Luigi's Doubles Discussion: Lucario

[$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$]

Luigi's Doubles Discussion. Who does good or bad w/ Luigi on doubles? Let's find out and discuss to solve the problems.

Rating

1/10 - 10/10

8-10 - One of the best partners that can benefit Luigi.
5-7 - Decent team, the team have minor advantages and disadvantages.
2-4 - Not a very good team at all, the partner barely have anything to support Luigi.
0-1 - Very bad team and partnership due to matchups, stages, bad attributes, etc..

Discussion Order

1.) General Tips
2.) Good Attributes
3.) Bad Attributes
4.) Characters to watch out for
5.) Stage Picking
6.) Advance Team Techniques
7.) Is the team viable?

Our Tier List Rankings

S:
A:
B:
C:
D:
E:
F:
G:


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I will update this every day!! - LilG912

 

[Yonder]

I vote Mario 1st . I remember that match (Mok and someone else) with Mario and Luigi when Mario pushed Luigi with the FLUDDD into a midair Peach and he did a uppercut for the kills, so amazing

 

[BSP]

We can start with anyone, but I'd recommend starting with the more popular characters first.

Mario + Luigi is a pretty manly team though.

 

[Variable]

I'd say Diddy Kong, or any really good DPS* character.

1.) General Tips:

Play patient and very careful. Let Diddy Kong attempt to cause confusion or wrack up damage so you can come in and combo into a kill or come in directly with a kill move after a banna slip or any other mistake that might happen. Bannas and fireballs will be a good option for approching and starting combos.

2.) Good Attributes:

Diddy can combo like crazy and keep the pressure on, while you can punish in the air or on the ground. Luigi can etiher play offensive support or play defensive punisher. Fire balls in the air + bannas on ground make it hard for the opponent to approach.

3.) Bad Attributes:

Both somewhat light, so it is easy for both of you to be killed. Both can be gimped fairly easily if not careful. Neither of the characters have the best range.

4.) Characters to watch out for:

Marth. He outranges both weegee and diddy, and has a ton of options against you. Of course MK because of his gimping abilities.

5.) Stage Picking:

Any Neutral really. BF and FD are a good choice for this team. You don't want to be moving around a bunch, or a stage that changes, but any of the CP's wouldn't be a terrible option.


P.S. ( Thank you for making this thread!)

 

[AxelPurpleMissle]

Good Idea Starting up this Thread X3

I think its a great way to know what partner plays the best with luigi, so ya great idea!

I think luigi makes a good partner with
Diddy, Mario, Toon link?, ness, kirby, maybe fox/link?

But even though if we do this thread then will other board thread topics help us? (I think i said that right, like the mario board and the link board) I don't know if I've even seen the same thing happen here in other threads.

 

[$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$]

Ok, you know what, we'll discuss Mario 1st since Yonder said it 1st and then we'll move on.

 

[Variable]

Good Idea Starting up this Thread X3

I think its a great way to know what partner plays the best with luigi, so ya great idea!

I think luigi makes a good partner with
Diddy, Mario, Toon link?, ness, kirby, maybe fox/link?

But even though if we do this thread then will other board thread topics help us? (I think i said that right, like the mario board and the link board) I don't know if I've even seen the same thing happen here in other threads.

Other boards are doing it as well. Just look in the 2v2 Doubles thread in Tactical discussion. Thats where I first saw the idea.


@: Gerald: I'm down for discussing mario.

 

[$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$]

Good Attributes - Juggle ability, good projectile, good close up attack game, kinda decent to fight off high tiers such as Snake, Diddy, and Falco.

Bad Attributes - Both can be infinite by DDD, Mario is not very gud @ recovering and some characters take advantage of Luigi's traction.

Characters to watch out for

MK, Marth, DDD, & G&W.

Stage Picking

Battlefield, Yoshi's Island, Delfino Plaza, & Brinstar.

Advance Team Techniques

Cape ****, early kill @ 40 percent.

Is the team viable?

/10

 

[Variable]

Yeahhh I don't think Luigi & Mario are viable.

 

[$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$]

I agree w/ ya, I would rate them a 5, 4, or 4 1/2.

 

[exdia_16]

i hav to start with wario even though i dont like him he is a very useful partner in dubs he can poke when needed,hes careful with his moves and most of his grabs lead to any of ur smash attacks and his bike can provide very useful until it is used against you ur up-b hitbox is 2-3 times bigger when u up-b the bike fresh and wario has good keep away game to when his damage is too high weegee can take two till that fart is charged.lol fart

 

[Variable]

I agree w/ ya, I would rate them a 5, 4, or 4 1/2.

According to your list at the top I wouldn't rate them any higher than orange.

As to why they're so low:

Luigi has the power moves to kill his opponents, this character can kill at 60's with F-smashes and shoryukens, not to mention edguard, combo, space, and keep opponents off the map very easily. His only down side is traction, range, and overall speed. What he needs a good teammate who can combo well, has a lot of speed, and can approach consistantly. Now mario isn't the fastest character, he has less landing lag then luigi and more areial speed, but he still isn't going to reliably have the speed or set-ups to combo when facing higher tier characters. His lack of range makes it hard to approach, and above all Mario is a defensive character. Which is the opposite of what luigi needs. All in all this team doesn't work. All of the negative aspects luigi has, mario has as well, so he doesn't really help him at all.

 

[Variable]

I think Luigi Pika Team would be really good, or a Luigi Diddy team. We should discuss one of those.

 

[$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$]

I'm assuming the Luigi/Mario team discussion is done rite? I gaved it a 4.

 

[AxelPurpleMissle]

We have to get a word from this from the others.

I'll edit this post later*

 

[BSP]

We should get some more input on the Mario Bros. Team. Here's what I think:

Mario and Luigi are actually very similar characters. They both use their aerial game to build damage, combo, and pressure opponents. Mario focuses on using his superior aerial movement speed and faster/less laggy aerials to weave in and out, similar to wario, but not as safe. Luigi on the other hand, deals with power: He gets inside, and hits really hard.

KO power: For Mario Bros, their KO power is not that bad actually. Mario's Fsmash is stronger than most people think (stronger than kirby's fsmash even) and will kill at roughly 100%. Mario can also fall back on his usmash and dsmash, both being fast and decently powerful. Luigi's got Fsmash, Up B, U smash, B throw, and Dsmash to get kills. Luigi's KO power is much better obviously, and if he can catch an unsuspecting opponent with an up angled fsmash, they'll be dead at about 80%. At high percents, both bros can use aerials to KO, with Luigi killing slightly earlier. KO power here isn't that bad.

Ground game: This is where problems begin to occur. Both bros ground games are only mediocre at best, being easily overpowered by characters with superior range/disjointedness, i.e. Snake, MK, Marth, possibly GaW. The Mario bros have trouble dealing with opponents with superior range.

Air game: This is where they shine. Both Mario and Luigi can rule the air with their quick, high priority aerials. They rack damage up really fast here, and can use their air games to deal with characters with superior ground games. However, the range problem is still present, as characters with significant disjoints will cause problems for the bros.

Survivability: Eh, I'd say mediocre at best. The Bros. are mid-weights, so they won't be living to too many insane percents. Their recoveries aren't that great either. Mario's is short, and somewhat predictable. Luigi's is great in terms of distance, but can also be gimped. With good DI, stock tanking is possible, but I don't think either of the bros is that great with it. If you do stock tank, let mario do it. IMO his defensive game would be a little better with his higher speed.

Verdict: I'll go with a 4. Mario and Luigi are just too similar to really support each other that well. They both have problems dealing with range, aren't the best at surviving, and both have bad MUs with Marth, MK, and GaW. I wouldn't do this team in a serious enviornment unless you and your partner have great skill and MU experience.

 

[Variable]

We should get some more input on the Mario Bros. Team. Here's what I think:

Mario and Luigi are actually very similar characters. They both use their aerial game to build damage, combo, and pressure opponents. Mario focuses on using his superior aerial movement speed and faster/less laggy aerials to weave in and out, similar to wario, but not as safe. Luigi on the other hand, deals with power: He gets inside, and hits really hard.

KO power: For Mario Bros, their KO power is not that bad actually. Mario's Fsmash is stronger than most people think (stronger than kirby's fsmash even) and will kill at roughly 100%. Mario can also fall back on his usmash and dsmash, both being fast and decently powerful. Luigi's got Fsmash, Up B, U smash, B throw, and Dsmash to get kills. Luigi's KO power is much better obviously, and if he can catch an unsuspecting opponent with an up angled fsmash, they'll be dead at about 80%. At high percents, both bros can use aerials to KO, with Luigi killing slightly earlier. KO power here isn't that bad.

Ground game: This is where problems begin to occur. Both bros ground games are only mediocre at best, being easily overpowered by characters with superior range/disjointedness, i.e. Snake, MK, Marth, possibly GaW. The Mario bros have trouble dealing with opponents with superior range.

Air game: This is where they shine. Both Mario and Luigi can rule the air with their quick, high priority aerials. They rack damage up really fast here, and can use their air games to deal with characters with superior ground games. However, the range problem is still present, as characters with significant disjoints will cause problems for the bros.

Survivability: Eh, I'd say mediocre at best. The Bros. are mid-weights, so they won't be living to too many insane percents. Their recoveries aren't that great either. Mario's is short, and somewhat predictable. Luigi's is great in terms of distance, but can also be gimped. With good DI, stock tanking is possible, but I don't think either of the bros is that great with it. If you do stock tank, let mario do it. IMO his defensive game would be a little better with his higher speed.

Verdict: I'll go with a 4. Mario and Luigi are just too similar to really support each other that well. They both have problems dealing with range, aren't the best at surviving, and both have bad MUs with Marth, MK, and GaW. I wouldn't do this team in a serious enviornment unless you and your partner have great skill and MU experience.

I agree 100% with everything you said. Minus the Kirby Fsmash thing. I don't think Mario's Fsmash is stronger than kirby's. Other than that, your post was pretty accurate.

I say 4 as well. The main problem why this team doesn't work is that they both have the same problems and are way too similar. You want a teammate to support you so that he can do what you can't. That's the whole point of a team, to work together.

Next character?

 

[BSP]

Unless training mode lies, Mario's fsmash kills Sonic from middle of FD at 98% with no DI, uncharged. Kirby's killed Sonic from the same place uncharged at 100%, no DI. Mario's is stronger, even if by only 2%.

Why not do Snake next? I could see snake and Luigi working somewhat well.

 

[Variable]

Unless training mode lies, Mario's fsmash kills Sonic from middle of FD at 98% with no DI, uncharged. Kirby's killed Sonic from the same place uncharged at 100%, no DI. Mario's is stronger, even if by only 2%.

Why not do Snake next? I could see snake and Luigi working somewhat well.

I'll have to check that out sometime... Didn't know that it was that high.


I don't care who we go over next, as long as it's a decent team.

 

[$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$]

Survivability: Eh, I'd say mediocre at best. The Bros. are mid-weights, so they won't be living to too many insane percents. Their recoveries aren't that great either. Mario's is short, and somewhat predictable. Luigi's is great in terms of distance, but can also be gimped. With good DI, stock tanking is possible, but I don't think either of the bros is that great with it. If you do stock tank, let mario do it. IMO his defensive game would be a little better with his higher speed.

Luigi can live up to like 170-175, Luigi's DI is decent. Mario's DI is terrible, which is 150ish.

U guys wanna discuss Snake next? I can chip in and discuss him w/ u guys since I use him as a secondary for 2 yrs so far.

 

[Variable]

Luigi can live up to like 170-175, Luigi's DI is decent. Mario's DI is terrible, which is 150ish.

U guys wanna discuss Snake next? I can chip in and discuss him w/ u guys since I use him as a secondary for 2 yrs so far.

I'm down for snake, although I don't know too much about him with teams.


So, snake it is.

 

[$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$]

Ok, Luigi/Snake, now.

Good Attributes

Very good killing power, good recoveries, very good DI.

Bad Attributes

Just a little small minor disadvantage, just more be concern about if Snake getting juggled by MK, Oli, G&W, Mario, Luigi so you can jump in and break the juggle.

Characters to watch out for

MK and Olimar. They can pressure Snake and juggle him, they can give him a hard time when they are close up on him.

Stage Picking

All the neutrals, mostly FD b/c Snake needs his space to handle his opponent. Lylat, Castle Siege, Halberd, and Delfino Plaza, Snake can hide his C4s, land mines, spam up smash and he can up tilt through platforms to get good kills.

Advance Team Techniques

Snake grabs opponent while Luigi's Up-B him or Snake can stick his C4 onto Luigi.

Is the team viable?

8/10

 

[Variable]

Just adding some other things onto what he said:

Good Attributes

Very good killing power, good recoveries, very good DI. Good combination of projectiles and specials.

Bad Attributes

Just a little small minor disadvantage, just more be concern about if Snake getting juggled by MK, Oli, G&W, Mario, Luigi so you can jump in and break the juggle. you have to be careful about your fireballs, and grenades. Fireballs can blow up greneades and maybe mines. (Not 100% sure)

Characters to watch out for

MK and Olimar. They can pressure Snake and juggle him, they can give him a hard time when they are close up on him. Characters with lots of range or gimping abilities. Both recoveries are easily read and predictable therefore easilly gimped.

Stage Picking

All the neutrals, mostly FD b/c Snake needs his space to handle his opponent. Lylat, Castle Siege, Halberd, and Delfino Plaza, Snake can hide his C4s, land mines, spam up smash and he can up tilt through platforms to get good kills. Any Neutral / CP's will be fine.

Advance Team Techniques

Snake grabs opponent while Luigi's Up-B him or Snake can stick his C4 onto Luigi. Luigi grabs / Jabs into Snake fsmash. (rpg)

Is the team viable?

8/10 as well. Would be higher, but they don't have the best off stage game.

 

[$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$]

not any CP, Snake sucks on Brinstar, I dunno about Japes, that depends.

 

[BSP]

OK, Snake and Luigi. These two should work fairly well with each other, since one's strong area of battle is the other's more mediocre area. Snake excels on the ground, while Luigi has a good airgame to compliment that.

KO Power: A no brainer here. This team should have no trouble getting kills. Snake's got u tilt, u air, nair, bair, dair...snake has plenty of kill moves. Luigi still has his insane Fsmash and Up B, and he can fall back on Bair, Nair, U smash, and others if the opponenet lives to high damage. Still, this team is packing the KO power.

Ground Game: Snake has this covered. With his incredible range, power, and speed, he can dominate characters on the ground. His C4 gives him great stage control, and his nades and usmash help with setting traps. He shouldn't really use his mines here, since Luigi could possibly be hit into them. Regardless, Snake can handle anyone on the ground if he's skilled. Luigi's Ggame is average, but he shouldn't have to rely on it much with snake on his side.

Air Game: This is Snake's flaw. All of his aerials are powerful and have good range, but they take a long time to complete, and have significant landing lag. Because of this, snake is very vulnerable to being juggled when sent into the air. To remedy this, snake can use his grenades to change his momentum completely, or to psuedo-counter his opponent. His airdodge isn't that bad either, and can be utilized to dodge edgeguarders. Luigi on the other hand, is at home in the air. His aerials are all fast with a good bit of power. The only problem with Luigi's air game is that it can still be outranged, though his bair will usually trade. Just watch for MK. Unfortunately, Luigi can be juggled too since he's pretty floaty, so make sure to stay under the opponent.

Survivability: Snake is such a great stock tanker. He won't die with good die until at least about 180%. Luigi can live for a bit as well, according to Lil Gerald, to about 170ish. Snake's recovery is excellent. If he recovers high, no one can really edgeguard him. Luigi's can still be gimped, but he can recover too with good use of missile and cyclone.

Verdict: 8 This team should be able to support each other fairly well. They excel in the other's weak point, and don't have too many weak points themselves. Double MK might be trouble though.

And C4 only explodes after 30 sec. or if snake detonates it.

 

[Doomsday739]

I'm quite certain fireballs wont detonate C4s.

I like the team. If either opponent gets to 80-100% they're done for soon after.

 

[AxelPurpleMissle]

after the snake discussion lets move to the rob discussion xd

 

[Variable]

I'm quite certain fireballs wont detonate C4s.

I like the team. If either opponent gets to 80-100% they're done for soon after.

I meant mines. I new that c4's won't be set off. But wasn't sure about mines. post edited.

 

[$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$]

Ok, that's a 8 for Luigi and Snake. So who should discuss next Wario or R.O.B?

 

[HyL!]

wario sounds more interesting imo but i've never teamed with a rob

 

[$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$]

Ok, we'll discuss Wario next, Snake is done.

 

[Variable]

1.) General Tips:

Well both Wario and Lugi have good air games, and average ground games. Yet they both have bad off-stage play, so staying on the stage and not getting gimped will be key.

2.) Good Attributes:

No problem killing from luigi or wario. Very good air games, good DI, no problem recovering yet could be a problem if you get knocked off the stage as luigi without any jumps to cyclone, or get knocked off without your bike.

3.) Bad Attributes:

Average ground games, wario is almost always in the air, and luigi's traction makes it hard to be very mobile on the ground. Both can be gimped without too much effort. Predictable recoveries.

4.) Characters to watch out for:

Mk obviously, Snake can probably mess you up with nades due to out lack of a ground game.

5.) Stage Picking:

Neutrals will be good. Most CP's, except for RC and JJ.

6.) Advanced techs:

Can't think of anything here.

7.) Viable: I'd say 6 maybe 7. It's definately not better than the snake team. But it's not the worse option.

 

[$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$]

Luigi and Wario's attack range is very bad, Wario can grab release by characters like Snake, ZSS, Peach, etc... Luigi and Wario are very good @ cp stages, they're very gud on platforms like Brinstar and Delfino. They ain't that bad, I'll rate this as a 7.

 

[luke_atyeo]

these seem to be very breif, probs a good idea because the comprehensive stuff always dies out after a few characters are done.

going back to mario and luigi though, they **** so hard, and can both weave in and out of each other comboing the same person if the 2 players are synched enough.

cool techs involve

marios grab release to luigis upB which is then cape ***** 0%-death

luigi up throw to cape ****, kills around 90% if I remember correctly? + other cape **** stuff

fireball wall, something I used to use when I played this team at tourneys, basically theres 3 versions, you can have luigi spamming grounded fireballs with mario jumping and lobbing his over luigis head, you can do it the other way round with luigi behind doing jumping fireballs over marios head, and then theres the 3rd version which addmittaly I havnt tried out so its theory, but you could have luigi fire a grounded fireball with mario fireing one over his head, and then luigi jumps up and fires an air version while mario fires one under him, and they alternate in that fasion.

obviously this tech works much better in 2 v 1 situations, espcially if you can get an opponent trapped on the ledge, it works really well in the right situations.

then theres the famous fludd to upB, if luigi gets fludded when he's standing right in front of mario and runs he flys across the stage really fast, very flashy and hard to pull off, but oh so worth it.


other cool setups are mario's backthrow, with luigi intercepting the opponent in the air as they are released and spiking them down into marios fsmash (hard to do because of luigis crazy spike hitbox)

or vice versa with luigi throwing, mario spiking and luigi upBing

or uthrow, for the other to spike into an usmash.


the mario luigi team imo requires heaps of practice and a partner you know really really well, but when done properly its brutal and nobody knows what the **** to do.



also back on topic luigi and wario on hanenbow is lols

 

[HyL!]

i'm not sure if anyone's said anything about this but umm, wario's d throw can set up for practically anything , shoryuken/ ufsmash you name it pretty good 2v1 combos D: that's all i know of though

 

[$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$]

Wario is done, who should be discuss next?

 

[HyL!]

i used to be partners with a fawckz, so maybe fox? worked out pretty good for me.

 

[$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$]

Ok, Fox is it.

 

[Lightning93]

The great thing about Fox is his versatility. This makes him arguably one of the best characters to use for doubles matches. I don't know what Luigi needs to get done, but Fox can definitely help him out with anything besides being a stock tank. Although it is possible for Fox to sit back and laser, I believe it's kind of counter-productive, as it doesn't do enough damage and is a risk due to friendly fire. We don't rely too heavily on lasers for damage purposes usually, mostly for sending out hitboxes that force the opponent to react in a way we would like them to.

 

[Variable]

Ahhh Foxy and Weegee. My Two mains. This discussion will be interesting, because I've never teamed with a luigi as fox because I play luigi a lot, and I don't team with foxes as luigi because I play fox. I usually play with other characters I don't use, and can't do well with.

The main reason as to why this team works is because Fox has a lot of features that luigi lacks. Fox has one of the best ground games, His speed is very good, and with a very annoying projectile he forces enemies to approach. Which helps luigi's poor apporaching game. Both characters have no problem wracking up damage or getting the kills. Overall fox is a very good teammate with almost anyone like light said. His only down side is CG's and fast fall, which won't be a problem in teams anyway. Fox is a good teammate for a lot of characters, but really complements luigi well.