LumiRank Releases Third Official Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Tier List

Yesterday, LumiRank published the third official tier list for Super Smash Bros. Ultimate! As per usual they gathered qualified players to vote on where each Smash Ultimate character ranks in the metagame. Notably, this time they had a whopping 93 voters! That’s more than both the first and second tier lists, which sat at 71 and 61 panelists respectively. Here’s what their votes amounted to:


The 3rd Official Tier List:

S+:
S:
S-: ()
A+: ()
A:
A-:
B+: ()
B-:
C+:
C-:
D: ()
E:

Spoiler: Image

Additionally, LumiRank has their own article which covers the methodology as well as the differences in how the regions voted. Please check it out if you're at all interested: https://luminosity.gg/news/smash-ultimates-3rd-official-tier-list

Also, the data that went into this tier list is publicly viewable. Here's the spreadsheet for the tier list: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Y_oeh5lEdsXlqSTPg6CO9v2Oc6tgVj1tNY4g8rJu57I

Author's Note: It's always quite nice to see the tier list updated as the community's views shift over the course of time. And while I disagree with a few things I do think this is more accurate than the second tier list was. But what do you think? Please let us know in the comments below!

Credits:
Writing: Zerp
Thumbnail Graphic: Zerp
Social: Zerp

 

Here are the first 2 tier lists in case anyone is curious.

 

Ganondorf just can't catch a break, huh?

 

Might as well pull some data I recorded.

Here are the character movements from the previous list:
+21
+17
+16
+15
---
+10
+9
+8
+7
+6
+5
+4
+3
+2
+1
0
-1
-2
-3
-4
-5
-6
-7
-8
-9
-10
---
-12
-14
-16



And now comparison among ranks.
Rises:
S -> S+
A+ -> S
A+ -> S-
A -> S-
A -> A+
A- -> A+
B+ -> A+
A- -> A
B+ -> A
B- -> A
B+ -> A-
B- -> A-
B- -> B+
C+ -> B-
D+ -> B-
C- -> C+
D+ -> C-
D- -> C-
E+ -> D

No Movement:
S+
S
S-
A+
A
A-
B+
B-
C+
C-
D
E

Drops:
A -> A-
B+ -> B-
C+ -> C-

 

One day, Little Mac. One day.

 

At launch, I wouldn't have guessed snake would be S rank let alone top 3. Then again I can't think of a character who benefitted more from the addition of directional air Dodge

 

At last, I can say that I play a top tier ( )

 

Ganondorf just can't catch a break, huh?

Surprised he just didn't just get put into his own tier alone. (or at least E- while Mac is E or Mac is E+ while he's E or something)

Can't say I agree with Belmonts' placement but I wouldn't have put them that much higher myself, prolly still above Dedede at least though. Feel like them having niche use cases for specific matchups where they can somewhat excel is more than what some of the chars surrounding them can say. Also feel like K. Rool is too low but again I wouldn't put him that much higher (Around Zelda's placement) so it's mostly just nitpicking, he doesn't have much results lately either so I get that contributing too. One I feel this even more about is Mii Swordfighter, still convinced the only reason he's even that low is cause barely anyone who travels plays him.

 

Can't say I agree with Belmonts' placement but I wouldn't have put them that much higher myself, prolly still above Dedede at least though. Feel like them having niche use cases for specific matchups where they can somewhat excel is more than what some of the chars surrounding them can say.

Funnily enough, Japan thinks that Belmonts is straight up the worst character in the game.
As a matter of fact, someone recently released a few tier lists that is basically compiling the player votes of the 3rd official list into separate regions. The USA, Europe, and LATAM tier lists have Ganondorf bottom 1 as you would expect, but the Japanese tier list puts Belmonts a tier on their own at the bottom. Ganondorf is only the 2nd worst character in their tier list (and Marth was the 3rd worst).

 

Funnily enough, Japan thinks that Belmonts is straight up the worst character in the game.
As a matter of fact, someone recently released a few tier lists that is basically compiling the player votes of the 3rd official list into separate regions. The USA, Europe, and LATAM tier lists have Ganondorf bottom 1 as you would expect, but the Japanese tier list puts Belmonts a tier on their own at the bottom. Ganondorf is only the 2nd worst character in their tier list (and Marth was the 3rd worst).

Was mainly thinking cause there's a few matchups they actually do quite notably well in (like dedede), but then again I guess Dedede is just a more "consistent" character (heavy quotation for obvious reasons), since there's a lot more characters he can fight competently (doesn't beat outside the obvious ganondorf dr mario and whatnot, but can fight) like Lucina and several low tiers and some mid tiers. Even then I'd still put Ganondorf below Belmonts because there really doesn't feel like any matchups he succeeds in, at best it feels he might go even in like very few and even that might be a bit generous.

 

Didn't Little Mac and Dr. Mario have some tourney wins in Japan?

 

Bowser went from B- to C+ to C- with zero buffs or nerfs.

Honestly it's just proof that half of his advantage comes from being intimidating, and if you just lock in he's honestly so easy

 

Bowser went from B- to C+ to C- with zero buffs or nerfs.

Honestly it's just proof that half of his advantage comes from being intimidating, and if you just lock in he's honestly so easy

The main thing honestly is that his two best players (LeoN and Hero) has been getting less and less active in recent years.

 

The main thing honestly is that his two best players (LeoN and Hero) has been getting less and less active in recent years.

In that case,

I'm gonna have to get involved.

 

So much whining about K. Rool right when the game came out is what put him there. If he still had the longer gun suction and much stronger Down Smash, I bet he'd be a lot higher. Hopefully whoever does the balance for the next Smash game will finally wake up and make heavy characters scary. Give them all no flinch below 100%, so these spammy little, way to fast characters can't just combo them into oblivion. Trash balance.

 

So much whining about K. Rool right when the game came out is what put him there. If he still had the longer gun suction and much stronger Down Smash, I bet he'd be a lot higher. Hopefully whoever does the balance for the next Smash game will finally wake up and make heavy characters scary. Give them all no flinch below 100%, so these spammy little, way to fast characters can't just combo them into oblivion. Trash balance.

Except K. Rool is significantly better now than he was at launch. The tiny nerfs he got near the launch of the game pales in comparison to the massive buffs he got later in the game's life. (Down smash also never got nerfed; not sure where you got that from)
The problem is that he is plagued by several fundamental problems with his character design; his slow movement speed, awkward hitbox placements, slow projectiles, and exploitable disadvantage. Despite this, he is much better than at launch, as launch K. Rool is prob the worst character in Ultimate's history.

Also, no flinch below 100% is absurdly broken no matter who you give it too.

 

Except K. Rool is significantly better now than he was at launch. The tiny nerfs he got near the launch of the game pales in comparison to the massive buffs he got later in the game's life. (Down smash also never got nerfed; not sure where you got that from)
The problem is that he is plagued by several fundamental problems with his character design; his slow movement speed, awkward hitbox placements, slow projectiles, and exploitable disadvantage. Despite this, he is much better than at launch, as launch K. Rool is prob the worst character in Ultimate's history.

Also, no flinch below 100% is absurdly broken no matter who you give it too.

Maybe it was the bury I remember getting nerfed? Down throw not down Smash. The Vacuum nerf destroyed his edge guard completely. Had he kept the longer bury and more powerful suction obviously including what he has now, he'd still go nowhere but up on the list. Really pissed me off during that time to see people calling for K.Rool nerfs and Sakurai even acknowledged that he felt a nerf wasn't needed but gave in to fan pressure just for the sake of it.

People didn't even give themselves a chance to get used to the character, just immediately calling for nerfs and complaining that a heavy character has a counter? Stupid people. If he had a Fire Emblem counter that also reflected projectiles then I could see complaints, but his counter only works on his belly. Sakurai gave him way too many disadvantages for 0 reason including the belly breaking, his hat being able to be used against him, etc, etc..

 

The nature of power characters is that hard reads are more valuable for them and it only takes a few to make a serious upset/comeback, relative to the others. In my opinion erring on the side of them being too good runs the risk of the meta tail spinning into a cavalcade of redonkulousness, which may be good or bad depending on your tastes. But the design technique of having special mechanics that are strictly flaws, enabling them to feel really powerful in other areas to where it almost feels game-breaking, is an interesting one.

 

So much whining about K. Rool right when the game came out is what put him there. If he still had the longer gun suction and much stronger Down Smash, I bet he'd be a lot higher. Hopefully whoever does the balance for the next Smash game will finally wake up and make heavy characters scary. Give them all no flinch below 100%, so these spammy little, way to fast characters can't just combo them into oblivion. Trash balance.

I feel like he could go a bit higher (still low tier though), issue is he's hugely commital to play as you get punished so hard for simple mistakes, like his reward game is a lot better than some of the characters around him and it's totally possible to land it (got the range, startup frame data and tools for it), but he's got such bad endlag on a number of stuff and the way his attributes work make him prime candidate for insane type of punishes you can do on him once you've hit him, even compared to some of the other big body superheavies somehow, aside from Ganondorf ofc which is only cause of how bad his toolkit + abysmal recovery are. Compare to someone like Dedede who's issue is more so just how underwhelming he is overall, but you wind up being demanded a lot of near perfect play with minimal mistakes otherwise you often just explode.

 

I feel like he could go a bit higher (still low tier though), issue is he's hugely commital to play as you get punished so hard for simple mistakes, like his reward game is a lot better than some of the characters around him and it's totally possible to land it (got the range, startup frame data and tools for it), but he's got such bad endlag on a number of stuff and the way his attributes work make him prime candidate for insane type of punishes you can do on him once you've hit him, even compared to some of the other big body superheavies somehow, aside from Ganondorf ofc which is only cause of how bad his toolkit + abysmal recovery are. Compare to someone like Dedede who's issue is more so just how underwhelming he is overall, but you wind up being demanded a lot of near perfect play with minimal mistakes otherwise you often just explode.

I agree. Whoever does the balance for Smash all these years has never understood that if the stronger characters CAN'T even land a hit to begin with, then what is the point of the extra damage. I'll never forget watching a Bowser player during Smash Melee EVO trying to keep up with the usual characters. That guy was drenched in sweat.. Making a character around the CHANCE of doing a lot of damage is just stupid, but hey it's a party game at heart so it doesn't really matter. I've never considered Smash a fighter anyway. Just sucks that heavy characters get shafted over and over..and over..

 

I agree. Whoever does the balance for Smash all these years has never understood that if the stronger characters CAN'T even land a hit to begin with, then what is the point of the extra damage. I'll never forget watching a Bowser player during Smash Melee EVO trying to keep up with the usual characters. That guy was drenched in sweat.. Making a character around the CHANCE of doing a lot of damage is just stupid, but hey it's a party game at heart so it doesn't really matter. I've never considered Smash a fighter anyway. Just sucks that heavy characters get shafted over and over..and over..

To be fair, it wasn't for lack of effort, particularly with smash 4 onward. And I do think ultimate did a decent job defining S-rank as something other than hyper-agile fighters with oppressive neutrals. But incidentally, online latency is a huge boon for heavies. So there's that heh

 

To be fair, it wasn't for lack of effort, particularly with smash 4 onward. And I do think ultimate did a decent job defining S-rank as something other than hyper-agile fighters with oppressive neutrals. But incidentally, online latency is a huge boon for heavies. So there's that heh

Let's just hope heavies get treated better in the next game. Where is Ganondorf's green orb projectile?

 

Let's just hope heavies get treated better in the next game. Where is Ganondorf's green orb projectile?

My idea was to have his down-b draw/sheath "the sword" which toggles between two sets of 3 other specials. (Although altering standard attacks might make more sense.) But such an elaborate mechanic probably has a better fit on someone else.

 

My idea was to have his down-b draw/sheath "the sword" which toggles between two sets of 3 other specials. (Although altering standard attacks might make more sense.) But such an elaborate mechanic probably has a better fit on someone else.

That's sort of what I wanted Sakurai to do with K.Rool had he spent more time on the move set. I feel he just copy/pasted fan ideas. K. Rool down B should've been him changing his outfit, which alters all the other B specials. They'd be similar but different properties. Neutral B King is the crown, Pirate is the cannonball, Scientist is the electrical nodes. Side B for each is a dash. King is the run in DK Country, Pirate is the Blunderbuss Boost in DKC 2 etc. As well as the UP B in king form being the giant leap from DKC similar to DDD, Pirate is the Blunderbuss jet boosting upward, and Scientist the helipack which we have now.

He would've been more like a switch blade character that way. The neutral attacks and Smashes could keep using the boxer stuff we already have. I've always had a hunch K. Rool was never a top priority character anyway. Seeing as he needed a damn ballot to even be included.. Sad that him being DK's arch enemy seemed to never carry any weight until fan demand forced him to be included.

 

I agree. Whoever does the balance for Smash all these years has never understood that if the stronger characters CAN'T even land a hit to begin with, then what is the point of the extra damage. I'll never forget watching a Bowser player during Smash Melee EVO trying to keep up with the usual characters. That guy was drenched in sweat.. Making a character around the CHANCE of doing a lot of damage is just stupid, but hey it's a party game at heart so it doesn't really matter. I've never considered Smash a fighter anyway. Just sucks that heavy characters get shafted over and over..and over..

Tbh I'm more bothered by this when it comes to Dedede and Ganondorf especially, with K. Rool you can at least feel there was lots of attempts done and care throughout the patches, even fixing up some bugs here and there for him, though he definitely still needs more to deal with some core issues to help him avoiding exploding as easily as he does, no disagreeing. For Dedede and Ganondorf on the other hand, they didn't even bother trying to fix some of their smash attacks having insane blindspots since release (or in the case of dedede's fsmash, an issue with the way it's coded that can make it unsafe on hit and leads to him getting punished for landing it)...

 

(or in the case of dedede's fsmash, an issue with the way it's coded that can make it unsafe on hit and leads to him getting punished for landing it)...

Brawl DDD had a little "shockwave" hitbox on his fsmash, not sure if they removed it though or you're referring to something else anyway

 

Brawl DDD had a little "shockwave" hitbox on his fsmash, not sure if they removed it though or you're referring to something else anyway

Nah I mean the hammer hit itself, shockwave is still there and better than ever, ironically in Ultimate the shockwave is more reliable than the actual hammer hit (shockwave is the best it's ever been, while the hammer hit is the worst it's ever been), one of the few things that's better about his Smash 4 incarnation prolly. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlVnzU2pu80 here's a vid showing off some of its issues

 

Tbh I'm more bothered by this when it comes to Dedede and Ganondorf especially, with K. Rool you can at least feel there was lots of attempts done and care throughout the patches, even fixing up some bugs here and there for him, though he definitely still needs more to deal with some core issues to help him avoiding exploding as easily as he does, no disagreeing. For Dedede and Ganondorf on the other hand, they didn't even bother trying to fix some of their smash attacks having insane blindspots since release (or in the case of dedede's fsmash, an issue with the way it's coded that can make it unsafe on hit and leads to him getting punished for landing it)...

100% agree. I love playing as DDD and Ganon. I hope they see some "BIG" changes next game.