely to miss there, but it's also where you're most susceptible to combos.

I'd seriously consider running the support cheer, since Machamp needs all the help he can get in zone breaking and his burst doesn't help all that much with it. It's much better at pressing an advantage.

On the flipside, if you've got your opponent cornered, Latios can seriously restrict them, and Quagsire can lead to hilarious chip damage with Close Combat

 

[Blade Knight]

I feel even with Reshiram's imminent nerfs it's still a good pick as it's the only support to buy a full screen length. You are right though, Electrode and Fennekin are also quite good, Fennekin in particular is a good safe choice in just about any matchup thanks to the invuln frames it offers. That said I don't think Fenekin is the best choice for any given matchup making the timing of using it more niche.

I've been mostly experimenting with Support and Special and I definitely agree, in projectile heavy matchups Support is certainly great, but Special's payoff can also be very big if you're confident in taking Round 1. I don't feel any of the other cheer skils is particularly worthwhile for Machamp, besides MAYBE Synergy in the Weavile matchup because having the light armor afforded by Synergy Burst really simplifies playing the matchup.

I hadn't considered Quagsire's use in the corner, I mostly had been using it as an approach assistant in field phase, but that sounds like a solid strategy, too bad we cannot KO off of chip damage, but it sets up for grabs nicely. Do you have any suggestions for the Gengar matchup? I have very little experience in it and would like a leg up next I fight one.

 

[Luggy]

For me, I use Frogadier and Eevee. Frogadier gives good pressure and an opportunity for Machamp to get a grab/command grab, plus a reliable projectile in dual phase. I barely use Eevee though, Machamp hits already hard on his own.
Cubone and Diglett are also good for him I think. One brings the opponent close to Machamp on hit and block, the other gives good pressure if blocked, and a good anti-air for Machamp.
I haven't really tested other supports, but those 2 sets seem to work fairly well for the character. Call me dumb if you want, but it works well for me, so maybe it will work for others.

I use the basic cheer skill. I tried the one to get the burst mode faster (sorry, I don't know the true name), but I feel that supports are important for Machamp, especially if they provide him projectiles that aren't rocks or his dirty spiritual feet.

 

[meleebrawler]

I feel even with Reshiram's imminent nerfs it's still a good pick as it's the only support to buy a full screen length. You are right though, Electrode and Fennekin are also quite good, Fennekin in particular is a good safe choice in just about any matchup thanks to the invuln frames it offers. That said I don't think Fenekin is the best choice for any given matchup making the timing of using it more niche.

I've been mostly experimenting with Support and Special and I definitely agree, in projectile heavy matchups Support is certainly great, but Special's payoff can also be very big if you're confident in taking Round 1. I don't feel any of the other cheer skils is particularly worthwhile for Machamp, besides MAYBE Synergy in the Weavile matchup because having the light armor afforded by Synergy Burst really simplifies playing the matchup.

I hadn't considered Quagsire's use in the corner, I mostly had been using it as an approach assistant in field phase, but that sounds like a solid strategy, too bad we cannot KO off of chip damage, but it sets up for grabs nicely. Do you have any suggestions for the Gengar matchup? I have very little experience in it and would like a leg up next I fight one.

I recommend the corner use for Quagsire because it comes out somewhat slow and may easily be evaded if they have space. Same with Latios, especially in field.

Gengar is mainly a matter of not falling victim to the various mixups and intangibility present in most of his moves. Favour spaced normals since his only real counter lacks range, and you don't want to be hit by his grabs or hypnosis. He'll die very quickly when you get your hands on him. Try your best to win the first round so that he feels pressured to use his burst in the second, giving you a clean break to win the third if worst comes to worst. Other things he can do include blocking your approach with charged Shadow Ball, drench you with Sludge Bomb to decrease your attack, hit you with a Curse (sinks into ground to cause a lot of non-fatal damage) if you bully him too much on wakeup, and Shadow Punch can be a bit of a pain in field with Machamp's slowness.

 

[Ghidorah14]

I stick with emolga/fennekin. Emolga can reach across the screen with an incredibly fast projectile that inflicts speed down x3. This is actually huge, since it allows machamp to pressure at a distance for either a free bulk up, or a chance to gain some ground. Plus, the speed reduction prevents the opponent from retreating quickly, making getting in that much easier. Plus, you can combo off it with cross chop.

I dont use fennekin much, but its a great "get off me" mon that gives you invincibility on activation.

I sometimes use dragonite/victini, as d-nite can hit spammers at a distance super hard. Even if they block, it creates a huge opening for you to close the distance. Vicitini is kinda eh.

I always go for the support cheer. Too valuable on machamp.

 

[meleebrawler]

I stick with emolga/fennekin. Emolga can reach across the screen with an incredibly fast projectile that inflicts speed down x3. This is actually huge, since it allows machamp to pressure at a distance for either a free bulk up, or a chance to gain some ground. Plus, the speed reduction prevents the opponent from retreating quickly, making getting in that much easier. Plus, you can combo off it with cross chop.

I dont use fennekin much, but its a great "get off me" mon that gives you invincibility on activation.

I sometimes use dragonite/victini, as d-nite can hit spammers at a distance super hard. Even if they block, it creates a huge opening for you to close the distance. Vicitini is kinda eh.

I always go for the support cheer. Too valuable on machamp.

Victini's main use is getting the most out of moves that require criticals for full benefit. For Machamp this is Karate Chop, and is something that many should try to implement in CQC since it is very fast and safe. And although it's tricky to judge, Victini's rising can be a hilarious get-off-me.