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Social Luigi's Social Mansion

MonkeyArms

Smash Ace
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MrCheeseburger7
I knew you wouldn't like my chart. You are the most radical Luigi player here...but it's fun to debate.

from day 1 to still, I firmly believe Ganondorf is Luigi's best matchup. I know you're the only Luigi here that thinks Luigi loses badly to him but I just don't see it. Luigi combos him badly, better frame data, Ganondorf has no way past fireballs at all, gets dair or cyclone spiked at low percents. His grab range is horrible, hss slower moving, and barely anymore range than Luigi sides a few attacks. The only thing Ganondorf has on Luigi is edgeguarding and f tilt.

Don't think so about Doc, it's universally agreed on Mario loses to Luigi. Doc at least has a bit of extra kick to kill earliee than Luigi, to which Mario cannot.

When the only way to survive against Sheik is to power shield everything, it is. How can Luigi realistically touch a good Sheik who optimizes fair chains and needles with a 50/50 kill confirm at 100%? Granted there's Concon vs Vinnie which sheds a bit of hope...

Meant to put DK as 45:55 DKs favor, I think he doesn't get wrecked though. DKs disadvantage is terrible, although his longer limbs, speed, and jabbing fireballs away along with a kill confirm makes him formidable. I'd know, I got wrecked by the best one in BC.

Dunno about Palu and Mii Sword, but Falco's lazer is surprisingly effective against such a slow character, reflector is better for spacing, and his moves aren't all broken by nair unlike Fox. You also have to be weary of a side b spike.

Falcon is even basically. Luigi nair on his jab breaks it, he dair spikes him and combos him, but Falcon can actually avoid fireballs unlike Ganondorf with sheer speed, and Luigi cannot answer to uair at all.

Please explain about Mac? Because a good one does beat up Luigi with super armor, but he is still susceptible to fireballs and edgeguards, and his poor grabs don't help along with Luigis grab setting up well for gimps. It's definitely winnable, and no high play evidence suggests it isn't yet.
I don't think Ganon beats Luigi, he just doesn't win that badly. You'd be suprised at how much easier it is for ganon to face Luigi than other characters. Its as simple as him getting a few good shields and he's getting good damage.

I main both Doc and Luigi, and I know both sides of the matchup. Unfortunately for Doc, he does not have reliable down throw setups on Luigi past 55 due to his slow fall speed. His combo breaker is also much more of a gamble, and simply put the main reason Doc does so bad against Luigi is his inability to easily set him up.

DK can combo break you (Up B), space you, combo you, edge guard you, force you to spot dodge to approach, what does Luigi have in comparision? Not many answers, in fact, his recovery is basically a counter to how Luigi edge guards.

Sheik. Just, sheik. Many people believe the fallacy that Sheik can fair combo you until you die as Luigi but the reality is you can just DI and nair out of it. If Sheik fairs your shield, that's an easy grab punish. If its spaced, simply powershield. Its rediciously easy to powershield in this game, so I don't see a problem with it. Plus, you should be able to get beneficial trades with dair or fair. Did I mention Luigi's projectile is much more reliable than Sheiks? Not only do you not have to be on the ground to use it, but you can use it to stop her from throwing needles. Luigi's also one of the best edge guarders against sheik. By no means an easy matchup but seriously the ratio people make for it only serves as an excuse for bad play.

Falco isn't bad for him but I don't think he's even. He doesn't have good answers when you get close to him, and he doesn't really have an answer for Luigi's edge guards aside from mixing up side b, which is an easy forward air. Plus, its stupidly easy to combo falco. I can see why someone would make it come across as even but I don't think it is.

You forget that falcon's jab gets DOUBLE naired, for an easy 24 percent. His down air is a good edge guarding option, but it will require a hard read of if your going to air dodge, when your coming back to stage, and a ton of shenanigans. The only reliable option he has to get through your fireballs is to shield, making for an easy grab setup. Most of falcons combos on Luigi should also be an easy nair unless he reads it. Its not unwinnable for him but he shouldn't be winning the matchup. The only time it gets close to even is when the falcon likes to space with back air, which then you will have to powershield or fair/dair to get a punish.

It takes about one grab from the middle of the stage for little mac to easily be setup for a double fair offstage to make an easy edge guard. Mac has basically no options for edgeguarding Luigi and the only thing he has is super armor. Mac has no reason to be winning simply because one grab from basically anywhere can mean death to him.
 

FUEGO!

Smash Journeyman
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MontyRattata
I don't think Ganon beats Luigi, he just doesn't win that badly. You'd be suprised at how much easier it is for ganon to face Luigi than other characters. Its as simple as him getting a few good shields and he's getting good damage.

I main both Doc and Luigi, and I know both sides of the matchup. Unfortunately for Doc, he does not have reliable down throw setups on Luigi past 55 due to his slow fall speed. His combo breaker is also much more of a gamble, and simply put the main reason Doc does so bad against Luigi is his inability to easily set him up.

DK can combo break you (Up B), space you, combo you, edge guard you, force you to spot dodge to approach, what does Luigi have in comparision? Not many answers, in fact, his recovery is basically a counter to how Luigi edge guards.

Sheik. Just, sheik. Many people believe the fallacy that Sheik can fair combo you until you die as Luigi but the reality is you can just DI and nair out of it. If Sheik fairs your shield, that's an easy grab punish. If its spaced, simply powershield. Its rediciously easy to powershield in this game, so I don't see a problem with it. Plus, you should be able to get beneficial trades with dair or fair. Did I mention Luigi's projectile is much more reliable than Sheiks? Not only do you not have to be on the ground to use it, but you can use it to stop her from throwing needles. Luigi's also one of the best edge guarders against sheik. By no means an easy matchup but seriously the ratio people make for it only serves as an excuse for bad play.

Falco isn't bad for him but I don't think he's even. He doesn't have good answers when you get close to him, and he doesn't really have an answer for Luigi's edge guards aside from mixing up side b, which is an easy forward air. Plus, its stupidly easy to combo falco. I can see why someone would make it come across as even but I don't think it is.

You forget that falcon's jab gets DOUBLE naired, for an easy 24 percent. His down air is a good edge guarding option, but it will require a hard read of if your going to air dodge, when your coming back to stage, and a ton of shenanigans. The only reliable option he has to get through your fireballs is to shield, making for an easy grab setup. Most of falcons combos on Luigi should also be an easy nair unless he reads it. Its not unwinnable for him but he shouldn't be winning the matchup. The only time it gets close to even is when the falcon likes to space with back air, which then you will have to powershield or fair/dair to get a punish.

It takes about one grab from the middle of the stage for little mac to easily be setup for a double fair offstage to make an easy edge guard. Mac has basically no options for edgeguarding Luigi and the only thing he has is super armor. Mac has no reason to be winning simply because one grab from basically anywhere can mean death to him.
Man, what the heck are we gonna do about Cheezeballer? The DK matchup is exactly what you're talking about here, I can't stand it.
 

Yonder

Smashboard's 1st Sole Survivor
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Went as a Luigi/M2 main in the university tourney I went to. Won 3 lost 2. I went Luigi for all but Rob and Rosa. Whereas I lost as Luigi bad to a ROB, M2 covers the ROB matchup excellently.

Of course 2nd match in winners i would vs Big D...self explanatory.

But I got a really cute girls Facebook so all good! I got distracted so it kinda made me less focused on the Fox matchup I lost as Luigi...girls are my crux.

I need ROB advice to be short with Luigi. Fireball is good for stuffing gyro but that's about I got, so hard to approach. Again, M2,) is a fantastic counter for ROB. Ok vs Rosalina...
 

Mileo279

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 11, 2016
Messages
63
Luigi mains we need to get to work work are way to top 10 character and top 8 at majors we have potential look at diddy he dug himself out of a ditch twice and back in top ten we can do the same we still have our tools but no know kill confirm but if we get these threads go in again maybe this can happen because Luigi's Number 1
 
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KingDaiGurren

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 6, 2014
Messages
236
Hi Luigi boards I had a question I was hoping you guys would be able to help me with. I'm a Kirby main and by far the Luigi v Kirby matchup is probably Kirby's worst, many people on our boards believe it to be a 7:3 matchup in Luigi's favor just because he's able to wall kirby out so well with his fireballs and jabs.
I was wondering if aside from maybe inhaling Luigi to get his fireballs if there were any other options you guys might think are viable? Also how does Luigi fair against Peach, Pit, Falco, and Bayo?
Thanks Weegees!
 

MonkeyArms

Smash Ace
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MrCheeseburger7
Hi Luigi boards I had a question I was hoping you guys would be able to help me with. I'm a Kirby main and by far the Luigi v Kirby matchup is probably Kirby's worst, many people on our boards believe it to be a 7:3 matchup in Luigi's favor just because he's able to wall kirby out so well with his fireballs and jabs.
I was wondering if aside from maybe inhaling Luigi to get his fireballs if there were any other options you guys might think are viable? Also how does Luigi fair against Peach, Pit, Falco, and Bayo?
Thanks Weegees!
Back air? Staying above him and using your command grab and down air as opposed to copying his ability? IDK I'd think these would be obvious things. Its not like Luigi is going to chase you in midair, and you should easily powershield or jump over his fireballs. IDK I can't see why Luigi would be that much of a problem for kirby, aside from his edgeguarding. You should have plenty of options that he doesn't have good counters for, like crouching.
 
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Mileo279

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 11, 2016
Messages
63
Hi Luigi boards I had a question I was hoping you guys would be able to help me with. I'm a Kirby main and by far the Luigi v Kirby matchup is probably Kirby's worst, many people on our boards believe it to be a 7:3 matchup in Luigi's favor just because he's able to wall kirby out so well with his fireballs and jabs.
I was wondering if aside from maybe inhaling Luigi to get his fireballs if there were any other options you guys might think are viable? Also how does Luigi fair against Peach, Pit, Falco, and Bayo?
Thanks Weegees!
Duck hunt cause camp luigi and early tree kills and about peach i feel its 60:40 luigi because has easy time dealing with float and fire ball catches floating peach.
 

RIP|Merrick

Absolute Trash
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Merricktherox
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaHGBSyV93s

Criticize my set against my boy BooBear please. Even watching it now I noticed things I can work on further yet, but what do you all think? I feel I've used less risky tornadoes, though there were certainly a few I used, though it's been much more sparingly. I feel my punish game in some aspects is getting better, but holy crap so many missed techs that hindered my game. I'm noticing my patience is really starting to pay off in several aspects as well, though. Any helpful critiques and even things I do well at would be much appreciated fam. :)
 

KingDaiGurren

Smash Journeyman
Joined
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Messages
236
Back air? Staying above him and using your command grab and down air as opposed to copying his ability? IDK I'd think these would be obvious things. Its not like Luigi is going to chase you in midair, and you should easily powershield or jump over his fireballs. IDK I can't see why Luigi would be that much of a problem for kirby, aside from his edgeguarding. You should have plenty of options that he doesn't have good counters for, like crouching.
Down air is extremely punishable on shield, and a big issue that a lot of kirby players have with luigi is that he gets out of our combos easily, also since he's so slippery we can't really get much off of down tilt which is one of our better combo starters. Kirby has a point in his crouch where has animation makes luigi's fireball hit him again. Kirby apparently has a positive matchup against Luigi in terms of edge guarding unless Kirby is under Luigi. Powershield is also an option but luigis can wall Kirby out very well with fireball and jab. This video of MikeKirby (one of the better Kirby players) vs John numbers in their grand finals is a pretty good example of the matchup. Kirby can't rush in like on a lot of other characters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_UDxmqVpTk


Duck hunt cause camp luigi and early tree kills and about peach i feel its 60:40 luigi because has easy time dealing with float and fire ball catches floating peach.
Duck Hunt is a stage that most Kirby's pick but if a Luigi gets a lead he can camp in the trees due to Kirby's poor ground and air speed. Not too sure about the 60:40 though, most peach's don't sit in float all the time they use a technique called QFC (quick float canceling) to move quickly around the stage/luigi. EOE has a match against Mint who has a pretty solid Luigi imo that kind of demonstrates the matchup.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6ShwYUsNJA
 

Mileo279

Smash Cadet
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Jan 11, 2016
Messages
63
Luigi main what happened it seems like this place is empty no one post no work is getting done unless your discovering tech and exchanging information secretly are lack of results and development is landing us at 20th place on ZeRo's tier list that isn't bad I'd like better. If their is secret development going on can I be filled if not we'll then luigi is doomed
 

FUEGO!

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MontyRattata
Luigi main what happened it seems like this place is empty no one post no work is getting done unless your discovering tech and exchanging information secretly are lack of results and development is landing us at 20th place on ZeRo's tier list that isn't bad I'd like better. If their is secret development going on can I be filled if not we'll then luigi is doomed
They all jumped **** to the now almost dead itself Discord group. Only reason it isn't dead itself yet is because ConCon keeps coming and dropping knowledge.
 

Mileo279

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So Who do you think is the second best luigi player (Cause we all know ConCon is the best) and do you think luigi could get top 8 at a national
 

Yonder

Smashboard's 1st Sole Survivor
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Alright, 1.1.5 landed out of no where just now. Damage changes for some characters are reported. Anyone wanna hit the lab a bit for Luigi?
 

Mileo279

Smash Cadet
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Jan 11, 2016
Messages
63
Luigi mains can we at least try to be productive. Like really nothing significant ever really gets and there are rarely ever post anything. Like when patched we be like nothing happened no discussion can't always be nothing even if is we could still discuss how this patch affects like the zss and sheik nerfs benefit us like really sheik is better for us know and zss might be even ( just an opinion never thought zed was that bad) like really can we at least try to do something discuss, communicate do something please, this place is a ghost town
 

Green L

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 9, 2015
Messages
141
Luigi mains can we at least try to be productive. Like really nothing significant ever really gets and there are rarely ever post anything. Like when patched we be like nothing happened no discussion can't always be nothing even if is we could still discuss how this patch affects like the zss and sheik nerfs benefit us like really sheik is better for us know and zss might be even ( just an opinion never thought zed was that bad) like really can we at least try to do something discuss, communicate do something please, this place is a ghost town
I don't know if you're a luigi main or not but the luigi meta came to a screeching halt after the nerfs. Luigi doesn't even have the high potential diddy does. Luigi's viability dropped like a rock.
 

Mileo279

Smash Cadet
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Messages
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I don't know if you're a luigi main or not but the luigi meta came to a screeching halt after the nerfs. Luigi doesn't even have the high potential diddy does. Luigi's viability dropped like a rock.
I am a Luigi main along with diddly but I always felt we shouldn't give up we didn't even give him a chance ( only like a month) the only one whos even trying is Mr.Con Con (not saying your not cause I don't know because yours isn't public to my notice sorry if you are). Doesn't luigi down b gimp count for something. Can't we have sunken cause on ZeRo tier list we are 5 spaces away from top tier and this patch can only. All I ask can we at least try and stay positive. You say we can't but Ike a worse character has top 8 at 2 majors we only have been used as a counter pick
 

Pyr

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I don't know if you're a luigi main or not but the luigi meta came to a screeching halt after the nerfs. Luigi doesn't even have the high potential diddy does. Luigi's viability dropped like a rock.
It's being worked on Fam. All the D-Throw changed was a guaranteed kill became a 50/50. The Down-B KB change is more significant.
 

Green L

Smash Apprentice
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Sep 9, 2015
Messages
141
It's being worked on Fam. All the D-Throw changed was a guaranteed kill became a 50/50. The Down-B KB change is more significant.
Some pathetic "50/50" it is. They can just di away and avoid it completely. Even if cyclone hit in the air, it's super easy to di out of, making cyclone useless in the air
 

Pyr

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Things like that make me not post on Smashboards anymore. People take everything with such a negative light that it blinds them from the actual work and results. If they "avoid it completely," what can be done to change that? What are your other options? Are there character-specific things that can be done? I can tell you right now that it isn't even right.

But na. People would rather just die and say that his metagame is kaput. Annoys me to no end.


Off of the boards. Boards are dead and full of defeatism. I'd rather talk to people doing lab work.
 

Green L

Smash Apprentice
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Sep 9, 2015
Messages
141
So its wrong for pre luigi to be centered around grabs but it's ok for Dk and Bowser, who are one trick ponies?
 

Mileo279

Smash Cadet
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Jan 11, 2016
Messages
63
So its wrong for pre luigi to be centered around grabs but it's ok for Dk and Bowser, who are one trick ponies?
Yeah cause it's not like LUIGI have Better frame data, aerials, projectile, isn't combo food. Yeah because all he could do was down throw down b.
 

Green L

Smash Apprentice
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Sep 9, 2015
Messages
141
Yeah cause it's not like LUIGI have Better frame data, aerials, projectile, isn't combo food. Yeah because all he could do was down throw down b.
Yeah it's not like BOWSER and DONKEY KONG have better grab range, more damage, faster air speed, faster ground speed, and better traction. BS "because all he could do was down throw down b" He could set up fireball locks, jab resets, back air, nair, up b, and down air. You're no luigi main if you didn't know that. Bowser and DK literally live off of up throw and that's ok???
 

Mileo279

Smash Cadet
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Jan 11, 2016
Messages
63
Just because your mad don't disrespect other characters do you hear diddy mains complaining because their not baby's and they actually try to do something after. Yeah and I know what your going to say but how would you know if he has potential of your to busy drowning in your salt that is like 6 months old
 

DJ Delta

Smash Journeyman
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Mar 14, 2013
Messages
297
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RI
I feel I have been a bit inactive. At least from a smashboards perspective. Though I have still been entering tournaments. Kind of hit a stale point where I kind of win/lose to the same people. Just haven't found much time to practice, but hoping to find time soon (especially since the new patch changed a lot of matchups for Luigi). Going to try to be a bit more active on here as well.
 

Mileo279

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 11, 2016
Messages
63
I feel I have been a bit inactive. At least from a smashboards perspective. Though I have still been entering tournaments. Kind of hit a stale point where I kind of win/lose to the same people. Just haven't found much time to practice, but hoping to find time soon (especially since the new patch changed a lot of matchups for Luigi). Going to try to be a bit more active on here as well.
Thank you thank you thank you
 

DJ Delta

Smash Journeyman
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Thank you thank you thank you
I'm not sure if this is towards me on particular or more of the fact that your happy someone is just being active on the boards, but either way your are right there has been a lack of activity and I could probably do more to help. Recently have been organizing my own weekly and am also doing a fundraiser tournament in the Summer.

Anyway I was wondering how people feel about shield breaks with Luigi? Up b does so much shield damage that if someone's shield is low I just run in and up b it. It won me a set at a huge monthly a few weeks ago.

Plus with the patch some of Luigi's mus got more doable(sheik and zss) but a few also got more difficult (Samus and Charizard). My only worry is that a lot characters seems to be getting ground and air speed buffs making Luigi's slow air speed and so-so ground speed even more apparent.
 
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dhif24

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 22, 2015
Messages
33
Lately have been having no problems getting people up to around 100-110% - its when i am in the kill percents i tend to get smash happy and usually get punished for it
 

G. Stache

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Sep 21, 2015
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New England
Hmm, so that patch, eh? In my personal opinion, Sheik and ZSS were only -1 (I think the only -2 we really have is Megaman. Wasn't one for thinking that Sheik was a -2 MU). But with the nerfs, the two MU's are definitely looking more even than disadvantage. So I suppose that's two MUs that became a bit better. I guess the real part of patch 1.1.5 that stood out to me is that buffs could still happen towards Luigi. I dunno, wishful thinking I know, but if Greninja and Mewtwo can get buffs to frame data and speed (M2 in particular getting two buffs in a row to running speed, my goodness). Then maybe Luigi can get something. I'm hoping that's the case. Luigi getting nothing while other mid tiers getting something like power/mobility/frame data buffs seems a bit unfair balance-wise. It's meh I suppose if Luigi gets nothing, but it'd definitely be great if Nintendo realized that Luigi was still a character that they can do good things to.
 
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dhif24

Smash Cadet
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Dec 22, 2015
Messages
33
I still think luigi is top 10-15, the sheik and zss nerfs are nice but I think those MUs were in our favor already. Guys what do we think about the falco matchup? he consistently gives me trouble mainly because of his damn lazors and his up smash seems to have priority over tornado
 
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Mileo279

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 11, 2016
Messages
63
Falco combo food and easy to Edge guard I think we have a slight advantage 55-45 or even up smash won't kill super so it's not that big but luigi definitely top 15 maybe top 10 the only top tiers that scares is like Rosa and cloud in my opinion
 
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