mars16
Smash Lord
Lets discuss how to destroy shiek
And not get destroyed by shiek.
And not get destroyed by shiek.
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luigi vs shiek
- Thread starter mars16
- Start date
Kapapanerp
Smash Apprentice
The MU very similar to Melee, but a little different on both sides. The positives for us in the MU are that our slightly improved combo game works decently well vs Sheiks weight/fall speed, we aren't nearly as easy to gimp thanks to all of the recovery buffs and Sheiks throw follow-ups aren't %100 guaranteed on us as long as we're guessing the 50/50's correctly, unlike Melee we're Sheik gets free d-trow follow-ups for days.
Pro Tip: If you're up against a Melee Sheik looking for free PM money they ALWAYS go for d-throw unless they're near the ledge, so just DI down and away whenever you get grabbed to invalidate their throw game.
As far as the MU goes on Sheiks side of things, she still has all of her tools from Melee to abuse as well as some new PM stuff like her d-throw/b-throw mix up, crawling, DACUS, wall cling (which is surprisingly effective vs our recovery if they know how to use it) and an improved boost grab to make our lives hell. Her crazy good hitboxes and frame-data make getting in vs a patient Sheik a chore-'n-a-half. She can stuff a lot of our approaches f-tilt or sh f-air, camp with needles (which potentially leads to a grab) or simply play patient and punish the inevitable mis-spaced attack with a shield grab and start her flow chart punish game. The MU is by no means un-doable, just a test of patience.
Now to actually answer OP's question, the way we make total destroy on Sheik simply comes down to efficient edgeguards. Luigi has some good tools to edgeguard Sheik with. If you can manage to hit her before up-b invincibility, ledge hop b-air covers high recoveries well and is relativly safe, and drop zone f-air and d-air can cover low recoveries but those are generally high risk, high reward options. The safest way to edgeguard her is simply hold ledge and punish the disgusting amount of landing lag on her up b. Regular get-up to up-bang/missfire/u-smash/whatever you want 'cause you have a million years to land a punish lmao. She does have some mix-ups thought. She can port up to a plat (assuming they're in play) or port directly up and drop to the ledge if she's able to up b close to the ledge but both those options are coverable on reaction by ledge hop d-air and just holding ledge respectively.
Overall the MU is definitely tough but far from un-winnable. A lot of patience is required in neutral and we need to focus on getting her in a position to edgeguard whenever we land punish. Relatively simple sounding, but tricky nonetheless.
Pro Tip: If you're up against a Melee Sheik looking for free PM money they ALWAYS go for d-throw unless they're near the ledge, so just DI down and away whenever you get grabbed to invalidate their throw game.
As far as the MU goes on Sheiks side of things, she still has all of her tools from Melee to abuse as well as some new PM stuff like her d-throw/b-throw mix up, crawling, DACUS, wall cling (which is surprisingly effective vs our recovery if they know how to use it) and an improved boost grab to make our lives hell. Her crazy good hitboxes and frame-data make getting in vs a patient Sheik a chore-'n-a-half. She can stuff a lot of our approaches f-tilt or sh f-air, camp with needles (which potentially leads to a grab) or simply play patient and punish the inevitable mis-spaced attack with a shield grab and start her flow chart punish game. The MU is by no means un-doable, just a test of patience.
Now to actually answer OP's question, the way we make total destroy on Sheik simply comes down to efficient edgeguards. Luigi has some good tools to edgeguard Sheik with. If you can manage to hit her before up-b invincibility, ledge hop b-air covers high recoveries well and is relativly safe, and drop zone f-air and d-air can cover low recoveries but those are generally high risk, high reward options. The safest way to edgeguard her is simply hold ledge and punish the disgusting amount of landing lag on her up b. Regular get-up to up-bang/missfire/u-smash/whatever you want 'cause you have a million years to land a punish lmao. She does have some mix-ups thought. She can port up to a plat (assuming they're in play) or port directly up and drop to the ledge if she's able to up b close to the ledge but both those options are coverable on reaction by ledge hop d-air and just holding ledge respectively.
Overall the MU is definitely tough but far from un-winnable. A lot of patience is required in neutral and we need to focus on getting her in a position to edgeguard whenever we land punish. Relatively simple sounding, but tricky nonetheless.
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