Luigi Vs ZSS Match-Up

[Donyoku]

This is the start of the gathering of general opinion and discussion on Luigi's Match-up against ZSS. There will be rules to the thread of course but, not all the strict more like guidelines if you will.
Rules (Guidelines)

1. Post your opinion on the match-up (ie 50-50, 55-45, 60-40)
2. Provide a case for your reasoning (personal experience, videos, zone control etc)
3. Can post more than once in response to others opinions (no bashing)
4. Try to keep everything factual in nature but of course everyone's opinion is welcome.

Once everyone feels we have a good idea of where the match-up stands at the moment I will add it to the directory for the future and changes can/will be made accordingly.

 

[ThegreatVaporeon1]

Yeah I have no idea how to deal with ZSS. She has so much range, she's extremely fast, her stun gun tries to do what we do with fireballs but is better because it has more range and stuns (i.e. she tries to bait out shields with it, while we do the same with fireballs). She's able to mix up her recovery options which makes Luigis already mediocre edgeugard game even worse against her. I also have trouble getting back on the ground against her when im in the air. Her amazing aerial and ground game allows her to avoid fireball setups and punishes. Down b is cancelled and often beat by stun gun and her other ranged attacks and approaching her is near impossible. I just don't understand how to play against her/what to do against a good ZSS.
60-40 ZSS, easily..maybe even 65-35

EDIT: I find it to be 70-30 ZSS...it's a really annoying matchup for me

 

[Meek Moths]

im too tired to write some very structured essay on this matchup but it doesn't seems that difficult to beat zss with luigi for me. it can be tricky because of all her quick moves with almost no lag and range, for example well spaced unexpected plasma whips, but luigi is also rather quick especially in the air and it's definitely not as difficult to defeat zss as it is with some other characters, which are slower.

 

[Yonder]

ZSS is certainly iffy...but not as bad as Rosalina or Sheik. She will outspeed you movement wise, and she's difficult to juggle [moreso than Rosalina]. Stun gun I have no found super effective as a projectile against Luigi attack wise, I always clank it out with Nair or tornado. So it won't pose a threat stunning you for the most part. But it will stop your momentum a bit. When she knocks you into the air, she will follow with an up B 9/10 times. Luigi seems a bit slippery for ZSS to directly land her side B, it usually only nicks him with the cord and not the sweetspot. When she grabs and misses , very vulnerable to an up B. Rising tornados are nice to kill off the top, be weary of down Bs or dairs in the air though.

Overall rough thanks to mobility issues, but not terrible. Like Vaporeon said, 60-40 or 65-35 ZSS, I can't decide...can we agree on 62.5-32.5 ZSS?

 

[ThegreatVaporeon1]

ZSS is certainly iffy...but not as bad as Rosalina or Sheik. She will outspeed you movement wise, and she's difficult to juggle [moreso than Rosalina]. Stun gun I have no found super effective as a projectile against Luigi attack wise, I always clank it out with Nair or tornado. So it won't pose a threat stunning you for the most part. But it will stop your momentum a bit. When she knocks you into the air, she will follow with an up B 9/10 times. Luigi seems a bit slippery for ZSS to directly land her side B, it usually only nicks him with the cord and not the sweetspot. When she grabs and misses , very vulnerable to an up B. Rising tornados are nice to kill off the top, be weary of down Bs or dairs in the air though.

Overall rough thanks to mobility issues, but not terrible. Like Vaporeon said, 60-40 or 65-35 ZSS, I can't decide...can we agree on 62.5-32.5 ZSS?

Stopping movement is a huge thing, considering how fast she can follow up with a grab or any punish, really. Also, I think that a fully charged stun gun beats cyclone and stuns him. But i may be wrong here.
I find this matchup harder than rosalina and sheik though. I can actually somewhat approach those characters. But ZSS has so much stage control and so much range and speed that it's difficult to even come near a good ZSS. Just my opinion though.

 

[Donyoku]

So for this matchup does 60-40 sound good or is 65-35 better? I may check the ZSS forums to see if they have started a matchup thread against Luigi (though I doubt it). Anyways, I have heard that this matchup isnt the best for us. However, since the game is just coming out I've seen a lot of changes in what we thought was a terrible matchup to actually not just knowing the matchup at all. And once learned actually became a matchup that was slight disadvantage. Hoepefully this matchup will also follow suit.

 

[BlueBirdE]

Everything said in these posts are accurate. I went to my first tournament (Road to tcg) and lost to Dakpos zss. I can definitely say this MU is in zss's favor, to me 65-35. I admit I didn't know the MU that well it was the first ZSS I fought that knew what they were doing and Dakpo is apparently one of the best or the best zss right now. She can zone luigi out with stun gun and getting grabbed into d-throw is a nightmare for luigi with his floaty weight I got hit with alot of u-airs before touching the ground. She can do her flip to get out of danger once I get in resetting the situation ( IDK if this move is punishable or not). Zss can react with SH n-air if shes sees a fireball coming. One of the worst stages to play against her is the pokemon stage, she can maneuver all around and the stun gun and d-smash are more threatening with those platforms, try not to play on this stage against one. One of her weaknesses is her OOS options, try pressuring her with your fast aerials and bait her up-b and if you manage to get a grab capitalize as much damage as you can or even kill if you can land a d-throw up-b. This is my initial experience idk if there's anything I can do different but I definitely want to explore this MU more this is my demon for sure.

 

[Dakpo]

My heart when people spell Zss as ZZS...its even the thread title *DIES*

 

[Donyoku]

My heart when people spell Zss as ZZS...its even the thread title *DIES*

There fixed. Better?

 

[BlueBirdE]

My heart when people spell Zss as ZZS...its even the thread title *DIES*

Thanks for the beating getting owned by zzs hyped me up to get as far as I did haha[/quote]

 

[GreenFlame]

There fixed. Better?

It's also in the first post...

I haven't done this matchup yet, but how bad is the stun gun? It seems like you can shield it pretty easily then act.

 

[Donyoku]

It's also in the first post...

I haven't done this matchup yet, but how bad is the stun gun? It seems like you can shield it pretty easily then act.

Thanks fixed it as well

 

[BlueBirdE]

So i just realized we can just crouch and walk under the stun gun, the only one that can hit while crouching is the fully charged version.

 

[GreenFlame]

So i just realized we can just crouch and walk under the stun gun, the only one that can hit while crouching is the fully charged version.

I call Luigi's crouch-walk "Crab-igi". It's very useful.

I can imagine that helps this match-up a lot, but I can't really give odds because I haven't played the match-up or seen it.

 

[Donyoku]

This match-up didn't really get a lot of discussion and that may be because people maybe more comfortable with it, or its not as difficult as expected. Not necessarily sure, but either way the average for this match-up is 65-35. Does everyone agree with that ratio? Or should there be more discussion?

 

[ThegreatVaporeon1]

This match-up didn't really get a lot of discussion and that may be because people maybe more comfortable with it, or its not as difficult as expected. Not necessarily sure, but either way the average for this match-up is 65-35. Does everyone agree with that ratio? Or should there be more discussion?

I still find this matchup p difficult. Her down b is extremely annoying, especially.
65-35 is fine with me.

 

[Swoops]

I think there should be a lot more discussion, especially this early in the game and when most people here have outright claimed they don't have much ZSS experience.

I don't see blaster as that much of a problem unless proven otherwise. I believe fireball trades with blaster uncharged or not, and is about as fast if not faster. If cyclone only loses to fully charged blaster then it should still be a good option on reaction and tag ZSS in time if she decides to charge. Not to mention that crouch walking goes under it.

I haven't really experienced anything or read anything to convince me this match up is anything other than 50:50

 

[GreenFlame]

I really can't say I've got any knowledge of this match-up either, I simple haven't played it at all. It might just be in ZSS' favour, but only slightly, because she has a bit more range in her up-close attacks. So perhaps 55-45?

Once again though, I haven't got any experience with this match-up, so I can't say anything accurate about it really.

 

[Nabbitnator]

If we can duck under any of her attacks I think that would be very useful. I would suggest using up smash to anti air that flip. If you can time it right you can punish her for it. I think for combos if she is very weird to juggle as in dthrow fair doesn't seem to combo properly, I suggest doing down throw to down b. Its not a true combo at low percents but I assume its very difficult to di in time to avoid it, now around 30 percent that combo works for 6 hits. I think we probably should spend the match neutralizing her non fully charged paralyzers, and her whip with down b. I think our goal in this match is to disrupt her game and play in an odd way.

 

[Chri$tian Is @wesome]

ZSS wins this matchup for sure. Don't really know the exact ratio.

She wins because her aerials like her nair are really safe on shield, especially with patch 1.1.1. What this means is that since Luigi also has his low traction, if he blocks ZSS's aerials, he will not be able to punish her and most importantly not be able to shieldgrab her because he slid too far away.